madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tp4tissue]

What is your most revent RAW behavior. Have you played with the gamma setting to get close to the 2.2 flat line.

What huhn means is, if you change your system's color temperature to warm or something closer to 6500k, then the internal CMS will be in less conflict with the software correction later, this leads to better final outcome and prevents things like posterization which can crop up.

[madjock]

Well the corrected was pretty good and set at 2.4 last time, RAW I never looked but even if I did, what can I adjust, I get good black and white scale now I am at Limited for the GPU.

I don't really have anything else to tweak TV wise, as this does not have ISF and is pretty basic adjustment wise.

https://filebin.net/v2s9754t43upcpvj

[tp4tissue]

So monitor mode doesn't work in 444 0-255 ? does it impact the tone curve ?

[madjock]

No you just lose a lot of picture options and when in Full on GPU you lose all the Black/White same as in Game mode. I even tried changing the input to PC, but no dice.

When you do the split screen option to show the LUT working and not used, which side is the LUT ?

https://imgur.com/a/ytODbsB

[tp4tissue]

No you just lose a lot of picture options and when in Full on GPU you lose all the Black/White same as in Game mode. I even tried changing the input to PC, but no dice.

When you do the split screen option to show the LUT working and not used, which side is the LUT ?

https://imgur.com/a/ytODbsB

there's a button to toggle lut on and off.

Also if you want more color, create a "preserve saturation" or "saturation" Lut, you might like it for certain movies.

[huhn]

your gamma is to high should be the right side which looks like less CR.

[madjock]

Well I set it to 2.4 in the 3D LUT creation, I have it as high as I can on my set ? and High I mean 2.4 at a guess as it does not tell you, but obviously gets darker the higher the value from 0-4. Its at 4.

This goes back to me saying it looked washed out, but that was where we went with Limited, so not sure what do do now ?

[huhn]

your screen results in something like 3+ in the lower parts there was a ~3.8 in a measurement utterly bad results. if you fix that the image looks way less punchy but that's just correct. it was overcooked to an unseen level i have never experienced.

your measurement report is correct now you have nothing todo.
you don't loss CR anymore your screen stays at is ~4.1 k CR.

[Asmodian]

I agree with tp4tissue, testing the preserve saturation intent is a good idea if you want pop more than accuracy. I had some displays that looked better using saturation instead of perceptual or relative colorimetric. It does make it look less washed out.

You don't even need to remeasure anything, simply create a new 3DLUT based on your current profile.

[tp4tissue]

I agree with tp4tissue, testing the preserve saturation intent is a good idea if you want pop more than accuracy. I had some displays that looked better using saturation instead of perceptual or relative colorimetric. It does make it look less washed out.

You don't even need to remeasure anything, simply create a new 3DLUT based on your current profile.

I've watched alot of movies on pre-sat and sat, they're almost all OK, the only time where it really over-corrects is when you have some african-american skin types that are naturally red, the lut then pushes them a bit too red. Other than that, you'd be hard pressed to find a problem with a little increase in blue and green. The lut does the expansion quite evenly.

[tp4tissue]

@ madjock, it's like you've woken up from the Matrix, you can't go back now. you've gleaned right from wrong. In the case of your Tv's natural response SUPER WRONG.

If you're looking for more-Depth on SDR movies.

What you can do is create a Lut for ~60-80nits. This will give you significantly more Dark Tones to work with.

You'd watch it in near darkness.

@ 300 nits, your tv will have ~0.07 nit black, @ 60nit, 0.015nits

Or you can buy OLED, but burnins.

[bendak]

I am having some trouble applying settings to one of my displays. It will show up in the madVR device list, but madVR never applies any of the device settings to it. You know how whatever display is actively playing a video will turn bold in the device list? My main display does this fine, but my secondary display (LG B8) will not go bold. This means I can't use refresh rate switching, change output levels/bit depth, adjust any HDR settings, etc. I presume it is just using the madVR defaults because any changes I make to it have no effect. I've tried clearing my settings to default (when I do this, it properly adds the LG back to the device list but no settings I change have an impact).

Anyone have any ideas how to troubleshoot this? Searching this thread I found 1 other person with a similar issue (back in 2016) but there were never any responses.

I am using windows 10, latest nvidia drivers (2080ti). I also tried going back to a few different older drivers. I have tried the latest official madVR release as well as the most recent test build (113), clearing settings every time I switched.

[lazostat]

Today i saw a movie on my TV connected via HDMI with pc and on some panning scenes it was juddering.. But on pc monitor i can't see it.. Why? The resolution is the same (1080p). Maybe the bigger the screen, the more cpu uses? I have gtx 2070s and ryzen 3600.

I have unchecked all options in the trade quality for performance tab and also enabled artifact removal options. But i guess my CPU-GPU can handle these settings.

[Asmodian]

Screen size does not need more CPU, that is dependent on resolution not physical size.

Same refresh rate on both screen? Constant stutter during the pan or one judder every few seconds or less?

[70MM]

Can someone please explain why my films that are 25fps dont play at 24fps as I have the box ticked on madvr for 24 and 25fps films to all play at 24. I use video clock in JRiver.
23 and 24 films all play at 24 but the 25 films change resolution to 50.

[madjock]

Remove any 50 FPS modes from madVR ?

[lazostat]

Screen size does not need more CPU, that is dependent on resolution not physical size.

Same refresh rate on both screen? Constant stutter during the pan or one judder every few seconds or less?Refresh rate doesn't matter cause i don't have duplicate screen, but display only on TV, when i watch movies. It automatically switch to movie's fps. Only on 1,2 scenes the happenned, not everytime. They were slow panning scenes. But when i played again the movie i didn't notice the lag. Strange?

[jkauff]

Remove any 50 FPS modes from madVR ?
Some players have refresh-rate matching capabilities. Make sure that feature is turned OFF so that madVR has full control.

[70MM]

Remove any 50 FPS modes from madVR ? when I turn off 2160p50, it plays the 25fps file at 2160p60

[70MM]

Some players have refresh-rate matching capabilities. Make sure that feature is turned OFF so that madVR has full control.
I have JRiver player refresh rate turned off.

[huhn]

are you using film mode deinterlacing?

[70MM]

are you using film mode deinterlacing?

I have that all turned off as I find it never finds the right setting for deinterlacing to be on or off.

[brazen1]

Why would you possibly want to play a 25fps title at 24fps introducing judder and want to band-aid the mismatch?

[Klaus1189]

Perhaps PAL DVDs which only support 25 Hz but not 24 Hz and to get the original framerate of the movie. I never did that myself, to much hassle and if done correctly from the DVD creator there isn‘t judder or anything, the movie is just a bit shorter. The creator adjusted the audio to match the faster video. Man, a bit to much only for a guess :)

[huhn]

why would this add judder?

[brazen1]

No matter how you try to multiply 25, it is never going to equal a multiple of 24. I assume that would require pull down to make up the difference. I also assume when using pull down, judder is always introduced. If you can't view a panning scene or any scene for that matter, without the video stumbling and it isn't completely undeniably smooth as butter, I assume it's because of the judder introduced due to the mismatch in framerates.

If you asked your question to set me up for disaster, feel free to explain why rendering a 25fps at 24Hz is good idea.

[huhn]

you slow the audio down by ~4% that's how a pal dvd of 24 fps source are created by speeding audio up by ~4% to get 25p.

the frames are just displayed slower or faster in this case and reclock can undo this.

edit: nvidia user are most likely getting 3D back. your crys for help have been heard:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/37-video-processors/3053602-madvr-envy-anticipation-thread-82.html#post59690830

[brazen1]

Instead of band-aid using reclock, wouldn't it be best to enter highest resolution display modes in madVr which tells players to match refresh rates avoiding players switching and allow display to switch to matching refresh rate? OP wrote 25fps changes display to 50Hz as if that is a mismatch when it's actually a perfect multiple of 25 and would be correct. Correct without any need for reclock also.

Abandoned 3D after clinging for so many years a couple months ago. Sometimes I miss it. Most of the time I don't. Nice for those still using it though. Is it only available using Envy or is nVidia supplying drivers for everyone?

[huhn]

well the 4% audio difference are audiobile and it is a madVR feature. i simply never used it so i can't help. so there are good reasons to do this.

about 3d: read the post: ~"the next madVR HTPC build" so this should be this software. i don't know if he used the clues i showed him or did something totally different. i couldn't care less about 3D. i cared about the way to get it working again but i don't have this build.

[70MM]

The reasons one like me may want to play all 23, 24 and 25 files as 24 (which madshi has built into madvr) is to prevent proj resyncing all the time.
Foe those that dont know, the JVCs are very very slow at resyncing, some 15 to 18 secs or more. My new NX9 is faster, but probably 10secs or so.
I run a small film club and use JRiver playlists almost similar as a commercial cinema does. I have an assortment of trailers, coming attractions, short films etc etc before the main feature.
Often these files can be a different mix of 23, 24, 25 or 29. Madshi has built into madvr all files 23, 24, 25 can be played at 24 as long as you tick that box and use reclock or videoclock.
JRiver has Videoclock built into it if one wants to use it, plus madvr is also included into it if one wants to use it.

Setting the three 23,24,25 and using videoclock plays the three all at 24, no projector resync required, no black screen, no 10sec/15secs wait missing the audio and video from the start of the next new file.
The files play through seamlessly just as they do in a cinema. However 29/60 material does require a resync as thats no good at 24 :)
Its impossible to tell if the audio is speaded up or reduced a tiny amount. Maybe if it was a piece of music from a CD that one knows very very well one might know, but thats not the case with film.

As you can see this is not a feature that 99% of people would ever care about or need, but madshi obviously saw a reason for it, so good on him.
Someone like myself who is running a semi professional small theatre with mixed media wanting to play them from a playlist, without black long pauses and clipped audio from the start of a new file, its perfect...
It is a very good feature for a handfull but not for most. Projectors a terrible at resyncing, if they would sync as fast as a monitor then these features are of no use. I pray for the day that HDMI can resync fast!

[el Filou]

Just my two cents but this may concern other people too: apart from this resync issue, sometimes also on TVs the 50p input mode has lesser quality than the 24p one. I have no idea about more recent sets, but on my Panasonic plasma I can see a clear quality difference in favour of 24p, and I even have to enable motion interpolation on 50p input if I don't want to have even worse quality, which sometimes brings artifacts. I still watch a lot of movies from TV which is 25 fps and to get better quality I slow them down and use 24p.

[RXP]

3D Fix Manager works great for enabling 3D MVC playback for me. I just tried it out on my GTX 1660 card and it works perfect. I was previously using the OU method for my 4k OLED, which preserved full resolution, but it eat up GPU massively and I lost auto switching to 3D. Madshi's probably done similar work arounds in a new script.

Edit: does anyone know if there's anyway I can select a profile rule based on an MVC source being played? The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean. I'd like to switch to my MVC 3D LUT I took with the glasses in front of my meter for 3D MVC playback. I know I can add a file name rule, but not all my movies have 3D in their titles.

[mclingo]

if you are upscaling everything else to 4k you could maybe do that with a resolution profile as MADVR outputs MVC 3D at 1080p to your TV as its locked at that, everything else will be 4k.

[Aleksoid1978]

3D Fix Manager works great for enabling 3D MVC playback for me. I just tried it out on my GTX 1660 card and it works perfect. I was previously using the OU method for my 4k OLED, which preserved full resolution, but it eat up GPU massively and I lost auto switching to 3D. Madshi's probably done similar work arounds in a new script.

Edit: does anyone know if there's anyway I can select a profile rule based on an MVC source being played? The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean. I'd like to switch to my MVC 3D LUT I took with the glasses in front of my meter for 3D MVC playback. I know I can add a file name rule, but not all my movies have 3D in their titles.

What system and driver use ?

[RXP]

Thanks mclingo, that's a really good idea. I did go ahead and use a renaming tool to add 3D to all my movies as a suffix, but I have a ton on hard-drives that I know I'll forget to do. So that rule will help a lot.

I have a GTX 1660 card on latest drivers. It's a Ryzen 3 3200G. I don't think the CPU matters though. I bought the 1660 expecting it to never be 3D capable, so I'm very happy. The O/U work around worked great and actually visibily looked better for chroma on text but it was really eating the GPU. In the summer it makes the room too hot.

Really chuffed I can do a seperate 3D LUT for my glasses though. I assigned a keyboard shortcut to the regular LUT without glasses and the one with. It's a dramatic difference. Faces no longer have a green tint and gamma in low light looks way better.

[Aleksoid1978]

RXP
Question - you 3D TV is only one in system or you have MONITOR + TV dual output ? If dual - what main - monitor or TV ?
About system - i'l mean Windows version ?

I try to enable 3d frame-packing on TV(it's second) and can't, working only on 3D TV is primary ((.

[RXP]

I do have multiple monitors hooked up but whenever I sit down to watch my TV I only output to my TV.

It is a pain though. I have 3 displays. 2 monitors and the OLED. I recall in the old days of ATI Graphics cards with the SVHS outputs (am I showing my age?!) we could assign a key for certain display configurations. NVIDIA doesn't offer that option and the Win Key + P doesn't work the same with multiple displays.

[BDFan]

The available documentation doesn't have any specific 3D MVC boolean.
3D MVC boolean - 3D
Example

if (3D)

[RXP]

Thanks! I didn't see that listed in the forum documentation that MadVR links to. Can you give me the link?

[toki]

I'm not sure what happened, but I just updated windows 10 and my graphics card, Nvidia 2080ti and when I turn on MPC-HC graphics shoots to full load and I can't get any sound out of it. I am using madVR as my renderer. Everything looks to be set as it was, but something is absolutely wrong here, and I don't know what it is. I just tried playing a movie in VLC and it played back fine. I don't have it set up for madVR or movies or anything. This is really really strange. I've never had MPC do this after an update. Well, the sound was sanear being reset, but I still haven't found the video culprit yet. Even on plain vanilla settings I'm still getting stuttering, this even with no madVR running.

[toki]

The only thing that seems to be fixing this is lowering my settings under scaling. I don't understand though, how could my previous settings work, but I have to lower them after updating windows and Nvidia drivers?

Edit: Fixed it. All the updates reset my overclocking.

[shaolin95]

Guys is there a place to follow for latest beta releases or just get posted here?

[VBB]

That would be this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector.html

madshi hasn't checked in on doom9 in a very long time, but he does every once in a while at AVS.

[shaolin95]

That would be this thread:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-digital-hi-end-projectors-3-000-usd-msrp/2954506-improving-madvr-hdr-sdr-mapping-projector.html

madshi hasn't checked in on doom9 in a very long time, but he does every once in a while at AVS.

THanks for the info!

[BetA13]

quick question.....

is it normal for GPU´s to have coil whine when using MadVR?
i had an gtx670 and had coile whine when using MadVR, and 2 days ago that Card died while watching a movie... Im pretty shure that MadVR DID NOT kill it, it just gave that old Card teh last push i guess... The Card had it coming :P

Anyway.... i now got an GTX970 and its exactly the same thing^^ When using MadVR i have coil whine... the higher the RAM/GPU Clock, the higher the screetching sound... I did now mod my bios a bit and lowered the RAM just a little and the also the max TDP, now its still there but way better then before...

Has anyone else experinced this? How DID YOU fix this? Is that common?
And one more question to the advanced Techis here, is it bad for the Card? (i mean, i have at least one Card that died while "doing" it :P )... i mean i know what coil whine is and how it works, but im still wondering.... It could also be dirty energy? i forgot how its called, when the PSU isnt that good and gives a not so clean signal, wich the GPU / Hardware has to counter and then u can also have Coil whine.. is there a way to test if its my PSU?

I know, i know, those are some more techy questions, but i hope you guys have still something to say :)

Best Regards..

[Asmodian]

madVR is more likely to cause coil whine. It is a very spiky load, once the queues are full the GPU renders one frame and then idles until it needs to render the next frame. At a 70% load with 24 fps video this means the GPU is using a lot of power for 29 ms then very little power for 13 ms, and repeat forever.

But a GPU does not have to whine with madVR, my last two GPUs have not whined while running madVR but I did have a GPU that had a louder whine with madVR than it did normally.

Whining is not dangerous for the GPU.

[hannes69]

is it normal for GPU´s to have coil whine when using MadVR?
Yes.

How DID YOU fix this?
You can´t really fix it. Some cards are affected, some not. It depends on the coils, their design and quality.

is it bad for the Card?
No. It´s annoying, nothing more.

It could also be dirty energy? [...] is there a way to test if its my PSU?
What you mean is current ripple of the PSU. A PSU doesn´t produce perfect DC, it always has an AC component.
The current "quality" should be sufficient for all PC components and it should not have an impact on your GPU´s coil whine. The PSU itself can be affected of coil whine as well (independant of the described problem).
So no need to test or change your PSU.

[clsid]

madVR is more likely to cause coil whine. It is a very spiky load, once the queues are full the GPU renders one frame and then idles until it needs to render the next frame. At a 70% load with 24 fps video this means the GPU is using a lot of power for 29 ms then very little power for 13 ms, and repeat forever.Maybe madshi could add an option to adjust the queue refill strategy. That could perhaps reduce these kind of side-effects. The queue doesn't strictly need to be nearly full all the time. With a queue of size 8, refill will now happen when it drops to 7. Instead you could wait until it drops to 6 or even 4.

[huhn]

@BetA13 what do you even understand as coilwhine? it's been misunderstood with a different problem all the time.

[Klaus1189]

coilwhine ... is misunderstood with a different problem ...

What problem is that?