madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 164

Qaq

8th June 2011, 21:45

you have to change it to HAM mode while the filter is loaded, aka, while a video is actually playing.Not really. Changing by clicking in External filters is also works (for me at least).Also, I gave up on using HAM, never got good performance out of it.I found performance as good. HAM+madVR is not good combo for interlaced video (no VA support), but for progressive content it's great. For most users at least.i just uninstalled LAVSplitter and it makes no difference which i would think proves HAM mode is not working?
Check Cyberlink properties while playing: Filters - Cyberlink by click+Ctrl. This way you'll see extended properties window. If you'll see there HAM and Bitstream - you have good perfomance with hardware acceleration. HAM and SW means that something is wrong and hardware acceleration isn't working. I've no idea why. Maybe something is wrong with driver or DirectX (most likely). And you didn't set Catalyst to Best Perfomance, right?also proved that PDVD decoder is the cause of the blocky problem with my mkv file by turning that off
This proves that your mkvs are bad encoded (values of level or ref. frames are too high). Some people found that Cyberlink 10 works a bit stable here.
any other decoder i can try to set as preffered in mpc. can i use one from my TMT5?Arcsoft one won't give you hardware acceleration with madVR, the only chance here is Cyberlink HAM. You can try ffdshow decoder, but I'm not sure it will fix your problems with queues. So better try to *fix* HAM :)

pacemaker1000

8th June 2011, 22:44

Not really. Changing by clicking in External filters is also works (for me at least).I found performance as good. HAM+madVR is not good combo for interlaced video (no VA support), but for progressive content it's great. For most users at least.
Check Cyberlink properties while playing: Filters - Cyberlink by click+Ctrl. This way you'll see extended properties window. If you'll see there HAM and Bitstream - you have good perfomance with hardware acceleration. HAM and SW means that something is wrong and hardware acceleration isn't working. I've no idea why. Maybe something is wrong with driver or DirectX (most likely). And you didn't set Catalyst to Best Perfomance, right?
This proves that your mkvs are bad encoded (values of level or ref. frames are too high). Some people found that Cyberlink 10 works a bit stable here.Arcsoft one won't give you hardware acceleration with madVR, the only chance here is Cyberlink HAM. You can try ffdshow decoder, but I'm not sure it will fix your problems with queues. So better try to *fix* HAM :)

thanks i will try some more tomorrow
already tried ffdshow and found it no better
can you explain again how to run cyberlink stats to prove whether HAM is wirking?

SamuriHL

8th June 2011, 22:54

thanks i will try some more tomorrow
already tried ffdshow and found it no better
can you explain again how to run cyberlink stats to prove whether HAM is wirking?

Right click while playing a video, go to filters, hold ctrl while clicking on the Cyberlink Video Decoder. Sorry I've not been around much today. I'm really sick at the moment and have been sleeping as much as I can.

WontonNoodle

8th June 2011, 23:03

so.... how do i use Ycms now??? completely lost

someone`

8th June 2011, 23:08

@pacemaker1000 change back to 10.6 .

8th June 2011, 23:20

madVR does not accept my 3dlut file, it says "This 3dlut file does not match the output format required by madVR".
Settings that were used to create the file:
Input_Format yRGB RGB_Video 8
Output_Primaries 0.680674 0.308849 0.228869 0.681504 0.151103 0.0521233 0.310731 0.32788
Output_Transfer_Function 5
Output_Matrix_Coefficients 0
Output_Range 0 255
Output_Bit_Depth 16What´s wrong with it? It worked great before (with different input format) and should be fine, because it is what madVR expects (according to madshi): "16bit int R'G'B', display primaries, display corrected gamma"

Thunderbolt8

8th June 2011, 23:28

maybe you need to define output_format as well

yesgrey

9th June 2011, 00:13

madVR does not accept my 3dlut file, it says "This 3dlut file does not match the output format required by madVR".
Output_Range 0 255

That's PC levels, and madVR wants video levels output. Try changing it to 16 235. Then, in madVR, select your display as 0-255 and it will do the stretch for you. However, madVR is not working OK with the 3DLUT. So, until he fixes it, v0.61 should be used by who wants to use their 3DLUTs.

9th June 2011, 00:44

maybe you need to define output_format as wellYes that´s it, if I add "Output_Format HD RGB_Video 16" it works, also files are identical except the part where the config file is stored (cause all settings of Output_Format are overridden by the other options).

That's PC levels, and madVR wants video levels output. Try changing it to 16 235. Then, in madVR, select your display as 0-255 and it will do the stretch for you. However, madVR is not working OK with the 3DLUT. So, until he fixes it, v0.61 should be used by who wants to use their 3DLUTs.I noticed that, but madVR doesn´t care about that. What`s wrong with madVR and 3dlut (except it is buggy in detecting correct 3dlut files)?

Andy o

9th June 2011, 02:07

What kind of error message is? A Windows crash box? A text appearing in the madVR rendering area? Something else? What does the error message say?

It's been happening for a while, but I didn't put much thought into it cause works fine with other decoders and you were busy with more important stuff. I just mentioned it cause of the recommendation to use ffdshow-mt. I'll reproduce the problem and post logs and other info.

The gist of it: it's a message, but it's not a Windows crash message, the file mentioned is mvrsettings.dll. The video keeps playing, and the message gives me 3 options I think, close, continue and something else. Clicking on continue keeps the file playing, and the problem doesn't happen again until MPC-HC is closed and opened again.

noee

9th June 2011, 02:21

AndyO, I believe that is actually a runtime exception "catch", so yeah, it's probably something that needs attention. Does it give you an option to email madshi? I've seen that catch dialog before, but it's been a while, actually, IIRC, I haven't seen it since .49.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 03:04

Can't seem to reproduce it anymore, but it was there up till at least 0.61 I think. I didn't test again until 0.64 right now, so not sure where it got fixed. If I get it again, I'll post everything.

luke823

9th June 2011, 03:53

JaylumX

9th June 2011, 03:55

Hello Madshi. Can i please request that there is an option in Display Modes in Madvr that stops Madvr switching to ones desired resolution/refresh-rate unless the Media Player is in full screen mode

Cheers

Andy o

9th June 2011, 04:40

I'm a little confused on video levels. If I set madvr to tv levels, and then have rgb full selected in the catalyst control center, isn't the video card going to end up expanding the output from madvr?

The native RGB levels on the PC is 0-255. When you set that to "limited" on pixel format (not the video tab, that's different and does nothing with madVR), then the output is compressed to 16-235, so whenever possible you wanna stick to 0-255 "full" on pixel format.

madVR takes the native 16-235 video and expands it to 0-255, the levels of the PC, with fancy processing (which you need to avoid such things as banding). If you tell madVR to output 16-235 you're telling it not to expand, and so you will see gray blacks (16) and gray whites (235), because they already came like that on the video.

luke823

9th June 2011, 04:48

The native RGB levels on the PC is 0-255. When you set that to "limited" on pixel format (not the video tab, that's different and does nothing with madVR), then the output is compressed to 16-235, so whenever possible you wanna stick to 0-255 "full" on pixel format.

madVR takes the native 16-235 video and expands it to 0-255, the levels of the PC, with fancy processing (which you need to avoid such things as banding). If you tell madVR to output 16-235 you're telling it not to expand, and so you will see gray blacks (16) and gray whites (235), because they already came like that on the video.

That I understand, but this is what I'm having a hard time with. Below are comments from madshi:

No. With RGB Full, the data rendered by madVR is sent to the display 1:1 without any changes. Only this way madVR can guarantee highest quality. With RGB Limited, the GPU driver stretches the data behind madVR's back, which will damage image quality.

So if we're not supposed to use rgb limited, then what is the purpose of madvr having a tv levels setting?

fairchild

9th June 2011, 05:10

That I understand, but this is what I'm having a hard time with. Below are comments from madshi:

So if we're not supposed to use rgb limited, then what is the purpose of madvr having a tv levels setting?

What Andy said is somewhat correct, but not entirely.

If you have an ATI card that sends unmolested 0-255 then it depends on the capability of your display. For example, on my system with my 5830 through it's HDMI port feeding the signal to my Panasonic plasma HDTV, you can have it setup two correct ways:

Pixel Format: RGB Limited
MadVR: PC Levels

or

Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: TV Levels

The latter should provide the best quality and gives full BTB + WTW same as my Blu-ray player provides.

The problem for me and using RGB Full is that my desktop and games look a bit off and there is black crush going on.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 05:14

"the data rendered by madVR" maps 1:1 to the 0-255 levels that RGB Full gives you (native). Whatever you choose, 0 will be mapped to 0, 16 to 16, 235 to 235 and 255 to 255. Since RGB Limited pixel format messes with the levels at the latest stage, right before output to your display, then madVR can't do anything in that case.

madVR probably has the 16-235 option so you can expand to 0-255 with other filters if you wish.

luke823

9th June 2011, 05:19

What Andy said is somewhat correct, but not entirely.

If you have an ATI card that sends unmolested 0-255 then it depends on the capability of your display. For example, on my system with my 5830 through it's HDMI port feeding the signal to my Panasonic plasma HDTV, you can have it setup two correct ways:

Pixel Format: RGB Limited
MadVR: PC Levels

or

Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: TV Levels

The latter should provide the best quality and gives full BTB + WTW same as my Blu-ray player provides.

The problem for me and using RGB Full is that my desktop and games look a bit off and there is black crush going on.

In your latter example, wouldn't madvr output 16-235 only to have it expanded by the video card on rgb full? Wouldn't you want to match up rgb limited and tv levels to stay at 16-235 all the way through? (And likewise rgb full + pc levels)? Just trying to understand.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 05:21

What Andy said is somewhat correct, but not entirely.

If you have an ATI card that sends unmolested 0-255 then it depends on the capability of your display. For example, on my system with my 5830 through it's HDMI port feeding the signal to my Panasonic plasma HDTV, you can have it setup two correct ways:

Pixel Format: RGB Limited
MadVR: PC Levels

or

Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: TV Levels

The latter should provide the best quality and gives full BTB + WTW same as my Blu-ray player provides.

The problem for me and using RGB Full is that my desktop and games look a bit off and there is black crush going on.

But that's a display which is not designed for computer RGB signals, or has a bug. It's not how it should work ideally, and not only it doesn't work well when you use madVR, it doesn't work well when you do anything that requires good image quality on your PC, like viewing photographs.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 05:25

In your latter example, wouldn't madvr output 16-235 only to have it expanded by the video card on rgb full? Wouldn't you want to match up rgb limited and tv levels to stay at 16-235 all the way through? (And likewise rgb full + pc levels)? Just trying to understand.

RGB full is native output. It doesn't expand anything. RGB limited compresses everything at the last step. I think you got it backwards.

fairchild

9th June 2011, 05:27

madVR probably has the 16-235 option so you can expand to 0-255 with other filters if you wish.

Again, this varies from display to display. On my setup if I use RGB Full pixel format in CCC and then set MadVR to PC levels (0-255) I get black crush and get no BTB or WTW (regardless of what input/output values are used in the video decoder). So obviously this is not the correct way in my setup. Once I set MadVR to TV levels, voila I get full BTB and WTW and no color clipping exactly like my set top blu-ray player.

But that's a display which is not designed for computer RGB signals, or has a bug. It's not how it should work ideally, and not only it doesn't work well when you use madVR, it doesn't work well when you do anything that requires good image quality on your PC, like viewing photographs.

I don't agree. My Sony EX400 LCD behaves in the same exact way as my plasma. To get full BTB and WTW you have to do exactly as I listed. Not every display works the same so it's up to the user to see what works best with his/her setup. I also have no idea what you meant by your second statement.

Mikey2

9th June 2011, 05:28

Uhhh, how about ffdshow (ffmpeg-mt).

I've also had the most luck using this decoder; however, I have an older graphics card (NVidia 8600 GT) and a good CPU (Q6600 ...making sure to set the decoding threads to "4" in ffdshow decoder options since it is a quad-core CPU) so it benefits me to do the decoding in software (ffdshow) thus freeing the GPU for rendering. (I have tried everything from TMT, Cyberlink (HAM and regular Video Decoder) etc...it seems to just come down to having the available processing power to do the "real" work that affects picture quality in MadVR. (I know I have mentioned this elsewhere, but I felt it worthwhile to mention/ask in this context since this recent discussion has raised some doubts...)

Am I missing anything here or losing out of anything doing it this way, or are people just trying to avoid software decoding?

also...

madshi (or anyone else) - I posted a question in another thread to not muddy up this one; however, I do not think many people saw the thread: Can any of you do me a favor and take a look?

Basically I was asking -Does GPU Anti-aliasing (or any other GPU settings, specifically those in the NVidia 3D control panel, have any affect on video-quality? (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=161529) (that should link to the thread...))

:thanks: Thanks much! I LOVE these constant builds of this wonderful renderer! (And I look forward to a ring-less Lanczos algorithm - I always start with that for luma upscaling but often switch to Spline if the Ringing is too pronounced.)

Andy o

9th June 2011, 05:50

Again, this varies from display to display. On my setup if I use RGB Full pixel format in CCC and then set MadVR to PC levels (0-255) I get black crush and get no BTB or WTW (regardless of what input/output values are used in the video decoder). So obviously this is not the correct way in my setup.Your display is clearly clipping 0-15 and possibly 236-255. I.e. it is not designed to receive computer signals, or there's a bug in the ATI driver, or there is a bug on the display's firmware. The "correct" way IMO is the way to set up madVR where everything is working as it should, within reason. Since your displays don't work with computer RGB signals then what you're doing is more strictly speaking a workaround. Semantics, I know, and your recommendation still stands but only if he's having these kinds of troubles.

Once I set MadVR to TV levels, voila I get full BTB and WTW and no color clipping exactly like my set top blu-ray player.

The BTB and possibly WTW are still being clipped by your displays. Since there is no info on BTB and very little if any on WTW, it doesn't matter and you don't miss anything. The blu-ray player probably doesn't output computer RGB levels, so it works fine with the display.

I also have no idea what you meant by your second statement.

When you're using RGB full with your display (because it clips 0-15) and madVR set to 16-235, even though that's the optimal setting for most video usage, everything else will be crushed, just like you're seeing crushed blacks with your games, it will happen with everything else, including photographs and websites (and most web video as well).

If you set RGB limited and madVR to 0-255, then RGB limited will compress all the output, so you might see banding on everything, video and photographs.

fairchild

9th June 2011, 06:02

When you're using RGB full with your display (because it clips 0-15) and madVR set to 16-235, even though that's the optimal setting for most video usage, everything else will be crushed, just like you're seeing crushed blacks with your games, it will happen with everything else, including photographs and websites (and most web video as well).

If you set RGB limited and madVR to 0-255, then RGB limited will compress all the output, so you might see banding on everything, video and photographs.

Yep, so that's why when I game (which is the only thing that I really care about getting black crush, I don't browse the net or do anything else where I'd notice the black crush) I usually just switch to RGB Limited or just up my Brightness on my TV. I think the best method is switch to RGB Limited when I'm going to game.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 06:06

FWIW, there were many (from sampling the AVS users at the ATI 5000 thread there, probably most) displays that were having trouble with ATI's RGB Full output, even though they supposedly were able to receive the 0-255 signal. I and only a handful of others had it working right, and from what I remember, we had Pioneer displays. That was a long time ago though, I don't know if those users are still experiencing it, so it could be a bug in the ATI driver.

Andy o

9th June 2011, 06:09

fairchild

9th June 2011, 06:46

Wait, if you raise the brightness on the TV and gain back the black crush detail, then your display is not clipping. How did you calibrate it? Does it have an option for getting RGB 0-255 or 16-235? Mine has automatic and manual switching between both.

If you are using RGB full, and raising the brightness gains you back the black levels that you lost in the games, then you can use madVR in 0-255 in the very same way.

If I raise the brightness yes you gain back some of the black crush, but the difference is still night and day between RGB Limited and RGB Full when it comes to games. I noticed it in a dark part of a game recently (Portal 2), even with the brightness brought up I was losing shadow detail which was definitely there when I game on RGB Limited.

My TV's have no RGB options, the only option I know that has to do with the signals is the Black Level setting and I calibrated for it on Light. Changing it to Dark clips black more depending on the content.

And yes I could I suppose use 0-255 PC levels in MadVR + RGB Full in CCC but then I'd have to artificially raise the brightness from say 60 to 75, but still it clips BTB and WTW info.

Anyways, I'm perfectly happy with RGB Full + TV levels or RGB Limited + PC levels.

pouyoux

9th June 2011, 07:35

Also when PDVD decoder is used i get a very blocky picture on mkv file using mpeg4

latest powerdvd 11 (11.0.1719) solves this issue

Qaq

9th June 2011, 07:53

@pacemaker1000 change back to 10.6 .
AMD has been fixing "compressed" FullRGB to real 0-255 since 11.2 only. I'd say: if you want proper PQ from madVR - get proper FullRGB transmission.
Some guys still use old AMD drivers with broken/compressed FullRGB. They use to set their displays to Limited (TV) levels to get more or less watchable picture. I did too until 11.2.

Qaq

9th June 2011, 08:26

Impression from newer madVRs. Tried 0.62 and Precision 3.
Watched 3 720 videos and 1 FullHD video. With FullHD video everything seems fine. If video has size < actual display size I can't get rid of impression that dynamic range is HUGE. I mean it looks like it's out of the range sometimes. I even had to change Luma scaler from Spline to SoftCubic50 and decrease contrast on my TV from 82 to 79. Didn't make mach comparisons with < 0.62 because it seems like I'm not the only one with similar impressions.

e-t172

9th June 2011, 08:33

madshi, feature request: is it possible to add an option to madVR which disables the video card's 3x1D CLUT when madVR is active, and re-enables it when playback is finished? In the same way that the refresh rate changer does it with the display mode.

The reason I ask is that I use the video card's CLUT for color correction for Windows applications (with an ICC profile), but using a 3dlut is best with madVR, so it would be great to allow switching automatically between the two. Right now if I use a 3dlut the video card's CLUT will apply on top of it, which is obviously suboptimal.

Fortunately, implementing this is very easy: just use GetDeviceGammaRamp (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd316946%28v=VS.85%29.aspx) and SetDeviceGammaRamp (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/dd372194%28v=vs.85%29.aspx) to save, clear, and restore the video card's 3x1D CLUT. There are also similar (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb174390%28v=VS.85%29.aspx) functions (http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb174434%28v=VS.85%29.aspx) in IDirect3DDevice9 but I don't know if that's actually the same thing or not.

Mikey2

9th June 2011, 10:14

Yep, so that's why when I game (which is the only thing that I really care about getting black crush, I don't browse the net or do anything else where I'd notice the black crush) I usually just switch to RGB Limited or just up my Brightness on my TV. I think the best method is switch to RGB Limited when I'm going to game.

(To everyone: Please ignore if you do not want to hear about colorspaces... :eek:

Edit: I did find some use with the video I found for setting the gamma, so perhaps this post is more on-topic now. ;) )

Have you tried looking at test patterns? This whole topic is confusing to most and it only exasperated by video-cards having problems with this.

For normal PC stuff (games etc,) check out this image, it is the best one I have found. If you see no difference between 0-16 and 236-255, no matter what you do to brightness/contrast, you are missing that data. On the other hand, if you do see the difference, using this pattern is a great way to calibrate your display - make it so you can just barely makeout the "dvd" words in the 0 and 255 boxes.) I have an NVidia card (not ATI) but you should have a setting to expand the output to see the missing data.

Test pattern: http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/mikeyurkus/0-255BWDVD.png

Now Videos are a whole different ballgame-and are a bit more confusing. My best suggestion is to find a Disney/Pixar Blu-Ray and run the calibration tests...in that situation it is fine if you are missing the BTB WTW signals, but you have to make sure the driver is not expanding the colors thinking it is being sent to a 0-255 display. I know on the NVidia side about a year ago they added an option to output 16-235 and thus NOT expand the source 16-235 video to 0-255. I did some testing changing my comp to TV (16-235) levels, and the madVR setting to 16-235 handled it brilliantly (i.e. it did not perform expansion, making 16 "real" black and 235 "real" white, hence the terms "BTB" (Blacker than Black...) The key here is to make sure the video test pattern does show 16 as fully black and that it immediately shows a gradient going lighter, else once again you will be missing the data regardless of your TV brightness/contrast setting (that is called "double expansion.") On the other hand, if black looks grey then you are not expanding when you should be. (That is what those of us see with a full 0-255 display with MadVR set to 16-235.)

If it will help, let me know and I can find a video test-pattern and throw it up on a server or something.
Edit, it took forever, but I dugup the m2ts file in my Toy Story 3 Blu-Ray! http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/mikeyurkus/ColorspaceAndGamma-small.png
Not only does it help to make sure you are seeing the correct colorspace, but I just used it to set my Gamma in MadVR! (I haven't perfected it yet - the boxes should match the background...and if you look carefully in the middle, you should see some bars on the white and black side. I am not sure if it is legal for me to post the m2ts file itself, but if anyone has any questions on this (or issues, concerns, pointers) please let me know either here or on PM...Oh, and note that the screenshot does not look correct (the squares should "melt" better - that is because I could only take a screenshot in "windowed" mode. In Exclusive mode I now have pretty nicely calibrated. (Pure Power Curve 2.30)

Again I apologize to be off-topic, I hope this helped....

someone`

9th June 2011, 10:45

AMD has been fixing "compressed" FullRGB to real 0-255 since 11.2 only. I'd say: if you want proper PQ from madVR - get proper FullRGB transmission.
Some guys still use old AMD drivers with broken/compressed FullRGB. They use to set their displays to Limited (TV) levels to get more or less watchable picture. I did too until 11.2.

I think maybe the problem is this :
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=322616&page=145
Here's what I have found so far:

-If I play a 1080P video the GPU gets stuck at 300/300
-If I start Kombuster at 640x480 the GPU will go to full 3D clocks, 875/1200, but as soon as I start a 1080P video the GPU drops to 300/300
-If I play a very low resolution AVI file the GPU goes to full 3D clocks, 875/1200

As for me , I use a modded driver so I can still get the feature from the lastest driver and can decode 1080p content just fine .

leeperry

9th June 2011, 11:47

madshi, feature request: is it possible to add an option to madVR which disables the video card's 3x1D CLUT when madVR is active, and re-enables it when playback is finished? In the same way that the refresh rate changer does it with the display mode.

The reason I ask is that I use the video card's CLUT for color correction for Windows applications (with an ICC profile), but using a 3dlut is best with madVR, so it would be great to allow switching automatically between the two. Right now if I use a 3dlut the video card's CLUT will apply on top of it, which is obviously suboptimal.
why so? the graphic card's CLUT ensures that your display is D65/2.x(from 0 to 100 IRE) and the 3DLUT in mVR allows you to map the gamut(and possibly change the gamma curves if you fancy that...but it will never help to reach D65 from 0 to 100 IRE). Two different jobs....and unless you could merge the CLUT into the 3DLUT, this is as good as it's gonna get.

Besides, the CLUT is processed in 10bit(when applicable).

Qaq

9th June 2011, 11:53

I apologize to be off-topic....
You don't have to. It's not OT at all, but base strategy according to author: see technical discussion: (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1271418&postcount=4) by madshi. All the things here should be clarified/known for every madvr's fan.
And now I see sometimes that even "true videophiles" have no idea how to set up their devices for proper image presentation. Big problem here that we also have no idea how do those devices work. Are you sure HDMI input in your display provides proper RGB? I'm not at all.

e-t172

9th June 2011, 12:49

The reason I ask is that I use the video card's CLUT for color correction for Windows applications (with an ICC profile), but using a 3dlut is best with madVR, so it would be great to allow switching automatically between the two. Right now if I use a 3dlut the video card's CLUT will apply on top of it, which is obviously suboptimal.

why so? the graphic card's CLUT ensures that your display is D65/2.x(from 0 to 100 IRE) and the 3DLUT in mVR allows you to map the gamut(and possibly change the gamma curves if you fancy that...but it will never help to reach D65 from 0 to 100 IRE). Two different jobs....and unless you could merge the CLUT into the 3DLUT, this is as good as it's gonna get.

You're completely right. However, I'm worried about the fact that the video card probably doesn't dither after the CLUT, whereas madVR does dither after the 3DLUT. Shouldn't this be a concern?

(Also, just to be pedantic: AFAIK, the 3DLUT file format can in fact be used to reach D65, it's yCMS that can't)

Besides, the CLUT is processed in 10bit(when applicable).

How do you know that NVidia/ATI/Intel cards have 10-bit CLUTs for HDMI/DVI outputs? Do you have a reliable source?

TheElix

9th June 2011, 12:59

I'm sorry if this problem's been discussed before, but I get "Creating the 3dlut for the display Panasonic-TV failed" error when I try to use yCMS. http://rghost.ru/10072911/image.png I have a HDMI 1.4a Panasonic plasma HDTV.

BTW, what's the preferable pixel format for my display, YCbCr or RGB?

Mikey2

9th June 2011, 13:05

You don't have to. It's not OT at all, but base strategy according to author: see technical discussion: (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1271418&postcount=4) by madshi. All the things here should be clarified/known for every madvr's fan.
And now I see sometimes that even "true videophiles" have no idea how to set up their devices for proper image presentation. Big problem here that we also have no idea how do those devices work. Are you sure HDMI input in your display provides proper RGB? I'm not at all.

:thanks: Oh boy I hear you on how little most people know. However, I do not shun them, since even though I consider myself somewhat good at these things (I am an engineer that takes this to be more than a hobby) I am still constantly learning (especially from people on this forum/thread.) Then again, I have a friend who's parents are multi-millionaires and have one of those 100K plus indoor movie theaters - it looked and sounded like utter crap to me! After only an hour of making some necessary changes, the improvement was day and night. Now THAT bewilders and frankly annoys me (couldn't they have at least hired someone to calibrate it?! Then there was the CEO of my company that had a top-of-the-line Elite Kuro Plasma connected by composite cables!)

When I find something I could possibly help with, I simply want to give back to the community. My only problem is my posts tend to be too verbose. :)

Anyway, to make this post still relevant: I do know that my TV has options for RGB 16/235, RGB 0-255, component 4:4:4 and Component 4:2:2, but NOT because they are explicit options. (Which they are - it is a Pioneer Kuro 5010FD Plasma...I love it. ;) )

There was a wrench thrown into my setup: It was discovered that my Yamaha RX-V1800 had a nasty bug where it clipped all BTB/WTW signals! I had to run a CD-based firmware update in order to fix it! It wasn't as bad as double-expansion, but it was something that I never would have found without both running all of the aforementioned tests and trolling these message boards. So you definitely have a point - this stuff can be tricky to the best of us.

Well, I guess this post is of little value, but thank you for the kind words. I would rather see more info than less when talking about these matters - especially since Madshi's wonderful render is so much on the cutting edge. I just need a color-meter to take it to the next level...

Mark_A_W

9th June 2011, 13:20

ced007

9th June 2011, 13:24

What Andy said is somewhat correct, but not entirely.

If you have an ATI card that sends unmolested 0-255 then it depends on the capability of your display. For example, on my system with my 5830 through it's HDMI port feeding the signal to my Panasonic plasma HDTV, you can have it setup two correct ways:

Pixel Format: RGB Limited
MadVR: PC Levels

or

Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: TV Levels

The latter should provide the best quality and gives full BTB + WTW same as my Blu-ray player provides.

The problem for me and using RGB Full is that my desktop and games look a bit off and there is black crush going on.
Or, with Panasonic PLASMA, you can connect on DVI <---> HDMI and then the TV propose a settings "DVI complete" for full RGB and you can have:
Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: PC Levels

ForceX

9th June 2011, 14:27

thanks, tried that

so what decoder do people use for m2ts playback that fully supports MadVR?
Uh, Divx's H.264 decoder is the only free alternative to FFDshow (AFAIK) and almost works as fast as FFDshow w/ ffmpeg-mt decoder. DiAVC works the fastest (highest FPS) in my PC because it seems to scale and utilize all my cores extremely well, but it has a few compatibility issues (MPC-HC's subtitles do not work with madVR).

Alternatively, if you use PotPlayer you can use DXVA with madVR if you are on Vista/Win 7. This will probably work better than HAM decoding.

Am I missing anything here or losing out of anything doing it this way, or are people just trying to avoid software decoding?

I doubt you're missing anything out. Your CPU is more than fast enough to handle software decoding, and you'll get better decoding compatibility with software decoders instead of using your GF 8600. Hardware decoding would only be necessary if want to do really fancy stuffs like frame interpolation or realtime AviSynth filters.

TheElix

9th June 2011, 16:20

Delete yCMS and your 3D Lut from your madVR install directory. It will then download again, and should work.
Unfortunately, it didn't help. I deleted yCMS folder (and I didn't have a 3DLUT inside madVR installation directory) and after madVR downloaded yCMS it gave me the same error.

Hmm, I have an ATI card and FullRGB pixel format indeed crushes the image. I have no visible changes between Limited RGB, YCbCr 4:4:4 and 4:2:2. Maybe there are other merits to consider when choosing the right format?

Andy o

9th June 2011, 18:48

Or, with Panasonic PLASMA, you can connect on DVI <---> HDMI and then the TV propose a settings "DVI complete" for full RGB and you can have:
Pixel Format: RGB Full
MadVR: PC Levels

Does this work while still maintaining the ability to take 24p input and refresh at 96Hz?

Portioli

9th June 2011, 19:54

hello,
i am an ATi user & i am using CoreAVC software acceleration as long as DXVA is not supported with MadVR.
i would like you to check some of my settings if possible.

here is the coreAVC configuration panel.

http://i.imgur.com/TgkvR.jpg

should i change the output formats and output levels?

@ MAdVR
properties i have set PC Levels (0-255)
calibrationdont calibrate this display (i dont know to use yCMS yet)
BT.709
pure power curve 2.20
color & gama
enable gamma processing not checked

@ ati catalyst control
pixel format is set to 4:4:4 FullRGB

pacemaker1000

9th June 2011, 20:21

Right click while playing a video, go to filters, hold ctrl while clicking on the Cyberlink Video Decoder. Sorry I've not been around much today. I'm really sick at the moment and have been sleeping as much as I can.

thanks
sorry to hear you are ill hope you get better soon

mark0077

9th June 2011, 22:48

madshi, I found an issue today playing any video file that has a higher frame rate than my display refresh, when in fullscreen exclusive mode. (trying some 60hz video files today with my display at 50hz)

The problem is that some frames seem to appear on screen in the wrong order, then I might get a few seconds of perfect playback, then another few seconds of glitchy backwards / forwards motion, as I say it looks like some frames come in the wrong order.

I narrowed the problem down to the enabling of the "run presentation in a seperate thread" option. With it off, the problem never happens, with it on, it seems to always happen. I'm using a GTX 295 in Wind 7 64bit. I have it turned off now and am 100% happy, just thought you should know. If you think I should report it over on the nvidia forums as a bug on their end I'll do so. I'm using madVR 0.65.