madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 208

Peuj

22nd October 2011, 17:46

Thanks all for your suggestions !!

So:
@peuj,you need to be more specific if you want answer.were you using windowed or exclusive mode?try changing between them to see if it solve the problem.try with another player like MPC-HC.use ctrl+J just after starting playback & observe various queues & dropped frames to notice some pattern.also just a wild guess but are you using norton 2012.

I have the same behavior using windowed or exclusive mode.
I've tried with MPC-HC with the same results.
I didn't notice some patterns. I only see around 20 dropped frames per second.
I don't use norton 2012

Switch the upscaling algorithm to bicubic and see if you see any difference.

I've set all settings to bicubic with no difference in the dropped frames.

I get this to with 25p 50hz. some sort of bug. Try and enable the third and last glitchhack. Forgot what its called windows vista/7 is needed thou

In my case it's not only related with 25p/50hz.
I have the same problem with a 23,976 fps, a 30 fps,...
I've tried "overshoot max frame latency" but not nothing changed.

cca

22nd October 2011, 18:04

I tried messing again with madVR today, ended up with the same results as last time I tried. There is no way to achieve smooth playback in my system with madVR, irrespective of the flush settings, old/new rendering path. No setting will give me a reproducible *every time* smooth playback. Note that I watch almost exclusively 24hz videos on 60hz refresh rate which cannot be changed because the TV screen I use supports nothing else.

Still stuck with the crappy resizer of MPC-HC's EVR-CP, which is the only renderer to date that can play videos with absolute smoothness in my system, it's VSync algorithms never fail. I remember back then when that guy (Beliyaal was his name I think) was developing the VSync setting in MPC, he had to write all kinds of hacky code because from system to system there are too many differences and the graphics drivers just don't do what you'll expect them to actually do. It's the price we pay for a platform as open as today's Personal Computers.

Nevilne

22nd October 2011, 18:07

Disable any vsync correction in mpc-hc or reclock

cca

22nd October 2011, 18:34

Disable any vsync correction in mpc-hc or reclock

VSync correction in MPC does not apply when madVR is selected, and of course it's off in Reclock. I do read the thread.

Thunderbolt8

22nd October 2011, 23:22

theres seems to be a problem with the AR of this clip here http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BLY4PJS9

because I dont have any black bars with my 16:10 TV and there are supposed to be small ones at top and bottom. not sure whether this is due to madvr or something else though (am using lavsplitter and coreavc), because the problem exists as well when using VLC. but at least it has happened before so thats why maybe it might belong in here.

6233638

23rd October 2011, 06:03

There is no way to achieve smooth playback in my system with madVR, irrespective of the flush settings, old/new rendering path. No setting will give me a reproducible *every time* smooth playback. Note that I watch almost exclusively 24hz videos on 60hz refresh rate which cannot be changed because the TV screen I use supports nothing else.It is not possible to have smooth playback with 24p at 60Hz, it doesn't fit. You can only have smooth playback at a multiple of 24, or 25 if you use ReClock and don't care about PAL speed-up. (personally I find it intolerable)

Recently though, probably since installing the 285.27, and then 285.38 drivers (necessary for Rage (http://www.rage.com/)) I have been unable to get smooth, glitch-free playback.

I spent a lot of time last night, disabling all power management (CPU and GPU) using "simple" scaling algorithms without linear light scaling, and then tweaking every combination of settings and I was unable to eliminate presentation glitches.

Running in Windowed mode rather than Exclusive (new or old path) seemed to give the best results.

Oh and for anyone that plays games and is having issues with smooth playback, make sure you are not using D3DOverrider to force triple buffering, it does bad things with madVR. (sadly this was not causing my problems)

cca

23rd October 2011, 06:45

It is not possible to have smooth playback with 24p at 60Hz, it doesn't fit. You can only have smooth playback at a multiple of 24, or 25 if you use ReClock and don't care about PAL speed-up. (personally I find it intolerable)

Recently though, probably since installing the 285.27, and then 285.38 drivers (necessary for Rage (http://www.rage.com/)) I have been unable to get smooth, glitch-free playback.

I spent a lot of time last night, disabling all power management (CPU and GPU) using "simple" scaling algorithms without linear light scaling, and then tweaking every combination of settings and I was unable to eliminate presentation glitches.

Running in Windowed mode rather than Exclusive (new or old path) seemed to give the best results.

Oh and for anyone that plays games and is having issues with smooth playback, make sure you are not using D3DOverrider to force triple buffering, it does bad things with madVR. (sadly this was not causing my problems)
Obviously I am not expecting smooth as silk playback at 24hz video/60Hz refresh. What I am talking about here is plain jerkiness, where you can clearly see it stalling and then jumping to catch up. Plus, I can clearly compare it to the stock MPC-HC EVR-CP and see the difference, I'm not blind, nor I rely on numbers when it comes to video playback, because numbers say "zero glitches" but it's full of glitches.

I was struggling to get smooth video ever since the first version of Reclock was ever released by a french guy name Ogo over 5 years ago (I think was 2003?), a time where VMR7 was an exotic renderer and everyone was using Overlay Mixer. So believe me, I know what is smooth and what is not.

madshi

23rd October 2011, 10:02

If you need samples i can upload some.
Samples would help, but only if the problem is specific to certain video files. If it happens with all video files for you, then the problem is probably not caused by the video files you're using, but by something else. In that case samples wouldn't help. Basically I need to be able to reproduce the problem in order to fix it.

I notice a lot of "dropped frames" from Ctrl-J stats.
Which queues (decoder, upload, render, etc) are full which are empty?

I tried messing again with madVR today, ended up with the same results as last time I tried. There is no way to achieve smooth playback in my system with madVR, irrespective of the flush settings, old/new rendering path.
I've asked you a number of questions a couple of days ago and didn't get a reply from you yet.

theres seems to be a problem with the AR of this clip here http://www.megaupload.com/?d=BLY4PJS9

because I dont have any black bars with my 16:10 TV and there are supposed to be small ones at top and bottom. not sure whether this is due to madvr or something else though (am using lavsplitter and coreavc), because the problem exists as well when using VLC. but at least it has happened before so thats why maybe it might belong in here.
I've checked madVR, Haali Video Renderer, EVR Custom and VMR9 and they all behave identical. The MPEG2 track claims it's 4:3, but at the same time the black bars are encoded in 1920x1080. As a result the aspect ratio is shown wrong by all renderers. This is a simple case of an incorrectly encoded MPEG2 video stream.

CHEF-KOCH

23rd October 2011, 10:11

Samples would help, but only if the problem is specific to certain video files. If it happens with all video files for you, then the problem is probably not caused by the video files you're using, but by something else. In that case samples wouldn't help. Basically I need to be able to reproduce the problem in order to fix it.

Hi, its me again. I just wanted you to know that my problem was solved, i don't know how, but i updated to MPC HC r3790 with the latest fixes, and the problem was gone. Sound like crazy. But now it is working. Maybe this was only a problem with my other MPC HC build, but who knows that for sure.
Thanks. Keep up your fantastic work.

Thunderbolt8

23rd October 2011, 12:05

I've checked madVR, Haali Video Renderer, EVR Custom and VMR9 and they all behave identical. The MPEG2 track claims it's 4:3, but at the same time the black bars are encoded in 1920x1080. As a result the aspect ratio is shown wrong by all renderers. This is a simple case of an incorrectly encoded MPEG2 video stream.alright thanks.
got it workig correctly now with remuxing with 1920x1080 or 16/9 AR.

cca

23rd October 2011, 13:47

Which movie frame rate and display refresh rate are we talking about? What does the madVR OSD say about the various queues (are they all full or nearly full?) and about dropped and delayed frames? Does the problem occur in both windowed and exclusive mode? If it occurs in windowed mode, too, does turning Aero on/off make any difference? What happens if you disable Reclock, does the problem go away then?

Make sure VSync correction is disabled in Reclock. You reported that you used a profile to fix the clocks. Have you verified whether the profile actually works as intended?

Sorry, missed the post. Frame rate at 24Hz, display refresh locked at 60Hz (59.79Hz). The OSD varies depending on the settings I try each time, but dropped and delayed are never high enough to justify the bad playback I'm getting, they stay at very low single digit numbers, usually under 5.

The queues, the top 2 are always full, the 3rd one not always, varies with the settings, usually all are full though. Aero On/Off has no effect, I tested mostly the exclusive mode as the windowed is even worse. Disabling ReClock has no effect, and it's VSync is off.

The test I did with the clocks is good, both AMD's control panel and GPUz reported clocks at full 3D speeds all the time, but resulted in nothing, no effect in playback.

When the playback is bad, the renderer stats record no or very little glitches, it's something that escapes the current detection methods probably.

That's all I can think off.

whitestar999

23rd October 2011, 14:05

try an older version say 0.54

Peuj

23rd October 2011, 14:20

Which queues (decoder, upload, render, etc) are full which are empty?

Hi madshi,

Here's what I see during playback:

always same behavior for these queues:
* decoder queue 6-8/8 or 7-8/8
* upload queue 6-8/8 or 7-8/8

These queues seems more related with my problems:
no dropped frames:
* render queue 5-6/8
* present queue 3-4/4

with dropped frames:
* render queue 2-4/8
* present queue 0-2/4

For what I can see once the present queue is 0-2/4 then I have dropped frame.

Does it help ?

Note:
If it's important to understand problems maybe you could add a shortcut to record all the stats shown by "Ctrl+J" in a log file.
It will be easier to investigate and report the information I think.

By the way, making some tests I found another problem which may be related more with the player:
When I switch from exclusive mode to windowed mode the player (PotPlayer) disappeared. I can still hear the sound of the video but I can see the player.
Does a log file would help to know if it's related with madVR or the player?

Thanks

madshi

23rd October 2011, 15:29

Sorry, missed the post. Frame rate at 24Hz, display refresh locked at 60Hz (59.79Hz). The OSD varies depending on the settings I try each time, but dropped and delayed are never high enough to justify the bad playback I'm getting, they stay at very low single digit numbers, usually under 5.

The queues, the top 2 are always full, the 3rd one not always, varies with the settings, usually all are full though. Aero On/Off has no effect, I tested mostly the exclusive mode as the windowed is even worse. Disabling ReClock has no effect, and it's VSync is off.

The test I did with the clocks is good, both AMD's control panel and GPUz reported clocks at full 3D speeds all the time, but resulted in nothing, no effect in playback.

When the playback is bad, the renderer stats record no or very little glitches, it's something that escapes the current detection methods probably.
Hmmmm... Can you please check whether playback of a 59.94p video file is smooth? I'm aware of that 24fps on 60Hz playback is not as good as it could be. It's probably slightly worse than EVR/VMR. I'm planning to improve that sooner or later, but I've other priorities at the moment. madVR is currently optimized to work best with correctly matched movie framerate / display refresh rate ratios.

For what I can see once the present queue is 0-2/4 then I have dropped frame.
Is that in exclusive mode? The present queue should be better in exclusive mode. Maybe you could create a log with exclusive mode with madVR default settings. Then maybe I can say more about why you have so many frame drops.

Some things to check:
(1) Make sure your GPU clocks don't change all the time while madVR is playing.
(2) Make sure Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering etc are all turned off or set to application preference.
(3) Try using Bilinear, just to check whether the drops are gone that way.

Does a log file would help to know if it's related with madVR or the player?
No.

cca

23rd October 2011, 15:36

Hmmmm... Can you please check whether playback of a 59.94p video file is smooth? I'm aware of that 24fps on 60Hz playback is not as good as it could be. It's probably slightly worse than EVR/VMR. I'm planning to improve that sooner or later, but I've other priorities at the moment. madVR is currently optimized to work best with correctly matched movie framerate / display refresh rate ratios.

I don't have any such files, but I do have some 30fps (29.97) ones, and I had managed decent playback with those at some point.

With the 24fps it's hit and miss, one seek in the video is enough to destabilize it and start being jerky, and seeking back to the same panning scene is how I test my settings.

madshi

23rd October 2011, 16:07

I don't have any such files, but I do have some 30fps (29.97) ones, and I had managed decent playback with those at some point.

With the 24fps it's hit and miss, one seek in the video is enough to destabilize it and start being jerky, and seeking back to the same panning scene is how I test my settings.
Can you try setting your display to 72Hz or 23.976Hz * 3? Or does it not support such a refresh rate? How about 48Hz or 23.976Hz * 2?

whitestar999

23rd October 2011, 16:09

which video decoder are you using?try with madvr's internal video decoder.

fastplayer

23rd October 2011, 16:19

madshi, there's a typo in OSD. It says "limited range (says bistream)" instead of bitstream.

cca

23rd October 2011, 16:34

Can you try setting your display to 72Hz or 23.976Hz * 3? Or does it not support such a refresh rate? How about 48Hz or 23.976Hz * 2?

Unfortunately it supports nothing besides 60Hz, or I would have tried. It's an 32" LCD TV with an analogue VGA (RGB) input, I watch everything video related there. It used to have HDMI, but the inputs failed at some point and it's out of warranty for years now. I want to replace it but cannot afford it really, recession...

Thunderbolt8

23rd October 2011, 16:37

also got such a 32" TV. besides 60Hz, nothing else really works there in its native resolution :P

G_M_C

23rd October 2011, 19:14

Peuj

23rd October 2011, 19:21

Is that in exclusive mode? The present queue should be better in exclusive mode. Maybe you could create a log with exclusive mode with madVR default settings. Then maybe I can say more about why you have so many frame drops.

Some things to check:
(1) Make sure your GPU clocks don't change all the time while madVR is playing.
(2) Make sure Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering etc are all turned off or set to application preference.
(3) Try using Bilinear, just to check whether the drops are gone that way.

Yes I'm using exclusive mode.

Here are 4 logs file:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=TTWMMXTN

madVR default settings:
* madVR - log- default.txt
* madVR - log - Bilinear.txt

madVR default settings with "disable desktop composition" (my default usage):
* madVR - log - default-disdeskcomp.txt
* madVR - log - Bilinear -disdeskcomp.txt
With this last log there is at first no dropped frames, then it falls to present queue 0-2/4 and the dropped frames starts.
This behavior is not due to Bilinear it happens also with SoftCubic.
Sometimes it starts with present queue 0-2/4 and so with dropped frames. Sometimes it starts with present queue like 3-4/4 and so no dropped frames but quickly falls to present queue 0-2/4 and the dropped frames starts.

(1) I've checked with GPU-Z and the GPU clocks doesn't change.
(2) Yes Anti-Aliasing, Anisotropic Filtering etc are all turned off or set to application preference.
(3) No change with Bilinear (see logs)

Thanks

cca

23rd October 2011, 20:08

Offtopic:
People with TV's that only do 1 framerate should best consider buying a TV that has more flexibility imho. A fixed frequency TV and a HTPC dont combine well. There are will inevitably be cases where is just doesnt work right.

/offtopic: are you gonna pay for it? This is far from an ideal world. Not everyone has the same living conditions. Don't patronize people. Thanks.

6233638

23rd October 2011, 20:50

Sometimes it starts with present queue like 3-4/4 and so no dropped frames but quickly falls to present queue 0-2/4 and the dropped frames starts.Make sure you are using d3d11 presentation and have the "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" option enabled. These are required to avoid that happening with newer nVidia cards. (possibly all cards now with the latest drivers)

If you've been changing a lot of settings to try and get rid of this, you might want to reset them to the defaults first. (there is a batch file in your madVR folder to do this)

nevcairiel

23rd October 2011, 21:12

D3D11 is not required, you can get playback glitch free with some other settings as well.

Peuj

23rd October 2011, 21:47

Make sure you are using d3d11 presentation and have the "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" option enabled. These are required to avoid that happening with newer nVidia cards. (possibly all cards now with the latest drivers)

If you've been changing a lot of settings to try and get rid of this, you might want to reset them to the defaults first. (there is a batch file in your madVR folder to do this)

Yes, I've reset the settings with the bat file for my tests.
I've tried your suggestion with and without "d3d11 presentation" but doesn't changed anything.

Thanks

davidsama

23rd October 2011, 21:54

Peuj have you considered that maybe your video card has gone bad and that you might need to buy a new video card or that you might have to reformat and restore your pc to get rid of your problem(s)

whitestar999

23rd October 2011, 21:59

were you ever able to run madvr successfully on your system?if yes then try to think what did you change in your system recently i.e.driver update,antivirus upgrade etc.

jovovick

24th October 2011, 03:59

having some issue with Nvidia GT 550M with Optimus.

when used with MPC-HC v1.5.2.3456 or PotPlayer v1.5.29917, after a while video will freeze but audio continue.

When used with intergrated Intel HD 3000, playback is error free.

Any way I can troubleshoot ?

davidsama

24th October 2011, 04:28

Try using MPC-HC 1.5.3.3792 and see if that helps with anything

Peuj

24th October 2011, 09:52

Peuj have you considered that maybe your video card has gone bad and that you might need to buy a new video card or that you might have to reformat and restore your pc to get rid of your problem(s)
No of course I didn't consider this. :)
I'll wait for madshi's reply before to consider the worst (for me).

were you ever able to run madvr successfully on your system?if yes then try to think what did you change in your system recently i.e.driver update,antivirus upgrade etc.

Yes it worked before and honestly most of the times I don't see the dropped frames so it's difficult to identify an external cause.

whitestar999

24th October 2011, 10:49

try with your AV exited(preferred) or if that's not possible disabled.

Peuj

24th October 2011, 12:44

try with your AV exited(preferred) or if that's not possible disabled.

Nothing changed.

kalston

24th October 2011, 13:39

Did anyone get the chance to try the new nvidia WHQL drivers (285.62) with madvr?

I'm not at home this week so I'm curious to know if anything changed regarding the glitches.

SamuriHL

24th October 2011, 13:55

It's unlikely to change the situation. I've been using the beta. I'm going to install them tonight but I don't really expect anything to change with regard to the glitches.

kalston

24th October 2011, 14:27

It's unlikely to change the situation. I've been using the beta. I'm going to install them tonight but I don't really expect anything to change with regard to the glitches.

I'm afraid so, just a fool's hope at this point I guess :)

SamuriHL

24th October 2011, 14:49

I'm afraid so, just a fool's hope at this point I guess :)

Hope isn't a bad thing. It'd be nice if they surprised us and fixed it all. Unlikely, but, hey, it's not impossible. :)

6233638

24th October 2011, 14:58

It really is a shame to have gone from flawless playback on my old E5200/Nvidia 9400 system (Bilinear pre-exclusive mode, then Bicubic 75 Chroma, SoftCubic 70 up/Lanczos 3 down with Exclusive) to having glitches on a system that's probably at least an order of magnitude more powerful.

I don't think it's Madshi's fault at all though. I had the presentation glitches (where it dropped the present queue to 0 after a few minutes) as soon as I switched to the new system with the GTX 570, they were fixed with the "limit rendering times" option, and now they have returned to a lesser degree with the latest Nvidia drivers.

nevcairiel

24th October 2011, 15:07

The glitches never were a problem on the old exclusive mode, and everything was running perfectly fine as well. People also reported that going back to it solves their problem (in the case when glitches are actually visible).
So maybe its also doing something that is not "normal" for a "game" to do? I just don't like jumping to conclusions based on external observations on two closed components. :)

Anyhow, there are several ways to fix them, if the shortcomings of D3D11 don't bother you, its probably the easiest, or if they do, i posted my settings quite often over the last pages, and so far the feedback has been nothing but excellent.

In case anyone is still looking, here is the post with my settings again (everything not mentioned on its default mode)
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1530093#post1530093

kalston

24th October 2011, 15:50

Yeah, I'm actually using the old exclusive mode because I don't notice anything wrong with it.

Be it with dx11 or your settings I still sometimes get glitches (and noticeable ones). Dx11 is pretty annoying (well, if I was getting smooth playback and didn't have to exit fullscreen to change the settings I wouldn't mind) and your settings can more or less work if I mess around with the flush settings.

6233638

24th October 2011, 16:06

The glitches never were a problem on the old exclusive mode, and everything was running perfectly fine as well. People also reported that going back to it solves their problem (in the case when glitches are actually visible).Unfortunately what happened for me is that the old exclusive mode worked for multiples (25@50, 30@60) but not matched framerates/resolutions. (24@24) The new path worked for matched, but not multiples.

Anyhow, there are several ways to fix them, if the shortcomings of D3D11 don't bother you, its probably the easiest, or if they do, i posted my settings quite often over the last pages, and so far the feedback has been nothing but excellent.I don't know if it's something introduced with newer versions of madVR (I don't think so) or newer Nvidia drivers, but none of the old fixes work 100% for me now. I still get glitches with the D3D11 fixes now, and have tried your settings which are even worse for me. (presentation queue never goes above 0-1 and always has glitches)

It does seem that Nvidia beta drivers have traditionally been worse than WHQL certified ones for this, but right now I don't have any option but to run the beta drivers. (which have fixes for Rage)

Hopefully it won't be too long until we see another WHQL release, and hopefully that will let me have glitch-free playback again.

SamuriHL

24th October 2011, 16:14

Hopefully it won't be too long until we see another WHQL release, and hopefully that will let me have glitch-free playback again.

Like, say, this morning? :) Yea, they just released the WHQL driver this morning so you may want to try it. I'm going to install it on my machine tonight.

6233638

24th October 2011, 16:39

Like, say, this morning? :) Yea, they just released the WHQL driver this morning so you may want to try it. I'm going to install it on my machine tonight.Talk about strange timing. I actually checked the website while typing out that post to see how frequent WHQL releases were (roughly every two months) and it wasn't there.

jmelan

24th October 2011, 17:17

nevcairiel, thanks for the settings (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...93#post1530093), was able to eliminate "presentation glitches" on my gt430 (oc to 800/1600/735), using nvidia driver 280.26

i am using mpc-hc/lav splitter source/lav video with CUVID/madVR sent out to both an HK avr354 and sony 3D LCD

my only remaining problem is choppy playback with 24p source files sent to my display at 60Hz, which play problem free with EVR on mpc hc.

**with nvidia's current drivers, i am unable to both enable 3D and use 24p for 2D video (setting the 1080p23 option in madVR triggers HDMI 1.4 frame packing mode). If I disable 3D, then video playback is smooth at 24p. switching 3D mode back and forth via the nvidia control panel does not provide for a very good WAF, although that it my current method.