madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[chros]

UHD->FHD chroma conversion bug introduced in 0.90.16 (0.90.15 works fine), from OSD:
- scale 0,0,3840,2160 -> 0,0,1920,1080
- chroma -> Catull-Rom
Where it shouldn't apply any chroma conversion in this case.

[70MM]

Im using version 0.89.17 and have some questions....
Im playing at 1080p > 1080p and using the JVC RS600 projector, video card 970

1. Is there a page I can look at that has an explanation for every setting please?

2. I play a lot of clips from Youtube which could be 720, 480 sometimes worse.... What are the best settings for getting these to look as good as I can please? Tidy up macroblocking, softness etc etc.... Is this area just in upscaling?

Thanks in advance...

[Clammerz]

1. Is there a page I can look at that has an explanation for every setting please?

As has been mentioned multiple times documentation most likely won't come until or near 1.0.
The best you'll get until then is probably this:
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

Tidy up macroblocking
If you looked you've probably noticed madVR doesn't have a deblocker (yet?) so you'll either need to preprocess with ffdshow, or make do.

softness etc etc.... Is this area just in upscaling?
Not sure what this really means, but you must have seen the "image enhancements" section by now.

[Warner306]

Im using version 0.89.17 and have some questions....
Im playing at 1080p > 1080p and using the JVC RS600 projector, video card 970

1. Is there a page I can look at that has an explanation for every setting please?

2. I play a lot of clips from Youtube which could be 720, 480 sometimes worse.... What are the best settings for getting these to look as good as I can please? Tidy up macroblocking, softness etc etc.... Is this area just in upscaling?

Thanks in advance...

Try the link in my signature. It is updated all the time with my own research. Most settings are covered.

[leeperry]

problem occurs only in windowed mode, all is well in FSE and that's with NNEDI3 luma doubling only as enabling it for chroma as well fixes the problem: http://thumbnails114.imagebam.com/47406/76165b474053216.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/76165b474053216)

sample video and settings.bin available at https://mega.nz/#!D0IinBxJ!nv5b36Oqk4nnmxMD7A5zi9W_PFlJK6YHjeBRh2bMCKc

I also got 720p videos that give the exact same problem but only in FSE this time.

[ryrynz]

Have had a number of issues changing queues in madVR over the years, this one kicked me out of the desktop and back into the sign in screen under Windows 10 after some graphics glitches
I changed the full screen and windowed mode frames presented in advance from 6 to 16 and the CPu and GPU buffers from 8/12 to 20/16 and then attempted to continue playing the video.

I had to reboot because the graphics driver wasn't stable after logging back in.

Seems the queues are simply too much for the old HD3000 to handle, those settings force Windows to do as I described every time I try to play something.
Setting them to 8/8/16/12 works fine.

[mzso]

I was testing profiles. I made it very simple. The first with sharpening the second without.
But I ran into issues with the hotkeys. First madvr didn't want to accept my shortcut falsely claiming it's invalid, because it used a character with a diacritical mark.
On second try I added alt+q and alt+w. Which were accepted but didn't work at all.

[madshi]

Implementing this sooner than later may give a lot of return on investment. Certainly now that 4K is becoming more common. Dealing with OOM related 'bug' reports is a huge waste of your time.

Maybe the GUI could also show an indication of the (worst case) memory requirements for a given queue size. That should help users to avoid too large queues. Assume the largest of the available display devices. Assume smooth motion is on, and whatever else may increase memory usage. Show estimate for common input sizes.

GPU queue size: 8 (requires up to xxx MB for 1080p and xxxx MB for 4K)
Makes sense.

Is it possible to include the parameters of FineSharp (sstr, cstr, lstr, pstr, ldmp, xstr and xrep) to madVR ?
crispen edges is not identical to FineSharp. Some of those options make no sense for crispen edges. Some may, but I don't really see the sense of exposing all that. Which of those do you consider important and why?

Hi, upscaling enhancements don't seem to work for me when supersampling 1080p > 1080p with the latest two versions - they don't have any effect.
Works for me. Are you sure that supersampling is really active? Can you make a screenshot of the OSD?

I have made an album with some comparisons of chroma and doubling algos. By now I have uploaded just 4 images and they are based on a DVD release of the movie Howl's Moving Castle.
On a quick check NNEDI3 still has some lines a bit more focused/sharp. But super-xbr may have slightly less aliasing in some situations.

I cannot deal with playing 3D bluray content. I have a i7 4700mq with Intel HD4600 and dgpu Nvidia GTX765M with optimus. When playing 3d I cannot use the nvidia GPU due to the HDMI port is attached to the HD4600 card.

I am using MPC-HC with LAV filters and MADVR, always the latest nightly builds of them. The problem is that even setting madvr to the lowest settings (nearest neighbor in chroma and the rest deactivated), the player (MPC-HC) unexpectly stop and back me to desktop after 30 sec of playing without more information. I have used DVXA copy-back, native and Intel Quicksync without a successful result. MADVR with and without FSE and with D3D11 and D3D9, all possible combinations.
Sounds like a driver issue, but it's hard to say. Have you tried different GPU drivers for both Intel and NVidia GPUs? You could also try different media players, just to be safe. In any case, I think this is unlikely to madVR's fault, although I can't really say for sure.

That option doesn't seem to change the behaviour. If I untick 'automatically detect black bars', upscaling enhancements work fine with supersampling, clear difference to picture and render times shoot up to around 35ms. As soon as I tick 'automatically detect black bars' render times drop dramatically and the upscaling enhancements 'crispen edges' and 'superres' no longer have an effect, even though the image is still being doubled and then downscaled by setting '2x supersampling' in image doubling.
Seems to work fine on my PC, with supersampling and "automatically detect black bars" enabled, using a cinemascope HD video for testing.

I think AB is too strong in the new sxbr options
Meaning?

There's been a lack of love for Spline, so I thought I'd add some. At least for much of the stuff I watch, it works well, and doesn't use a lot of power.
Quality per performance isn't bad, although personally I prefer Lanczos over Spline in that performance area. Matter of taste, I guess.

i did some test for super xbr anti bloat

FHD -> UHD
source: http://abload.de/img/00004.m2ts_snapshot_0wju9u.png
spline3 AR: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrvLI.png
super xbr 100 anti bloat: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrXIA.png
super xbr 100: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/Trl1D.png

HD -> QHD
source: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrZLg.png
spline3 AR: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrJlx.png
super xbr 100 anti bloat: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrSpB.png
super xbr 100: https://www.ezphotoshare.com/images/2016/03/26/TrPdp.png

super xbr anti bloat is less sharp than spline 3 AR. which makes it really soft for upscaling.
the effect of anti bloat is looks useful. it has an very nice anti ringing effect. is it possible to use it with super xbr 125 or even 150 in the future?
I think there's a small misunderstand: The option called "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 100" is *not* based on super-xbr 100. The anti-bloating filter was mainly written for sharpening, so it took some inventive tricks to make it work for super-xbr. Think of "super-xbr, anti-bloating xxx" as some special super-xbr configuration with different kinds of anti-bloating strength. Which means "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 100" has the highest anti-bloating strength, which makes it the softest of the anti-bloating super-xbr algorithms. If you find this one too soft, try the other anti-bloating variants. "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 25" should be the sharpest of the anti-bloating super-xbr algorithms.

UHD->FHD chroma conversion bug introduced in 0.90.16 (0.90.15 works fine), from OSD:
- scale 0,0,3840,2160 -> 0,0,1920,1080
- chroma -> Catull-Rom
Where it shouldn't apply any chroma conversion in this case.
Doesn't seem to happen on my PC. Screenshot of the OSD, please?

problem occurs only in windowed mode, all is well in FSE and that's with NNEDI3 luma doubling only as enabling it for chroma as well fixes the problem
Is this a new problem with v0.90.16? Or does this also occur with v0.90.15?

I was testing profiles. I made it very simple. The first with sharpening the second without.
But I ran into issues with the hotkeys. First madvr didn't want to accept my shortcut falsely claiming it's invalid, because it used a character with a diacritical mark.
On second try I added alt+q and alt+w. Which were accepted but didn't work at all.
Maybe these are interpreted as menu commands? I tried with "Ctrl+Alt+1" as a test and that worked just fine for me.

[mogli]

[...]
The option called "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 100" is *not* based on super-xbr 100.
[...]
On what is it based then?
Can they be compared like 'super-xbr anti-bloating 100' meaning 'super-xbr 150 minus the softening anti-bloating 100 does' or something?

[chros]

Doesn't seem to happen on my PC. Screenshot of the OSD, please?
Strange. Thanks.
http://thumbnails114.imagebam.com/47418/b900f4474174599.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b900f4474174599)

[Px]

Thanks. I hope to have this fixed in the next build. If not, please let me know.
Looks like fixed, thanks :)

[iSeries]

Works for me. Are you sure that supersampling is really active? Can you make a screenshot of the OSD?.

Sure. Using a 1.85.1 movie as an example (Ant Man), I have 'always - 2x supersampling' set in image doubling. First screenshot has 'automatically detect hardcoded black bars' selected, along with 'zoom small black bars away'. Doubling is being performed but no upscaling refinements have any effect (notice the render times). If I untick 'automatically detect hardcoded black bars' render times more than double and upscaling enhancements are clearly working (second screenshot).

http://imgur.com/Hli7UJI

http://imgur.com/MfuNVg5

On a 2.35.1 movie, with 'automatically detect hardcoded black bars' selected, along with zoom big black bars away completely so the picture fills the screen, upscaling refinements work fine along with doubling.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Which anti-bloating strength do you prefer? And other than that AdaptiveSharpen sharpens more than Crispen Edges, do you see a quality difference between the two?Sorry, I haven't played around with it to that extent yet. The video I was watching didn't seem very good for testing since the difference was pretty subtle. Today I played around with another video (640x360) and found that Crispen Edges allowed AdaptiveSharpen+AB to be a lot more effective - neither filter was as good on its own. But that's probably going to be overkill for other videos. I've just stuck with strengths of 1.00 and 100% for AB so far.

As for the difference between Crispen Edges and AdaptiveSharpen+AB, I think Crispen Edges has the drawback of emphasizing compression artifacts, whereas AdaptiveSharpen makes things look like a watercolor painting at higher strengths (AB does a lot to reduce this effect). I'm pretty sensitive to compression artifacts, at least on still images, so I tend to prefer AS at fairly low strength, but I'm not sure I could find a combination of settings that works well for all (or even a large subset of) the videos I watch. It's fun to play around with for low quality videos though!

[nevcairiel]

Strange. Thanks.
http://thumbnails114.imagebam.com/47418/b900f4474174599.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/b900f4474174599)

When you use Linear Light downscaling, this usually happens.
There is a new "trade quality of performance" option, called "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance", maybe try that?

[Georgel]

and why don't you post a screen than?


Sorry, I don't seem to be able to post images.

Is it ok if I post link to dropbox files?

[Warner306]

I have a couple of examples of where anti-bloating removes detail that would be considered valid sharpening.

SD -> FHD
super-xbr100 + SuperRes (3)

Edit: Updated links to Google Drive.

In the first example, search for the headline "Rick Nielsen: no cheap collector" in the middle of the image. SuperRes does a good job of making the original letters more clear and easy to read. While anti-bloating returns these letters to a blurred smear.

The rest of the lettering, especially on the lower part of the guitar shows the same improvement and then degradation when anti-bloating is enabled.

Guitar (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LAr9InPMjta3NmYTdrSXNaUEE)
Guitar SuperRes (3) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2LAr9InPMjtRkZYLVZVNEM0TU0/view?usp=sharing)
Guitar SuperRes (3) + Anti-Bloating 100% (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2LAr9InPMjtVGxNa3IzS2tNcUU)

In the second example, look at the leather patches on Kata Mara's arm and the black guy.

Also, the objects in the shadows (top-right) become obscured when anti-bloating is enabled. SuperRes again slightly enhances the low-res original and anti-bloating effectively cancels this out.

Fantastic Four (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2LAr9InPMjtQURBVmF6R0ZJSGM/view?usp=sharing)
Fantastic Four SuperRes (3) (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2LAr9InPMjtMXhaeGk5WXNSaU0/view?usp=sharing)
Fantastic Four SuperRes (3) + Anti-Bloating 100% (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2LAr9InPMjtMm9YZVpqNnFTaVk/view?usp=sharing)

So far, only my original test where SuperRes (3) was combined with crispen edges (1.0) did anti-bloating prove to be an effective countermeasure for SuperRes. I am thankful to see that SuperRes, at the right strength, does not oversharpen the image. This has completely changed my settings preferences.

[chros]

When you use Linear Light downscaling, this usually happens.
There is a new "trade quality of performance" option, called "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance", maybe try that?
Hmm, thanks.
- 'scale in linear light' under image downscaling is unchecked in the profile (checking/unchecking doesn't make a difference)
- if I check 'scale chrome separately, if ...' then indeed chroma conversion vanishes (so maybe this new option brought this bug, if it's a bug)

My Zoom control settings for 4k (maybe it also affects something):
- 'disable scaling if image size changes by only' checked: 50 lines or less
- 'move subtitles' checked: to bottom of the screen/window
- 'auto detect hard coded black bars' UNchecked

[har3inger]

Superres with antibloat at or above 100% completely eliminates the aliasing/blobbiness/chunkiness SR introduces to low resolution content. Unfortunately, it also makes it appear that superres is doing almost nothing except introduce artifacts on hardcoded subs and similar scene details.

For low-res bad quality content, SXBR AB25 looks quite similiar to nnedi64. There's a bit less sharpness, but similar reduction in source artifacts. Considering the cost, that's pretty damn good. Any higher AB and SXBR starts looking too soft. Using AB on SXBR followed by SR with AB checked can tend to produce odd looking images.

I'm not able to take or upload screenshots for a while unfortunately, so I can only leave these impressions here. It'd be really great if someone could try to reproduce and see if they notice similar issues.

What quality tradeoffs are present when we check "scale chroma separately"?

[nevcairiel]

- if I check 'scale chrome separately, if ...' then indeed chroma conversion vanishes (so maybe this new option brought this bug, if it's a bug)


Well sounds to me like this option is designed to allow just what you want, scale chroma straight to the target (which in this case is no scaling at all). But madshi can say if it works as intended.

[Warner306]

Superres with antibloat at or above 100% completely eliminates the aliasing/blobbiness/chunkiness SR introduces to low resolution content. Unfortunately, it also makes it appear that superres is doing almost nothing except introduce artifacts on hardcoded subs and similar scene details.

For low-res bad quality content, SXBR AB25 looks quite similiar to nnedi64. There's a bit less sharpness, but similar reduction in source artifacts. Considering the cost, that's pretty damn good. Any higher AB and SXBR starts looking too soft. Using AB on SXBR followed by SR with AB checked can tend to produce odd looking images.

I'm not able to take or upload screenshots for a while unfortunately, so I can only leave these impressions here. It'd be really great if someone could try to reproduce and see if they notice similar issues.

What quality tradeoffs are present when we check "scale chroma separately"?

Sure, I can agree about the reduction in aliasing. But it is doing this by blurring the aliasing a bit. This also impacts other parts of the image, though, and the overall effect can be detrimental when the image is softened when it is not oversharpened.

[fedpul]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fedpul View Post
I have made an album with some comparisons of chroma and doubling algos. By now I have uploaded just 4 images and they are based on a DVD release of the movie Howl's Moving Castle.

On a quick check NNEDI3 still has some lines a bit more focused/sharp. But super-xbr may have slightly less aliasing in some situations.

Hi madshi, that is true for Luma doubling, if you look closely to the hair it is quite easy to see the difference. But what do you think about the difference between these algorithms in Chroma Upscaling? Also I would like to know how I can go go to an exact frame in MPC-BE to make more comparisons. Thanks in advance.

[Warner306]

@madshi,

Would it be possible to start a thread where test images are available for download? By that, I mean the unaltered, original image. I am new to this but have discovered the following:

Not every image is a good test image;
Good test images are difficult to find on the Web;
Most images only show differences in parts of the image, not the entire image;
Some images show no difference at all;
Images must be the correction resolution and size to allow for adequate resizing.

If test images are indeed the best way to assist this enterprise, good test images should be available to everyone interested in testing.

Image hosting recommendations would also be beneficial to those looking for a place to host their images.

[huhn]

Sorry, I don't seem to be able to post images.

Is it ok if I post link to dropbox files?

do as you please. there are tons of image hosts out there not sure what's the problem.

[mzso]

Maybe these are interpreted as menu commands? I tried with "Ctrl+Alt+1" as a test and that worked just fine for me.

You mean for getting the focus to the menubar menubar in some software, or such? Highly unlikely, the potplayer ui doesn't have a menubar and doesn't use alt. Also madvr hotkeys override the player's hotkeys if I remember correctly.
The diacritic thing just seem like a madVR flaw. It just doesn't allow me to use them. I prevents me from using nine keys, so it's pretty significant.


I don't see how "Ctrl+Alt+1" is relevant. That's neither "alt+[something]" nor does it include a character with a diacritic mark (like these: íöüóőúáűé)
I tried Ctrl+Alt+Q/W, which works here also. But not with only Alt as a modifier.

[huhn]

I think there's a small misunderstand: The option called "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 100" is *not* based on super-xbr 100. The anti-bloating filter was mainly written for sharpening, so it took some inventive tricks to make it work for super-xbr. Think of "super-xbr, anti-bloating xxx" as some special super-xbr configuration with different kinds of anti-bloating strength. Which means "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 100" has the highest anti-bloating strength, which makes it the softest of the anti-bloating super-xbr algorithms. If you find this one too soft, try the other anti-bloating variants. "super-xbr, anti-bloating: 25" should be the sharpest of the anti-bloating super-xbr algorithms.

i tried anti bloat 25-75 now and i can't find something that is useful for pure up scaling.

it kind of creates on effect of double lining where anti bloat 100 was so unsharp i didn't really notice this.

FHD->UHD with crisp edges 1.5 upscale refinment is already clearly highlighting this effect. and that for all anti bloat super xbr settings.

even super xbr anti bloat 25 isn't as sharp as super xbr 100 and every higher anti bloat setting isn't as sharp as spline 3.

so here is the main issue upscale refinement is needed with super xbr anti bloat which has issues with crisp edges.

[huhn]

I couldn't see the difference either.

it got kind of fixed with 364.72. the spikes are down to plus ~8 ms.

at least i can use may 3D LUT again.

[chros]

it got kind of fixed with 364.72. the spikes are down to plus ~8 ms.

at least i can use may 3D LUT again.
Glad to hear it. I tried out the 36x line drivers with my old config, but I went back to the 355.98: it's faster and steadier.

[Raimu]

Using the latest 0.90.17 madVR I've encountered a glitch where if I keep resizing the MPC window so that the scaling changes just right, the brightness of the video becomes washed out. However, unchecking linear and sigmoidal light options in the down/upscaling menu removes the glitch.

Normal - http://i.imgur.com/4UpFebN.jpg
Glitching - http://i.imgur.com/UF7I9Cx.jpg

I'm watching an anamorphic DVD transfer. I couldn't quickly reproduce this glitch on 4:3 or similar content.

I tried on/offing the newest options, including "scale chroma separately, if..." but only turning LL/SL off makes this glitch go away.

[krille]

Don't know if this has been reported, but since version 0.90.16 there is a problem with dxva deinterlacing for me. The picture is extremely pale when deinterlacing is active.
I'm using Nvidia 960 with latest driver.

[XMonarchY]

I can't, most of my vids are shot in 1080p/60fps. If I even attempt x2 Supersamling I get horrendous frame drops, and I have a Palit 980ti Super Jetstream using just a 1080p monitor.

Same when I try to use Reconstruction for Chrome Upscaling. It takes my GPU usage right up to 100% and drops loads of frames to the point it bogs the PC down.

Must be different settings, I do not use Reconstruction. However, I do use NNEDI3 32n, which is supposedly more demanding. I have not tried 60p videos - only 23/24p ones for now. Thing is, 23/24p films play just fine even on my 120Hz monitor with Image Doubling set to Always.

Questions:
- Why does 1080p Image Doubling works fine without drops, delays, and glitches in Exclusive FullScreen mode, but not in Windowed mode? Does it have something to do with D3D11 running only in FullScreen mode..?
- Why do people say that Image Doubling (2x - always) makes the image look "different", not necessarily "better"? Its OBVIOUSLY better! All the details are finer and there is less ringing.

I also have another slightly off-topic inquiry:
- Only 4:4:4 mode can fully benefit from Chroma and Luma upscaling, doubling, and several other madVR image-improving settings, unlike 4:2:2 mode which cannot fully benefit from the same settings, although it does benefit from those settings partially. I have several displays - one running in 4:4:4 mode and another in 4:2:2 mode (let's not get into why). As far as I understand, SubSampling is highly related to how Chroma and Luma are used and displayed, which makes me wonder - would/does 4:2:2 mode benefit more from Chroma-related image improvement settings or Luma-related image improvement settings? I do see an obvious improvement from using Luma Image Doubling (set to Always) on my TV in 4:2:2 mode.

[huhn]

Questions:
- Why does 1080p Image Doubling works fine without drops, delays, and glitches in Exclusive FullScreen mode, but not in Windowed mode? Does it have something to do with D3D11 running only in FullScreen mode..?
your GPU can't handle the extra downscaling?
- Why do people say that Image Doubling (2x - always) makes the image look "different", not necessarily "better"? Its OBVIOUSLY better! All the details are finer and there is less ringing.

i only know one person that said this and that was me.

if you see a clear improvement why even argue?

I also have another slightly off-topic inquiry:
- Only 4:4:4 mode can fully benefit from Chroma and Luma upscaling, doubling, and several other madVR image-improving settings, unlike 4:2:2 mode which cannot fully benefit from the same settings, although it does benefit from those settings partially. I have several displays - one running in 4:4:4 mode and another in 4:2:2 mode (let's not get into why). As far as I understand, SubSampling is highly related to how Chroma and Luma are used and displayed, which makes me wonder - would/does 4:2:2 mode benefit more from Chroma-related image improvement settings or Luma-related image improvement settings? I do see an obvious improvement from using Luma Image Doubling (set to Always) on my TV in 4:2:2 mode.

chroma subsampling has little to no effect on luma.
because chroma is not luma.

[AngelGraves13]

It wasn't ever in the running (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/166640) AFAIC.

Set sharpness to whatever you want, all are good choices depending on how bright you like it. Enabling anti-ringing is a very good idea.
Personally I prefer values of around 100-150, 25 is nice if you like something close to Jinc but without the ringing issues and better performance too
I might end up settling on 125 now.

I'd would like to know for sure what would be closest to actual 4:4:4 content, maybe someone could test that, I suspect 125 or 150 would probably be the closest.

Based on the comparison, I'd say Super-XBR 100 has less errors when scaling chroma. Reconstruction soft has some weirdness going on with the pink color inside the bubble, like it scaled it wrong. Suber-XBR does have darker lines and edges, but that's actually good for chroma and helps separate the colors. Also has the benefit of making grain look sharper.

That's just what I observed from the image though.

[markanini]

I'm have some testing ahead of me but I hope for the new SR section AB an AR settings will help with ringing artifacts when used in combination with Enhance Details. It's disappointing to hear that they're reported as less useful for SR that other types of processing though.

[Warner306]

I'm have some testing ahead of me but I hope for the new SR section AB an AR settings will help with ringing artifacts when used in combination with Enhance Details. It's disappointing to hear that they're less useful for SR that other types of processing though.


Are you sure enhance details is the problem? I'm not sure it touches the outside of objects, which is where the ringing would occur.

See this comparison of SuperRes with anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1762283#post1762283.

[markanini]

For hires photos SSIM downscaling w/ AR+AB100% seemed like the best compromise. I couldn't see any obvious differences between relaxed and strict AR. I vote for whatever uses the least GPU cycles.

[markanini]

Are you sure enhance details is the problem? I'm not sure it touches the outside of objects, which is where the ringing would occur.

See this comparison of SuperRes with anti-bloating: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1762283#post1762283.

No I think image doubling algorithms are more likely the cause of the ringing. ATM I'm getting around the ringing issue by using the softest kernel, NEDI.

[markanini]

I think I can now retire NEDI+SR and replace it with "super-xbr, anti-bloating:75". It's almost as good as NEDI+SR at minimizing blocking and gibbs artefacts and will use much less GPU. Note: I always have enhance detail: 1.0 pre-resize.

[leeperry]

Meaning?
Antibloat appears too strong in the new sxbr doubling options.

Is this a new problem with v0.90.16? Or does this also occur with v0.90.15?
Nope, all is well with .15 whatever SD going dark in windowed mode or 720p going dark in FSE, it's actually downscaling antibloat that triggers it in combination with NNEDI3 luma-only doubling as I just found out.

[Mistar Muffin]

I suppose you could setup a profile which has 3D disabled and one which has it enabled in the madVR settings, and assign a keyboard shortcut to them.


Thanks, that's what I'll do.

I'm trying to create a profile group under my display device and after creating the group I cannot enter text in certain text fields without focus jumping to a section in the tree above my profile group. The fields I have trouble with are the names for the profile/profile group and my profile selection rules. To elaborate, my profile group only has "display modes" in it. If I try to enter text in the fields I mentioned, the selection jumps above the profile group to "color & gamma". If I include calibration, color & gamma, and display modes in the PG, then the focus jumps up to "properties". I did the usual things like rebooting and upgrading to 0.90.17 to make sure this wasn't a bug that had been fixed. It doesn't happen when I make profile groups under scaling algorithms.

Thanks.

[70MM]

If you looked you've probably noticed madVR doesn't have a deblocker (yet?) so you'll either need to preprocess with ffdshow, or make do.


.


How do I use ffdshow to improve clips from Youtube, I cant find this setting anywhere in madvr?

[ryrynz]

How do I use ffdshow to improve clips from Youtube, I cant find this setting anywhere in madvr?

MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.

[70MM]

I just covered this a few posts back at the top of the page. At this point you can use Avisynth and ffdshow to achieve what you want, so either read about about how to set that up or sit back and wait.

Where do I make these settings please for improving youtube?
Avisynth and ffdshow

[70MM]

MadVR doesn't interface to ffdshow at all, you have to do this in your media player which isn't relevant to this thread. I suggest googling on how to set up ffdshow for post processing.

Thank you, hopefully I find it in JRiver which Im using...

[70MM]

Can someone help explain this for me please as I still don't understand it from Warners help section.

I want to ask about the section “add extra frames at the beginning” (cant remember the correct term)

They are defaulted to 8.
Ive mentioned Im getting an occasional jump from time to time, someone said to change from Need13 which I did but I still got the skip/jump from time to time….
Now using super xbr 100
I looked at the "add extra frames at the beginning section" and went next up from 8 but still got the occasional skipped frame..
I dropped it to 6 and it got better..
I moved it down to 4 and it was perfect...
What does this actually do and going low down to 4 is it a problem when the default is 8?
Im only using 1080p > 1080p and the card is the 970, proj RS600

Sorry Im still a bit dumb on all this stuff

[Asmodian]

I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice. ;)
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size". :p

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.

[70MM]

I think you are adjusting the buffer for rendered frames, more usually provides more stability but there are many users who have better performance using smaller buffers.

With only 4 buffers you only have 4 frames rendered in advance so if your system hiccups and briefly stops rendering there isn't much time before it runs out of pre-rendered frames and you get a dropped frame. If you do not get dropped frames there is nothing wrong with small buffers, I also notice more reliable playback with smaller buffers. I think it is something with the newer Nvidia drivers and/or Windows 10 but don't really know.

If you let us know the actual term we will be more accurate with advice. ;)
I am guessing "add extra frames at the beginning" means "rendering" -> "general settings" -> "GPU queue size". :p

One thing to be aware of when using small queue sizes is that the 'trade quality for performance' option, 'don't rerender frames when fade in/out is detected' should be enabled.

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

[Asmodian]

Oh! Of course, you mean the rendering -> windowed mode -> "how many video frames shall be presented in advance:"! I should have guessed that. :o

That is similar to what I described before, a buffer for frames after madVR has rendered them but this one is in Direct3D, the GPU's drivers basically, and out of madVR's hands completely. As close to the display as madVR can get it. I use three frames in advance* myself. This setting has the biggest impact in apparent seek times if "delay playback start until render queue is full" is disabled, the present queue (frames in advance) must always fill before playback can start.

*Actually I use 3 backbuffers instead of a present queue, an older method used when "present several frames in advance" is unchecked or, in my case, using "enable windowed overlay" in general settings.

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

I am not sure what "look a bit odd at times" might mean but in case you are talking about presentation glitches or dropped frames....

If changing the present queue has a noticable effect you might have driver issues (is it a laptop or dual GPU?) or be using settings that are too high.

Maybe this helps?

Toggle the On Screen Display by pressing Ctrl-J.

The sum of the average stats "deinterlace" (if present), "rendering", and "present" should be a bit below the frame time, Y, in the line "v-sync [X] ms, frame [Y] ms" to avoid dropped frames and presentation glitches. For example, progressive 29.97 fps video has a new frame every 33.37 ms so "rendering"+"present" needs to be a few ms below 33.37 ms. 23.976 fps video has a new frame only every 41.71 ms so you can use more demanding settings with lower frame rate video. Exactly how far below the frame time is required for glitch free playback is dependent on the system but a few milliseconds is usually sufficient.

[Warner306]

The only thing I noticed while using 4 frames in advance in window view is when people walk past fast they seem tto look a bit odd at times...

How do I use a higher number of frames in advance without the occasional skipped frame?

If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.

[70MM]

If you are getting dropped frames every 30 seconds or so, then your settings may be too aggressive, even if your total rendering time is under the movie frame interval. Try turning your settings down to see if this corrects the problem.

If you are getting frame drops every three minutes or so, this could be clock jitter, where the audio and video clocks drift apart causing frame drops. The dropped frame estimator should predict this. Clock jitter is normal for most video cards in a HTPC.

If it is clock jitter, outputting the audio as PCM and using JRiver's VideoClock can correct this. Or you could bitstream, and you may find you can't notice these dropped frames while watching an actual movie, anyways.

If you are getting the best performance with a present queue of 4 frames, you should be fine. This is a preventative measure to prevent presentation glitches. It is not mandatory to use a queue of 8. This value was set to provide the best balance between performance and presentation issues. This should be thought of as a buffer before playback. Only if the buffer reaches 0 will you have problems.

One last thing: to stress test the present queue and determine if your settings are too aggressive, bring up a menu overlay from JRiver and observe the present queue. It should read 1-2/4. This is called low latency mode, which is designed to make the menus easier to navigate. If the present queue hits zero with the menu overlaid (0-1/4), then your settings are too aggressive for your GPU. If it stays at 1-2/4, then everything should be fine.

As usual thank you Warner for clarifying this... The skipped frame seems to only be ever so often, I notice it more on the start of a movie logo that might be turning. The same ones don't skip on my old Kodi PC, so obviously its a setting that's not right on my new JRiver Madvr PC.

Can you tell me where I find that present cue in JRiver please, Ive never seen it? Mind you there are so many settings on JRiver its a bit overwhelming! I do have their Red October VideoClock ticked on. Im bitstreaming.
This is my build.
CPU: Intel Skylake Core i7 6700 3.4Ghz
Motherboard: Asus H170M-PLUS Intel H170
Memory: 16GB 2133MHz DDR4
Video: Asus STRIX GTX 970 DirectCU II Overclocked 4GB GDDR5
Optical drive: ASUS BC-12D2HT 12x Blu-ray Reader
Storage: Crucial BX100 250GB SATA3 2.5" SSD


It also looks like I have to have this disabled, I will go and check it now.
"delay playback start until render queue is full"

[Werewolfy]

Here are the most important areas of FEEDBACK I need:

a) Do you consider the "anti-bloating" filter useful for sharpening (LumaSharpen + AdaptiveSharpen)? If so, which strength settings do you like?

Yes, it's useful. I find AdaptiveSharpen to look more natural with anti-bloating 75% or 100%.

b) Do you consider the anti-bloating and anti-ringing options useful for SuperRes? I think anti-bloating might not be beneficial here, but I'd like to hear your opinion. Do you see any benefit in the anti-ringing option? SuperRes already didn't ring that much, so I wonder if the separate anti-ringing post processing option is worthwhile in your opinion or not?

I only tested the anti-bloating filter so far and I don't like it for SuperRes, it removes all the benefits brought by SuperRes even with low values.

I will try to test the other features ASAP.