madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[HillieSan]

Not to replace madVR but to be happy to have also another Video Renderer which supports HDR. I am happy with MPC Video Renderer.

I use HDR passthrough.

[Klaus1189]

I was replying to Siso :)

[HillieSan]

You are right it is judder. I will check your links.

Another problem is that the resolution jumps from 3840x2160 to 1920x1080 using MPC BE and Madvr on the TV (Samsung). I never had this before.

In madvr I am using:
- display modes: switch to matching display mode...
- list of all display modes: 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p24, 2160p23, 2160p50

Some how the resolution is not in the list.


My mistake. I forgot to select the TV settings in madvr and I was looking at the projector setting. The list of all modes was “1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25”. I changed it into “ 2160p60, 2160p59, 2160p24, 2160p23, 2160p50” and the TV doesn’t switch to 1080 anymore.

[HillieSan]

In madvr setup ‘tv>display modes>custom modes tab’ is see that the resolutions are in “standard mode, unknown timing details’. Is this the reason why the TV shows judder? Do I have to change the timing here? How?

[Klaus1189]

Play a 24p file and show statistics of madvr

[Polopretress]

if you ask me so nicely.
10 bit is always better in theory the source bit deep doesn't matter for this it's always float point math and having lower dither noise is objectively better.

practice is sadly something else.
Thank you both(huhn and VBB) for your answer.:thanks:

[HillieSan]

Play a 24p file and show statistics of madvr

What do you mean? Do you want to know the info or is madvr determining the timing? I am asking because how do I get madvr to measure? Do I have to play a movie for 30 min at least? I don’t understand this feature.

[clsid]

Press Ctrl+J to show the madVR statistics overlay. Check that rendertime isn't too high because that would cause frame drops.

Enable VSync in NVIDIA settings and disable GSync. Set "frame to present in advance" to 1 in madVR settings.

[HillieSan]

Rendering time is 14.44ms.

I just enabled V-sync. Let’s see what happens.

[HillieSan]

Enabling Vsync did it �� thanks ��

Nice to see that cru is no longer necessary with madvr. Only HDR switching in Windows 10 needs to be fixed.

I am using NGU sharp very high with lots of enhancement and refinements enabled. It’s runs well on the RTX 3060 Ti.

Does anyone know good settings for a JVC X5000 projector?

[Siso]

NGU Sharp is pretty sharp, I don't know why do you need more sharpening and etc.

[HillieSan]

I use NGU sharp, but not more sharpening. NGU sharp isn’t pretty sharp with eshift. NGU and NGU AA are soft on eshift.

[VBB]

The micro stutter issue with the 2- and 3-series cards really needs a sticky. This comes up almost daily both here and at AVS. Klaus has a link to clsid's recommendations in his thread, so that's good, but not all that visible. Klaus, you might want to put something more prominent directly above the Nvidia driver list, like:

If you have an Nvidia 20xx/30xx video card and you encounter micro stutter while using madVR without actually dropping frames, please try the following:

1. In the Nvidia control panel, go to Manage 3D Settings, scroll all the way down and set Vertical Sync to 'On'. You can do this either globally or just for the media player executable.

2. In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> general settings, and uncheck 'enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode'

3. In the madVR settings, go to rendering -> windowed mode settings, and set 'how many video frames shall be presented in advance' to 1 or a maximum of 3

[HillieSan]

1. Done
2. FSE works fine.
3. Setting 1 gives a lips sync problem. I use default 8. Now I am back to FSE.

The JVC project uses a small motion enhancement which eliminates the micro stutter.

[toniash]

final steps is doing level conversation, dithering and calibration and may some other stuff we don't know.
3D LUT is well known to be able to increase this by a lot.
some bugs like bad power settings from the GPU can make it look like it takes a long time which isn't true. the same for the first renderstep which isn't the same in all cases.


:thanks: Huhn I had set dithering to "error diffusion"

[el Filou]

I attach some pictures. I apologize for some words in Italian but I think you understand the same.
No worries. From your screenshots, both players look set to use their own internal audio renderer, but I think they're different so maybe the problem comes from there. People here have said they use MPC-BE's audio renderer in MPC-HC, but from what I've read there are different versions of MPC-BE's renderer that work better or worse in MPC-HC and I have no experience with them.

Unfortunately your madVR screenshots were taken in pause mode.
Could you take screenshots again after a few seconds of playback without pausing?
You need to see another line between "composition rate" and "smooth motion" called "clock deviation" with a percentage, and check if it's different with the two players. The clock deviation can sometimes cause dropped frames.

[brazen1]

In the madVR Color and Gamma tab I can change values for SDR and the changes apply. When I make these changes for HDR nothing happens. Is this because I'm passing through or possibly some other setting blocking them? I notice the same behavior if I change in MPC-BE. SDR they apply. HDR they don't.

I ask because I'd like to control 'Saturation' on-the-fly by mapping the increase and decrease saturation settings to my remote. Some HDR appears over saturated and some don't. I want to fine tune on-the-fly if possible.

[VBB]

@brazen - Yeah, those settings only apply to SDR or when tone-mapping HDR to SDR. For HDR passthrough, which is pretty much all you and I can do with our 960s, you'll have to make your adjustments on the TV, if necessary.

[interpolation]

So I got a 3090 and it's able to output 4k@120Hz 4:4:4 10 bit to an LG CX with madvr+SVP. Really feels like the next gen of image processing past HDMI 2.0 limits.

[brazen1]

Yeah, that's what I thought. I've been doing it on the panel but there's no mapping the settings to my remote and thought if I could do it with the player or madVR I wouldn't interrupt playback. When you mention our 960's, I doubt another model would enable that ability unless you mean another model would allow tone mapping and because it would be SDR then the settings would apply. TBH, if I had a reason to upgrade the 960, I would still passthrough though. So far, personally, I've only one benefit if I upgraded; the ability to use RRN for HDR on very rare occasions. The 960 is too weak to use that algo. I'm searching for more reasons and unfortunately that alone just isn't worth it to me. I remember being attacked earlier because I mentioned GPU pricing is ridiculously high and told too bad I'm poor and can't afford a new GPU. This is a matter of principle to me... not my wealth. Eh, maybe I'll bump into enough justification as time goes by. After 5 years using the 960 I still haven't.

[VBB]

Oh, same here. The OLED guys are using tone-mapping, but with HDR output. Doing so would still give us access to all those crazy options that are in the beta right now. You could tweak your saturation there is what I meant :)

I've been watching a ton of HDR content recently, using pass-through. Still amazed by my now fairly old C7.

[Klaus1189]

...

@VBB:
OK. If you want something to be changed or added, let me know.

@all:
Fell free to reply if you have any other info that can be added. Best in the driver thread itself:
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)

[quietvoid]

FWIW I run madVR with tonemapping on a 970, the CPU seems to do most of the job since there's no hardware decoding. Running a 2700X.
No problem with 24p content, though I have to disable artifacts fixing and set dithering to ordered for 4K files. Play with the settings and you might be surprised.

For 60p, usually have to enable compromise on colors, and that drops the rendering to around 8ms.

These days I run madVR through a GPU passthrough VM, using 4 cores (8 threads) on Linux, same performance as when I used to boot into Windows.

[VBB]

Looks good, Klaus!

[VBB]

@quietvoid - Yeah, chros has been telling me to try TM, but I haven't had a compelling reason to so far. Been following the discussions here and at AVS from the beginning, but I think I'll wait not only until I finally replace the aging 960, but also until some of the more complicated settings are sorted out by the people who know what they're doing ;)

[senzaparole]

No worries. From your screenshots, both players look set to use their own internal audio renderer, but I think they're different so maybe the problem comes from there. People here have said they use MPC-BE's audio renderer in MPC-HC, but from what I've read there are different versions of MPC-BE's renderer that work better or worse in MPC-HC and I have no experience with them.

Unfortunately your madVR screenshots were taken in pause mode.
Could you take screenshots again after a few seconds of playback without pausing?
You need to see another line between "composition rate" and "smooth motion" called "clock deviation" with a percentage, and check if it's different with the two players. The clock deviation can sometimes cause dropped frames.

Hello! Thanks for the reply.

Here is the screenshot of MPC-HC in playback mode:
https://i.ibb.co/FXZrk6p/mpc-hc-2.jpg (https://ibb.co/kJb7VKZ)



Here is the screenshot of MPC-BE in playback mode:
https://i.ibb.co/qJs9P22/mpc-be.jpg (https://ibb.co/0sMZdzz)

[VBB]

Curious that the display refresh rate is off by one digit between the two, resulting in different amounts of frame repeats.

[chros]

@vbb, It's not complicated, almost everything is disabled :D Give this a try (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/post-59228954), it should work with 2160p@23p on 960 as well.
Btw, color and gamma settings does not work with hdr output.

@quietvoid, would you mind writing a bit about your madvr linux combo? Or link a good article? Thanks

[quietvoid]

@quietvoid, would you mind writing a bit about your madvr linux combo? Or link a good article? Thanks

It's just a Windows VM for which you passthrough the GPU via PCI, there are a bunch of articles about the method (sometimes referred as VFIO).
For example: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/PCI_passthrough_via_OVMF
Usually requires multiple GPUs.

In my case I just use a separate SSD with my old Windows installation, and it boots just fine into a VM.

The rest is identical to how madVR would run, connected to the display via the passed GPU.
I am using Looking Glass (https://looking-glass.io) to be able to access the VM without turning on the TV all the time, and to pass the input devices.

[ryrynz]

Curious that the display refresh rate is off by one digit between the two, resulting in different amounts of frame repeats.

Actually this value does go up and down a bit early on so chances are it's not related to this and this in just the normal fluctuation that happens.

[chros]

@quietvoid, thanks, really interesting! I'll ask more if I manage to get that far :)

[SirMaster]

@quietvoid, thanks, really interesting! I'll ask more if I manage to get that far :)

I also run my HTPC with madVR on a Linux server in a Windows VM and have done so for years.

VMs work just as well as dedicated machines, but easier to manage overall IMO.

[chros]

Cheers

[ryrynz]

Will be interesting to see how the new AI upscaling processors on this years high end sets compare against madVR's algos, things may finally have caught up now.

[jkauff]

One thing they don't compare to is the price. :scared: The AI sets I've seen in the CES 2021 press releases seem to be mostly $3K to $5K.

[el Filou]

Hello! Thanks for the reply.
Here is the screenshot of MPC-HC in playback mode:
Here is the screenshot of MPC-BE in playback mode:As other people commented, they look close enough at least this doesn't explain the amount of dropped frames.
What happens if in both players, instead of using the internal audio renderers, you manually select the DirectSound audio device (Topping?) ? Do the frame drops stop then?
I know this is not what you want, but it's to find out if the audio renderer is the cause.

[senzaparole]

thank you so much. Everything works as you thought.

I changed the audio renderer:
https://i.ibb.co/R6mfB0N/render-audio.jpg (https://ibb.co/c8H0CFw)


now MHC-BE is perfect:
https://i.ibb.co/7S5vs8Y/mpc-be-ok.jpg (https://ibb.co/NFPxcQV)

I never thought madVR would get swayed by audio. I'm afraid there are no solutions. I would prefer to select "MPC AUDIO RENDERER" but it is not possible.

MPC-HC with its internal audio Renderer is no problem. MPC-BE only

Thanks everyone for the help, much appreciated.

[ryrynz]

MPC-HC with its internal audio Renderer is no problem. MPC-BE only


You should post all relevant info regarding this issue over in the MPC-BE forum so the audio renderer can be improved to prevent this from happening.
Wouldn't hurt to try the releases here (https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpcbe/files/MPC-BE/Release%20builds/) download the standalone filters packages (x64)
and register it in the system it will then come up as another audio output that you can select in the drop down, then test and see if you can find a version that works without dropping frames.

[robl45]

Hello, I've been using lav filters and Madvr for 3d for 4 or 5 years now with no issues. About a week ago, it stopped working. Anyone know anything about this? I've reinstalled madvr and lav and still it doesn't work, when it does flip into 3d, its like the 3d is in slow motion. I thought it might be my hdmi to ethernet converters screwing something up so I connected the computer to my spare projector with straight HDMI and it did the same thing. I thought it was one specific file as we had literally watched 3d the day before and then realized it was all of them. Anyone have any ideas? I'm thinking a windows 10 update maybe or something broke it. Its a windows 10 machine with I3 processor Skylake with internal intel graphics.

[el Filou]

Impossible to say without more information, things do not break like that by themselves.
Under "View update history" in Windows Update settings, you can see exactly what date Windows installed updates, and also uninstall them. Maybe check that. Maybe it installed a new graphics driver?

[robl45]

Impossible to say without more information, things do not break like that by themselves.
Under "View update history" in Windows Update settings, you can see exactly what date Windows installed updates, and also uninstall them. Maybe check that. Maybe it installed a new graphics driver?

Tried tonight after days of troubleshooting, reverted to previous version of windows and it works perfectly again, hopefully this helps someone.

[el Filou]

When you say "previous version", was it a monthly ("quality") update, or a full new release ("feature update")? Can you give the two versions before/after the update?

[senzaparole]

You should post all relevant info regarding this issue over in the MPC-BE forum so the audio renderer can be improved to prevent this from happening.
Wouldn't hurt to try the releases here (https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpcbe/files/MPC-BE/Release%20builds/) download the standalone filters packages (x64)
and register it in the system it will then come up as another audio output that you can select in the drop down, then test and see if you can find a version that works without dropping frames.

@el filou
@ryrynz

I solved the problem!!!!! In the MPC Audio Renderer settings it was enough to change the DEVICE BUFFER from 50 ms to DEFAULT!
Now I don't lose frames anymore and madVR's OSD is perfect!
Thanks for your help!

[ryrynz]

Cool thanks for letting us know.

[webbo]

thank you so much. Everything works as you thought.


now MHC-BE is perfect:
https://i.ibb.co/7S5vs8Y/mpc-be-ok.jpg (https://ibb.co/NFPxcQV)

I never thought madVR would get swayed by audio. I'm afraid there are no solutions. I would prefer to select "MPC AUDIO RENDERER" but it is not possible.

MPC-HC with its internal audio Renderer is no problem. MPC-BE only

Thanks everyone for the help, much appreciated.


Regarding the screenshot of madVR info - how did you manage to almost set / sync display Hz to video Hz ?

Setting the TV to 23 or 24Hz would that suffice?
Appreciated

[Klaus1189]

23Hz is for 23.976Hz
24Hz is for 24.000Hz

[Silver12]

Hi,
I have just downloaded beta 120, is there a way to copy HDR settings for different devices. I want to use the same settings, changing only DPL values. I don't know how to do that. Hopefully somebody can help me, thanks a lot to all of you

[VBB]

@webbo - That's AMD :) You won't get nearly as close with Nvidia, but it's not too bad right now (about a drop/repeat every 1.07 hours).

[senzaparole]

Regarding the screenshot of madVR info - how did you manage to almost set / sync display Hz to video Hz ?

Setting the TV to 23 or 24Hz would that suffice?
Appreciated

Hello! It is madVR that changes the TV refresh rate adapting it to the native one of the movie.

[ashlar42]

I see a GTX 3050 could be coming. Would 4GB of RAM be enough for proper madVR use? I think GPU power should be plenty enough (but correct me if I'm wrong).