madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[seiyafan]

Thanks for the explanation!

[giulianoprs]

ah !!! I believed that "Smooth motion" was an IFC function of the plasma panasonic, which activated by a strange feeling, so IFC for me is always OFF!
I try to activate "Smooth motion", I want to see what happens differently.
"_Please trust your eyes_" hahahaha, you're right, watching movies or TV series not known any kind of shooting or irregularity, but watching the OSD I see those few "dropped frames" I get nervous, hahaha.
thanks to all the advice.

[chros]

I created 1 custom mode for 23p with madvr (the rest of the modes are fine on my system), all work fine.
- the interesting part is that it created a 24p entry in nvidia control panel not 23p. Is this right this way?
-- it still can properly switch to 23p and 24p ONLY if the mode is different at the beginning of playback (e.g. 60p)
- but if the mode of the display is set e.g. to 23p "manually" then madVR can't switch to the custom "23p" mode. Is this correct as well?

The 2nd one normally isn't an issue since at the end of the playback when the player closes, mnadvr switches back to the original mode (e.g. 60p).
But if I set "After playback: Sleep" in MPC-BE then madvr can't switch the mode back, and next time when I turn on the TV I have to manually set it back to 60p (since it's still in the custom 23p mode).
Is there any workaround for this?
Thanks!

[nghiabeo20]

Hi, can someone help me with the calibration settings?

I had my laptop monitor calibrated with a i1Display Pro, but the technician only gives me an icc file. I've already loaded it in Windows. I use DisplayCal software to convert it to a madVR 3dlut profile (Source profile: BT.709, target profile: my icc file) and load the output file in madVR BT.709 section. Does it cause the correction was applied twice therefore worsen the image quality?

Thanks!

Update: I think the answer is yes, it worsen the image. But the image quality still not convince me :(

Original image: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1buwPE81zO0uh3PqyACgIXLARlGN8sGT1/view?usp=sharing

Disable calibration:

https://i.imgur.com/gqbpaIW.png


Enable calibration with external 3dlut:

https://i.imgur.com/OF7t8jH.png


How to solve this? Thanks!

[x7007]

There is issue again with nvidia 417.35 . It doesn't detect NVidia mode 10 bit HDR . only 8 bit no matter what I do , even when I change the Output Color Depth to 10 bit. It worked fine before I think with one of the 4xx don't remember which .

Enabling OS HDR and changing to 10 bit fix this issue. I must it to be 10 bit because I am using something called DreamScreen which is like Philips Amblight it has LEDS on the back of the TV and it gives light of what u see . and using 8 bit doesn't give accurate color because it doesn't receive the current data it needs ( 8 bit ) . using 10 bit gives the correct colors .

[border.community]

There is issue again with nvidia 417.35 . It doesn't detect NVidia mode 10 bit HDR . only 8 bit no matter what I do , even when I change the Output Color Depth to 10 bit.



same here, only displaying 8-bit since update


is it only displaying 8-bit, or is it sending 8-bit as well?

[x7007]

same here, only 8-bit since update

Is someone with 417.xx older version than 35 can check it please ? if it works 10 bit with NV HDR mode ?

[j82k]

For me any driver after 416.81 doesn't trigger NV HDR, not even at 8-bit. The TV doesn't even try and then fail to switch to HDR like on previous broken drivers. Nothing happens at all.

Win10 1809, 1050 Ti, LG C8

[x7007]

For me any driver after 416.81 doesn't trigger NV HDR, not even at 8-bit. The TV doesn't even try and then fail to switch to HDR like on previous broken drivers. Nothing happens at all.

Win10 1809, 1050 Ti, LG C8

yes so the last working driver for NV HDR is 416.81 . thanks

I guess I'll just have to change the NVidia Color settings YCbcr 4:2:2 10 bit Limited every time and enable windows HDR .

The question is how will it work for games like Far Cry 5 ? would there bug there also ? because it auto goes HDR mode you don't enable windows HDR so it's lik NV mode ... interesting .. How can we check ?

[Asmodian]

I need FSE to trigger HDR with current drivers, but then it works fine. Win10 1809, 2080 Ti, 417.35, LG C7, RGB 8 bit full.

Edit: Actually, I seem to need to have madVR set output 10 bit for the drivers to switch to HDR, the GPU can output 8 bit, just not madVR. :mad:

[kitame]

is TFLOPs still a reliable indicator of which card would be better for MadVR? or had that changed?

e.g.
RX Vega 56 = 10.5 TFLOPs
GTX 1070 = 7.2 TFLOPs

in reviewer's game benches both perform roughly the same.
i really wish reviewers added MadVR to their list.

[Betroz]

Like someone else suggested here earlier, for those who run games and use MadVr on the same PC, just run a dual boot setup with Win 8.1 for MadVr and Win10 for games. Or two installs of Win10 if possible.

[chros]

Hi, can someone help me with the calibration settings?

This is your topic: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783&page=14

[huhn]

is TFLOPs still a reliable indicator of which card would be better for MadVR? or had that changed?

e.g.
RX Vega 56 = 10.5 TFLOPs
GTX 1070 = 7.2 TFLOPs

in reviewer's game benches both perform roughly the same.
i really wish reviewers added MadVR to their list.

it was sadly never an indicator for madVR performance between different architectures.

tflops are now fundamentally flawed too.
the 1070 tflops are with stock clocks but all properly cooled cards boost to around 1900 not the ~1500 they are sold at.

[kitame]

it was sadly never an indicator for madVR performance between different architectures.

tflops are now fundamentally flawed too.
the 1070 tflops are with stock clocks but all properly cooled cards boost to around 1900 not the ~1500 they are sold at.

7.2 TFLOPs is actually at 1900, max boost is rated 1900 in Wiki too.
from what is described in wiki, the TFLOPs is calculated purely based on Shader/CUDA cores and it's clock speed.
this means GTX1070 which only has 1920 CUDA cores would be way slower than RX Vega 56 which has 3584 shaders.


in any case, is there any way to get a rough estimate to their actual performance in MadVR?

edit: by the way, in certain "compute benchmarks" Vega series were shown outperforming even the GTX1080, so it's TFLOPs rating isn't entirely baseless.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/11717/the-amd-radeon-rx-vega-64-and-56-review/17

[nevcairiel]

in any case, is there any way to get a rough estimate to their actual performance in MadVR?

Not from paper stats like that. You can roughly use gaming performance as an indicator, but thats not going to be fully accurate either since game rendering uses far more parts of a GPU then just image shading.

[kitame]

Not from paper stats like that. You can roughly use gaming performance as an indicator, but thats not going to be fully accurate either since game rendering uses far more parts of a GPU then just image shading.

is there a particular benchmark that would reflect MadVR's workload? or at least close to it?

[huhn]

sadly no.

for example polaris is on paper fast in games but slow when madVR is used with NGU but only then it performance as expect with "any" other scaler/feature.

this was kind of the same with nnedi3 so who knows with the next algorithm. maybe you need an RTX card with tensor cores no one knows.

[kitame]

i see, however RTX cards are currently way overpriced, and there were rumors that it was intentionally so to get rid of Pascal cards.

edit: speaking of benchmarks though, i wonder if Madshi is interested in making a benchmark on MadVR.

[j82k]

Ok so with newer nvidia drivers (tested with 417.35) when starting an HDR movie:

madVR native display bitdepth set to 8-bit --> nothing happens, TV stays in SDR mode
madVR native display bitdepth set to 10-bit --> HDR triggers correctly

After starting a movie with 10-bit I can change it back to 8-bit and HDR stays active but when closing mpc-hc it doesn't return to SDR mode. Only closing it with 10-bit selected returns the TV to SDR mode.

Doesn't this point to it being a madVR problem then? :confused:
Why would it even make a difference regarding HDR triggering or not what bitdepth I have selected in madVR?

[chros]

Why would it even make a difference regarding HDR triggering or not what bitdepth I have selected in madVR?
Maybe it's a hardcoded limitation to do not screw up other stuff?

[huhn]

i see, however RTX cards are currently way overpriced, and there were rumors that it was intentionally so to get rid of Pascal cards.

edit: speaking of benchmarks though, i wonder if Madshi is interested in making a benchmark on MadVR.

this has come up a couple of time and can't be reliable done.

turing cards are similar price as pascal cards in the same performance range at least before pascal was sold off. not a nice situation to say it friendly but it is time to stop cry about it that's just how a monopole works.

i'm personally not a fan of the current situation but AMD has to be blamed for this too.

[SweetLow]

However, during playback/rendering, the whole chain is fully lossless. There's no lossy compression going on anywhere in between madVR and TV. So every dithered bit should reach the display untouched. As a result, bitdepth is much less important, because madVR's dithering is of very high quality.

We have VESA DSC on the horizon.

[x7007]

Ok so with newer nvidia drivers (tested with 417.35) when starting an HDR movie:

madVR native display bitdepth set to 8-bit --> nothing happens, TV stays in SDR mode
madVR native display bitdepth set to 10-bit --> HDR triggers correctly

After starting a movie with 10-bit I can change it back to 8-bit and HDR stays active but when closing mpc-hc it doesn't return to SDR mode. Only closing it with 10-bit selected returns the TV to SDR mode.

Doesn't this point to it being a madVR problem then? :confused:
Why would it even make a difference regarding HDR triggering or not what bitdepth I have selected in madVR?

I just use AUTO .... it detect properly every time with NV Mode if with proper drivers and OS HDR when I manually change to 10 bit in NVCP drivers .

HDR supposed to be 10 bit always in games and movies right ? but how do we know how much depth is it using when it auto detect in a game ? because when you enable it from OS HDR it's only 8 bith + dithering , it messes up my DreamScreen color signal .

Is there any app to tell us how much depth is it using?

[nevcairiel]

We have VESA DSC on the horizon.

HDMI 2.1 still has enough bandwidth for the forseeable future without needing compression, unless you want to get into 8K, which is probably beyond the point of diminishing returns in quality.
HDMI 2.1 should be able to transport 4K, 12-bit, 120Hz at full bandwidth, thats plenty for the next couple years.

[SweetLow]

HDMI 2.1 still has enough bandwidth for the forseeable future without needing compression, unless you want to get into 8K
I know. It's just little clarification that some things can change.
P.S. I remember you were talking about the "noise floor" before madshi's post ;)

[kitame]

unless you want to get into 8K, which is probably beyond the point of diminishing returns in quality.

actually that would depend on it's purpose.
like those examples they use to showcase how much better 4K is than 1080P, they could fit in a wider scene without compromising the quality and clarity.

https://www.videoconverterfactory.com/tips/imgs-self/4k-vs-8k/4k-vs-8k-banner-1.jpg

to point out, this would be way better with a large format display, completely replacing triple monitor with one gigantic screen.
and on that note, 8K is equivalent to 3 2560x1600 monitors, with 2720 extra vertical pixels.

[Mykola]

B) FreeSync / G-SYNC

Games create a virtual world in which the player moves around, and for best playing experience, we want to achieve a very high frame rate and lowest possible latency, without any tearing. As a result with FreeSync/G-SYNC the game simply renders as fast as it can and then throws each rendered frame to the display immediately. This results in very smooth motion, low latency and a very good playability.

Video rendering has completely different requirements. Video was recorded at a very specific frame interval, e.g. 23.976 frames per second. When doing video playback, unlike games, we don't actually render a virtual 3D world. Instead we just send the recorded video frames to the display. Because we cannot actually re-render the video frames in a different 3D world view position, it doesn't make sense to send frames to the display as fast as we can render. The movie would play like fast forward, if we did that! For perfect motion smoothness, we want the display to show each video frame for *EXACTLY* the right amount of time, which is usually 1000 / 24.000 * 1.001 = 41.708333333333333333333333333333 milliseconds.

FreeSync/G-SYNC would help with video rendering only if they had an API which allowed madVR to specify which video frame should be displayed for how long. But this is not what FreeSync/G-SYNC were made for, so such an API probably doesn't exist (I'm not 100% sure about that, though). Video renderers do not want a rendered frame to be displayed immediately. Instead they want the frames to be displayed at a specific point in time in the future, which is the opposite of what FreeSync/G-SYNC were made for.

If you believe that using FreeSync/G-SYNC would be beneficial for video playback, you might be able to convince me to implement support for that by fulfilling the following 2 requirements:

1) Show me an API which allows me to define at which time in the future a specific video frame gets displayed, and for how long exactly.
2) Donate a FreeSync/G-SYNC monitor to me, so that I can actually test a possible implementation. Developing blindly without test hardware doesn't make sense.

Any news about that? How about creating your own timer? Something like spin wait? Modern systems can easily sacrifice one CPU core. And what about modern DirectCompute? Does it have enough features, to trigger frame swap without switching to userland code?

[Olivier C.]

madshi,

May I ask if you could at least add a font size parameter in IMadVRTextOsd::OsdDisplayMessage (not needed in madVR GUI nor settings atm) in order to display some easily readable messages on UHD displays (especially when screen size / distance is quite critical).

Thanks a lot

madVR currently does not allow you to specify OSD size or font. I might add such features into a future version. But for now my priority is making madVR feature complete first. Cosmetical things like changing OSD looks is pretty low on my priority list right now. You'll have to wait a while until I get to these things, I'm sorry.

[madFloyd]

As Asmodian said, MadVR doesn't use any of the new features yet, but when/if it does it should make a significant difference.

FYI Madshi himself doesn't advise buying GTX GPUs anymore at this stage but recommends RTX instead. He has made no promises or committed to anything, but it's most likely his intention to take advantage of the new architecture in the future with MadVR.

So no differences now, but down the line possibly a significant one.

If you want best possible PQ in HDR using MAdVR's excellent HDR tonemapping with all options/features available, I wouldn't buy anything below a 2080 (roughly equal to 1080ti), and I recommend a 2080ti if you can afford it to have some headroom. My 1080ti is struggling with the latest HDR test algos and I have to use it in D3D11 native as Copyback isn't up to the task without degrading quality. That means I lose black bar detection with D3D11 native, or have to lower the quality of chroma upscaling (using NGU AA High at the moment, so it's possible to downgrade without too much of a downside visually).

My plan is to upgrade the 1080ti as soon as nVidia releases a model supporting HDMI 2.1 and 7nm, at some point in 2019.

Manni, where does one choose between native and copyback? Is this a madVR setting or a LAV setting?

[Asmodian]

It is a LAV setting.

[madFloyd]

It is a LAV setting.

Thanks. I've installed the latest LAV filters but can't seem to access them. I see that there is a desktop app for each of the filters but when I try to launch the LAV Video app nothing happens.

Any ideas?

[Damien147]

If the display is calibrated in target peak nits we put the calibrated peak nits or generally display's peak nits?

[XMonarchY]

Does anyone have issues with NVidia latest drivers on Win10 1607 and Exclusive Full screen mode? I get tearing near the top in fast-paced scenes and that's with madVR-set custom resolution.

[x7007]

Does anyone have issues with NVidia latest drivers on Win10 1607 and Exclusive Full screen mode? I get tearing near the top in fast-paced scenes and that's with madVR-set custom resolution.

Why do you guys need Exclusive Full Screen mode ( FSE ) ? Windowed mode works better an faster.

[huhn]

i highly doubt windowed is faster than FSE.

@XMonarchY
does the display rate match the composition rate?
how high is the present time.
maybe add an screen of the OSD.

[Asmodian]

The switch into FSE is obviously slower than into fullscreen windowed. ;)

[Rectal Prolapse]

Does anyone have issues with NVidia latest drivers on Win10 1607 and Exclusive Full screen mode? I get tearing near the top in fast-paced scenes and that's with madVR-set custom resolution.

I've had that problem before - on my system with a Sony 1080p projector, it was because the custom resolution I let MadVR pick is not compatible with the projector, leading to exactly what you are seeing. I had to pick a different one that is closer to specifications (I ended up trying 5 of them) and then it worked.

In the end I just manually create a custom resolution in the NVIDIA control panel instead of using MadVR's optimized ones. I already know what the settings should be so it saves me a lot of time doing that.

[giulianoprs]

even I do not need to use "Exclusive Full Screen mode" !!!
Windowed mode works better for me too, with no problems in playback, no dropped, repeated or delayed frames.
"Exclusive Full Screen mode" is more problematic.

[austinminton]

FSE is needed for the new rtx cards, definitely for my 2080 ti.

[Asmodian]

I only need FSE for HDR, SDR works very well on my 2080 Ti in fullscreen windowed.

[austinminton]

Interesting, I get stutter in fs windowed for sdr. Do you change refresh rates to match the source?

[cremor]

Does anyone have issues with NVidia latest drivers on Win10 1607 and Exclusive Full screen mode? I get tearing near the top in fast-paced scenes and that's with madVR-set custom resolution.
Make sure you didn't force VSync off in the driver. I did that once (because I read somewhere I should do it for G-Sync) and it also gave me tearing in madVR.

Interesting, I get stutter in fs windowed for sdr. Do you change refresh rates to match the source?
I have a RTX 2070 and windowed fullscreen works fine for me. I'm using madVR custom refresh rates and just SDR content.

[ryrynz]

Anyone got any performance numbers for 2070 vs 1080/1080Ti for madVR?

Also is there a way to get madVR to output an image beyond the screen resolution? I'd like to use it for upscaling images and saving but I'm limited to a non 4K screen.

[austinminton]

Ok so I stand corrected, not everyone with rtx needs FSE. I have tried with the latest drivers as well and am absolutely sure I need it for my setup. I get stuttering even with default madvr settings and matching refresh rates (i just cant tolerate unmatched). Have even tried a full windows reinstall. I am quite sure there are a few other users who have had the same problem and have solved it with FSE.

I dont need FSE for the exact same setup but the 2080 ti swapped out with a 1080.

For what its worth, my primary PC:
Intel 9900k, asus maximus xi code, 64gb ram, asus strix 2080 ti oc edition, samsung 970 evo, bunch of 10tb hdds. Sony 75" z9d as the primary display for madvr. Not sure what else could be relevant.

[Mykola]

Anyone got any performance numbers for 2070 vs 1080/1080Ti for madVR?

Also is there a way to get madVR to output an image beyond the screen resolution? I'd like to use it for upscaling images and saving but I'm limited to a non 4K screen.
In AMD drivers there is setting called Virtual Super Resolution, it allows to run apps in 4K on screens, smaller than 4K. May be nVidia has something similar.

[nevcairiel]

Also is there a way to get madVR to output an image beyond the screen resolution? I'd like to use it for upscaling images and saving but I'm limited to a non 4K screen.

madVR just renders to the players window size. It would be up to it to just be the size you want it to be, I would think.

[huhn]

Also is there a way to get madVR to output an image beyond the screen resolution? I'd like to use it for upscaling images and saving but I'm limited to a non 4K screen.

try the screen shoot function it can do up to 800%.

if you combine it with other tricks you can do quite some resolution.

@austinminton

don't forget the nvidia power setting there is a problem on windows 10 with windowed mode that can results in a stuttering mess on dual or more monitor setup where the refreshrate doesn't match on all screens(composition rate mismatches) this varies heavily by the used windows version. a way to test it is using overlay rendering which usually ignores such issues similar to FSE.

[Asmodian]

Ah, good point huhn. I am currently running with only one screen attached.

[foozoor]

@madshi
Can we expect something big before Christmas?
What about the new algorithm?