madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

CRU is an easy way to do EDID overrides....
So if he can change the product ID with CRU, the monitors don't have an EDID block...
Or they have an EDID block with identical product ID?

Can you try encoding a source
No. I have no experience with and no time for encoding.

wait, I've seen my fps go to 23.976 fps on telecined content without using madVR's film mode.
Where did you see that? Fraps? Reclock? There are different kinds of 60i sources out there. Some are hard telecined, others soft telecined, and many are a funny mix of hard and soft telecine. Soft telecined content can look like 23.976fps, even with DXVA deinterlacing. But that's not because DXVA can do decimating, but just due to the nature of the encoding. You won't see 23.976fps with hard telecined content, when using DXVA deinterlacing.

[Moragg]

Ok, will have to check whether I can isolate the problem with the FSE switch delay somehow.


Well, by turning "Present Several Frames in Advance" off you're practically going back to a rather old logic which madVR had used a long time ago. Some people are still using it because for some reason it works better for them. But as you found out yourself, having "Present Several Frames in Advance" turned on with a reasonably high number of frames produces better results for most users - especially on OSs newer than XP.

I'm guessing this logic doesn't work normally (for whatever reason) or you'd have implemented it, but would it be possible is it possible to "trick" madvr into presenting the frames later or something so audio and video are perfectly in sync?


Well, there you have it: FSE simply is the most reliable playback method. There's a reason why I have it enabled by default in the madVR settings - even though it comes with a number of usability disadvantages.

If your GPU supported Overlay mode, that would have been another thing worth trying. But if normal windowed mode simply doesn't run well on your PC (for whatever reason) you may have no other choice than to use FSE mode.

Windowed works fine, it's just these high framerate files I'm getting problems with.

Anyway, :thanks:

[turbojet]

No. I have no experience with and no time for encoding.

Does a log help then?

[mindbomb]

Where did you see that? Fraps? Reclock? There are different kinds of 60i sources out there. Some are hard telecined, others soft telecined, and many are a funny mix of hard and soft telecine. Soft telecined content can look like 23.976fps, even with DXVA deinterlacing. But that's not because DXVA can do decimating, but just due to the nature of the encoding. You won't see 23.976fps with hard telecined content, when using DXVA deinterlacing.

Oh, okay, i see. This clears up why when watch something that is a mix of hard and soft telecine that the frame rate will bounce around when not using film mode.
I was using reclock and double checked with evr cp. The content must have been soft telecined.

[khanmein]

guys, please kindly i need help cos whether i play .mkv it shown lav splitter (internal) low merit !!

http://i42.tinypic.com/2rdubub.png

[druneau]

guys, please kindly i need help cos whether i play .mkv it shown lav splitter (internal) low merit !!

I updated my MPC-HC today and noticed it came with its own copy of LAV.

I rechecked "option --> Internal Filters", some were now checked (they weren't before the update).

[ryrynz]

guys, please kindly i need help cos whether i play .mkv it shown lav splitter (internal) low merit


Internal filters: always try LAV Filters in low merit mode.
05abb83107 - Underground78 authored 2 days ago


Also, this is not the place to be posting about LAV or MPC-HC.

[madshi]

I'm guessing this logic doesn't work normally (for whatever reason) or you'd have implemented it, but would it be possible is it possible to "trick" madvr into presenting the frames later or something so audio and video are perfectly in sync?
Are you saying audio and video are not in sync? They should be. If they're not, it's likely something else in your playback chain and not madVR - unless you get constant frame drops reported. In that case I can't guarantee perfect audio/video sync.

Does a log help then?
I'll quote myself:

> I can only do anything (if at all) if I can reproduce
> it, though. So do your best to create a good
> step-by-step guide that allows me to reproduce
> the problem on my PC.

guys, please kindly i need help cos whether i play .mkv it shown lav splitter (internal) low merit !!
Please don't post the same question in multiple threads. That's considered rude. Also, this doesn't really have anything to do with madVR.

[madshi]

Here's a test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRfseTest.rar

Can those of you who have FSE delay with v0.86.7 please check whether this test build fixes the issue?

[pankov]

madshi,
this test build fixed the FSE issue that I had on my bedroom PC (Intel HD4000) with 0.86.7.
As far as I can tell it was always switching resolutions/refresh rates when going into FSE mode even though it was already at the correct one.
Is this what you actually changed in the test build?

[ryrynz]

please check whether this test build fixes the issue

Fixed!

[madshi]

Good to hear! So the problem was caused by my hacking around to fix the win8 wrong refresh rates when entering FSE mode. I've modified the hack a bit in the test build to apply it only if really necessary, and that seems to fix the FSE delay. However, for users who're on win8 and who need the hack, the FSE delay might still be there - but at least afterwards the correct refresh rate should be used.

[THEAST]

Edit: Scratch that, was a false-positive...

[andybkma]

Here's a test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRfseTest.rar

Can those of you who have FSE delay with v0.86.7 please check whether this test build fixes the issue?

Worked for me too :-)

[turbojet]

madshi: I'll make a batch file that starts an x264 encode using lavfilters as source but will need you to do a few changes with lavfilters but nothing needs to be installed. Might get it done today otherwise early next week. You might be able to move the player to another screen and with osd on switch, create new tabs in chrome or firefox and see some dropped frames but it's not consistent.

There's a lot of crashes (almost every time) in 86.7 going to next file in mpc-be. Doesn't happen with 86.6.

EDIT: added backbuffer issue to bugtracker.

[madshi]

There's a lot of crashes (almost every time) in 86.7 going to next file in mpc-be. Doesn't happen with 86.6.
Crashes in madVR? Does madVR show a bug report window? Or does MPC-BE itself crash?

[turbojet]

MPC-BE stable 1.2.0.3 crashes but latest nightly works fine. Seems like madvr 86.7 triggered an mpc-be bug that's since been fixed. MPC-HC stable and latest nightly work fine.

[Soukyuu]

What is the advantage of using the overlay mode vs. not using it? So far disabling it didn't seem to change anything except for no more glitches while resizing the window and the preview actually showing the video when hovering over a tab.

[truexfan81]

What is the advantage of using the overlay mode vs. not using it? So far disabling it didn't seem to change anything except for no more glitches while resizing the window and the preview actually showing the video when hovering over a tab.

when in windowed mode or non FSE, using overlay allows for smooth playback even with higher gpu usage, without it i think it starts getting choppy at about 60%, with overlay you can go upwards of 80% before it starts getting choppy

[6233638]

What is the advantage of using the overlay mode vs. not using it? So far disabling it didn't seem to change anything except for no more glitches while resizing the window and the preview actually showing the video when hovering over a tab.Better performance in windowed mode, but the trade-off is the problems that you describe. (just like FSE gives you even better performance, but also impacts usability)

Here's a test build:

http://madshi.net/madVRfseTest.rar

Can those of you who have FSE delay with v0.86.7 please check whether this test build fixes the issue?0.86.7 is switching to 24/59Hz in FSE for me, and this test build is switching to 23/59 again. (madVR is set for 24/60)

Windowed mode is still working correctly.

[turbojet]

Another limitation of overlay is it doesn't work with multiple instances. MadVR currently allows this but it could probably work around it by checking for another madvr overlay instance and automatically disables overlay if it finds one.

I wonder how vlc gets around all these overlay limitations, it runs nice and smooth near 100% gpu.

[Trib]

Ive been wondering does my panasonic st30 plasma expects tv or full range as unlike my previous sony lcd this one doesnt have any black levels switch or otherwise any calibration settings on the tv except contrast and brightness thats about it. With my sony I also got 16-235 in madvr with whole chain 0-255 which I assume was the correct behaviour.

Using the AVS HD 709 black and white patters and True Cinema preset from tv I get and whole chain until madvr set to 0-255 (used madnvtweak for gfx card)
1) MadVr set to 16-235 -> black clips at 16 white goes to 255 on white pattern test
2) MadVr set to 0-255 -> black doesnt show at all compared to 1) white clips at 235

With my sony I got 16-235 in madvr with whole chain 0-255 so Im not sure tho measuring with spyder 4 hcfr says the gamma deltas are <4E(overall around ~2.2avg gamma) and color too with option 1) so I assume its correct? (with 2) delta avg >18E and gamma ~2.6) If this is the case why does it still show 235-255 and is this a bad thing?

[6233638]

Ive been wondering does my panasonic st30 plasma expects tv or full range as unlike my previous sony lcd this one doesnt have any black levels switch or otherwise any calibration settings on the tv except contrast and brightness thats about it.The manual indicates that you should have this option:

http://www.abload.de/img/hdmiiasxc.png

There is also a "Black Level: Dark/Light" option, which is presumably for YCC signals.


Using the AVS HD 709 black and white patters and True Cinema preset from tv I get and whole chain until madvr set to 0-255 (used madnvtweak for gfx card)
1) MadVr set to 16-235 -> black clips at 16 white goes to 255 on white pattern test
2) MadVr set to 0-255 -> black doesnt show at all compared to 1) white clips at 235That indicates your display is set to 16-235, but doesn't clip above 235. (presumably contrast isn't high enough to clip)

[makakam]

Has anyone seen "The Place Beyond the Pines" and can confirm that blacks are washed out? When switching between tv and pc levels in madvr I can see that pc levels look better (though I think some details might be crushed then) but tv levels is what works best for me in every other movie (of course it works with calibration patterns as well). Thanks.

[ryrynz]

The manual indicates that you should have this option:


Have the same TV, it doesn't have this option.

[6233638]

Have the same TV, it doesn't have this option.It must be a regional difference - unfortunately Panasonic have a track record of doing that. It looks like the manual I checked was for the US model (http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TCP42ST30.PDF).

[Qaq]

For panny TVs I'd use YCC 4:4:4 in video driver and TV anyway. Panny TVs are known to screw RGB 444 down to YCC 422. YCC 444 should be safe.

[kasper93]

Has anyone seen "The Place Beyond the Pines" and can confirm that blacks are washed out? When switching between tv and pc levels in madvr I can see that pc levels look better (though I think some details might be crushed then) but tv levels is what works best for me in every other movie (of course it works with calibration patterns as well). Thanks.

Yes, I can confirm that. But this is shitty Russian version and I think it's just broken. Wait and buy proper version when they release it. According to blu-ray.com official premiere is on Aug 06, 2013.

Ps. This is wrong place to discuss such things...

[Trib]

It must be a regional difference - unfortunately Panasonic have a track record of doing that. It looks like the manual I checked was for the US model (http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPERMANPDF/TCP42ST30.PDF).

Yup my EU, specifically Nordic/Finnish model doesnt have that option atleast.

[madshi]

madVR v0.86.8 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: entering FSE mode sometimes caused a delay (introduced in v0.86.7)
* added support for specifying a separate external 3dlut for each source gamut
* gamut conversion is now skipped if the 3dlut gamut matches the source gamut
* madTPG: screensaver is blocked (except if it is passworded!)
* madTPG: screen is prevented from going to sleep
* madTPG: added "stay on top" button
* madTPG: changed the way the "fullscreen" button works
* madTPG: window size/state and all settings are auto saved now
* madTPG: now works without requiring madVR to be installed
* madTPG: fixed: crash when madVR was not installed

[rack04]

madVR v0.86.8 creates a log file on the desktop. Is this intentional?

[antonyfrn]

madVR v0.86.8 creates a log file on the desktop. Is this intentional?

Confirmed here is there away to disable it as I don't want unneeded writes to my SSD just under 500meg log file for 5min of video being played.

Also noticed madTPG full screen doesn't work. But did work in 0.86.6

[Warlock]

You can disable this log file? Just watched a video of 24min, he created +-2GB log file.

[DragonQ]

Have the same TV, it doesn't have this option.

My Panasonic TX-P50ST50B also has differing menus to what most claim on the internet. Definitely a regional thing. It accepts both 0-255 and 16-235 and adjusts automatically though.

[madshi]

Sorry, my fault. I've accidently compiled the release build as debug build. I've fixed it now, please re-download.

@antonyfrn, the "use fullscreen" button works differently now. It doesn't go fullscreen immediately. It will go fullscreen in the moment when ArgyllCMS/HCFR start measuring. The purpose of this change is that you can activate fullscreen mode while running ArgyllCMS/HCFR on the same PC. That wasn't possible before. If you prefer going fullscreen immediately, you can still do so by pressing Alt+Return.

[Nui]

@ madshi
In the last few days I tried generating 3dluts myself.

I noticed, that madvr requires the parametersData field in the .3dlut file. This and what it expects is not clear from the the file specification :)
So I copied a "minimal" parametersData from a madvr-ycms generated 3dlut to create my own. Again I dont know how relevant this is. Especially now when you load a 3dlut for a specific target.

I dont know if im doing something wrong, but I noticed some odd behaviour.
All input values from 0 to 15 are disregarded, at least in my tests. The same goes for output, black is 16*256. White is a 255 and 255*256 respectively.
Isnt this behaviour just wrong?

Once I knew that, I successfully created useful luts, so im happy :)
So thanks again for your awesome renderer! :D

[ryrynz]

Hey Madshi, can ya improve a little on the icon for madHcCtrl.exe?

[madshi]

I noticed, that madvr requires the parametersData field in the .3dlut file. This and what it expects is not clear from the the file specification :)
Yeah, unfortunately when we specified the 3dlut file format, we failed to add proper fields to the header which define which gamut the 3dlut expects the input data to be in. Because of that madVR checks "parametersData" to find that information. Copying that minimal parametersData from a madVR-yCMS generated 3dlut should do the trick, but please also make sure you set "Input_Primaries" to the correct coordinates, because madVR will convert the source gamut to those Input_Primaries.

All input values from 0 to 15 are disregarded, at least in my tests. The same goes for output, black is 16*256. White is a 255 and 255*256 respectively.
Isnt this behaviour just wrong?
The 3dlut format used by madVR uses video levels. So 0-15 are BTB, 236-255 are WTW, black is 16 and white is 235. The BTB and WTW areas should not be clipped by the 3dlut processing itself, but depending on your settings, they might be clipped somewhere in the processing chain.

[madshi]

Hey Madshi, can ya improve a little on the icon for madHcCtrl.exe?
What do you mean? It clearly reads "mad", doesn't it? Isn't that clear enough?

[cyberbeing]

Only the tray icon reads "mad". The actual exe is now a music note...

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/6341/w8qq.png

[kopija]

Madshi, how come using linear light for smooth motion FRC is disabled by default? I just turned it on and saw no impact on GPU load.

[madshi]

Only the tray icon reads "mad". The actual exe is now a music note...
Oooops. Seems the Windows icon cache fooled me here. It still shows the "mad" icon. Only when I move madHcCtrl to a new folder, I can see the music note.

Madshi, how come using linear light for smooth motion FRC is disabled by default? I just turned it on and saw no impact on GPU load.
You probably have a somewhat faster GPU? I think for really old GPUs there could be a noticable difference in performance?

Can anybody with a slow GPU double check? Should I enable linear light for smooth motion FRC by default?

[cyberbeing]

Can anybody with a slow GPU double check? Should I enable linear light for smooth motion FRC by default?

Increases GPU load by ~3% if I upscale from 1280x720 23.976fps to 1600x900 @85Hz.

Increases GPU load by ~10% if I upscale from 1280x720 23.976fps to 2048x1152 @85Hz.

Increases GPU load by ~10% playing 1920x1080 deinterlaced 60fps with 1920x1080 @85Hz.

[ryrynz]

I would say that's a reasonable compromise, might as well enable it by default. What GPU was that BTW Cyberbeing?

[cyberbeing]

I would say that's a reasonable compromise, might as well enable it by default. What GPU was that BTW Cyberbeing?

A GPU I would disable this option on, even if it were enabled by default. ;)

GT440 1GB DDR5

[madshi]

Need Feedback:

The recent versions (v0.86.7 and v0.86.8) are supposed to fix refresh rate switching in Windows 8, when entering fullscreen exclusive mode. Without that fix, switching to 60.000Hz resulted in 59.940Hz being used, and switching to 24.000Hz resulted in 23.976Hz being used by Direct3D in FSE mode. The fix works for me with my Intel HD4000, resulting in 60.000Hz and 24.000Hz being used in FSE mode. However, I've received a report that it doesn't work in the madVR bug tracker.

So all you Windows 8 users: Could you please check whether you can get 60.000Hz and 24.000Hz to work with v0.86.8 in FSE mode, when using the madVR display mode switcher? Please mention whether your OS is x86 or x64, and which GPU you're using.

Thanks!!

[kopija]

You probably have a somewhat faster GPU? I think for really old GPUs there could be a noticable difference in performance?

Can anybody with a slow GPU double check? Should I enable linear light for smooth motion FRC by default?

Intel HD 3000 here, when upscaling SD content to 720p plasma, no noticable increase in GPU load.

[ryrynz]

Yeah that's why I enable it, it's jack all of anything. I don't think many people at all are upscaling to beyond 1920x1080 or running 60fps content or displays higher than 60hz either
so that 10% GPU usage really is in the more extreme situations. Reckon Cyberbeing should just upgrade already :)

[mark0077]

madshi, does madVR simply switching from desktop to FSE (by making the player go fullscreen, rather than using the display mode switcher) also need to be tested? I still have an issue when going from 60.000hz desktop mode to FSE, it goes into 59.9hz mode, but thats the same for games I believe, probably nothing to do with madVR right?

[madshi]

madshi, does madVR simply switching from desktop to FSE (by making the player go fullscreen, rather than using the display mode switcher) also need to be tested? I still have an issue when going from 60.000hz desktop mode to FSE, it goes into 59.9hz mode, but thats the same for games I believe, probably nothing to do with madVR right?
If you disable the display mode switcher then madVR is not responsible for the refresh rate. You could try enabling the display mode switcher and only enter one resolution: 1080p60, if that's what you want to achieve. If you do that, madVR is supposed to make sure this also works in FSE mode.