madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[myworldoftech]

If no hardware acceleration method is used like CUVID or DXVA, would that free up more of the GPU processing power and allow it to better handle JINC scaling?

Does it make sense to use the GPU as a pure scaler with the CPU handling whatever else is needed to decode?

Could JINC or better scaling be handle in software (by processor) to do away with needing a powerful GPU? What kind of processor would be needed to do that?

[huhn]

Does it make sense to use the GPU as a pure scaler with the CPU handling whatever else is needed to decode?

that's what madvr does

Could JINC or better scaling be handle in software (by processor) to do away with needing a powerful GPU? What kind of processor would be needed to do that?

could yes but find a better upscailing program frist

If no hardware acceleration method is used like CUVID or DXVA, would that free up more of the GPU processing power and allow it to better handle JINC scaling?

for me yes but not allways dxva native takes some vram but is pretty fast...

[Dodgexander]

I found a workaround for the "stuck window" problem, with which I can live:

I deactivated in System - Visual Effects the animation for minimizing and maximizing of windows (don't exactly know how it's called in the english Win7 Version). Now I don't have stuck windows anymore and I can live without this animation and still use rest of Aero.

Here is the Setting that I deactivated:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/disable-the-maximize-minimize-windows-animation-in-windows-7/

Thanks, ill try it out!

Anyone with this problem, are we all amd users? I own a 6870 personally.

Sent from my Blade S using Tapatalk 2

[Prinz]

pankov is NVIDIA User if his Signature is correct. That is the reason I think it's a OS bug.

[Luv]

XP32
Zoomplayer 5.02
HD4770
Catalyst 12.4

Madshi,excellent build.The rendering times with Spline 4 taps have gone down dramatically.No frame drops,no glitches anymore.Quite a huge difference compared to 85.7,I must say.
Is 85.8 heavily optimized? You mentioned a change in madvr's logic...Please keep it this way because the performance increase is really tangible.
THANK YOU ! :)

[Niyawa]

Wait. My answer was a reply to your question about what that "deviation" information in the OSD means. 24p@60Hz is a different topic. The simple problem with 24p@60Hz is that 60 is not a simple mulitply of 24, which means that every renderer out there today shows a 3:2 motion judder. Basically frame A is shown for 2 vsync periods, then frame A+1 is shown for 3 vsync periods, then frame A+2 for 2 vsyncs, frame A+3 for 3 vsyncs, etc. This uneven frame repeat pattern results in that motion isn't perfectly smooth.
Okay now I got it, no wonder I was confused. Thanks again.

[namaiki]

I found a workaround for the "stuck window" problem, with which I can live:

I deactivated in System - Visual Effects the animation for minimizing and maximizing of windows (don't exactly know how it's called in the english Win7 Version). Now I don't have stuck windows anymore and I can live without this animation and still use rest of Aero.

Here is the Setting that I deactivated:
http://www.addictivetips.com/windows-tips/disable-the-maximize-minimize-windows-animation-in-windows-7/

In madVR settings you could probably, enable 'disable Aero while in fullscreen mode' option instead of disabling that globally. I experienced the same thing on my computer in madVR.

[pie1394]

I don't see why there would be a ghost image effect. Frame blending is used all the time to bring old NTSC 60i TV series to PAL 50i TV and it's not "visible" during motion. Of course when using it to reduce the fps, it reduces quality by making everything quite a bit softer. But that problem shouldn't apply when increasing fps significantly. I expect a proper 24 -> 60 solution to look almost identical to true 24 -> 24 playback.


Frame blending isn't perfect but is pretty damn good.

For example, broadcasting US sports in the UK requires the 1080i/30 (or 720p/60) video being converted to 1080i/25 but even those looking for this conversion probably wouldn't notice.

As a complete side note, ideally they'd use high-speed cameras (which they have already) to shoot at 300/600 fps, then they can downsample to both 50 fps and 60 fps without any frame trickery. This'd mean there's two "master signals" though and would probably be rather complicated to configure.

I would like to see how it performs when this method is implemented in madVR.

The regular 3:2 repeated frame method for 23.976 fps (anime contents) to 60 fps has an issue on my interlaced PDP TV (Hitachi P42A01A). It could show some content's vertical flicks with object's motion in the vertical direction. The video output mode is set to 1920x1080i60.

I seldom use 1920x1080p60 mode since it degrades the visual quality on this TV --- obviously anti-flicking filter is applied.

If I set the video signal to 1920x1080p23 (23.976 fps), the issue is gone. Since this TV's panel driving is still 1024x1080i60 for 1920x1080p24 input signal, I guess it does some tricks to prevent 24 fps content's presentation from showing such flicks --- without any visual quality degradation.

[yahyoh]

I'm not sure, but this might have to do with the speed of your PC. Are you using DXVA or CUVID decoding? Try software decoding. Or try using Bilinear for everything, just to check if that makes the problem go away.




:thanks:

Thanks man i changed hardware acceleration setting in lav filters to
DXVA2(copy back ) and now every thing 100% working :cool:

cuz i'm not using Nvidia GPU to use CUVID :)

[Dodgexander]

Does anyone know how to calibrate correctly Black to Black and White to White levels?

I have a couple of test patterns, but Madvr info is detecting the range as "limited" and not "full" like it should be, so I cannot calibrate.

[nevcairiel]

Test patterns for Black and White Level always are marked as Limited Range, because thats whats the majority of all consumer video is. Wouldn't make sense to calibrate against something else, would it?
The only difference there is that the test pattern then contain BTB and WTW values, so you can calibrate your playback chain that you see 16-235, and not BTB/WTW.

[Dodgexander]

Test patterns for Black and White Level always are marked as Limited Range, because thats whats the majority of all consumer video is. Wouldn't make sense to calibrate against something else, would it?
The only difference there is that the test pattern then contain BTB and WTW values, so you can calibrate your playback chain that you see 16-235, and not BTB/WTW.

Thanks Nev, so what would happen if I were to playback a video that had full range? Would it be detected? Do you know of a sample I can test that with?

[6233638]

Does anyone know how to calibrate correctly Black to Black and White to White levels?

I have a couple of test patterns, but Madvr info is detecting the range as "limited" and not "full" like it should be, so I cannot calibrate.If you have a flat panel or a digital projector, there's no need for BTB or WTW patterns.

Brightness: Disable any auto contrast options. Put up an all-black pattern and adjust the brightness control until the display stops getting any darker. You have found the correct setting when +1 brightness will visibly brighten the screen, and -1 will not go any darker.

Contrast can really be set wherever you like. Modern displays shouldn't clip highlights when adjusting the contrast control, and blooming is no longer a concern. I recommend the default position or lower. (often 90/100 on LCDs)

[jkauff]

Sorry for the newb question, but I can't get the madVR control panel to launch on my machine in any player. I always get a message along the lines of "Make sure your firewall isn't blocking madVR". I'm on Win 7 64 bit using mostly MPC-HC 32-bit and Zoom Player MAX. I've registered madVR.ax as Admin, but Windows just can't find the file. Is there a hot key combination to open the control panel?

[Dodgexander]

Sorry for the newb question, but I can't get the madVR control panel to launch on my machine in any player. I always get a message along the lines of "Make sure your firewall isn't blocking madVR". I'm on Win 7 64 bit using mostly MPC-HC 32-bit and Zoom Player MAX. I've registered madVR.ax as Admin, but Windows just can't find the file. Is there a hot key combination to open the control panel?

It appears upon playback in your system tray (near time, bottom right)

Don't think you can access outside of playback

[Pat357]

Thanks for the wonderful answer. I better bookmark this so I won't forget where to look up when I want more details. Let's just see if I got this. Basically the problem with 24p@60Hz is that you need to find a way to make the Video and Audio clock to stay sync without the need of repeated or dropped frames. That's hard to do with ReClock because of the way it works (by changing not only the refresh rate, but the video fps as well). I may have got it wrong since this is all news to me but for now that's enough, thanks again.
Start reading the Reclock documentation about what kind of content there is and how things work.
I'd recommend it as a good starter.
The best way to build up some knowledge is reading a lot about it
And let Google be your friend !

[Pat357]

This wasn't a request but a question about concept. What do we want to know? What should the OSD show?
I just thought about that since i was under the impression you mostly left the repeat stats for mismatching frame- and refreshrates out because of counting all repeats doesn't make much sense. So the question is what does make sense for the future?
I agree that this would be the info we want to know and it's IMHO a good way to start : I still would like to know about dropped/repeated frames when I'm watching 24p content on my 48Hz monitor.
Of course, this was the ""easy" part : now some indication of all kinds of "judder" for the OSD ..:rolleyes:

[Dodgexander]

For those that have the problem with the fading/stuck windows. Has anyone noticed this happen even more with recent releases?

I upgraded to the latest Madvr and Lav, and now the stuck windows happen even more! Sometimes my other monitor goes completely black even.

*Edit I am also receiving a lot of crashes in MPC-BE related to madvr. Anyone had similar?

[Qotscha]

Anyone had similar?

I have similar problems when using dxva2 decoding. If I open a new file while playing a video in fullscreen exclusive mode on my secondary display, I often get a black screen or a MPC HC (or BE) crash. With software decoding everything works flawlessly.

[Prinz]

Don't have that problem, but I use Zoomplayer and only Software-Decoding.

[Dodgexander]

Yes the problem only exists using Dxva so it seems, would be interesting if its only AMD users with the problem using dxva or nvidia too.

[Prinz]

I can't test that because my ATI is to slow(old) with dxva decoding, it has all sorts of problems with it.

[Dodgexander]

What card do you own? I have a HD6870 and it seems to cope ok.

[Prinz]

A very old ATI 2600 XT.

[G_M_C]

[...]

Another thing, when using exclusive mode, with my secondry monitor sometimes applications get "stuck". They fade, and become unresponsive until I take madvr out of exclusive mode by right clicking on mpc. Is there any reason this is happening? Seems a driver thing.

Disabling desktop composition does the trick, but is there away to keep it without this happening?

Disabling exclusive mode results in dropped frames sadly...

For those that have the problem with the fading/stuck windows. Has anyone noticed this happen even more with recent releases?

I upgraded to the latest Madvr and Lav, and now the stuck windows happen even more! Sometimes my other monitor goes completely black even.

*Edit I am also receiving a lot of crashes in MPC-BE related to madvr. Anyone had similar?

Do you mean the 'stuck' applications bug you described? And does it only happen with DXVA2 decoding in LAV? Let me know, i can test with my 7850.

I use MPCHT with madVR and output fse on secondary (TV). I regularly use my PC / internet on my primary while playing the film that way. I never had any bug. But i dont use HW decoding in LAV.

[madshi]

I thought you guys had found out that this problem also occurs with EVR. So why are you still discussing this in the madVR thread?

[aufkrawall]

Could you guys check if you can play 60fps videos without framdedrops for at least three minutes or longer?
Somehow not possible for me.

[yahyoh]

Yes the problem only exists using Dxva so it seems, would be interesting if its only AMD users with the problem using dxva or nvidia too.

no problem at all here using DXVA2 copy back

i have crappy laptop GPU AMD 5470m :p

[6233638]

Could you guys check if you can play 60fps videos without framdedrops for at least three minutes or longer?
Somehow not possible for me.60fps videos play fine here, but it depends on your hardware?

[pirlouy]

A little use complaint: I'm a bit disappointed by the loss of 1 feature: the ability to rename files for particular screen refresh files (60p, 23p, etc.).
Indeed, sometimes, even if videos are 24fps, I prefer to watch them at 60Hz, because there are short, and I don't need a change of refresh screen.

[aufkrawall]

60fps videos play fine here, but it depends on your hardware?
Got a GTX 670, so performance shouldn't be the matter.
But maybe drivers? Hm...

[Jong]

Post a screenshot of OSD. It sounds like only a slightly worse than usual case of inaccurate video clock. One frame drop every 3 mins = 59.994hz instead of 60hz.

Reclock (or equivalent in JRiver MediaCenter or MediaPortal) would fix. Or follow Madshi's guide to improving your video timings.

[aufkrawall]

Post a screenshot of OSD. It sounds like only a slightly worse than usual case of inaccurate video clock. One frame drop every 3 mins = 59.994hz instead of 60hz.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1612756#post1612756
Refreshrate is higher, so there shouldn't be any framedrops, just repeats, right?

[Dodgexander]

Do you mean the 'stuck' applications bug you described? And does it only happen with DXVA2 decoding in LAV? Let me know, i can test with my 7850.

I use MPCHT with madVR and output fse on secondary (TV). I regularly use my PC / internet on my primary while playing the film that way. I never had any bug. But i dont use HW decoding in LAV.

Yes, stuck applications, usually maximizing windows. It almost feels like a crash until you go out of exclusive mode and back in again. There is also often black screens on either screen, although this only started happening in the latest release.

I thought you guys had found out that this problem also occurs with EVR. So why are you still discussing this in the madVR thread?

It only happens in full screen exclusive mode and doesn't happen with EVR.

no problem at all here using DXVA2 copy back

i have crappy laptop GPU AMD 5470m :p

Are you using a second screen in fullscreen exclusive mode? Playing on the same screen or without exclusive mode works fine.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, you can either disable desktop composition to fix (in madvr settings). Or also disable this in visual options (in windows).

As seen in this link (http://aluminas.net/v?ID=0cdead), minimizing/maximize windows option disabled does eliminate this problem.

[Prinz]

I think were talking about two Bugs here:

1. The "stuck window" Bug. Can be worked around with disable desktop composition or disable minimize/maximize animation. This Bug also occurs with EVR (when using Exclusive Mode in MPC-HC). So that's something for Microsoft to fix.

2. The Black Screen Bug. This Bug I don't have and it looks like it only happens with dxva. (I don't use dxva)

[konakona]

What exacly are presentation glitches in fullscreen exclusive mode? I dont usually use it but im asking out of curiosity,as i can accumulate really a lot of them during standard playback.
Im using latest drivers for ati hd4870.

Also,do you think that GeForce gtx260 would be better for video playback overall? Are there any serious differences between ati and nvidia considering video playback?

EDIT:also,what exacly are gpu flushing options used for? and what does presenting few frames in advance do? could it help with my frame interpolation problems? (basically,i see something like current frame+last frame at the same time on screen(not really eye-hurting on movies,but my eyes bleed on anime-its particulary visible when panning over hard edges) -could it be because i forced 72hz refreshrate in powerstrip and gpu video logic still tries to render@60hz?
(screen osd,madvr,powerstrip,and reclock report 72hz,but dxdiag log says:
---------------
Display Devices
---------------
Card name: ATI Radeon HD 4800 Series
[...]
Current Mode: 1680 x 1050 (32 bit) (60Hz)

also,later in the log it says:
Deinterlace Caps:
[...] [i decided to only put these with nv12 tags there]
{3C5323C1-6FB7-44F5-9081-056BF2EE449D}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{552C0DAD-CCBC-420B-83C8-74943CF9F1A6}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{6E8329FF-B642-418B-BCF0-BCB6591E255F}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,1) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
{335AA36E-7884-43A4-9C91-7F87FAF3E37E}: Format(In/Out)=(NV12,0x3231564e) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_BOBVerticalStretch


could that "Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,2)" be the cause of my interpolation problems in any case?

[secvensor]

And what into the account of optimization with Crossfire (2xSapphire_HD_7770_Vapor-X_Black_Diamond) ^^?

[xyndv]

madshi, thank you for this software. But I have an odd problem. I was seeing presentation glitches only in windowed mode and not in exclusive mode, and also not in EVR renderer. After changing some possibly related settings (GPU flush, queue sizes, separate device..) without success, I found that switching my image and chroma algorithms from Jinc 3 AR (or 8) to Lanczos 3 AR fixed the glitches. Also after further testing, I disabled the anti ringing filter on Jinc, and that caused the playback to be even more, extremely glitchy. I'm using: Windows 8, high end hardware with AMD GPU (latest drivers), 120HZ RR monitor + MPC-HC, ReClock. Rendering time is 0.07ms on both Jinc 3 and 8, with or without AR.

[Jong]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1612756#post1612756
Refreshrate is higher, so there shouldn't be any framedrops, just repeats, right?You are right, a higher refresh rate should lead to occasional repeats, not drops.

I tried your test clip and it worked fine here, but it's only 1 min long, so hard to be sure. Up to you, but you could upload a longer clip (maybe 10 mins). If you do I'd suggest adding an audio stream, even if it is a silent one. There is no audio track at all at the moment, which is, at the very least, unusual, could lead to unexpected behaviour in some players and stops tools like Reclock and Videoclock matching frame rate to refresh rate.

If you are seeing the same behaviour with more normal clips I'd suggest looking at the OSD just as the drops occur - do the buffers suddenly empty, suggesting something else might be getting in the way. For instance, I get drops every 7 secs, accompanied by emptying buffers, if I have GPU-Z running while playing video. Clearly it's polling of the GPU (maybe sensors) causes problems. But any rogue process could I guess cause problems. You could also try switching between H/W and S/W decoding, just to eliminate that as a possible problem. But I'm clutching at straws now, the first thing is whether you see these 3 min drops in 'normal' material, or only in this somewhat unusual test video.

[ajp_anton]

A little use complaint: I'm a bit disappointed by the loss of 1 feature: the ability to rename files for particular screen refresh files (60p, 23p, etc.).
Indeed, sometimes, even if videos are 24fps, I prefer to watch them at 60Hz, because there are short, and I don't need a change of refresh screen.Covered by my previous request for a keyboard shortcut for the refresh rate change.

[QQ]

i suggest using LAV decoder for best quality-unless you meant renderer instead of decoder,then madvr is superior because of much better image quality it provides.

No, I've meant the decoders which are available in madvr?

[konakona]

No, I've meant the decoders which are available in madvr?

they are standard ffmpeg libraries,just like if you would use ffdshow to decode i guess

[dimitrik]

Apologies for the noob question but I'm kinda stuck and hoping someone can offer some help.

I'm experimenting with MadVR but I'm having performance problems with dropped and delayed frames:

As soon as I open a video either a 720p BR encode or SD video encoded from DVD, MPC HC immediately shows 5-15 dropped frames and 1-3 delayed frames.

My system is an i7-2700K, 16GB DDR 1866, nvidia GTX 560 (factory OC) & SATA3 SSD. It should be able to handle anything, but I get dropped frames both with Jinc 3 (image+chroma) as well as Bicubic+DXVA.
Even if Jinc is too much for my PC, the 2nd combination should be easy to do perfectly.

My display is 1900x1200@60Hz and I get the same results with and without reclock (though I only tried reclock last night with default settings, so I may not have configured it perfectly). I also tried LAV filters with CUVID and DXVA to no avail.

When playing video, my card's RAM is running at full speed, though GPU utilization is at about 15% even with Jinc 3.

Can anyone explain what might be wrong?

[konakona]

Apologies for the noob question but I'm kinda stuck and hoping someone can offer some help.

I'm experimenting with MadVR but I'm having performance problems with dropped and delayed frames:

As soon as I open a video either a 720p BR encode or SD video encoded from DVD, MPC HC immediately shows 5-15 dropped frames and 1-3 delayed frames.

My system is an i7-2700K, 16GB DDR 1866, nvidia GTX 560 (factory OC) & SATA3 SSD. It should be able to handle anything, but I get dropped frames both with Jinc 3 (image+chroma) as well as Bicubic+DXVA.
Even if Jinc is too much for my PC, the 2nd combination should be easy to do perfectly.

My display is 1900x1200@60Hz and I get the same results with and without reclock (though I only tried reclock last night with default settings, so I may not have configured it perfectly). I also tried LAV filters with CUVID and DXVA to no avail.

When playing video, my card's RAM is running at full speed, though GPU utilization is at about 15% even with Jinc 3.

Can anyone explain what might be wrong?

if the amount of dropped/delayed frames doesnt raise after starting video,you are good to go,everyone drops frames at start of playback-just press ctrl+r to reset the counter.

[dimitrik]

if the amount of dropped/delayed frames doesnt raise after starting video,you are good to go,everyone drops frames at start of playback-just press ctrl+r to reset the counter.

Thanks. Unfortunately I'm fairly certain its dropping frames after the start as well. I have definitely seen the dropped frame number increase when upscaling SD->1080p using Jinc.
Also delayed frames is increasing during playback (starts with 1 and then goes to 2, 3 etc).

The low GPU utilization is also making me think that something might be wrong, I assume it should be above 15-20%?

[konakona]

Thanks. Unfortunately I'm fairly certain its dropping frames after the start as well. I have definitely seen the dropped frame number increase when upscaling SD->1080p using Jinc.
Also delayed frames is increasing during playback (starts with 1 and then goes to 2, 3 etc).

The low GPU utilization is also making me think that something might be wrong, I assume it should be above 15-20%?

i think gpu usage is good,my hd4870 has like 70% usage on double jinc upscaling-try increasing mpc-hc thread priority in task manager to high or so. you can also try increasing number of backbuffers in non-exclusive mode,and cpu/gpu queue.

[Jong]

First get good playback with basic (say bicubic) upscaling, then increase until you hit problems. Jinc for luma and chroma is tough.

Step back to bicubic for both and post a screenshot with MadVR OSD showing after playback has settled (say 30secs in to be sure) and after you have reset the counters. Play - settle - reset counter - leave for a while (maybe until some extra drops have happened) - grab screenshot.

When you get drops check if the buffers are emptying or not.

[konakona]

First get good playback with basic (say bicubic) upscaling, then increase until you hit problems. Jinc for luma and chroma is tough.

Step back to bicubic for both and post a screenshot with MadVR OSD showing after playback has settled (say 30secs in to be sure) and after you have reset the counters. Play - settle - reset counter - leave for a while (maybe until some extra drops have happened) - grab screenshot.

When you get drops check if the buffers are emptying or not.

my pc that is like 4 times weaker can easily handle 3-taps jinc ar on both chroma and luma upsampling,i think performance isnt a problem in this case.

[Jong]

my pc that is like 4 times weaker can easily handle 3-taps jinc ar on both chroma and luma upsampling,i think performance isnt a problem in this case.
Quite possibly, but still when there are problems it doesn't make sense to troubleshoot with souped up settings. If his bluray was interlaced for example it would have a BIG impact on renderering times for jinc. Not saying it's not possible but let's remove it from the equation for now.

[DragonQ]

if the amount of dropped/delayed frames doesnt raise after starting video,you are good to go,everyone drops frames at start of playback-just press ctrl+r to reset the counter.
Or when changing window size, or shifting between full screen and windowed modes.