madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[j82k]

On 2016 LG Oleds (not sure about 2017) HDR is messed up when using PC HDMI input icon. Not sure what the TV is doing with HDR in pc-mode but it looks as if it was using a wrong color gamut or something like that.

I haven't watched mad max in HDR yet, so I don't know how colorful it is but other movies will look desaturated and dull when using pc-mode HDR.

[Asmodian]

normally I have the PC input assigned as a PC on the television.

Changing this input to "home theatre" or anything else changes the colour tone of HDR content dramatically.

I have a 2017 LG OLED and you asking made me check, the difference is dramatic:

PC v.s. Home Theater icon used for the input on the TV, identical settings otherwise. Set to the same D65 white point. 538 nits, OLED 80, Contrast 100, Brightness 50, Color 50, Technicolor, Warm2 High: R=-8, G=-8,B=5, Low: R=0, G=0, B=-1.

HDR Home Theater:
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/asmodian3/e63d040e-d10b-4589-be2f-f43cb29f8a91_zpshr0lizal.png
HDR PC:
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/asmodian3/eaae82ed-f7a2-4d39-86e1-b54509724ea8_zpsnvqxy4ev.png

Damn you LG! :mad:

Which is the right setting?

Home Theater seems to have much better coverage on my TV. It is still mostly 4:4:4 but 4:2:2 shows up more than it does when set to PC, so there is extra processing that has some color blending. Good for video but not great for a monitor or precise chroma upscaling. :(

Edit: Neither mode is that great out of the box, the white point is pretty bad by default, at least on my TV. HDR content definitely looks better in Home Theater mode, even after creating a 3DLUT. I get a better 3DLUT for obvious reasons. :p

[cork_OS]

Without madshi, this thread is so pointless that I completely understand his absence.

[Asmodian]

What a useful post. :rolleyes:

[ryrynz]

madshi posted a new test release.


Got some notes to go with that? Just posting a build is almost pointless.

Oh.. those HDR options.. 0.0

https://i.gyazo.com/eb0a035cf28effdb66150ca686f770fd.png

Quick comparison with the previous madVR version shows this performing a better HDR downscale, colors are more natural and I see better graduation too with the default settings. Keeping it.

[jkauff]

I understand that HDR is the future, and that many of the most active members on the thread have already invested in HDR, but I hope madshi doesn't forget about us poor peasants who are still living in an SDR world.

I'm perfectly satisfied with the current madVR release, and can't think of any improvements it needs, but I got used to madVR getting more awesome for SDR with each release. ;)

[ryrynz]

This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.

[nsnhd]

Yeah, although I've to use DXVA to downscaling, HDR contents look fantastic on my SDR projector/monitor screens.

[oldpainlesskodi]

This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.

Indeed, and on my set (Samsung UE55KS8000 using HDR+ setting), with lumance reduction color space set to none, the tone mapping and quality looks very close HDR passthrough using the OS HDR toggle.

Amazing work indeed.

K

[Manni]

This is for HDR to SDR downscaling as I said.. And honestly if you can download HDR content even if it's on an SDR screen, you should.
madVR provides what's likely the best HDR to SDR downscaling available.. make use of it.

I am sure you meant purchase, rent or legally stream.

[Razoola]

I have always used 'Home Theater' to label my HDMI port on my 2016 LG E6. The lst lime I tried the 'PC' label I remember it could not do UHD at 23.976 / 24.

Going back to nvidia and 10bit vs 12bit. What I think is really needed is a nvidia driver hack to unlock 10bit for those of us who have a panel that can do both 10bit and 12bit.

[mclingo]

I am sure you meant purchase, rent or legally stream.

there is quite a lot of dowloadable HDR material which is legal, demos and the like.

[mclingo]

I have always used 'Home Theater' to label my HDMI port on my 2016 LG E6. The lst lime I tried the 'PC' label I remember it could not do UHD at 23.976 / 24.

Going back to nvidia and 10bit vs 12bit. What I think is really needed is a nvidia driver hack to unlock 10bit for those of us who have a panel that can do both 10bit and 12bit.


well now.. this post got me thinking about the colour output problem I have with my RX card and i've found something interesting.

I have an 2015 OLED, when I play movies I got blown out reds when no calibration is selected in MADVR, i've logged this as a bug.

I have found however that by calibrating my TV in MADVR to BT2020 with a BT709 curve it corrects the colours, to my eye anyway.

Whats interesting is that this happens on both my 2015 OLED and my 2016 samsung LCD.

What I found today was interesting though. I ithe BLURAY LABEL as it gives me access to motion processing which I find essential, PC mode greys out all motion processing.

If I set my HDMI output to PC mode this fixes the problem, colours are now back to normal in MADVR.

When I select HOME THEATER they are even worse than BLURAY.

I've no idea what this suggests, is there mismatch colour gamut match up on the GPU side or MADVR, no idea whats going on, hopeing MADSHI can unravel this when he's back with us.

[mclingo]

could MADVR be applying a higher colour gamut in calibration off mode maybe incorrectly, but then why does it not do this when my TV is in PC mode, all very odd.

[Robominator]

Is it possible to turn off image improvement on Madvr for nativ 4k Content ?

Only use madvr for the HDR to SDR for 4k ?

If yes , how ?

[sneaker_ger]

Profiles (in settings click "processing"/"scaling algorithms"/"rendering"->"create profile group").
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1271417#post1271417

[Warner306]

well now.. this post got me thinking about the colour output problem I have with my RX card and i've found something interesting.

I have an 2015 OLED, when I play movies I got blown out reds when no calibration is selected in MADVR, i've logged this as a bug.

I have found however that by calibrating my TV in MADVR to BT2020 with a BT709 curve it corrects the colours, to my eye anyway.

Whats interesting is that this happens on both my 2015 OLED and my 2016 samsung LCD.

What I found today was interesting though. I ithe BLURAY LABEL as it gives me access to motion processing which I find essential, PC mode greys out all motion processing.

If I set my HDMI output to PC mode this fixes the problem, colours are now back to normal in MADVR.

When I select HOME THEATER they are even worse than BLURAY.

I've no idea what this suggests, is there mismatch colour gamut match up on the GPU side or MADVR, no idea whats going on, hopeing MADSHI can unravel this when he's back with us.

Your choice of a BT709 curve won't help matters. Try setting this to 2.20. Read Asmodian's madVR Options Explained in the Software forum for more information.

[Warner306]

could MADVR be applying a higher colour gamut in calibration off mode maybe incorrectly, but then why does it not do this when my TV is in PC mode, all very odd.

When off, I think it assumes your display is BT.709 and 2.20. That could also be your problem.

[brazen1]

I don't even know why PC mode is included in displays anymore? I bet your red colors change so dramatically because when in PC mode, custom color calibration is defaulted to native. Also, HDR deep color settings prefer native.

[mclingo]

i dont have any calibration tools but when I apply the settings we think are correct its still way too red compared to the standard EVR renderer.

As i've said before, if I apply a BT2020 with BT709 curve what I get looks identical to EVR renderer, no idea why this is, it just is, I even bypassed my AVR and it made no difference.

Something odd going in MADVR with AMD cards, (i have no issues with my NVIDIA 1050 in the same machine with calibration off)

[Warner306]

i dont have any calibration tools but when I apply the settings we think are correct its still way too red compared to the standard EVR renderer.

As i've said before, if I apply a BT2020 with BT709 curve what I get looks identical to EVR renderer, no idea why this is, it just is, I even bypassed my AVR and it made no difference.

Something odd going in MADVR with AMD cards, (i have no issues with my NVIDIA 1050 in the same machine with calibration off)

You should at least know what a BT.709 curve is. Read Asmodian's guide.

[brazen1]

Why aren't you using DCI-P3 at 2.20?

[mclingo]

Hi, BT2020 is the only setting that gives me the correct screen colours, ALL other settings have been tried, none of them work, i think this is a bug.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdu32xdk72p5zjw/Screenshot%202018-03-25%2019.22.38.png?dl=0

[Warner306]

Hi, BT2020 is the only setting that gives me the correct screen colours, ALL other settings have been tried, none of them work, i think this is a bug.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rdu32xdk72p5zjw/Screenshot%202018-03-25%2019.22.38.png?dl=0

I meant pure power curve, not just 2.20. Try that. It probably won't fix anything, but that is what it's supposed to be.

[tyrindor]

I'm using a 4K OLED both as a monitor and HTPC. When I play 4K HDR content MadVR resizes all my windows and throws them into the top left corner after I close MPC-BE. I don't even need to fullscreen the video, just launch 4K HDR, closed MPC-BE, TV goes black for a few seconds and windows get resized/moved. Does not happen with 1080p content.

I have supported resolutions set to:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p59, 2160p60

This happens with stock MPC-HC with MadVR selected as well. Any ideas how I can fix it?

EDIT: It doesn't happen 100% of the time. I have to open/close it a few times sometimes.

I have always used 'Home Theater' to label my HDMI port on my 2016 LG E6. The lst lime I tried the 'PC' label I remember it could not do UHD at 23.976 / 24.

Going back to nvidia and 10bit vs 12bit. What I think is really needed is a nvidia driver hack to unlock 10bit for those of us who have a panel that can do both 10bit and 12bit.

Make sure you enable Deep Color on that HDMI input, because my E6 does UHD at 23.976 / 24 on the PC label. However, PC label absolutely ruins HDR on the LG E6, locks settings, and makes it look washed out. You also cannot get 4:4:4 without using the "PC" label. So if you are using the display as both a desktop monitor and an HTPC, gotta switch between PC mode and non-PC mode depending on HDR. It sucks, shame on LG for never fixing it.

[mclingo]

I meant pure power curve, not just 2.20. Try that. It probably won't fix anything, but that is what it's supposed to be.

i started off with that and was sure it was right, after a while I came to conclusion it was still too red so I moved to BT2020, i'm now questioning that decision again after comparing a new set of images I took from interstellar today, could be The Phantom Menace isnt a good movie to compare colour with.

I'll just go back to DCi-P3 with pure curve 2.20 for a while and see how it goes.

[maxkolonko123]

I'm using a 4K OLED both as a monitor and HTPC. When I play 4K HDR content MadVR resizes all my windows and throws them into the top left corner after I close MPC-BE. I don't even need to fullscreen the video, just launch 4K HDR, closed MPC-BE, TV goes black for a few seconds and windows get resized/moved. Does not happen with 1080p content.

I have supported resolutions set to:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p59, 2160p60

This happens with stock MPC-HC with MadVR selected as well. Any ideas how I can fix it?

EDIT: It doesn't happen 100% of the time. I have to open/close it a few times sometimes.

Hi,

I have had same issue what helped me was changing some values in registry keys, look here buddy

https://superuser.com/questions/453446/how-can-i-stop-windows-re-positioning-after-waking-from-sleep

read 3rd post, and let me know about the outcome :)

[tyrindor]

Hi,

I have had same issue what helped me was changing some values in registry keys, look here buddy

https://superuser.com/questions/453446/how-can-i-stop-windows-re-positioning-after-waking-from-sleep

read 3rd post, and let me know about the outcome :)

Changed the values, restarted, and sadly no go. I've had that tweak work in the past with other window resizing problems, had high hopes. :(

I end up deleting the entire configuration directory and restarting, which resulted in only 1 entry instead of 6 which was correctly set to 3840x2160. However it still happens, and even after another restart there is still only 1 entry there that is set to the correct resolution.

I'll have to try a direct connection and bypass my receiver to see if that's what is causing it, unless someone has anything else i can try.

[huhn]

i started off with that and was sure it was right, after a while I came to conclusion it was still too red so I moved to BT2020, i'm now questioning that decision again after comparing a new set of images I took from interstellar today, could be The Phantom Menace isnt a good movie to compare colour with.

I'll just go back to DCi-P3 with pure curve 2.20 for a while and see how it goes.

gamma doesn't change "color" it only changes brightness nothing else.

the bt 709/601 curve is not the gamma curve we understand it something not fully it give you something like an sRGB gamma curve not sure what why it should be used.

madVR doesn't care if you have a AMD or NVIDIA card. so GPU driver differences?

BTW. there is a content flag for HDMI content with nvidia user have full control over it this flag can change the way a TV behaviours.
could be something simple as this most TV have an option to disable this stuff.

and just to make that absolutely clear you will not get proper color without an calibration that's the why people calibrate there screens.

[foxyshadis]

I'm using a 4K OLED both as a monitor and HTPC. When I play 4K HDR content MadVR resizes all my windows and throws them into the top left corner after I close MPC-BE. I don't even need to fullscreen the video, just launch 4K HDR, closed MPC-BE, TV goes black for a few seconds and windows get resized/moved. Does not happen with 1080p content.

I have supported resolutions set to:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p59, 2160p60

This happens with stock MPC-HC with MadVR selected as well. Any ideas how I can fix it?

Details of TV, receiver, video card, general configuration? (I'm assuming latest driver.)

I had incredibly annoying problems like this anytime I needed to change resolution on Win10 1709 when I had a laptop with 1080 vs external monitor of 4K, Optimus setup -- Windows would transfer the main screen to the 1080p and then back to the 4K, screwing up everything. It also did that whenever the screen went in powersave move, a well-known problem of Win8 and up. But it sounds like you don't have a laptop, so I'm not sure what would be causing the transfer to low resolution and back. Any other screens show up in display settings?

[tyrindor]

Details of TV, receiver, video card, general configuration? (I'm assuming latest driver.)

I had incredibly annoying problems like this anytime I needed to change resolution on Win10 1709 when I had a laptop with 1080 vs external monitor of 4K, Optimus setup -- Windows would transfer the main screen to the 1080p and then back to the 4K, screwing up everything. It also did that whenever the screen went in powersave move, a well-known problem of Win8 and up. But it sounds like you don't have a laptop, so I'm not sure what would be causing the transfer to low resolution and back. Any other screens show up in display settings?

Titan XP connected to a Denon X7200WA connected to a LG E6 OLED. Using blue jean's HDMI cables for everything. Latest driver. Latest Win10 (only a month old install).

Still only showing 1 display config, not even a simulated entry, under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Configuration

Doesn't make sense, but it's super annoying having to resize my windows every time I watch 4K HDR. It even resizes steam, and my steam friend list, which is closed and running completely in the background.

[maxkolonko123]

Titan XP connected to a Denon X7200WA connected to a LG E6 OLED. Using blue jean's HDMI cables for everything. Latest driver. Latest Win10 (only a month old install).

Still only showing 1 display config, not even a simulated entry, under:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\GraphicsDrivers\Configuration

Doesn't make sense, but it's super annoying having to resize my windows every time I watch 4K HDR. It even resizes steam, and my steam friend list, which is closed and running completely in the background.


Wow, i have there around 30 entries :D

https://imgur.com/a/dMHL5

I did change a lot of them to match 4k resolution, especially low ones like 640x480 but yet still sometimes i got same issue like u, random windows getting shrinked and put in left top corner.

I thought maybe it was cause of my Onkyo amp is old and not support 4k resolution so something is messing up the system ( i use amp for hd audio, then tv for picture from pc), but looks like this is not the case

Would be nice to find some solution for it, cause know i dont even know what kind of entries i should have in the registry :/

[oldpainlesskodi]

Short update on my HDR situation - the convo above between tyrindor and maxkolonko123 got me thinking about reg entries, so...

I ran DDU and cleared all reg entries and rebooted and reinstalled the latest Nvidia driver, and without tempting fate, it has solved my HDR woes.

Go figure now the Nvidia HDR API and the OS HDR toggle look the same.

K

[mclingo]

gamma doesn't change "color" it only changes brightness nothing else.

the bt 709/601 curve is not the gamma curve we understand it something not fully it give you something like an sRGB gamma curve not sure what why it should be used.

madVR doesn't care if you have a AMD or NVIDIA card. so GPU driver differences?

BTW. there is a content flag for HDMI content with nvidia user have full control over it this flag can change the way a TV behaviours.
could be something simple as this most TV have an option to disable this stuff.

and just to make that absolutely clear you will not get proper color without an calibration that's the why people calibrate there screens.


i've almost pulled the trigger on a full calibration a couple of times, picture is so damn good on my OLED compared to every other LCD TV i've ever had i've just not felt the need.

Interesting about the content flag, that might explain why putting my TV in PC mode fixes the colour issues, it may disable the content flags,

No idea how i'd found out if this was the case though.

I'm now using DCI-P3 with pure power curve 2.20, think i'm happier with this now for most content.

[maxkolonko123]

i've almost pulled the trigger on a full calibration a couple of times, picture is so damn good on my OLED compared to every other LCD TV i've ever had i've just not felt the need.

Interesting about the content flag, that might explain why putting my TV in PC mode fixes the colour issues, it may disable the content flags,

No idea how i'd found out if this was the case though.

I'm now using DCI-P3 with pure power curve 2.20, think i'm happier with this now for most content.

What color issue you talk about ?

I have lg e6 oled and i cant notice a smallest difference in color between hdmi label and PC label/mode

RGB full 8bit in PC mode looks identical to me as YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit or YCbCr 4:4:4 8bit

[Manni]

Short update on my HDR situation - the convo above between tyrindor and maxkolonko123 got me thinking about reg entries, so...

I ran DDU and cleared all reg entries and rebooted and reinstalled the latest Nvidia driver, and without tempting fate, it has solved my HDR woes.

Go figure now the Nvidia HDR API and the OS HDR toggle look the same.

K

...which is precisely why DDU is the first step in the instructions I posted a few posts back re drivers upgrade. It's a pain and most of the times it's unnecessary but it's a good way to make sure that these kind of issues don't creep in.

[Razoola]

Make sure you enable Deep Color on that HDMI input, because my E6 does UHD at 23.976 / 24 on the PC label. However, PC label absolutely ruins HDR on the LG E6, locks settings, and makes it look washed out. You also cannot get 4:4:4 without using the "PC" label. So if you are using the display as both a desktop monitor and an HTPC, gotta switch between PC mode and non-PC mode depending on HDR. It sucks, shame on LG for never fixing it.

I don't have any HDR issues personally, I don't use the PC label on my HDMI input.

I do think however there may be issues relatd to the nvidia drivers locking some display modes to 12bit when the panel supports 10bit also.

[oldpainlesskodi]

...which is precisely why DDU is the first step in the instructions I posted a few posts back re drivers upgrade. It's a pain and most of the times it's unnecessary but it's a good way to make sure that these kind of issues don't creep in.

Yeah, lesson learnt.

K

[mclingo]

What color issue you talk about ?

I have lg e6 oled and i cant notice a smallest difference in color between hdmi label and PC label/mode

RGB full 8bit in PC mode looks identical to me as YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit or YCbCr 4:4:4 8bit


Which GFX card are you using?

I dont think its that anyway as that would also affect the EVR renderer, on mine I only get blown out reds in MADVR, no issues at all with other renderers, I think there is a bug with MADVR but only when using AMD RX cards.

[huhn]

how do you even get EVR to use the AMD HDR API?

[maxkolonko123]

Which GFX card are you using?

I dont think its that anyway as that would also affect the EVR renderer, on mine I only get blown out reds in MADVR, no issues at all with other renderers, I think there is a bug with MADVR but only when using AMD RX cards.

asus 1060 with newest nvidia drivers, didnt notice any color issues, just getting confused what shall i set in nvidia rgb or YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit ?

On hdmi label full range rgb is way to dark but the same settings over pc label looks like YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit on hdmi label, hope it make sense heh

[mclingo]

asus 1060 with newest nvidia drivers, didnt notice any color issues, just getting confused what shall i set in nvidia rgb or YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit ?

On hdmi label full range rgb is way to dark but the same settings over pc label looks like YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit on hdmi label, hope it make sense heh

NVIDIA cards dont have the issue I have with blown out reds, issue, only RX cards, I tested my spare GTX 1050 and it was fine.

Your issues suggest to me that your TV is invoking a a separate profile for each setting which is correct, you may not have noticed that one of them is set incorrectly, you may have set HDMI level to LOW instead of HIGH or vice versa for instance.. maybe?

[mclingo]

how do you even get EVR to use the AMD HDR API?

you cant, my blown reds issue is on SDR material.

[Sunset1982]

@madshi:

Do you know if madvr's madTPG works with the new autocal feature on the new 2018 lg oled tvs?

[Warner306]

asus 1060 with newest nvidia drivers, didnt notice any color issues, just getting confused what shall i set in nvidia rgb or YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit ?

On hdmi label full range rgb is way to dark but the same settings over pc label looks like YCbCr 4:2:2 10bit on hdmi label, hope it make sense heh

This was covered in great length over the past couple of days. Set it to RGB to avoid color conversions and the loss of chroma upscaling when anything besides 4:4:4 is sent.

[tyrindor]

Short update on my HDR situation - the convo above between tyrindor and maxkolonko123 got me thinking about reg entries, so...

I ran DDU and cleared all reg entries and rebooted and reinstalled the latest Nvidia driver, and without tempting fate, it has solved my HDR woes.

Go figure now the Nvidia HDR API and the OS HDR toggle look the same.

K

Wish I could say the same about the resizing issue. Just ran DDU myself and it still happens.

Ah well, at least everything works, gonna just have to learn to close windows before watching 4k HDR if I don't want them resized.

[ashlar42]

I've read the past few pages and, as a current plasma owner and most likely future LG OLED owner, I have to say you all managed to scare the hell out of me with all this HDR, 4:2:2, 4:4:4, OS HDR, NV HDR... jeez... stuff could get more complicated only by actively trying. :D

[ashlar42]

I've been doing further testing and managed to capture better screenshots (download and present them at 1:1 resolution) to exemplify my findings:

NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 10 bit) BANDING (http://www.helloutro.com/banding.png)
NV HDR triggered by madVR (output 8 bit) NO BANDING (http://www.helloutro.com/nobanding8bitNVHDR.png)
I clearly see the banding difference (look at the sky), but I don't understand why 8 bit is brighter than 10 bit. Do you know the reason?

[njfoses]

New Nvidia driver 391.35 is up.

[FDisk80]

New Nvidia driver 391.35 is up.

Yep, and still nothing done about broken Custom Resolutions.