madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[YGPMOLE]

I actually dont use MADVR refresh rate switching as there is a bug with AMD cards with it

No problems at all here: clean instal of Win 10 x64 1809, last madVR and LAV Filters, AMD RX 480 Nitro+ 8GB and last AMD driver.

Only difference, this driver appears to be a little bit darker than the previous on the desktop, like the brightness level is minor.

Nothing better than a format to solve all the problems: at the end, you will lose less time than try to understand where the issues come from, and what causes them, and you are certain that nothing is related to the previous installation and/or unclean driver unistall.

[mclingo]

No problems at all here: clean instal of Win 10 x64 1809, last madVR and LAV Filters, AMD RX 480 Nitro+ 8GB and last AMD driver.

Only difference, this driver appears to be a little bit darker than the previous on the desktop, like the brightness level is minor.

Nothing better than a format to solve all the problems: at the end, you will lose less time than try to understand where the issues come from, and what causes them, and you are certain that nothing is related to the previous installation and/or unclean driver unistall.

Hi, the refresh rate swithing bug is a minor issue and you'll only see it in one circumstance.

You will only see it when you stop playing a 1080p 3D MVC movie where it drops back to a 4K KODI DS gui or 4K desktop GUI if you are using MPC-BE or MPC-HC.

if you put your desktop in 1080p mode first before starting the movie is works fine, the bug seems to be MADVR cant go from 1080p to 3840 with 3D, it can go the other way fine as the movie starts and plays fine.

I've had this for a long time through two clean installs of windows and on two different machines, it only does it with MADVR refresh rate switching, if I use KODI or MPC refresh rate switching its fine so I know its a MADVR bug.

[SamuriHL]

I wonder if it's an order thing where it tries to change the res first then turn off 3d and it breaks because 4k 3d didn't work.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[mclingo]

could be yeah, genuinely no idea though, that it works if my TV is in 1080p mode suggests MADVR is doing something wrong with the 1080p to 4k switch back but MADSHI says not and that its a driver issue, , dont see how it can be a driver issue if its only affecting MADVR refresh rate switching.

[nussman]

Or could be timing issue that triggers a driver bug only in this special situation? Or something different ...
Imho its not clearly a madVR bug like you are telling us over and over again. :rolleyes:

[mclingo]

the special situation seems to simply be MADVR :)

[brazen1]

I don't think so. Using nVidia there has never been a refresh rate/resolution switching problem when exiting 3D. It must be your preference in GPU's and/or its drivers.

That said, this was an issue with KODI v.18 (a beta development) as I've reported many, many times. Just recently I installed a new nightly after upgrading everything I use to latest offerings including both MPC players nightlies, LAV Filter nightlies, PowerDVD, Windows 1809, nVidia v.416.16, and madVR v0.92.17. The problem no longer exists. This WAS my only niggle with v.18. Now it's my daily driver. All this perfect with HDR, SDR, and 3D frame packed MVC.

[mclingo]

I tend to agree its something to do with the AMD chain, its just odd its only with MADVR RRS, I was hoping that MADVR was doing slightly something different to MPC and others and that MADSHI could at least point me in the direction of something that was doing wrong at my end.

Also, so few people use 3D nowadays that its hard to find anyone with the same problem.

[NoTechi]

That said, this was an issue with KODI v.18 (a beta development) ... The problem no longer exists.

I had an issue that only one external player was possible like half a year ago and switched back to Kodi 17. Looks like you got it working for multiple external player so I might give it another try. Are the playercorefactory.xml settings for external players the same as in 17?

NoTechi

[brazen1]

You might give FSExclusive vs FSWindow a try. If I'm not mistaken, your front end prefers FSW. Mine, FSE. Have you tried without a front end involved at all and run it solo through Explorer? This would allow you to try FSE and FSW without the front end preference interfering since it's out of the equation.

[brazen1]

There was also that problem months ago with KODI v.18. Subsequent playbacks using different players insisted to only use the player used on the first playback and didn't allow changing (manually or as assigned by default according to PCF.xml rules). That was addressed fairly quickly and has not been problematic for months thanks to the dev who fixed this (afedchin I presume). Yes, the PCF.xml is the same although with advancements or declines in all the components, my configuration is different. I encourage you try. I could use the feedback.

[Klaus1189]

... your front end prefers FSW. Mine, FSE.

Sorry, but I want always learn - front end??

[mclingo]

You might give FSExclusive vs FSWindow a try. If I'm not mistaken, your front end prefers FSW. Mine, FSE. Have you tried without a front end involved at all and run it solo through Explorer? This would allow you to try FSE and FSW without the front end preference interfering since it's out of the equation.

I've tried every combination I can think of, I need FSE to get 3D at all though, if I dont use FSW when any movie closes I have problems, If memory serves it drops back to little window 1080p in size on my 4k desktop.

I may spend some time looking at this again at the weekend, thanks for your input though, its appreciated.

[brazen1]

Yep, that was a KODI problem. And only v.18. None prior. I hate to say it, and not start any beefs but, DSP is getting outdated. Other things are advancing and if DSP doesn't advance with them, the other things aren't going to digress to accommodate DSP. If you really want to know if your GPU or madVR compatibility with it, or anything else is the culprit... just for testing (unless you come to favor it) try my method. Either it works or it doesn't. This may cure your 'red/magenta' problem too if it still exists, or any other gremlins. Provided you system image prior, reverting takes 10 mins or so should you choose.

Front end - the software you use to catalog and launch playback from. KODI is front end. JRiver is a front end. Windows Media Center used to be a front end. Etc.

[mclingo]

just had another look at this, tried a few things, few things of interest with win 10 1809. I can now get MVC 3D in KODI DS windowed mode every time no issues at all without FSE or windows mode in MADVR or KODI SD, ive never been able to do this before, this is new.

Problem with not using FSE though is that its not stable for me, when I stop a movie KODI drops back to none windowed 1080p screen on a 4k desktop, this seems to happen if I use KODI RRS or MADVR RRS.

EDIT

Tried KODI DS and MPC, still getting black screen on stop on 3D regardless of how I set this up, FSE / Window etc if I use MADVR RRS. What I did find though is I also get a black screen and loss of HDMI if I dont use FSE.

another thing I found though is that if I turn 3D in windows off then on again I can get HDMI back by doing a devcon reset, this required a reboot before, no idea what that means though.

The only stable method of 3D MVC playback stop/start with no issues is KODI / MPC RRS + FSE - this is 100% solid so I can live with that even if I cant use the prefferred MADVR RRS.

Nothing seems to fix the colour sat issue unless I turn off DIRECT3D11 or calibrate for BT2020, so no change there, I could setup a profile to turn this off though I guess but as calibrating for BT2020 just works i'll live with that.

[brazen1]

Since recently switching to KODI v.18 (now that it works fine regarding resolution change from 1080p to 2160p when exiting an external player), I am interested in a skin that works besides Estuary. I am learning some SKINS are prone to the problem and some are not. Aeon NOX 5 by silvo works. None of the Titans do. A few things are for sure, madVR is not part of the problem, nor is KODI v.18, any external players, or anything else and I suspect AMD and it's drivers are not either. I suspect KODI DSPlayer is behaving like a skin and more than likely the source of your continued resolution change problem. I wouldn't cement that statement until others confirm elsewhere. I am 99.9% sure madVR has nothing to do with any of it.

[mclingo]

ill probs go external again if KODI DS gets so old that something stops working.

Just wondering again about my colour sat problem, oddly it goes away when I set MADVR to 8 bit panel, if I leave MADVR on 10 bit panel but and set AMD driver to 8 bit or 10 bit it changes nothing, this seems odd to me.

On my OSD when i'm playing an SDR 8 bit movie, when MADVR is set to 10 bit panel D3D11 exclusive shows 10 bit and I have massive over saturation, when I set MADRV to 8 bit D3D11exclusive shows8 bit and I have no saturation issues.

why does it show 10 bit when its an 8 bit movie, Is the problem that MADVR thinks everything i'm playing is 10 bit HDR or as usual do I not have a clue what I’m talking about? :)

MADVR set to 10 bit panel:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8ii7GYWMS7_nRvPA

MADVR set to 8 bit panel:
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8jRMs5o-zY9SgcrQ

[nussman]

madVR uses a higher bitdepth for internal processing (16bit/32bit imho) and dithering to 8/10bit output.
So your colour sat problem for SDR content appears by sending 10bit to the driver? Imho this doesnt look like a madVR bug too ...

[mclingo]

this still doesnt sound right to me, MADVR should be reporting 8 bit for an 8 bit movie even if the MADVR is set to 10 bit panel?

[nussman]

Why? 8bit movie => 32bit processing => dithering to 8/10bit

[mclingo]

ah right, so if you set your panel to 10 bit it will dither an 8 bit movie to 10 bit?

[Warner306]

Nothing seems to fix the colour sat issue unless I turn off DIRECT3D11 or calibrate for BT2020, so no change there, I could setup a profile to turn this off though I guess but as calibrating for BT2020 just works i'll live with that.

I thought this color saturation problem was solved? Don't you remember this post: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1854000#post1854000

[nussman]

Sure, why not? But even with true 10bit panels dithering to 8bit (by madVR) is not a big deal.

[mclingo]

I thought this color saturation problem was solvedL]

It was mate, it came back when I installed win 10 1809, no amount of driver reinstalls fixed it this time.

its no big deal, its defeatable with calibration, would just be nice to know whats going on here. as its defo my PC as I've ruled out both my TV and AVR by bypassing them / using different units.

[Warner306]

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take you seriously, mclingo. You didn't mention what gamut your display was set to. Is the calibration issue at your display or somewhere else? You can't just post bug reports for days on end.

[blaubart]

More HDR testing, this time GTX1070 to a Sams. HDR TV - the opening Scene of the Chess HDR (https://4kmedia.org/lg-chess-hdr-demo/) Sample shows what only HDR can do - high detailed dark grey architecture behind a blazing bright person. I saw that at different HDR performances and it was impressive. Now through madVR set to "passthrough HDR to display" ("send Metadata.." on/off has no influence) most of the architecture vanishing in the dark. Tried "tone map HDR using pixel shaders", different nits, curves - background remains black-ish.

Next streaming the file to the TV - yeah! Everything there.
After lots of madVR on/off options I found the > properties > PC/TV levels. Set to 16-235 yeah! But - any non-HDR video needs here 0-255 for correct black/white clipping - tested, I swear.. ;)

What's more, the 16-235 also pulls up the white clipping to the right value. I already wondered before about too blooming HDR-madVR. If nobody finds here what I'm talking about I would be anyway happy about an option "16-235 only playing HDR". Thank you.

I will try now to attach a picture and if I succeed it will NOT show how it really looks like in TV. It is only a bad non-HDR photo but you might see a bit better what I mean.
Thank you ryrynz for host advice!

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/gw8f6o6psu5alet/HDR_dark_clipping.jpg?dl=0

[ryrynz]

Host the image some place else it'll take days to get approved here, not that I think it will help any.. I haven't seen anyone else with your issue.

[blaubart]

Hmm maybe it is a per video issue? Some HDR samples better here at 0-255. I found this (sorry German) thread (http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-253-695.html) saying they are all different some 400, 1000, 4000 nits, each one needs other presets..?

[huhn]

nits have nothing to do with the levels.
if the file is not broken levels are straight forward.

your screen shows a totally different blue on the madVR option screen which doesn't make sense because the level shouldn't have an effect on this.

16-235 is only correct for broken files and and a full range GPU set up with an end device expecting limited range.
Die Industrie verspricht uns für die Zukunft dynamische HDR-Verfahren, die die Helligkeitskurve bei jedem Bild an das Wiedergabegerät anpassen. Diese Verfahren heißen Dolby Vision oder HDR10+.

HDR+ or "dolby vision"* are not trying to match the end device they just have meta data per "frame" instead per movie. so this will not make the matching easier. it's better for compression and support even higher not really sane brightness. the end device is always tone mapping to there there capability with or with out HDR10+

* dolby vision can be static meta data.

[blaubart]

your screen shows a totally different blue on the madVR option screen

Different blue: only because in one photo the option screen was hilight (selected/oben) in the other not. Win10 Hi Contrast theme self made, sorry for the trouble.

The file is not broken: take some "HDR10 Calibration Patterns (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/2943380-hdr10-test-patterns-set.html)" play > HCFR\03. Near black&white\01. Near Black\Combined\
-> 01. Near Black combined 3sec.mp4

0-255 - the half sample (0-10%) I see nearly nothing then at ~ 16% I can read the letters.
16-235 - even 2% appears as it should be. Maybe madVR is a bit broken? ;)

[mkver]

I think there is something wrong with cropping in case upstream signalled cropping parameters in case of native DXVA2 decoding: Here (https://www.dropbox.com/s/qm2z82490s7dr0r/Matroska.Container.Cropping.mkv?dl=0) is a sample file with 80 pixels of black bars at the top and at the bottom and a white rectangle in the middle which is a square when viewed with the right (i.e. non-anamorphic) aspect ratio. If I play this with DXVA2 native in MPC-BE, the pin info is as it should be:

- Connection media type:

Video: dxva 1280x720 (16:7) 25fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_NV12 {3231564E-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 1382400
cbFormat: 112

VIDEOINFOHEADER:
rcSource: (0,80)-(1280,640)
rcTarget: (0,80)-(1280,640)
dwBitRate: 0
dwBitErrorRate: 0
AvgTimePerFrame: 400000 (25.000 fps)

VIDEOINFOHEADER2:
dwInterlaceFlags: 0x00000081
dwCopyProtectFlags: 0x00000000
dwPictAspectRatioX: 16
dwPictAspectRatioY: 7
dwControlFlags: 0x0000a581
- VideoChromaSubsampling: 5
- NominalRange : 2 (16-235)
- VideoTransferMatrix : 1 (BT.709)
- VideoLighting : 0
- VideoPrimaries : 0
- VideoTransferFunction : 0
dwReserved2: 0x00000000

It says that the rectangle with upper left at (0,80) and lower right at (1280,640) should be displayed with an aspect ratio of 16:7 (i.e. non-anamorphically). And with DXVA2 disabled, madVR does this (regardless of the setting of "automatically detect hard coded black bars"). But with DXVA2 enabled, it displays the rectangle with upper left (0,0) and lower right (1280,560) with an aspect ratio of 16:7. EVR and EVR-CP are able to crop in DXVA2 mode (if the crop values don't respect the subsampling, they might be off by 1 though), but if madVR can't, wouldn't it be better to use the following falback algorithm instead of the currently used one: 1. Calculate the pixel aspect ratio. 2. Display the whole, uncropped movie with this pixel aspect ratio.

[ryrynz]

@blaubart
No issues here, if madVR had a bug like this I think it would've been found long before now, maybe your screen has different level settings depending on content if that's even possible? That's the only thing I can think of.

[mclingo]

I'm not sure if I'm supposed to take you seriously, mclingo. You didn't mention what gamut your display was set to. Is the calibration issue at your display or somewhere else? You can't just post bug reports for days on end.


You appear to have misremembered the conversation, I told you I didnt have any BT2020 vs BT709 settings, I only had WIDE and NORMAL settings for gamut and I told you I had it set to WIDE only for HDR.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1854007#post1854007

[mytbyte]

@blaubart
No issues here, if madVR had a bug like this I think it would've been found long before now, maybe your screen has different level settings depending on content if that's even possible? That's the only thing I can think of.

Of course it's possible on every TV that allow you to manually force level settings or there are content presets like on Panasonics. I get proper levels output chain even if driver is set to output limited studio levels while MadVr outputs PC levels. (I suspect there are some precission losses in that case)

[ryrynz]

Wasn't sure if any TVs did that, although I knew it would be possible, just not encountered it.

blaubart if you set your GPU output to limited levels and madVR to 0-255 does it fix your issue and display properly for each content type?

[j82k]

@madshi
would it be possible to allow negative values for the "custom levels" setting, basically to cause some minor black crush??

The reason why I want to do that is that on quite a few UHD movies what should be black is just a hair above black.

Just to give you an example, every fade to black and also the credits of the UHD version of Red Sparrow shows RGB values like 1,0,1 or 1,1,1 or 0,1,0.
On my Oled in a pitch-dark room I can see this as a faint black glow.

When using limited range in madVR I can just set the custom levels to something like 15.5 to 235 but I would rather keep the whole chain in full RGB.

[blaubart]

blaubart if you set your GPU output to limited levels and madVR to 0-255 does it fix your issue and display properly for each content type?

Thank you guys for giving me some hope. Again testing the different Nvidia outputs. There is
RGB -> 8 bpc - limited/full
YCbCr 420, 422 and 444 - (limited grayed out)

420 - 8, 12 bpc
422 - 8, 10, 12 bpc
444 - 8 bpc

Ok only if I set to RGB output and then open the TV's picture menu the option "HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low" is switchable. "Normal" means 16-235 and the complete desktop now washed out. Nvidia output limited/full has no more effect cause TV's input is limited.

But now indeed madVR playing HDR "0-255" has correct black levels! But sorry I don't wanna live with a castrated TV forced to 16-235 8-Bit ! Would you?

[brazen1]

On a Samsung - what you are using - "Normal" is not 16-235. Low is. Normal is 0-255.

[Betroz]

I can sort of confirm what blaubart is saying here. I have an LG C8 OLED connected to my HTPC, and I must set Black Level to High in my TVs menu or else the image is way too dark in dark scenes. This is with SDR content too. Doesn't matter is I use VLC or Media Player Classic Home Cinema(MPC-HC). So it can't be a MadVr problem I think.

[mclingo]

on my LG EF950 OLED my chain is as follows - AMD GFX 4:4:4 FULL RGB 8 bit - MADVR 0-255 - TV "HIGH" - pretty sure this is correct.

Should be the same for HDR and SDR content.

[Betroz]

on my LG EF950 OLED my chain is as follows - AMD GFX 4:4:4 FULL RGB 8 bit - MADVR 0-255 - TV "HIGH" - pretty sure this is correct.

Should be the same for HDR and SDR content.

Yes, but Black Level = Low works well with my Panasonic UB820 bluray player with SDR and HDR content. Not sure why it is different with a PC connected.

[SamuriHL]

I'm guessing you have the UB820 set to YCbCr Auto, yes? That COULD be part of the difference. Maybe.

[mclingo]

Yes, but Black Level = Low works well with my Panasonic UB820 bluray player with SDR and HDR content. Not sure why it is different with a PC connected.


your UB820 will be sending a limted signed to your TV where you PC will be sending FULL RGB, hence the difference.

SamuriHL - sorry missed your reply :)

[brazen1]

Because a dedicated player uses YCbCr and a PC uses RGB. YCbCr does not use 0-255. It uses 16-235. This is why smart displays have an 'auto' setting. To detect the input and adjust the output. This 'auto' adjustment defaults to 16-235 on my panel. I think panels are programmed around dedicated players. So are 'devices'. This introduces the havoc we PC users face.

[SamuriHL]

To deal with that issue on your PC, you could set madvr to 16-235 (limited), the GPU to RGB FULL, and the TV to auto. It SHOULD show correctly in that configuration.

[huhn]

why should you even use auto if it doesn't work and just runs at limited.

0-255 - the half sample (0-10%) I see nearly nothing then at ~ 16% I can read the letters.
16-235 - even 2% appears as it should be. Maybe madVR is a bit broken? ;)

if you mean with madVR your end device yes could be.
for what ever reason is looks like needs limited range for HDR.

Ok only if I set to RGB output and then open the TV's picture menu the option "HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low" is switchable. "Normal" means 16-235 and the complete desktop now washed out. Nvidia output limited/full has no more effect cause TV's input is limited.

that'S not how it works.
if set your GPU to full range RGB it will send full range RGB if your end device like it or not.

[blaubart]

On a Samsung - what you are using - "Normal" is not 16-235. Low is. Normal is 0-255.

Please open a grayscale and switch between Normal and Low. The darker one is 0-255.
Using RGB it is easy to double the effect (not recommended) - set GPU to RGB "full" and TV to "HDMI Black Level - Low" resulting in "blacker then black" and "whiter than white".

@ all
Unfortunately TV manufacturers give their HDMI levels randomly changing phantasy names. The one that sounds somehow lower, weaker is mostly 0-255. To find out which is which a grayscale is helpful.
Unfortunately2, if everything is set wrong some +/- ticks at TV's brightness/contrast and covered.

Only the differences remain - e.g. if madVR is playing 16-235 at non-HDR (although set to 0-255) and playing real HDR in real 0-255. :p Yes beat me but to my excuse - the differences are somehow tiny..

[brazen1]

why should you even use auto if it doesn't work and just runs at limited.

I don't. I use RGB - 4:4:4 - 0-256 everything software and hardware.

[blaubart]

that'S not how it works.
if set your GPU to full range RGB it will send full range RGB if your end device like it or not.

Ok but it seems to work. The upper/lower digits are cutted. TV playing everything 16-235. Even the desktop (washed out colors) and even madVR playing 0-255 HDR.

[brazen1]

Have a read.

https://pcmonitors.info/articles/correcting-hdmi-colour-on-nvidia-and-amd-gpus/