madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

here: https://abload.de/img/linesnqs80.png

the black line is barely notable.

[aufkrawall]

But it still is notable. This is probably what has to happen when some line thinning and deringing is going on with this source.

[ryrynz]

I would think improving that would have big implications for the entire image. The line is better in ng1 anyway. Madshi may possibly add line darkening in future.

[aufkrawall]

The line is better in ng1 anyway.
Ever so slightly. Increased image size with NNEDI3 256:

NG1:
http://abload.de/thumb/ng1anuc6.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=ng1anuc6.png)

waifu2x:
http://abload.de/thumb/waifu2xsquot.png (http://abload.de/image.php?img=waifu2xsquot.png)

(This is of course not how it would look with true NG1/waifu2x upscaling to that size, but it should give an idea.)

What's more apparent is that weird bright pattern, but I'd be surprised if madshi wasn't aware of it.

[huhn]

the pattern is all over the image.

to bad that we can't separate Y, CB and CR using control+shift+alternate+F12 with a png screen.

[jerryleungwh]

Fair enough. Unfortunately I need more time, maybe a week, I don't know. I'll give you a little teaser, though, to ease the waiting. The new algo is probably going to be called "NG1" (next generation version 1). It's my own algorithm. It's not finished, but image quality will probably not change much, anymore.

original (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadOrg.png) -- | -- Jinc AR (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadJinc.png) -- | -- super-xbr 100 (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadSuperXbr.png) -- | -- NNEDI3 256 taps + SuperRes 4 (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadNNEDI256SR4.png) -- | -- NG1 (wip) (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadNG1.png) -- | -- waifu2x (http://madshi.net/madVR/AmericanDad/AmericanDadWaifu2x.png)

FWIW, waifu2x is much too slow for realtime use, I only added it as a reference point for image quality. I've picked this American Dad image because it shows big differences between the various upscaling algorithms. With natural images the difference is smaller.

I'll not answer any questions at this time.

The new algorithm looks really nice, I'd say the best comparing with the other pictures you provided, but I really doubt if I have a powerful enough GPU for it

[leeperry]

yeah amazing but is it a GPU hog?

[Betroz]

I honestly can't see any difference in IQ between NNEDI3 and NG1 images, or between NG1 and waifu2x for that matter, sorry.

[Sunset1982]

I honestly can't see any difference in IQ between NNEDI3 and NG1 images, or between NG1 and waifu2x for that matter, sorry.

you have to open both and switch fast between them to see the difference.

NG1 is sharper and have less artifacts/ringing. look at the eyes of the left woman. With nnedi3 you see a bit ringing under the eyes. With NG1 it is a lot cleaner.

[ryrynz]

but is it a GPU hog?

My expectations are around NNEDI3 128-256 neurons worth of hogging.

[thighhighs]

NG1 looks great, hope i can use it for 1080p screen with my gtx690\680.

[MS-DOS]

madshi usually improves the performance of all the features he adds to madVR as time goes by. Still, it would be interesting to hear about the current speed of NG1 compared to other algos.

[aufkrawall]

Maybe he is still optimizing and doesn't know yet. We can wait a few more weeks, can't we? :o

[Warner306]

you have to open both and switch fast between them to see the difference.

NG1 is sharper and have less artifacts/ringing. look at the eyes of the left woman. With nnedi3 you see a bit ringing under the eyes. With NG1 it is a lot cleaner.

That ringing is likely caused by SuperRes not NNEDI3.

[aufkrawall]

It's not caused by SuperRes, but boosted.

[YxP]

Wow guys stop creaming your pants. I'm as excited as you are, but daym. Nobody here knows anything about requirements or anything, except Madshi, who explicitly said he's not answering any questions.

[huhn]

i have to ask this:
https://abload.de/img/whyv10wspi.png

WHY?

[ryrynz]

waifux2 still looks best though. too bad, I guess its not possible to make waifux2 faster?

It really doesn't.. You just like the sharpness which is quite excessive. You could achieve a similar look by using sharpening after ng1. Waifux2 cannot be made to run in real time.

Nobody here knows anything about requirements or anything, except Madshi, who explicitly said he's not answering any questions.

We all read the post, no need to point out the obvious.

[YxP]

We all read the post, no need to point out the obvious.
I'm sure you would have lived a happy life without me pointing out the obvious, but sometimes a man opens his mouth and stuff comes out.

Alright alright I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be rude on purpose :)

[pirlouy]

You were totally right. Boring questions especially if you read "the obvious".

[ryrynz]

Speculation is entertainment, many of the posts you will find on all forums are such.

What I like about this new upscaler is that being solely madshi's creation he would understand it enough to enhance it over time whereas NNEDI3 is a done deal.
I wonder if NG1 was built from the ground up based upon NNEDI3 and also how long he's been working on it. We'll see how much info he provides about it when it's released.

[Ver Greeneyes]

2000 pages hype! ;) Also, NG1 looks great in that example, looking forward to seeing other cases and system requirements.

[Sunset1982]

can't wait to see NG1 in action. Hopefully my RX480 can handle it to upscale 108ßp to UHD. We'll see...

[HillieSan]

can't wait to see NG1 in action. Hopefully my RX480 can handle it to upscale 108ßp to UHD. We'll see...


I hope so.

[InstantAli3n]

i have to ask this:
https://abload.de/img/whyv10wspi.png

WHY?

How did you get that extended breakdown of the rendering stats? I can't find any way to see that. Just the overall with CTRL + J.

EDIT: Oh there's a guide http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

I just made a blank file named ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder and that enabled it. :) That would be neat if it had a shortcut like CTRL + SHIFT + J or something.

[kasper93]

@madshi: Do you plan, is it possible to optimize hue preserve option for HDR content? High quality option looks way better, but tanks performance. With some bare bone options it already hitting the 16ms mark. https://i.imgbox.com/rVty1gQZ.png I'm just curious, HDR content is probably still not something to invest much time.

[huhn]

may try a displaycal smpte 2084 3D LUT.

i don't know what settings are close to preserve hue. maybe render intent: preserve saturation.
it should be faster and "better" in general quality.

[kasper93]

@huhn: Exactly what I needed. Thanks for tip.

[Warner306]

How did you get that extended breakdown of the rendering stats? I can't find any way to see that. Just the overall with CTRL + J.

EDIT: Oh there's a guide http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

I just made a blank file named ShowRenderSteps in the madVR folder and that enabled it. :) That would be neat if it had a shortcut like CTRL + SHIFT + J or something.

+1 to adding this as a keyboard shortcut.

[Mistery 73]

a greeting to all, I need your advice from experts,
I upscalare 1080p to 4K in madVR image doubling is better to use NEDI or super -xbr sharpness 150? I have a video card gtx 1070

[kolak]

When can we expect HDR flagging on HDMI?

Based on this looks like it's possible:

https://developer.nvidia.com/displaying-hdr-nuts-and-bolts

[Asmodian]

a greeting to all, I need your advice from experts,
I upscalare 1080p to 4K in madVR image doubling is better to use NEDI or super -xbr sharpness 150? I have a video card gtx 1070

I like super-xbr 100 over NEDI but I like NNEDI3 more if you have the performance, I am not sure how the 1070 performs.

[fedpul]

a greeting to all, I need your advice from experts,
I upscalare 1080p to 4K in madVR image doubling is better to use NEDI or super -xbr sharpness 150? I have a video card gtx 1070

Hi, Mistery 73, following the recommendation from Asmodian I would say that you can use NNEDI3 easily at 32 Neurons with that card depending on the rest of your madVR config. If you want a cheaper option I would use super-xbr 100 or either super-xbr AB 25.

[Georgel]

i have to ask this:
https://abload.de/img/whyv10wspi.png

WHY?

Why do you have so many steps in there? I don't understand what you're trying to do or why...

My render report looks much simpler...

[Georgel]

It's understandable that waifu2 is still not within our grasp GPU wise, but some day GPUs will be strong enough to do it, and I guess we will see it by then!


That new algorithm looks amazing!

Can't wait to have it included in madVR!

Great job madshi! Love the difference in the results!!!

http://i.imgur.com/4LoWrve.jpg

[huhn]

Why do you have so many steps in there? I don't understand what you're trying to do or why...

My render report looks much simpler...

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1785252&postcount=39994

[nevcairiel]

When can we expect HDR flagging on HDMI?

Based on this looks like it's possible:

https://developer.nvidia.com/displaying-hdr-nuts-and-bolts

madshi usually doesn't like vendor-specific solutions, but with Microsoft dragging their feet with a generic thing, maybe he might make an exception.
It seems to be a combination of NvAPI extensions to signal metadata, and the new (or rather, re-defined) fp16 surfaces for floating point HDR video samples (as defined by Microsoft, so that part is cross-vendor, hopefully).

Definitely looking forward to proper HDR pass-through in 2017. :)
If only HDMI 2.0 would have allowed for 4K, 444, 10-bit. When do we get a new one that does that?

[Mistery 73]

I like super-xbr 100 over NEDI but I like NNEDI3 more if you have the performance, I am not sure how the 1070 performs.

thanks for the advice .... then in image doubling imposed NNEDI 32 neurons and how should I set chroma upscaling NNEDI 3 64 neurons and superRes 4?

[leeperry]

I'm contemplating getting a BenQ EX3200R when it'll be out very soon, long story short Windows 1DLUT's when outputting 8bit from mVR killed dynamics but this becomes a non-issue when outputting 10bit from mVR I presume? The windows desktop LUT will be applied in 10bit as well?

I can't seriously be hassled to build 3DLUT's, I prefer to go with a general D65 windows CLUT and map gamuts with a PS script using PotP profiles based on resolution and/or framerate.

My expectations are around NNEDI3 128-256 neurons worth of hogging.

that good ole crystal ball huh.

[Mano]

i read guide about setting up madvr and lav. Most guide tell me to disable all the source filter but doing so my mpc can't open h265 file anymore (or i get audio relapse for video with flac audio).

http://i.imgur.com/Dgsmj17.png

Is there anything wrong with my set up or it is a normal thing?

[huhn]

just leave all activated. using external or internal lavfilter doesn't really matter.

[Warner306]

a greeting to all, I need your advice from experts,
I upscalare 1080p to 4K in madVR image doubling is better to use NEDI or super -xbr sharpness 150? I have a video card gtx 1070

I'd go with super-xbr. NEDI is too soft/blurry.

With that card, NNEDI3 would be possible and preferred. Chroma upscaling can be set to something lower like super-xbr. Then you can use all of your resources on image doubling (32 to 256 neurons).

[fedpul]

thanks for the advice .... then in image doubling imposed NNEDI 32 neurons and how should I set chroma upscaling NNEDI 3 64 neurons and superRes 4?

Hi, for Chroma Upscaling I would recommend super-xbr 100 with SuperRes at 1 or even without it. I don't like using SuperRes in values higher than 2 because it becomes too aggressive. As always, it is a matter of preference.

[ryrynz]

Hi, for Chroma Upscaling I would recommend super-xbr 100 with SuperRes at 1 or even without it. I don't like using SuperRes in values higher than 2 because it becomes too aggressive. As always, it is a matter of preference.

I don't feel SR is worth it on chroma, better to just up the sharpness on whatever your using and save performance doing so in the process, which is why I settled on super-xbr 125 AR.
SR brightens/amplifies things up too much for my liking and doesn't appear to provide any truer reconstruction of the chroma. Of course I tend to watch more animated content and prefer bang for buck.

Super-xbr 100 AR SR1 vs super-xbr 125 AR.
(http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/190166)

Without SR1 in this image there's considerably less green in the text and no more bright edges but then this is scaled 800% and it's likely you wouldn't notice any difference anyway.
Chroma isn't really something you should waste a lot of resources on, it's just not worth it.

[kolak]

madshi usually doesn't like vendor-specific solutions, but with Microsoft dragging their feet with a generic thing, maybe he might make an exception.
It seems to be a combination of NvAPI extensions to signal metadata, and the new (or rather, re-defined) fp16 surfaces for floating point HDR video samples (as defined by Microsoft, so that part is cross-vendor, hopefully).

Definitely looking forward to proper HDR pass-through in 2017. :)
If only HDMI 2.0 would have allowed for 4K, 444, 10-bit. When do we get a new one that does that?

Thank you.

Feels like companies should abandon HDMI, move to DP as it can already do way more:)

[fhoech]

@madshi: Do you plan, is it possible to optimize hue preserve option for HDR content? High quality option looks way better, but tanks performance. With some bare bone options it already hitting the 16ms mark. https://i.imgbox.com/rVty1gQZ.png I'm just curious, HDR content is probably still not something to invest much time.

may try a displaycal smpte 2084 3D LUT.

i don't know what settings are close to preserve hue. maybe render intent: preserve saturation.
it should be faster and "better" in general quality.

Usually I would leave rendering intent at colorimetric for best results (despite colorimetric normally clipping, there's always HDR tonemapping for BT.2084).

[fedpul]

I don't feel SR is worth it on chroma, better to just up the sharpness on whatever your using and save performance doing so in the process, which is why I settled on super-xbr 125 AR.
SR brightens/amplifies things up too much for my liking and doesn't appear to provide any truer reconstruction of the chroma. Of course I tend to watch more animated content and prefer bang for buck.

Super-xbr 100 AR SR1 vs super-xbr 125 AR.
(http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/190166)

Without SR1 in this image there's considerably less green in the text and no more bright edges but then this is scaled 800% and it's likely you wouldn't notice any difference anyway.
Chroma isn't really something you should waste a lot of resources on, it's just not worth it.

Thanks for pointing it out. I can clearly see the difference.

[Georgel]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1785252&postcount=39994

I see

Does this help in any way?

http://i.imgur.com/1GmhkSq.png

EDIt:::

Seems those things are very different for different videos, but I'm still figuring out what they do exactly.

http://i.imgur.com/wwUkll8.png

[ryrynz]

Please feel free to use smaller images or cropping :rolleyes:

[huhn]

or links... and that there is nothing you can do about only the developer.