madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mr.duck]

No, not yet. The install/uninstall only registers/unregisters madVR for DirectShow usage. There's no "real" installer/uninstaller yet. Maybe some time later...

I will always prefer batch file install/uninstall than an installer. I like to go for portable apps where possible.

[cyberbeing]

What do you mean?

Taskbar != Tray

That is all I meant, since you said nothing in the taskbar, yet the tray is in the taskbar ;). If you remove what I circled in red below, the problem will be solved.

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/1381/madhcctrl.png

[CruNcher]

same here btw where is that Statistics OSD hiding i saw those madvr report messages so is their also a Statistics display with Render Information ;) ? ah ok found it in the changelog nice place to hide it ;) * added OSD (on screen display) with some stats, can be toggled with Ctrl+J (surprise surprise overwrites the default MPC-HC OSD)

Hmm the text is barely readable, couldn't the red text be not even more translucent madshi guess madvr is not only the name but more the state the user should be in after using it ;) :p

[Qaq]

For ATI graphics card company Cyberlink has used technology ATI STREAM to a Cyberlink HAM decoder, by analogy Nvidia CUDA(CoreAVC+CUVID), but it does not work bitstream (decode acceleration in UVD) for renderer madVR. Why ?
Just tried it - Cyberlink shows Bitstream. AFAIR, HAM requires UVD2, so you have to use it under win7 (maybe will work with mpeg2 under XP, not sure). Haven't compared HAM vs SW mode for CPU load though.

[madshi]

If you remove what I circled in red below, the problem will be solved.
Ok, got it. Already fixed in my work-in-progress sources.

Hmm the text is barely readable
Yeah, for now it's the way it is. I'll probably make it prettier in a far away future version. There are more important things needing my attention!

[ryrynz]

Why is that necessary when in the Playback/Fullscreen tab, MPC-HC has an option called "Launch Files in Fullscreen"?

Because it only launches files in fullscreen when you double click on the file in explorer, if you launch playback in the MPC window the screen does not resize automatically or at least it never has for me.

Controlling the size and state of the video window is the duty of the media player. If you want features that have to do with window size/state you need to ask the media player devs, not me.

I was kinda expecting you to say that, thought it was worth a shot asking here considering the work you've done in MPC so far, thanks.

[someone`]

Just tried it - Cyberlink shows Bitstream. AFAIR, HAM requires UVD2, so you have to use it under win7 (maybe will work with mpeg2 under XP, not sure). Haven't compared HAM vs SW mode for CPU load though.
I tested it .
HAM ~ DXVA , CPU load ~~ 80% --> 30% when play 1080p content .
But it has the same ATI DXVA's old bug , can't play L5.0 and L5.1 profiles .

[Qaq]

But it has the same ATI DXVA's old bug , can't play L5.0 and L5.1 profiles.
I can't say it's "DXVA bug", because you can set/use decoder to software mode and still get the same artifacts. So I think it's decoder limitation. Yestarday I had to use ffdshow decoder even for L4.1 profile with 12Refs for 720 video.
MadVR supports NV12 now, it makes using ATI stream possible as far as I understand. System should support UVD2,3 too, of course.

Just compared CPU load for HAM and SW modes. Found no difference. So there is no benefit from HAM with madVR IMO. Some minimal postprocessing maybe.

[4h4h270]

This will probably be fixed in the next build.

:thanks:In newest .49,I can edit settings,thx a lot~

[leeperry]

:thanks: for 0.49! No more error msg when opening the config panel, and it now takes a half second to open...delay's the same whether the tasktray icon is active or not.

I dearly hope to see some options to roll LUT's in there someday :p

BTW, I'm having a small issue w/ mVR & PotP: basically if I go from windowed to FS before the picture showed up, the picture isn't centered...a bit like this: http://www.pixelz.fr/a/d/8/c9fc38d5f734a84836158f70b1702t.jpg (http://www.pixelz.fr/a/d/8/c9fc38d5f734a84836158f70b1702.png)

I have to switch once more between windowed and FS to get it right.

It's hard to reproduce, and it usually happens after a reboot. I'll try to come up w/ a log.

[agustin9]

What settings?

With 11.1 everything was at default, and it was a nightmare.

With 10.6 everything is at default and it works.

I have a HD4850 and with 10.6 works fine.

With the newer drivers I experience lots of dpc latency.
I tried 10.12 and 11.3. All drivers with default settings

[mindbomb]

Just compared CPU load for HAM and SW modes. Found no difference. So there is no benefit from HAM with madVR. Some minimal postprocessing maybe.



i found quite a massive difference on my athlon x2 3600+, but i found problems with 1080p h264 video and vc-1 video, although vc-1 was in much better shape than the h264.
this on an hd 4350.

[robpdotcom]

I've always wondered, what are HAM and SW? I assume SW is software?

[WontonNoodle]

thank you for disabling the automatic LAN by default!

[Qaq]

i found quite a massive difference.
That's interesting. Do you use mach video processing in CCC? I've disabled everything including hidden options i.e. mosquito etc.
I've always wondered, what are HAM and SW? I assume SW is software?
There are 3 modes in Cyberlink 10 decoder:
SW - software
HAM - ATI stream
DXVA - you know
For madVR I found no difference with HAM or SW (no matter HAM reports "bitstream"), but since mindbomb found some benefit I'd like to see more results from different users.

[adam777]

Hello all,
I've tried searching the thread but could not find a definite answer.
What sort of performance can I expect (if at all) with madVR using Intel GMA HD (Core i3, Arrandale)?
Will probably use it most of the time to scale 1080p videos to 720p.
Thanks.

[namaiki]

Hello all,
I've tried searching the thread but could not find a definite answer.
What sort of performance can I expect (if at all) with madVR using Intel GMA HD (Core i3, Arrandale)?
Will probably use it most of the time to scale 1080p videos to 720p.
Thanks.
Hard to say, but you should be able to tell if madVR is dropping frames through the Ctrl+J stats.
My previous generation Intel 4500M is too slow to do what you have stated unless it is using the bilinear scaler. Using other scalers, it drops 12-20fps... The GMA HD is supposed to be about twice as fast, so even if it works performance would be borderline.

[nevcairiel]

The new Sandy Bridge IGPs can pull off a bit more then bilinear, but anything before that can only work with bilinear, all other scaling is too much for its shader engine.

In general, i would not recommend the Intel IGPs for madVR usage.

[mr.duck]

What if madVR had a software mode too? Same image quality, just using the CPU for doing some of the heavy lifting like the resizing if not for everything. Might be limited to just bilinear but could be worth it for people with Intel IGP setups.

[Mark_A_W]

Or just buy a proper computer.

madshi has enough to do already.

[mr.duck]

Just an idea. Not exactly high priority either ;)

[pie1394]

The recent Intel GMA still sucks!
I have a Dell NB which is the Core i5m in the office for work. With 1080p contents via MPC-HC64 + EVR-CP, it randomly gets BSOD. 10-bit or Floating-point color-space surface gets weird color images. With madVR, it only plays smoothly on hardware bilinear mode. But it results in big CPU loading w/o HW H.264 decoding acceleration.

My home mini-pc is Core2Duo P8600 + Ion 9300M + dual-ch DDR3-1333. It does not have the above issues.

With madVR + modes with Pixel shader, it is ONLY not fast enough to play 1080p24 contents downscaled to 1400x900. Yet the playback becomes smooth if the video image is down-scaled to 960x540.

If bilinear mode is selected, the playback with madVR is just as smooth as it with EVR-CP.


ps: Both systems are Win7 x64 SP1.

[chogster]

That's interesting. Do you use mach video processing in CCC? I've disabled everything including hidden options i.e. mosquito etc.

There are 3 modes in Cyberlink 10 decoder:
SW - software
HAM - ATI stream
DXVA - you know
For madVR I found no difference with HAM or SW (no matter HAM reports "bitstream"), but since mindbomb found some benefit I'd like to see more results from different users.

I'm also noticing a big difference using HAM rather than SW. HAM is averaging around 20-30% CPU usage compared to 60 - 80% on SW. The only problem is, I'm experiencing dropped frames using HAM?

[Qaq]

The only problem is, I'm experiencing dropped frames using HAM?
Please write more tech details about those problem videos, I'd like to test my setup with something similar. We have to share our experience. Some 1080i@30 maybe? Yesterday I watched 1080p@24 ~9mbps movie without drops.

[SamuriHL]

Please write more tech details about those problem videos, I'd like to test my setup with something similar. We have to share our experience. Some 1080i@30 maybe? Yesterday I watched 1080p@24 ~9mbps movie without drops.

I just started using the Cyberlink HAM decoder a few days ago myself and haven't had any dropped frames. My videos have all been 1080p but played at 60Hz as that's what my TV supports. AMD 5870, 7 64 SP1, MPC-HC 3015 msvc2010, lav splitter msvc2010, madVR 0.49, Cyberlink Video decoder from the PDVD10 2701 build, and ffdshow for audio bitstreaming. Haven't had any problems at all but I haven't played a lot of material yet, either. I think all has been h.264. One that's 720p scaled up to 1080p using madVR's scaling options.

[mindbomb]

I also had problems with HAM, most noticeably with 1080p H264, but also with 1080p VC-1. It may have been due to a lack of memory bandwidth or shader performance, as I was using a 4350.
Does HAM use the shaders or does it use UVD to decode the video?

[adam777]

Hard to say, but you should be able to tell if madVR is dropping frames through the Ctrl+J stats.
My previous generation Intel 4500M is too slow to do what you have stated unless it is using the bilinear scaler. Using other scalers, it drops 12-20fps... The GMA HD is supposed to be about twice as fast, so even if it works performance would be borderline.

The new Sandy Bridge IGPs can pull off a bit more then bilinear, but anything before that can only work with bilinear, all other scaling is too much for its shader engine.

In general, i would not recommend the Intel IGPs for madVR usage.

The recent Intel GMA still sucks!
I have a Dell NB which is the Core i5m in the office for work. With 1080p contents via MPC-HC64 + EVR-CP, it randomly gets BSOD. 10-bit or Floating-point color-space surface gets weird color images. With madVR, it only plays smoothly on hardware bilinear mode. But it results in big CPU loading w/o HW H.264 decoding acceleration.

My home mini-pc is Core2Duo P8600 + Ion 9300M + dual-ch DDR3-1333. It does not have the above issues.

With madVR + modes with Pixel shader, it is ONLY not fast enough to play 1080p24 contents downscaled to 1400x900. Yet the playback becomes smooth if the video image is down-scaled to 960x540.

If bilinear mode is selected, the playback with madVR is just as smooth as it with EVR-CP.


ps: Both systems are Win7 x64 SP1.

Thanks all, pretty much as expected :thanks:

[SamuriHL]

I think you may be on to something, mindbomb, with the memory bandwidth. This could be a case where it's not able to transfer the decoded frames back into system memory fast enough and is thus losing them. chogster and Qaq, what are you two running for video cards? I've got a 5870 on mine but I'm also, as noted before, only doing 60Hz with it.

[Andy o]

I have a 5770 and it also happens to me. Win 7-64, Catalyst 11.3, MPC-HC (one of the latest builds from xvidvideo.ru, no more than week old), MPC internal splitter, H.264 mkv's. madVR 0.49 of course. Trading quality for performance (all checked) doesn't make a difference, and monitoring in CCC says that GPU usage doesn't go very high (45-45%), and clocks are locked at 400GPU/900mem when using HAM.

[Andy o]

FWIW, I forced the clocks to 850/1200 with the GPU Clock tool, and it didn't make a difference. Still many dropped frames. It's not just a few, it's pretty bad, a few a second, sometimes several frames dropped at a time.

[pirlouy]

What if madVR had a software mode too? Same image quality, just using the CPU for doing some of the heavy lifting like the resizing if not for everything. Might be limited to just bilinear but could be worth it for people with Intel IGP setups.
madVR resize thanks to shaders (ie GPU). If you prefer CPU, then you can use ffdshow resize post-processing. :-)

[SamuriHL]

FWIW, I forced the clocks to 850/1200 with the GPU Clock tool, and it didn't make a difference. Still many dropped frames. It's not just a few, it's pretty bad, a few a second, sometimes several frames dropped at a time.

That's not so good. I really don't have any ideas on this one. HAM would be awesome for AMD users to be able to use, but, if it's dropping frames clearly that's not acceptable. Have you tried LAV Splitter at all to see if it makes any difference? (It shouldn't, but, I use it and that's one possible area where something could help...I really don't know.)

[Qaq]

I also had problems with HAM, most noticeably with 1080p H264, but also with 1080p VC-1.
Just tried:
1) 1080p@24 BD movie. Works fine, I see no problems.
2) 1080i@30 BD music show. madVR's OSD shows everything is OK, Cyberlink says everything is OK (zero dropped frames), but picture is noticeably stuttering. I've no idea what really happen.:devil:
It may have been due to a lack of memory bandwidth or shader performance, as I was using a 4350.
That's possible (I have 5450 512Mb VRAM). With same 1080i@30 video and EVR CP everything is OK. There is some gadget to check GPU usage, need to try it though...
Does HAM use the shaders or does it use UVD to decode the video?
AFAIK HAM doesn't use the shaders and requres UVD2.
I think you may be on to something, mindbomb, with the memory bandwidth. This could be a case where it's not able to transfer the decoded frames back into system memory fast enough and is thus losing them.
OK, but what about CUDA? CUDA's users should be affected too :)

[SamuriHL]

OK, but what about CUDA? CUDA's users should be affected too :)

Not using Nevcairiel's LAV CUVID. It's using the CUDA sdk to do hardware decoding and it performs some magic to get the frames back to system memory quickly. Using that on my bedroom machine, which has less CPU power than the average watch (LOL), I'm able to get perfect 24Hz playback with VC-1 and h.264 using madVR with all the trimmings. :) It works very well. I'm not able to do 24Hz on my AMD device as my main TV doesn't support it. But I remember a conversation between Nev and madshi that said that STREAM and CUDA handle decoding quite differently and that perhaps the memory transfer thing was a big difference. I really have no knowledge in this area at all so maybe one of them can give, you know, actual technical details rather than second hand nonsense. :) But I do remember them discussing that it's quite different.

[nevcairiel]

OK, but what about CUDA? CUDA's users should be affected too :)

NVIDIA cards are a whole lot faster when it comes to moving a decoded frame back to system memory.

[SamuriHL]

Ha, see! :D Someone who knows what they're talking about. I'm glad I wasn't completely off base or I'd have felt bad. :)

[Andy o]

Just tried:
1) 1080p@24 BD movie. Works fine, I see no problems.
2) 1080i@30 BD music show. madVR's OSD shows everything is OK, Cyberlink says everything is OK (zero dropped frames), but picture is noticeably stuttering. I've no idea what really happen.:devil:

I think your problem is different, cause I get the stuttering at 24. madVR is finicky with interlaced content, at least in my machine. What refresh rate are you using for the 24p and for the 30i? Are you sure this doesn't happen also when using software decoding, or better, test with ffdshow?

[Qaq]

NVIDIA cards are a whole lot faster when it comes to moving a decoded frame back to system memory.
OK, thanks. Last thing is left to close that "HAM case" is to know that is hardware (not software) limitation. No need to bother AMD to fix the driver, right? :)

[Qaq]

madVR is finicky with interlaced content, at least in my machine.
I'm pretty sure Cyberlink gives to madVR already deintelaced stream. But since HAM is useless with madVR it doesn't matter now.
What refresh rate are you using for the 24p and for the 30i?
I use to switch RR manually for each video. For 24p I use "23" and for 30i I have to set not 59 but 29Hz (because my AVR loves "to drop frames" for RR>30. Just loose the sync with video). 29 works fine with 30i if I use Cyberlink/EVR CP, BTW.
Are you sure this doesn't happen also when using software decoding, or better, test with ffdshow?
I don't really care. If HAM is useless with madVR I just go back to EVR CP for "heavy" videos. I mean EVR CP + shaders from JanWillem32 of course.

[noee]

OK, thanks. Last thing is left to close that "HAM case" is to know that is hardware (not software) limitation. No need to bother AMD to fix the driver, right? :)

I asked madShi about this a little while back somewhere and, IIRC, he seemed to think it was not a hw issue but most likely a driver issue.

[Andy o]

I don't really care. If HAM is useless with madVR I just go back to EVR CP for "heavy" videos. I mean EVR CP + shaders from JanWillem32 of course.

Well if the stuttering on the 30i content happens with software decoding as well (like it does to me), it means it's not the same problem mindbomb and I, and possibly chogster (he didn't specify what content) are having, and it's not a HAM problem.

[someone`]

HAM + madVR + reclock + Powerstrip , not a single frame drop and no stutter occurs . Hopefully Cyberlink will fix the high profile bug then everything is perfect .

[SamuriHL]

HAM + madVR + reclock + Powerstrip , not a single frame drop and no stutter occurs . Hopefully Cyberlink will fix the high profile bug then everything is perfect .

What splitter? I don't necessarily think the splitter has much to do with this problem, but, I'm just curious as to what people are using who have/don't have problems so if we can see some kind of pattern emerge. It's unlikely, but, the info doesn't hurt.

[someone`]

I use Haali . I think the problem is driver related , when I use other drivers i can't play 1080p content with madVR ; software or HAM decoder .

[SamuriHL]

Lovely. I'm using the 11.4 preview driver if that helps anyone.

[chogster]

Just out of curiosity I’ve installed LAV splitter and the problematic dropped frames still persist. All tested playback is with 24p MKV files, not tried any 1080i, but I’m not sure if H264 content is worse than VC-1?
Using HAM with EVR CP produces normal playback, smooth & free from stutter on my HD5450 (512MB).
Looks like a HAM/madVR compatibility issue?

[Andy o]

Yeah, I tried LAV splitter and no difference. I also installed the 11.4 preview.

[SamuriHL]

Awesome. Well, so much for that idea unless madshi has any brilliant ideas. :(

[Andy o]

Hmm actually I'm not having trouble with interlaced content as I said before at AVS (still having it sometimes with madVR but that's not a CPU power issue). I think I tested those before I put the C2Q in and took the C2D out. I would be lost without multithreaded decoders though.

[SamuriHL]

ffmpeg-mt should work for decoding, no?