madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Tarzan]

This Wednesday I am finally getting a projector with lens memory function (jvc x35) and I am now making different profiles according to aspect ratios. However I wonder whether madvr after playback automatically changes the lens memory back to the whatever it was before playback.

Example:
I use memory 1 for viewing the windows desktop in 16:9. A cinemascope movie is started and madvr activates lens memory 2. After playback, will madvr be stuck on memory 2, or will it change back to memory 1?

Yes I know, I could wait until Wednesday, but I'm curious.

[LexSfX]

Nearest neighbor was only ever there to demonstrate how bad it is. I never intended anybody to actually use it. Why would you prefer it over other scaling options?

Try super-xbr or the new NGU pixart test builds. They should make your TASvideos look much better.

I guess you don't understand. Seeing the individual pixels is important in watching retro speed runs; especially tool-assisted speed runs, as pixel-perfect play is common there. I don't want a blurry image or distorted-shaped pixels when upscaling such videos. Also, I agree that nearest-neighbor is relatively bad, as my post explained. The algorithm I linked to in my post is a superior algorithm to nearest neighbor, as it hides the misshapen-pixels problem nearest neighbor has without eliminating its crystal clarity.

Unless loading custom shader presets such as those at https://github.com/libretro/slang-shaders and https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders is added, I may have to stick with madVR v0.93.1 indefinitely. Actually, that would be an awesome idea. There are tons of awesome shader presets there that would be nice to use in a media player.

[kalston]

I guess you don't understand. Seeing the individual pixels is important in watching retro speed runs; especially tool-assisted speed runs, as pixel-perfect play is common there. I don't want a blurry image or distorted-shaped pixels when upscaling such videos. Also, I agree that nearest-neighbor is relatively bad, as my post explained. The algorithm I linked to in my post is a superior algorithm to nearest neighbor, as it hides the misshapen-pixels problem nearest neighbor has without eliminating its crystal clarity.

Unless loading custom shader presets such as those at https://github.com/libretro/slang-shaders and https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders is added, I may have to stick with madVR v0.93.1 indefinitely. Actually, that would be an awesome idea. There are tons of awesome shader presets there that would be nice to use in a media player.

In the shortcuts section, you can make keybinds to enable nearest neighbour for chroma & luma (even with the latest version). This is what I do when I want to use it (which is not often and mostly for testing purposes). Maybe that would be good enough for you?

[LexSfX]

I am guessing "luma" here is "image upscaling". You're saying "keyboard shortcuts" contains an "image upscaling algorithm - set to 'Nearest Neighbor'" entry, even after the version that removed the radio button selection for it from the GUI? If so, thanks for the info. I'll check that out when I have a reason to update.

Also, why do you seem so embarrassed about using nearest neighbor that you have to write "which is not often and mostly for testing purposes"? Nearest neighbor is the only truly sharp algorithm provided by madVR for low-res pixel art video (256×224, for example). There are better shader presets for non-integer upscaling like "anti-aliased nearest neighbor", "pixellate", and "sharp bilinear", but madVR has never provided any of those so nearest neighbor will have to do. There's no shame in wanting to use nearest neighbor for some video content, to be able to inspect the pixels clearly. Nearest neighbor is perfect for integer upscaling, too. I don't see an option in madVR for that though.

[kalston]

Yes the "luma upscaling" wording has been changed to "image upscaling" now but that is what I mean. And I have made shortcuts for those in the latest madVR version so yes it still works (even though it has been removed from other places in the GUI).
https://i.imgur.com/xIbysPX.png
Mind you it will reset to your settings from the "scaling algorithm" section when you close madVR. Not a problem for me but if you need to have it enabled by default it's not an ideal solution.

And I'm not "ashamed" of using it :p It's simply not very often that I want to. I mean, I mostly use madVR to watch blu-rays upscaled to 1440p so it wouldn't really do much good for that purpose :)

[Mistery 73]

Display rate changer? Simple profile stuff, you know this?

not all are born learned you know that?

[Razoola]

Is there any reason why with the following in madvr's monitors display properties, it will select 2160p30 for 25hz material?

2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30

If I remove 2160p30 then it will choose 2060p29 fullscreen, only after I remove 2160p29 also will it correctly set the refresh rate to 2160p25.

[ryrynz]

Probably best looking at the properties of the file and making sure it's reported as 25fps to madVR. Check CTRL-J.

[Damien147]

@Razoola

Tranfa user here has similar problem,try to add 2160p50 if you have 50hz option.

[tranfa]

@Razoola

Tranfa user here has similar problem,try to add 2160p50 if you have 50hz option.

Yes, 100% the same problem.

I enclosed my logs a couple of pages before this one.

[tranfa]

Probably best looking at the properties of the file and making sure it's reported as 25fps to madVR. Check CTRL-J.

In my case the answer is yes, CTRL-J reports the correct fps.

[Damien147]

If you had 50hz option problem was gonna get solved.I reproduced it.

[Damien147]

@tranfa

It seems that someone reported it (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=472).I guess you have to be patient.
I'm waiting too for the dxva2(native)10 bit HEVC black screen to be fixed cause I can't play high bitrate 10 bit HEVC.DXVA2(copyback) is a slideshow with 10 bit HEVC.Non 10 bit HEVC play fine with DXVA2(copyback) and the weird is that my GPU supposedly can handle it.For now only option is EVR(CP) but luckily I am fine with 20GB movie which I can handle with software decoding.
Seems that I can go till 10bit HEVC ~50Mbps for now with software but I am on the edge,not bad.:)

[HillieSan]

I have more succes with DXVA (native), EVR and potplayer. MPC BE/HC show judder.

[Damien147]

I have more success with DXVA2 (native) too in general but with Madvr(and 10 bit HEVC ) I get black screen.About the judder smooth motion in Madvr doesn't go well with you?

[huhn]

not everyone has the same issue so it is not 100% clear this is a madVR issue.

high CPU usages doesn't make a lot of sense with copyback. it's not like the copy back for 10 bit images is a lot bigger/harder than 8 bit.
and no the codec doesn't matter with copyback.

[Damien147]

The thing is that I can't use DXVA2 with everything in general using Madvr.Copyback was gonna be the best thing but for some reason my system can't handle it with 10bit HEVC,too slow.Others with same GPU can handle it.:confused:So...only software decoding for now.For the 99% of situations I'm fine,so no big deal.It's not an everytime/day problem.
Three more here with AMD rx4x0 reproduced the 10bit HEVC dxva2(native) black screen.We all four had normal playback with EVR(CP).
If I get worst PQ with dxva2(native) I ain't gonna use that though.(oh boy...someone's gonna shoot me.:eek::scared:)



I have an old cpu(i5 760 oced 3800) which performance wise is like i5-2400(Sandy Bridge).My gpu(rx470) can handle 10bit hevc with DXVA2(copyback) as other users here report but I can't.Could it be a bottleneck from cpu for some reason?Some instruction missing or something?I don't get high cpu load with DXVA2(copyback) to see the ''bottleneck'' if it exists but 10 bit HEVC is slideshow.

[baii]

Is there any way to check that 10bit got enabled apart from mVR's OSD? Test patterns maybe? That's what this guy does (http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung/ku6500):

AMD 4x0's support HDMI 2.0b so I don't see why 2160p60 would be an issue, eventually my goal is to go 3x720p@60Hz with FRC :devil:

You can use the grey scale gradient(or the ring test file) that people use to check for Photoshop 10bit path. Turn off dithering and if everything is running 10bit(including the panel,native or FRC), it will be smooth. No card do 4k60 at 10bit now though. So you probably need to use 4k30.

[HillieSan]

I have more success with DXVA2 (native) too in general but with Madvr(and 10 bit HEVC ) I get black screen.About the judder smooth motion in Madvr doesn't go well with you?

I have same problem you have. Black screen happens with madvr since the NGU pixelart update. Previously 4K 10 bits worked fine with madvr with MPC HC/BE. With EVR (cp) I get judder in MPC BE and HC. This was always the case. But now, only potplayer seems to be smooth with EVR. Black screen with madvr. Something changed in madvr.

[Damien147]

I think that I've seen black screen before the version you say but back then I think that I thought that it was video issue and ignored.

[HillieSan]

I think that I've seen black screen before the version you say but back then I think that I thought that it was video issue and ignored.

What player are you using? I had issues with some players. MPC HC was the best for a long time. MPC BE had some issues. After these issues were fixed I used MPC BE a lot because it a bit was faster than MPC HC. Potplayer was also fast, but it had freezing issues. These are fixed now, I think.

I haven't updated MPC HC and now I experience black screens with madvr pixelart and 4K. In the mean time I have updated the AMD drivers a few times.

[Damien147]

Using latest official MPC HC with 0.69 lav and latest gpu drivers.It seems that the black screen affects only AMD users.You get black screen specifically when playing 10bit HEVC with DXVA2(native)and Madvr.Nvidia side all good.

[aufkrawall]

And probably chroma-blurry.

[HillieSan]

Using latest official MPC HC with 0.69 lav and latest gpu drivers.It seems that the black screen affects only AMD users.You get black screen specifically when playing 10bit HEVC with DXVA2(native)and Madvr.Nvidia side all good.

What happens if you use madVR v0.91.0?

[Damien147]

And probably chroma-blurry.

DXVA2(native) causes that?


What happens if you use madVR v0.91.0?

Same thing.

[leeperry]

You can use the grey scale gradient(or the ring test file) that people use to check for Photoshop 10bit path. Turn off dithering and if everything is running 10bit(including the panel,native or FRC), it will be smooth. No card do 4k60 at 10bit now though. So you probably need to use 4k30.
OK, thanks! Apparently 2160p60@10bit is possible with HDMI2.0b, but only in 4:2:0 but then again most TV's turn off all fancy features(BFI etc) when going full chroma.....but FWIR only nvidia allows this kludge? Oh well, too bad TV's don't come with displayport, hopefully at some point this half-arsed situation will settle down.

[nevcairiel]

OK, thanks! Apparently 2160p60@10bit is possible with HDMI2.0b, but only in 4:2:0 but then again most TV's turn off all fancy features(BFI etc) when going full chroma.....but FWIR only nvidia allows this kludge? Oh well, too bad TV's dont come with displayport, hopefully at some point this half-arsed situation will settle down.

HDMI 2.1 was already announced with more bandwidth then any current DisplayPort, but it'll take until 2018 at least for the first devices to support it, if not longer.

[HillieSan]

Same thing.

I know that AMD changed something with DXVA in the previous driver. I would wait for the next driver.

[tranfa]

@tranfa

It seems that someone reported it (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=472).I guess you have to be patient.



Solved, thanks to this debug report.

Actually, Madshi's comment about wrong configuration was enlighting:
"1) You only have 60fps, 72fps and 75fps in the display mode list. At the same time you have deinterlacing turned *on* and forced film mode turned *off*. Which IMHO classifies as a bad configuration. Let's say you actually played a natively interlaced PAL video with this setup, there's no good refresh rate that could be used! I don't really understand your setup. It seems you're thinking that you don't ever need video mode deinterlacing. If that's the case then your list of refresh rates is ok, but then you should turn deinterlacing off or switch it to film mode. If you do that, madVR should switch to 75fps just fine."

Once turned deinterlacing off, instead of leaving it in the "automatically activate deinterlacing when needed" status (which if I'm not mistaken is the default), the display modes assignment started to work perfectly as expected.

Thank you all!

[baii]

Did a quick check but didnt find it, is there a shortcut to toggle device gamma processing? my bt1886 3dlut work fine for most content,but some seem to like power 2.2 more to be watchable.

[huhn]

you can add a hotkey to a profile.

[Damien147]

I know that AMD changed something with DXVA in the previous driver. I would wait for the next driver.

Ok,clean install next time and lets see.:)


@tranfa

Took you some time but all good now,happy playback.:p :)




I bump this:
I have an old cpu(i5 760 oced 3800) which performance wise is like i5-2400(Sandy Bridge).My gpu(rx470) can handle 10bit hevc with DXVA2(copyback) as other users here(with same GPU) report but I can't.Could it be a bottleneck from cpu for some reason?Some instruction missing or something?I don't get high cpu load with DXVA2(copyback) to see the ''bottleneck'' if it exists but 10 bit HEVC is slideshow.


any opinions what happens?

[aufkrawall]

DXVA2(native) causes that?

Yes, at least with 8 bit H.264. I'm not aware if anyone tested HEVC 10 bit for this, but it might be affected as well. Probably you will also get more banding with DXVA2 native and 8 bit video than with software/copyback, but dunno if this was related to just DXVA2 scaling or also decoding.

[Damien147]

I guess the only solution then is dxva2(copyback) but I don't get why others with same GPU have smooth 10 bit HEVC playback and I don't.:confused: dxva2(copyback) works well and smooth with everything except 10 bit HEVC where it's slow.
Gonna settle with software decoding and lower bitrate 10 bit HEVC if nothing happens.I don't have a compromise with everyday usage,all good.

[aufkrawall]

Good question. afair nev's copyback in LAV uses SSE 4.1, but your CPU already supports 4.2. Maybe an undiscovered CPU architecture flaw?
Or some platform specific problem with PCIe?
Just wild guessing here.
You could try a video player that supports native CUDA input, which is probably just one (better not name it here). ;)

[Damien147]

Yes,I have SSE 4.2 and performance wise I am like i5 2400S.
Mobo PCIe is x16 2.0.I can play battlefield 1 in 1920x1200 with 60fps+ on ultra.I don't have bottleneck while gaming and I have during playback?:confused:
Thanks for the suggestion but I am with AMD,I don't have cuda support.
Maybe it's the '' an undiscovered CPU architecture flaw?'' you said,I don't know.:confused:
I don't know if it counts but I tried passmark (https://www.passmark.com/index.html) the other day to see and compare with same CPUs and GPUs to see if everything works fine.I get good/similar score,it doesn't show a bottleneck anywhere.

[wasper]

madVR tries to avoid using DXVA processing if at all possible, because often the GPU drivers do fancy things to the video when using DXVA. Avoiding DXVA is possible when using film mode, but not when using DXVA deinterlacing, obviously. This is the cause of those color shifts. As huhn already suggested, check the GPU control panel. There are many options there. Probably one related to "dynamic range" or "content type" or similar might be responsible for this problem.

Ok, thank you, I figured out. Setting the video mode back to limited ranged fixed it. The output is still full range. I was mixed up between output range and input range. As DVD video are native limited range, I'm pretty much sure I'm fine! I'll try to find a full range video to see if it's working fine also in that case.


madVR currently only supports film mode or DXVA deinterlacing. DXVA deint is *not* video mode. It's a black box. madVR sends the interlaced frames/fields into DXVA and gets progressive frames back. What DXVA does internally, madVR doesn't know. Most GPU manufacturers try to auto detect if the source is video or film, often even per pixel, and try to apply a proper deinterlacing method for that. Unfortunately due to how the DXVA interface is designed, the output is usually double frame rate, even for film sources, which means you can't play the result at 24Hz, and you often have 3:2 pulldown judder baked into the DXVA output.

Really sorry to bother you with something I should already understand... What is video mode exactly? For me, video mode, is just not film mode. So maybe, it does something more that could bring me other benefits. I searched forums and wasn't able to find a clear answer.


Hardware DVD/Blu-Ray players have a processing chip built in which does the deinterlacing. Depending on the chip, deinterlacing quality can vary between good and bad. Better chips are often able to deinterlacing film content correctly, some can even IVTC for 24fps output. How good that works will vary from player to player.

Generally, applying IVTC can be very easy, or it can be very tricky, depending on the content. Some content is really 24fps, but just with flags for 60i output. Such content is extremely easy to output in 24fps. Other content is encoded as 60 different fields, either with or without flags that indicate which fields belong together. Yet other content might constantly switch between different encoding modes. madVR's film mode understands every of these variants and tries to produce perfect 24fps. It usually works pretty well. Hardware DVD/Blu-Ray players usually have no problem with the easier encoding variants, but might stumble with more difficult situations.

Ok, I'm trying to use film mode as much as possible. However, I have some videos that seems to be 3:2 pulldown but not perfectly. Playing them in film mode will bring a lot of cadence break and dropped frame. On the other side, if I'm deintrelacing the 29.97 video to play it at 59.9, it won't play well as there is a lot of pulldown judder like you said. Overall, I prefer film mode even with some glitch during playback. So, why my blu-ray is able to play this DVD correctly and I'm not. Is it because there is some frame interpolation or a kind of smooth playback like the one you built? I'm really thinking to use this feature for this video. Is a DVD video could get corrupted with scratch like a CD? In that case, the .vob file would be unusable, right?

Finally, thank you for your answer and time.

[Tarzan]

This Wednesday I am finally getting a projector with lens memory function (jvc x35) and I am now making different profiles according to aspect ratios. However I wonder whether madvr after playback automatically changes the lens memory back to the whatever it was before playback.

Example:
I use memory 1 for viewing the windows desktop in 16:9. A cinemascope movie is started and madvr activates lens memory 2. After playback, will madvr be stuck on memory 2, or will it change back to memory 1?

Yes I know, I could wait until Wednesday, but I'm curious.
Ok, so now it is finally Wednesday and I know madvr does not change the lens memory back to whatever it was before playback. Is there any way of making it activate a certain lens memory while quitting madvr?

[aufkrawall]

but I am with AMD
Oops, I thought you were on Nvidia. Then DXVA2n might work without blurry chroma for you.

[Damien147]

Oh great!Full chroma with black screen.:D:p

[Georgel]

Tested the new NGU in depth and the performance is okay but heats up the GPU quite a bit. Those figures are after a 10 minute run of a video at medium medium for NGU , original video res 1920x1080, presented on 2560x1440

http://i.imgur.com/zSuZG71.png

A bit of efficiency would be welcome, otherwise it will be mostly usable on low without turning my setup into a vacuum cleaner

[pose]

Georgel, whats in upscaling refinement? Also is that NGU pixart?

[Bloodred]

There must be something going on with your cooling, I use a GTX 1080 too and I haven't seen any of the NGU variants heat it up that much, mine stays around ~65C at ~80% load (pushing beyond that tends to make it start dropping frames for me). Not trying to dismiss your issue as a "works on my machine" type of deal, but a 1080 really shouldn't be hitting 85C at <200W peak power draw if adequately cooled.

[Georgel]

There must be something going on with your cooling, I use a GTX 1080 too and I haven't seen any of the NGU variants heat it up that much, mine stays around ~65C at ~80% load (pushing beyond that tends to make it start dropping frames for me). Not trying to dismiss your issue as a "works on my machine" type of deal, but a 1080 really shouldn't be hitting 85C at <200W peak power draw if adequately cooled.

Laptop GTX 1080. Same power as desktop, cooling isn't as good so it heats more. Its safe temps are up to 92C where it becomes a real problem.

Those were the results with the fans on auto and a cooler turned at max underneath the laptop.

Turning the fans within at max level will make a noise like a vacuum cleaner, but it decreases the temperatures a bit, down to 70C - 75C.

Not that bad for laptops and taking into account that the power is actually similar to desktop.

Georgel, whats in upscaling refinement? Also is that NGU pixart?

Running the latest version of NGU pixart and nothing turned on inside Upscaling refinement since Pixart looks best without any additions to me.

http://i.imgur.com/FngUmVr.png

[omarank]

Here's a new NGU pixart test build:

http://madshi.net/nguPixArt.zip

Overall, I prefer NGU pixart 2/3 over the other options, but I can't decide if I prefer pixart 2 or 3. With some images I prefer 2, with some 3.

What are your thoughts?
NGU pixart 3 looks better than NGU pixart 2. Although these two versions look more natural than the first version of NGU pixart, yet I find the look of NNEDI3 even more natural. As I see it, all variants of NGU tend to sharpen the edges more than the texture, while NNEDI3 is more balanced. I will see if I can find any more samples which highlight the difference. I look forward to seeing NGU pixart 4.

[cork_OS]

As I see it, all variants of NGU tend to sharpen the edges more than the texture
This is especially visible with NGU standard.

[Georgel]

NGU pixart 3 looks better than NGU pixart 2. Although these two versions look more natural than the first version of NGU pixart, yet I find the look of NNEDI3 even more natural. As I see it, all variants of NGU tend to sharpen the edges more than the texture, while NNEDI3 is more balanced. I will see if I can find any more samples which highlight the difference. I look forward to seeing NGU pixart 4.

Now that you mention it, it does look like that is what is going on.

But NGU Pixart was basically made for low res content and especially anime, so using it with Real Life content might result in different results compared to normal NGU.

To my eyes, NGU Pixart looks considerably better with anime than typical NGU

[XMonarchY]

What plans does madshi have for madVR that its development seems to have slowed down? What can we expect in madVR 1.0.0?

[huhn]

Now that you mention it, it does look like that is what is going on.

But NGU Pixart was basically made for low res content and especially anime, so using it with Real Life content might result in different results compared to normal NGU.

To my eyes, NGU Pixart looks considerably better with anime than typical NGU

the new NGU pixart only works at very high.

[Damien147]

@XMonarchY

Maybe free espresso coffee:p The best thing I can imagine is a shader which combines the best attributes of NGU pixart/NGU standard with the ''3D'' effect of old softcubic!That would be great.


@Madshi

I don't want to be tiring but I noticed somewhere that you have AMD HD7770.You don't get black screen with 10bit(hevc) in dxva2(native)?Is it only RX 4x0 issue?