madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[DragonQ]

What are you interpolating? The only stuff I watch at 1080p/50 is stuff deinterlaced from 1080i/25. I hate using interpolation on 1080p/24 sources.

[THX-UltraII]

I find this to be a great combination for me. Everyone that sees this combination in action on the TV is amazed, works great together. My only settings in madVR that may have deviated from default, were to enable it to wait until queues are full, and I use cpu queue 24, gpu queue 12, exclusive present frames in advance queue 4.
I m having a question about the queues of the GPU and CPU that can be set in madVR. Does a HIGHER queue results in LESS or MORE dropped frames usually? I have a i7 2600K running at 4,0Ghz and a GTX460 1024mb gddr5 overclocked edition. What are the recommended madVR settings for my setup you think?

[dansrfe]

Is it better to watch 1080p/24 -> 60Hz via SVP/InterFrame or 1080p/24 -> 24Hz native refresh rate?

[Hypernova]

Yeah cheers, figured this one out. Full RGB works if you create custom resolutions. Problem solved. Ok not solved, problem worked around :)

Just realized this. I've a question: how do you add a custom resolution for 23p? When I try that it say does not support. I've been watching washed out color for a week or so :(

[namaiki]

Is it better to watch 1080p/24 -> 60Hz via SVP/InterFrame or 1080p/24 -> 24Hz native refresh rate?


I tried SVP and it was nice but there were artifacts, so I have 1080p/24 -> 48Hz. I suppose if you have a more powerful CPU you could use more powerful settings that would produce less arifacts.

[G_M_C]

Is it better to watch 1080p/24 -> 60Hz via SVP/InterFrame or 1080p/24 -> 24Hz native refresh rate?

1080p/24 -> 24Hz native refresh rate, no interference or change to the original is always best.

But asking whats best is also against rules @ D9 ;)

[DragonQ]

Is it better to watch 1080p/24 -> 60Hz via SVP/InterFrame or 1080p/24 -> 24Hz native refresh rate?
Depends what you prefer. Personally I hate all the frame interpolation on modern TVs (Sony's "MotionFlow", for example). Makes films look weird - they are shot at 24 fps for a reason, to get that "film look". The same with aspect ratio - I always go for the OAR.

Now, a film that's shot natively at 48+ fps, that's different since the director intended it to look like that.

Also, FYI, 24 Hz to 60 Hz is never going to be smooth but you could do 24 to 48 or 72 Hz (although most TVs won't accept this as an input).

[mzso]

Depends what you prefer. Personally I hate all the frame interpolation on modern TVs (Sony's "MotionFlow", for example). Makes films look weird - they are shot at 24 fps for a reason, to get that "film look". The same with aspect ratio - I always go for the OAR.

Now, a film that's shot natively at 48+ fps, that's different since the director intended it to look like that.

Also, FYI, 24 Hz to 60 Hz is never going to be smooth but you could do 24 to 48 or 72 Hz (although most TVs won't accept this as an input).

The reason being 24p is the norm.

By the way "film look" is the lamest argument for inferior framerate.

[v0lt]

http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/V-codecs/CRAM/clock-cram16.avi
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/V-codecs/CRAM/worm.avi
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/V-codecs/CVID/1984.apple_ad.mov
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/V-codecs/CVID/handss.avi
4 Day Weekend.mov (http://www.directmirror.com/files/BAWVF6FZhttp://)
AVI Decompressor (RGB24) + madVR = artifacts
ffdshow (RGB24) + madVR = normal
AVI Decompressor (RGB24) + Color Space Converter(ARGB32) + EVR = normal

[DragonQ]

The reason being 24p is the norm.

By the way "film look" is the lamest argument for inferior framerate.

Yes, 24p is the norm for films, that's why people think of it as a "film look". Dramas and documentaries are often filmed at 25p/30p to achieve the same look, even though they have 50i/60i available to them, and it does make a difference to the "feel" of the programme.

Personally, I can't wait for interlacing to just die and for everyone to use 50/60p (or even 100/120p) for everything. It depresses me that most "rips" are deinterlaced from 50/60i to 25/30p instead of 50/60p, even when they're "HD" (720p). What's the point in using an HD spatial resolution when you're losing HALF of the temporal resolution?

[THX-UltraII]

I m having a question about the queues of the GPU and CPU that can be set in madVR. Does a HIGHER queue results in LESS or MORE dropped frames usually? I have a i7 2600K running at 4,0Ghz and a GTX460 1024mb gddr5 overclocked edition. What are the recommended madVR settings for my setup you think?

no ideas anyone?

[mr.duck]

no ideas anyone?

Use defaults. If it works, enjoy it ;)

[namaiki]

Use defaults. If it works, enjoy it ;)

+1

Defaults are fine. I reduce the GPU queues on my computer that has Intel HD graphics as it seems to help performance.

[THX-UltraII]

+1

Defaults are fine. I reduce the GPU queues on my computer that has Intel HD graphics as it seems to help performance.

so higher CPU and GPU gives more quality but less performance??

[robpdotcom]

In my experience, higher queues give more assurance that no frames will be dropped, but it pushes the hardware more (my CPU usage will be a bit higher). I also find that higher queues slow down seeking a bit, but not by much (it could also just be my imagination).

BTW: Madshi has already made numerous comments on this - search and I'm sure you can find them.

[namaiki]

so higher CPU and GPU gives more quality but less performance??

It's not more "quality" as picture quality should be identical.

I guess longer queues might help if you have a lot of background processes open on your computer?

[dansrfe]

so higher CPU and GPU gives more quality but less performance??

You should aim to minimize the number of frames in the CPU and GPU queues as much as you can yet still avoid frame drops/delays.

[iSeries]

Just realized this. I've a question: how do you add a custom resolution for 23p? When I try that it say does not support. I've been watching washed out color for a week or so :(

Yeah I saw it says it doesn't support 23hz when trying to create a custom resolution, which is odd as it obviously has a preset for 23hz lol. 24hz is fine though. I'm using Reclock anyway so 24hz works for me.

[Hypernova]

Yeah I saw it says it doesn't support 23hz when trying to create a custom resolution, which is odd as it obviously has a preset for 23hz lol. 24hz is fine though. I'm using Reclock anyway so 24hz works for me.

For whatever reason, my old board Asus Z77 LK (which I returned) seems to give the correct black level if I use DVI->HDMI convertor instead of plugging in HDMI port directly, but my new ASRock Extreme6 give the same black level regardless. This really give me a headache. I'm not sure what's right anymore.

Can anyone point me to a good write-up on how to check and calibrate black level? I started to doubt that I might simply have the wrong brightness and contrast.

[JarrettH]

Thought I'd chime in and say the new 301.42 WHQL drivers are working excellent for me. Previously I was using 285.58 and still got glitches in the 100s for any content I watched. I didn't upgrade until now due to a SETI CUDA bug which was fixed after release 301. Anyway, my previous setting were no/flush/no/no (mitchell netravali luma and bicubic 75 chroma). With the newest drivers I get zero glitches and dropped frames with no/flush/no/no so I set it back at default (flush/flush&sleep/no/no) and same results with zero glitches and no dropped frames. Using Adaptive vsync too

buffers: 5 windowed, 8 exclusive
queues: 8 cpu, 4 gpu

[nevcairiel]

The new NVIDIA driver also fixed the black screen bug, apparently.

[6233638]

The new NVIDIA driver also fixed the black screen bug, apparently.I can confirm that it's been fixed with the new WHQL drivers.

When video playback is a concern, I would not recommend anyone use nVidia beta drivers. I have always run into problems with betas either with LAV Filters/CUVID or madVR, that have been resolved by the time the new WHQL drivers are out.

Unfortunately though if you're a gamer, sometimes beta drivers are required for some games. Rage was the last time that happened though, as far as I can recall. (but nVidia are usually pretty good at bringing out performance improvements close to release with betas)

[dioxholster]

Am I supposed to turn Adaptive VSync on? And you guys saying no more glitches in exclusive mode?

[JarrettH]

Yeah I believe the new way to tackle vsync is leave it at Adaptive

[6233638]

Am I supposed to turn Adaptive VSync on? And you guys saying no more glitches in exclusive mode?You should absolutely not use adaptive v-sync for video playback.

Adaptive v-sync is for games that do not support triple-buffering.

The way standard v-sync works if you enable it in games is as follows: V-Sync Off: The game runs as fast as it can, either above or below the display's refresh rate, and you have severe screen tearing problems. If the game is running below the refresh rate (say 40fps on a 60Hz display) then you will have one "band" of screen tearing. If the game is running above the refresh rate (say 73fps on a 60Hz display) you will have multiple "bands" of screen tearing.
V-Sync On: The game is capped to the display's refresh rate (i.e. 60fps on most displays) and if the game's framerate drops below that, whether it's to 59fps or 31 fps, it immediately drops the framerate down to the next closest multiple of the refresh rate. So at 60Hz, a game will only run at 60fps, 30fps, 20fps, 15fps etc. If you are playing a game at 60fps and the framerate is constantly in flux, jumping between 60fps and 30fps is very jarring.
Adaptive V-Sync: The game's framerate is capped to the screen's refresh rate (i.e. 60fps on a 60Hz display) but if the framerate ever drops below the refresh rate, say to 59fps, then v-sync is disabled and the screen tears. This avoids the problem of having v-sync off entirely where running over-frame causes multiple "bands" of tearing, but also avoids the problem of immediately dropping to 30fps as soon as the card cannot sustain a constant 60fps framerate, at the cost of introducing screen tearing.
Triple Buffering: Triple buffering works in conjunction with V-Sync and is essentially the best of the lot, though with some game implementations, it can add a frame of delay, which is why adaptive may be preferable in some instances. It limits the game's upper framerate to the refresh rate (60fps on a 60Hz display) as with adaptive v-sync, but if the framerate drops below that, due to the extra screen buffer, the framerate will remain as high as it possibly can be, whether that's 42fps, 59fps etc. without the screen tearing that adaptive v-sync introduces.Note: the Triple Buffering option in the Nvidia control panel only applies to OpenGL games, with Direct3D games you either need to enable it in their options if it's supported, or you can try forcing it on with the D3DOverrider tool. (but it's not compatible with every game)

With games, my personal preference is to enable/force triple buffering when possible, as I find screen tearing to be very ugly, but I will also spend a fair bit of time initially tailoring the settings so that my framerate, unless in exceptional circumstances, is always locked to my refresh rate. With my GTX570, just about any game can be locked to 60fps, though it does sometimes mean turning down a setting or two. (like anti-aliasing or SSAO) The only exception recently has been the original Alan Wake, where I had to change my display to 50Hz rather than 60. (the new Alan Wake's American Nightmare runs fine at 60 though)

The latest Nvidia drivers also have the option to cap your framerate at 30fps (though I would actually recommend 35 and enabling v-sync to give it some headroom) if you cannot maintain a stable 50/60 fps and don't want screen tearing or stuttering. This can be enabled through Nvidia Inspector on a per-game basis, though personally I can't tolerate anything less than 50fps and would rather turn down settings rather than cap it at 30.


For video purposes, you don't want adaptive v-sync enabled, as that will allow screen tearing. Though really with video playback, you really don't want dropped frames at all, which is why I would recommend using ReClock with madVR, as it syncs the video speed to your refresh rate to avoid dropped/duplicated frames. (no display has a perfect 24/1.001, or 24.000 refresh rate)

[THX-UltraII]

You should aim to minimize the number of frames in the CPU and GPU queues as much as you can yet still avoid frame drops/delays.

So as low as possible without having too much dropped frames? What do you recommend for CPU and GPU queue for i7 2600k + GTX460 oc-ed?

[THX-UltraII]

I can confirm that it's been fixed with the new WHQL drivers.

When video playback is a concern, I would not recommend anyone use nVidia beta drivers. I have always run into problems with betas either with LAV Filters/CUVID or madVR, that have been resolved by the time the new WHQL drivers are out.

Unfortunately though if you're a gamer, sometimes beta drivers are required for some games. Rage was the last time that happened though, as far as I can recall. (but nVidia are usually pretty good at bringing out performance improvements close to release with betas)

To be sure what fix we talk about here:
No need for this http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=222043&view=findpost&p=1368169 anymore?

[6233638]

To be sure what fix we talk about here:
No need for this http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=222043&view=findpost&p=1368169 anymore?No, there was a bug in the 301.24 beta drivers that caused madVR to display a black screen when "use a separate device for presentation" was enabled. That has been fixed with the WHQL release. (and 301.40 beta)

You will probably still have to either create a custom resolution or edit the .inf files to force PC levels if your display does not report that it supports them via HDMI. (my Sony LCDs do and so I've never had to mess with any of that)

[dioxholster]

You should absolutely not use adaptive v-sync for video playback.

Adaptive v-sync is for games that do not support triple-buffering.

The way standard v-sync works if you enable it in games is as follows: V-Sync Off: The game runs as fast as it can, either above or below the display's refresh rate, and you have severe screen tearing problems. If the game is running below the refresh rate (say 40fps on a 60Hz display) then you will have one "band" of screen tearing. If the game is running above the refresh rate (say 73fps on a 60Hz display) you will have multiple "bands" of screen tearing.
V-Sync On: The game is capped to the display's refresh rate (i.e. 60fps on most displays) and if the game's framerate drops below that, whether it's to 59fps or 31 fps, it immediately drops the framerate down to the next closest multiple of the refresh rate. So at 60Hz, a game will only run at 60fps, 30fps, 20fps, 15fps etc. If you are playing a game at 60fps and the framerate is constantly in flux, jumping between 60fps and 30fps is very jarring.
Adaptive V-Sync: The game's framerate is capped to the screen's refresh rate (i.e. 60fps on a 60Hz display) but if the framerate ever drops below the refresh rate, say to 59fps, then v-sync is disabled and the screen tears. This avoids the problem of having v-sync off entirely where running over-frame causes multiple "bands" of tearing, but also avoids the problem of immediately dropping to 30fps as soon as the card cannot sustain a constant 60fps framerate, at the cost of introducing screen tearing.
Triple Buffering: Triple buffering works in conjunction with V-Sync and is essentially the best of the lot, though with some game implementations, it can add a frame of delay, which is why adaptive may be preferable in some instances. It limits the game's upper framerate to the refresh rate (60fps on a 60Hz display) as with adaptive v-sync, but if the framerate drops below that, due to the extra screen buffer, the framerate will remain as high as it possibly can be, whether that's 42fps, 59fps etc. without the screen tearing that adaptive v-sync introduces.Note: the Triple Buffering option in the Nvidia control panel only applies to OpenGL games, with Direct3D games you either need to enable it in their options if it's supported, or you can try forcing it on with the D3DOverrider tool. (but it's not compatible with every game)

With games, my personal preference is to enable/force triple buffering when possible, as I find screen tearing to be very ugly, but I will also spend a fair bit of time initially tailoring the settings so that my framerate, unless in exceptional circumstances, is always locked to my refresh rate. With my GTX570, just about any game can be locked to 60fps, though it does sometimes mean turning down a setting or two. (like anti-aliasing or SSAO) The only exception recently has been the original Alan Wake, where I had to change my display to 50Hz rather than 60. (the new Alan Wake's American Nightmare runs fine at 60 though)

The latest Nvidia drivers also have the option to cap your framerate at 30fps (though I would actually recommend 35 and enabling v-sync to give it some headroom) if you cannot maintain a stable 50/60 fps and don't want screen tearing or stuttering. This can be enabled through Nvidia Inspector on a per-game basis, though personally I can't tolerate anything less than 50fps and would rather turn down settings rather than cap it at 30.


For video purposes, you don't want adaptive v-sync enabled, as that will allow screen tearing. Though really with video playback, you really don't want dropped frames at all, which is why I would recommend using ReClock with madVR, as it syncs the video speed to your refresh rate to avoid dropped/duplicated frames. (no display has a perfect 24/1.001, or 24.000 refresh rate)

Thats very informative, thanks for that. For all these cases, does the in-game v-sync option matter at all? What if v-sync is on in control panel but off in-game, what happens then?

[6233638]

Thats very informative, thanks for that. For all these cases, does the in-game v-sync option matter at all? What if v-sync is on in control panel but off in-game, what happens then?The control panel overrides the game settings. (or at least it's supposed to)

[pirlouy]

V-sync off is the way to go. For games, and for madVR.
When using D3D, madVR manages to be in sync by itself. And for games, tearing is better than a delay before displaying frame (especially for FPS).
Too bad it's impossible to disable V-sync with Aero...

[JarrettH]

Using Adaptive wouldn't it be off for video playback anyway? You're not going to go over the monitor's refresh rate because madvr tries to closely match any supported refresh rates entered under display modes

I think Adaptive vsync was why I was getting 0 glitches, is that bad? :D

Thanks for the clarification

[6233638]

V-sync off is the way to go. For games, and for madVR.
When using D3D, madVR manages to be in sync by itself. And for games, tearing is better than a delay before displaying frame (especially for FPS).
Too bad it's impossible to disable V-sync with Aero...Unless you're actually in a tournament, playing for money, I'll never understand how people can disable v-sync and cap their framerate to 58/73/118 fps when gaming so that it constantly tears, to reduce a frame of lag. (16ms)

I find the tearing far more distracting than any competitive advantage there may be. You pay all this money for a high end PC only to have everything look like crap.


Using Adaptive wouldn't it be off for video playback anyway? You're not going to go over the monitor's refresh rate because madvr tries to closely match any supported refresh rates entered under display modes

I think Adaptive vsync was why I was getting 0 glitches, is that bad? :DIf you're watching letterboxed content, it's possible that it tore in an area you couldn't see, if I had to guess.

For optimal video playback (no tearing or stuttering) you need ReClock because your refresh rate is never going to be an exact match for the video framerate.

[JarrettH]

Actually switching back to application controlled vsync I get the glitches again. Do you think madvr can't properly record dropped frames and glitches when Adaptive is on? Interesting :eek:

[DragonQ]

Unless you're actually in a tournament, playing for money, I'll never understand how people can disable v-sync and cap their framerate to 58/73/118 fps when gaming so that it constantly tears, to reduce a frame of lag. (16ms)

I find the tearing far more distracting than any competitive advantage there may be. You pay all this money for a high end PC only to have everything look like crap.
Agreed, I have V-sync on. I play TF2 mostly, which doesn't even have a triple-buffering option, but I enable it using Direct3D Overrider. Pretty much the best of all worlds.

Haven't tried Adaptive V-sync yet and I'm not sure whether it'll be better than V-sync with triple buffering or not.

[6233638]

Agreed, I have V-Sync on. I play TF2 mostly, which doesn't even have a triple-buffering option, but I enable it using Direct3D Overrider. Pretty much the best of all worlds.

Haven't tried Adaptive V-Sync yet and I'm not sure whether triple buffering is still needed, or preferable.The difference between active v-sync and triple buffering is that active v-sync eliminates a frame of delay when running below 60fps by allowing the image to tear, whereas triple buffering ensures that the image never tears, but introduces an additional frame of lag when the framerate drops below 60fps (up to 16.67ms delay at 60Hz) because it waits for the video card to finish drawing the frame before updating the display.

Both options allow the game to run at the maximum framerate your card can manage when running below 60fps, rather than traditional v-sync which will immediately drop from 60fps to 30fps. (and then to 20, 15, 10 etc. if it can't manage that)

[chros]

I think Adaptive vsync was why I was getting 0 glitches, is that bad? :D
Well, I have tried Adaptive Vsync on my laptop + TV (see my signature): I have got only few frame drops and glitches reported by MadVR, BUT I have got plenty of visible stutters during playback. So I returned to the default setting (with which I get some frame drops too, but it's much better than adataptive vsync for me).

[JarrettH]

Only discussion I could find on the use of Adaptive in madvr: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-1333324-p-3.html

:)

[neep8]

Hi, thought I'd share this I used to use custom resolutions, now i do this to NV_DISP.INF and it outputs 0 -255 over all normal resolutions, just away to try on the new 3xx series.


[nv_miscBase_addreg__XX] <---where XX is 01, 02, 03 etc
HKR,,SetDefaultFullRGBRangeOnHDMI,%REG_DWORD%,1 <--this is inserted to each

the driver is now unsigned but will work v nicely
* or cant cant verify the publisher

[pirlouy]

Unless you're actually in a tournament, playing for money, I'll never understand how people can disable v-sync and cap their framerate to 58/73/118 fps when gaming so that it constantly tears, to reduce a frame of lag. (16ms)
If you enable Vsync, there's a delay which allows you to compete with noobs. I do not earn money, but I play to be the best ! :)
And don't forget beautiful graphics can't buy gameplay.

By the way, I do not have tearing with my 120Hz monitor. And when you said there's tearing when framerate is below 60Hz, I think it's wrong. You have tearing only when framerate > frequency. If framerate < frequency, you just have jerks.

[DragonQ]

Erm no, you get tearing whenever the refresh rate doesn't match (or is a multiple of) the frame rate, fact of life. That's why v-sync usually cuts to 30 fps when it can't handle 60 fps in a certain scene.

[dukey]

that's not how it works

[kalston]

Tearing can happen at any framerate but mostly happens when the framerate is very close to the refresh rate (eg. 61fps on a 60hz display) or a multiple of it. Don't believe me? Cap your framerate at 60fps (or take the Unreal Engine 3 and its 62fps cap) and play without v-sync on a 60hz display. Pretty awful, isn't it? Now take an old game your computer can run at hundreds of FPS (like Quake Live) and cap your framerate above 60fps and keep trying different values all the way up to 125. Keeps getting better, doesn't it?

You can make tearing barely visible without v-sync (and yes the v-sync lag is terrible on 60hz displays, much better on 120hz ones) by capping the framerate at some "smart" values. For example, playing at 125fps on a 60hz display looks and feels amazing while having little tearing (you have to look hard for it), if you have a high refresh rate (such as 120hz) you don't even need to cap your framerate to make tearing negligible (unless it tends to hover around 120).

Now, for recent games that don't run at much more than 60fps you may need to use v-sync to get a smooth game, yes. Which is why the fact most LCDs are 60hz only is so terrible for gaming. I'm glad mine can do 72/75/76hz since I can play absolutely all my games without v-sync and the tearing is always minuscule and non-issue.

But I think we're getting seriously offtopic here, the only v-sync you need in madVR is Aero's if you use Windowed mode. FSE has its own v-sync. And Reclock is a just a plus to make things even smoother (at the cost of losing bit exact audio).

[tschi]

I use smoothLevels (avisynth) to do the tv to pc levels conversion.
In MadVR it is possible to force input PC Level (ctr + shift + alt + i) but how save this parameter ? it is displayed (F2 to save) but using mphc hc (4804) it seems it doesn't save (??) :(

Is it possible to had explicit an option for pc / tv / auto input level ?
Thanks

[dado023]

This thread is really long, so ill just pop this question:

i am soon buying this laptop:
http://goo.gl/7gAcM

will madvr normaly work on WIN64bit and on geforce 650m 2GB?

cheers

[Dexter_prog]

If your GPU is not fast enough for doing both chroma and luma upscaling, I'd suggest to switch chroma upscampling to "bilinear". The quality loss will be low, not visible in most scenes. Luma resampling is much more important.

Sorry to bump this old reply, but this is what you have to do if you have a crappy onboard video card like me (nvidia 6150) and want to use this render. This was the only setting that let me use full-screen without the video playing like if it was recorded at 10fps

[meetajhu]

@below no problems when in software only when i enable Nvidia CUvideo i get problems with mpeg4. BTW i posted in the wrong forums :D

[dado023]

Lav Filters with CudaVideo kicks ass!!! All you need is to finish the MPEG-4 problems!

what kind of MPEG-4 problems do you have in mind?:confused:

[leeperry]

In MadVR is it possible to force input PC Levels
create a "force full range input" folder in mVR's folder, et voilà :cool:

[xiulet]

hi, it seems that DVD playback with navigation/menu is working in my win 7 after i installed 1.6.2.4902...i works well but in irregular maner... sometimes stuttering...but it does! it's something new or may be due to new mpc-hc? or i am luky today... i had always seen the win7 Macrovision failure with dvd on madvr.

https://i.minus.com/ibs8X0qv2j6lrz.png

thanks.

p.d: with mpc-hc 4922 macrovision fail again :)