madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[pirlouy]

I think there are false answers here.

Let Reclock to Auto.
in MadVR, if your TV is compatible with 23.976Hz and 24Hz, you have the choice:
1) you allow 23.976 in madVR, then your movie will be at that rate
2) you don't allow 23.976, and keep only 24 in madVR, and then Reclock will "speed up" a little bit the video

Personally, I've chosen the 2nd solution, since several videos are "recorded" in 24fps, then put at 23.976 for Blu-Ray.
But be careful, some movies are really "recorded" in 23.976 Hz, and watching them in 23.976 would be preferable.

It's just my opinion; maybe I'm wrong. People like Leeperry knows this kind of stuff far better than me...

[Thunderbolt8]

so whats the way to find out whether a movie has been recorded with 24 or 23.976 fps?

[pirlouy]

I think you have to search and search. :D
Maybe some "skilled" guys reading this thread could give you useful links.

[SamuriHL]

I finally got my system back to stable after the latest nVidia WHQL driver. My settings are similar to Nev's but not identical. I had to create new custom res's for 59.940 and 23.976 again. Now it's silky smooth again. nVidia, I swear, if you touch this again..... :D

[THX-UltraII]

ATI is more accurate 'out-of-the-box' than Nv with refresh rates. I can go a whole movie without a single dropped frame without reclock and my refresh rate is 23.9774 (Radeon 5570). I've used Reclock for the past year or two and recently stopped using it because I found it was unnecessary.

If you really don't want to use reclock, you can play around with custom resolutions to alter the timings to get the refresh rate closer to the target 23.976. As you can see, you don't need the refresh rate to be perfect.

Here's some reading for you:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4380/discrete-htpc-gpus-shootout/5
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20430210&highlight=custom+resolution#post20430210
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=20664433&highlight=custom+resolution#post20664433
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21039739&highlight=custom+resolution#post21039739
This seems to work fine for me. Now I can bitstream AND have accurate corresponding refresh rates. I made a custom refresh rate of 23,978, this corresponds with 23,977xx which is pretty close to 23,97600 :) I get a dropped frame every 16 hours in the report now.

However, I found a new problem I have tonight:
I ran the Avatar Blu-Ray disc and with this movie with MPC-HC/madVR I get heavy hick-ups every 10 seconds or so. I are not really stutters but it just looks like the player is 'hanging' for half a second.
I get no dropped frames or anything. When this hanging happens and I check madVR the line 'dropped frame every ...' disappears for just a slight moment.

Any thoughts?

EDIT:
I just found out that ALL my movies has this problem and that PRESENTATION GLITCHES is counting up heavy during playback.

Running W7 X64

EDIT2:
things are getting even more strange:
All off a sudden I get a red notification 'Creating Direct3D Device Failed (8876086c)' and madVR does not work anymore. A re-installation won t help either!

[linzki]

I'm using mpc-hc with lav filters, madvr, ffdshow raw video filter.

Is there a way to check my frame rate? because i'm not sure if anything happens with LAV video decoders deinterlacing 25p/30p or 50p/60p. Nothing seems to change when i switch between those two options.

Then if i use ffdshow with yadif's deinterlacing double framerate, i can hear fan picking up speed immediately and if i use zoom players playing information, i can see actual frame rate doubleing.

i tried ctrl+j in mpc-hc but can't see it telling me if framerate is doubeling; nothin changes if i switch between 25p/30p or 50p/60p in LAV video decoder.

i'm using GF 460 gtx, Intel® Core™2 Quad Processor Q6600, 4gb ddr3

[Qaq]

so whats the way to find out whether a movie has been recorded with 24 or 23.976 fps?
Not recorded, but encoded. MediaInfo(Lib) 0.7 - Reading information about media files (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96516&highlight=mediainfo)
Set ReClock to Auto, let it do its job.

[pirlouy]

No; "recorded" (or maybe it's not the exact word), not encoded. :-)

I meant, before to be on a Blu-Ray, the film has been shot at a certain frequency, this is this frequency I talk about (with my limited language).

[rahzel]

This seems to work fine for me. Now I can bitstream AND have accurate corresponding refresh rates. I made a custom refresh rate of 23,978, this corresponds with 23,977xx which is pretty close to 23,97600 :) I get a dropped frame every 16 hours in the report now.

However, I found a new problem I have tonight:
I ran the Avatar Blu-Ray disc and with this movie with MPC-HC/madVR I get heavy hick-ups every 10 seconds or so. I are not really stutters but it just looks like the player is 'hanging' for half a second.
I get no dropped frames or anything. When this hanging happens and I check madVR the line 'dropped frame every ...' disappears for just a slight moment.

Any thoughts?

EDIT:
I just found out that ALL my movies has this problem and that PRESENTATION GLITCHES is counting up heavy during playback.

Running W7 X64

EDIT2:
things are getting even more strange:
All off a sudden I get a red notification 'Creating Direct3D Device Failed (8876086c)' and madVR does not work anymore. A re-installation won t help either!
Did these issues happen before your made a custom resolution?

Seems like a few others received this message, too.

Maybe if you post a log, madshi can help you.

[dansrfe]

Exclusive mode has started causing major problems for me in terms of dropped frames and low present then render queues. Everything is fine in windowed mode though. I'm guessing this has to do with process priority or something like that but I can't say for sure.

EDIT: Scale in linear light is the cause of dropped frames in exclusive mode is enabled in Luma Upscaling for those with CPU's that aren't powerful enough.

[THX-UltraII]

Did these issues happen before your made a custom resolution?

Seems like a few others received this message, too.

Maybe if you post a log, madshi can help you.

I ll check this tonight. Did a clean W7 install to be sure and going to see what happens with the standard settings without a custom res/refresh rate. After this I will make a custom res/refresh to see if that is the problem.

How do I post a log? :stupid:

[rahzel]

I had to do it before, but I forget exactly how. I think you just run debug mode (there's an activation in the madvr folder), play 10-20 seconds of a clip, close your media player and it will post a log file.

[ryrynz]

Correct, the log will be there on your desktop, the shorter the log the better. Don't upload to Doom9 and remember to compress it.
Change back to standard mode once done.

[cremor]

so whats the way to find out whether a movie has been recorded with 24 or 23.976 fps?

As far as I know, all cinema movies are recored with 24 fps and are just slowed down to 23.976 for some NTSC compatibility reasons. Direct-to-video releases and television shows might be 23.976 natively, don't know about that.

[06_taro]

10-bit 4:2:2 sample:
BBB422p10-rr3.rar (http://www.mediafire.com/file/3n64vyvlrqduhg1/BBB422p10-rr3.rar)

Has anyone reproduced the crash decoding this file with madVR's internal libav?

[pacemaker1000]

HELP!

just changed from ATI to NVIDIA GT 430 and playback has gone jerky!
i have tried custom resolutions but cannot get 23.976 spot on
Plus, after creating a custom Resolution i cant set the desktop at 50hz and get MadVR to switch for me

beginning to regret moving to Nvidia :mad:

[dansrfe]

madshi can you look into playing files with firefox open in the background. Apparently that seems to be the problem with the dropped and delayed frames due to the queues not filling up.

[rahzel]

doesn't firefox (or any modern browser) use hardware acceleration? maybe that's the cause of the issue.

[Plutotype]

madshi can you look into playing files with firefox open in the background. Apparently that seems to be the problem with the dropped and delayed frames due to the queues not filling up.

Hi Dansrfe,

Yesterday I overclocked my HD5670, but only in terms of increasing the minimum core and memory clocks so that it never downclocks hard. Played movie and some concert through it in full lenght ( Sony Bravia @23Hz ). Results: movie 150 min - 0 frame drops, concert 1 frame drop in 100min lenght. Need to test movies, where long slow scenes are changing with action panning scenes.
0.77, Lavfilters 0.38RC, MPC-HC latest, Reclock, 11.10RC3 CCC.

I have presentation queues 8-8/8 with occasional change to 7-8/8 when using PC Monitor ( DELL U2311H ). When switching to Sony Bravia, I get only 6-7/8, but looked stable. Will test more on monday.

Pluto

[THX-UltraII]

HELP!

just changed from ATI to NVIDIA GT 430 and playback has gone jerky!
i have tried custom resolutions but cannot get 23.976 spot on
Plus, after creating a custom Resolution i cant set the desktop at 50hz and get MadVR to switch for me

beginning to regret moving to Nvidia :mad:

Also made this switch and ATI was way more accurate. With ATI I got max 3 dropped frames during a movie with the standard 23Hz ATI setting. With NVIDIA the 23Hz setting is something around 23,971xx. Changing it with the Custom Resoltion settings in the NVIDIA control panel results in 23,97495 which is the closest to 23,976. This results in a dropped frame every 8-10 minutes which does not satisfy me. Going back to ATI is no option for me because I want CUVID hardware decoding with LAV.

@Rahzel:
And the Presentation Glitches I had are gone after a fresh install of W7, also with a custom made resolution I don t have problems anymore. Maybe it has something to do with XBMC running in the background which I haven t installed yet on my fresh W7 install but I ll test this later today.

[ryrynz]

Hmm, I'm just now making the switch to a 550 Ti for this exact same reason.. I really want that LAV CUVID decoding to free up some CPU for more Avisynth post processing.

[THX-UltraII]

Hmm, I'm just now making the switch to a 550 Ti for this exact same reason.. I really want that LAV CUVID decoding to free up some CPU for more Avisynth post processing.

Same reason why I switched (want to use a frame interpolation script that uses heavy cpu and CUVID with Nvidia saves a lot of cpu) but it looks like ATI is the better choise for 'dropped-frame-free' playback while bitstreaming.

I know we will get answers from users that swear by htpc audio decoding and reclock use but I need bitstreaming so that s not an option for me

[nevcairiel]

If you setup a good custom resolution, you can get perfect playback. With ATI you may have a better out-of-the-box setup, however if thats not good for you, you have no way to adjust it. Take your pick.

[THX-UltraII]

If you setup a good custom resolution, you can get perfect playback. With ATI you may have a better out-of-the-box setup, however if thats not good for you, you have no way to adjust it. Take your pick.

that s the problem: I can t get a custom resolution with perfect playback. Choosing 23,976 gives a actualy refresh rate of 23,97495 (reported my madVR). Strange thing is that 23,977 gives the exact same reported refresh rate by madVR. Choosing 23,978 as custom resolution/refresh rate in the nvidia control panel results in 23,978xx reported by madVR. The best I can get is choosing 23,976 in nvidia which gives me a '1 frame dropped every 8,30 minutes' while ATI reported 1 frame dropped every 16-20 hours!.

[Thunderbolt8]

is that what the OSD says or the actual dropped frame count? in the end, there might be a difference between those two.

[nevcairiel]

that s the problem: I can t get a custom resolution with perfect playback. Choosing 23,976 gives a actualy refresh rate of 23,97495 (reported my madVR). Strange thing is that 23,977 gives the exact same reported refresh rate by madVR. Choosing 23,978 as custom resolution/refresh rate in the nvidia control panel results in 23,978xx reported by madVR. The best I can get is choosing 23,976 in nvidia which gives me a '1 frame dropped every 8,30 minutes' while ATI reported 1 frame dropped every 16-20 hours!.

The refresh rate isn't the only value you can change.

Also, like Thunderbolt8 says, don't trust madVRs estimate. Watch some movie and see if there really are frame drops.

[THX-UltraII]

is that what the OSD says or the actual dropped frame count? in the end, there might be a difference between those two.

that s what the OSD says at 'one frame dropped every.....'. Haven t tested what the actual dropped frames count is during a 2 hour movie.

[THX-UltraII]

The refresh rate isn't the only value you can change.
I see that there are option like Front Porch, Sync Width, Total Pixels and Polarity that I can change. Is this going to make a difference? If so, can you help me on the way what of those values to change?

Also, like Thunderbolt8 says, don't trust madVRs estimate. Watch some movie and see if there really are frame drops
I ll test this this weekend, thxz

[nevcairiel]

I see that there are option like Front Porch, Sync Width, Total Pixels and Polarity that I can change. Is this going to make a difference? If so, can you help me on the way what of those values to change?

Try increasing or lowering the total vertical pixels. But do it only one or two at a time, those settings can have varying effects.

[THX-UltraII]

Try increasing or lowering the total vertical pixels. But do it only one or two at a time, those settings can have varying effects.

I did some testing:

Changing it and LOWERING it from 1125 (which was the standard value in my nvidia settings) to eg. 1120 resulted in heavy stuttering.

Changing it from 1125 to 1130 gave my no stutter and resulted in a refresh rate reported by madVR from 23,97480 to 23,97487. So I changed it from 1125 to 1160 and madVR reports 23,97560 which is already much better. Going above 1160 results in a blank/blue screen (JVC RS25 projector) so getting to 23,97600 is not possible this way it seems. Second problem is that my screen does not 'fit' anymore: my taskbar is almost gone with 1160 now and the top of my screen is not filled.

[G_M_C]

I want to thank you all for this discussion. I have been pondering changing from Ati to Nv. But seeing this made me conclude that staying woth Ati is best in my case (mostly watching video). My CPU / GPU combination is powerfull enough to handle everything i've thrown at it.

Andreencoding to/from x264 ? The few % difference the Avisynth script has in relation to x264's process, a little patience will suffice methinks.

[THX-UltraII]

I want to thank you all for this discussion. I have been pondering changing from Ati to Nv. But seeing this made me conclude that staying woth Ati is best in my case (mostly watching video). My CPU / GPU combination is powerfull enough to handle everything i've thrown at it.

Andreencoding to/from x264 ? The few % difference the Avisynth script has in relation to x264's process, a little patience will suffice methinks.

wait a minute there! It s still not sure if it will work as good as ATI with NVIDIA. I m currently doing some testing but need more help/info as you can see in my latest reply.

Also with CUVID you cpu get unloaded a lot and even though one can have a fast cpu, it s always better to have a cpu usage as low as possible (for stability and 100% sure smooth playback)

[pacemaker1000]

Thanks guys you have given me some hope

I switched to nvidia purely to be able to use cuvid ( which i havnt tried yet as i need to get this stuttering sorted)

i too have tried custom settings, just changing the refresh rate is not succesful and results in a loss of picture down the right side of the screen.

24 and 50 seem spot on and no drops in windowed mode but switching to full screen does

any help appreciated as if i cant get this sorted i am going to try and semd the card back and get another ATI which means no cuvid :mad:

[THX-UltraII]

I think we all first need to read this whole thread. I haven t had time for this yet but going to tonight. There s a lot of information in this thread, especially the last 4-5 pages:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1333324&highlight=custom+resolution

[Thunderbolt8]

imho it makes more sense to clear up once and for all if movies really are recorded and/or supposed to be seen at 23.976 or 24 fps and then debate how to get there. after all why would I take hours of trying to get my TV and card as close as possible to the one resolution, when its actually the other which is supposed to be 'more correct' ?

[THX-UltraII]

why would I take hours of trying to get my TV and card as close as possible to the one resolution

because when frames are dropped you will notice this. At least I do when it happens. One more thing to mention why I might see the dropped frames. With my NVIDIA card frames are always dropped per two at a time.

[pirlouy]

I think you did not understand what he said.

The right question is: what's the point of having absolutely 23.976 if your GPU and display can do 24.000 Hz perfectly ? With Reclock you should not lose fluidity and should not have dropped frames at 24Hz...

[pacemaker1000]

I think you did not understand what he said.

The right question is: what's the point of having absolutely 23.976 if your GPU and display can do 24.000 Hz perfectly ? With Reclock you should not lose fluidity and should not have dropped frames at 24Hz...

Yep BUT you cant have HD audio then!
using bitstream in Reclock defeats the whole purpose of it. this is why i have stopped using it and am in search of the next best thing

[nevcairiel]

Not the next best thing, but actually a better thing: Just decode your audio!

[Thunderbolt8]

I think you did not understand what he said.

The right question is: what's the point of having absolutely 23.976 if your GPU and display can do 24.000 Hz perfectly ? With Reclock you should not lose fluidity and should not have dropped frames at 24Hz...no. the right question is why would I want to have the one thing, even when its running perfectly, when its actually 'correct' and supposed to be watched and listened to at the other framerate? perfect 23.976 fps playback, nice, but what if movies are actually supposed to be watched at 24.000? (or the other way round)

so there are 2 philosophies: watching at the 'correct' framerate or watching at that one whichever you can come closest to with your setup.

even when deciding to go with the 2nd one for practical reasons, imho the 1st one should also be cleared up once and for all.

[Qaq]

Just watched 23 movie with 23 > 25 speedup by ReClock and 50Hz refresh rate. IMO its smoother than 23/23 and much much smoother than 23>24/60. And saves a bit of time ))

[noee]

it s always better to have a cpu usage as low as possible (for stability and 100% sure smooth playback)

IDK, I don't see that as an issue, at least on my older Propus boxes (soon to be retired). Granted, I have an HD6570 in there, but this box runs encodes 24/7 and we use it for movie playback sometimes. In fact, just finished a 2hr movie with jRiver/LAV/REclock/madVR on this machine, while it was running an encode (CPU at a constant 100%) and I hit Ctrl-R at the beginning, checked at the end and all the frame stats were Zero.

I don't use AVISynth for playback and this was on a 24Hz HDTV with Reclock PCM (best) HDMI to the recv'r. Should add, I'm using madVR in FSE mode.

[pacemaker1000]

Not the next best thing, but actually a better thing: Just decode your audio!

As you are online and helped me before can you please assist in getting my new GT430 up and running before i have to return it and miss out on cuvid?

24 and 50 fps work fine but even then only in windowed mode, FS results in lots of dropped frames so pointless looking for 23.976 until i sort this.

plus see abive post but how do you set the custom res in nvidia?
my ati was consistantly 23.977

[THX-UltraII]

Not the next best thing, but actually a better thing: Just decode your audio!

But that s the problem I (and other D-Box owners) have: I order for D-Box to work it needs a bitstreamed signal so ReClock is no option for me.

[nevcairiel]

But that s the problem I (and other D-Box owners) have: I order for D-Box to work it needs a bitstreamed signal so ReClock is no option for me.

Sounds like you should just get rid of those crappy things, then.
Can't help you if you cripple yourself. Good luck with your setup, though!

PS:
Send decoded over HDMI and Bitstream over SPDIF to the D-Box? The D-Box won't care if yoru audio has minor gaps due to bitstreaming.
Problem solved!

[THX-UltraII]

Just did some interesting testing:

I ran a 2,5 hour movie (avatar) and got only 2! dropped frames, zero delayed frames and zero presentation glitches!

The only thing to achieve is was choosing a custom res/refresh rate of 23,978 in the NIVDIA control panel.

This results in a reported refrash rate of 23,9775 by madVR and a report of '1 frame dropped every 18,65 minutes' but after 135 minutes of playback I got only 2 dropped frames.

This seems good, I ll test more movies this week.

If this works and I get 2 dropped frames during a 2 hour movie I m very satisfied. No ReClock needed and only 2 dropped frames which you will never notice.

[rahzel]

Not the next best thing, but actually a better thing: Just decode your audio!
OT, but since you brought it up. I noticed that when I decode with LAV Audio, my receiver always receives the number of channels that I have set in Windows 7 (ie 7.1), regardless if I play a 5.1 or 7.1 track, so I'm assuming silent streams are sent with 5.1 tracks? Is ReClock + WASAPI the only way to output the same number of channels as the original audio track?

[e-t172]

Yes and yes.

[Andy o]

imho it makes more sense to clear up once and for all if movies really are recorded and/or supposed to be seen at 23.976 or 24 fps

This is not the issue (and it is not an issue either). The cards can do both "23" (23.976) and "24" (24.000) in theory. The problem is that none of those options come close enough to not have dropped/repeated frames on whichever option (23 or 24) you use.

The "issue" of which is "correct", 23.976 or 24, is not an issue really. Technically, 24 is correct, but who cares? If you want playback without dropped/repeated frames, you have to get as close as the actual video rate, i.e. whatever's on the disk/file you're playing. "THE correct" rate is meaningless here.

But of course, unless you have special needs like THX-UltraII you can just decode and use ReClock, anyway.

[Thunderbolt8]

it is an issue for me, because I want to listen to the audio in its unaltered form, meaning with that pitch that is supposed to be correct. (and no matter how tiny the difference would be, I simply want to know I am listening to the audio in its unaltered state)