madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 759

70MM

11th May 2016, 23:24

Guys Ive just checked with my installer and he says we are installing madvr correctly in conjunction with JRiver. He said the madVR install he did was using the Program Files/madVR folder, not the one in the user folder so he updated the folder under users and will see how it goes....

He made this video showing how the APPLY is greyed out. Can you check and see what we are doing wrong please?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGHoKtttvcQ&feature=youtu.be

Any help on this please guys as I have my installer coming back today to try and get madvr installed correctly?

noee

12th May 2016, 00:44

Any help on this please guys as I have my installer coming back today to try and get madvr installed correctly?

Do you have access to the machine to copy files? If so, then find the JRIver plugins/madvr folder as mentioned above and unzip/extract the madvr.zip into that folder. I'd clear it first and make sure MediaCenter is not running. Also, you might go ahead and get rid of any other installs of madVR for clarity.

Not much else to it, we've been doing it this way for years with madVR and MediaCenter, not sure what an "installer" is going to do any differently.

Why does the "installer" have access to the machine, but you apparently don't?

70MM

12th May 2016, 00:48

Do you have access to the machine to copy files? If so, then find the JRIver plugins/madvr folder as mentioned above and unzip/extract the madvr.zip into that folder. I'd clear it first and make sure MediaCenter is not running. Also, you might go ahead and get rid of any other installs of madVR for clarity.

Not much else to it, we've been doing it this way for years with madVR and MediaCenter, not sure what an "installer" is going to do any differently.

Why does the "installer" have access to the machine, but you apparently don't?

Ok we will check this today. I have my installer for the home cinema do all this stuff as he built the PC for me and is much more up with all the PC stuff than me. If I wanted complete control of it I would take it, but I don't know the install stuff.

I have learnt all the settings in madvr which he doesn't know as well as I, its just the install stuff/updates I need him for.

70MM

12th May 2016, 04:41

Do you have access to the machine to copy files? If so, then find the JRIver plugins/madvr folder as mentioned above and unzip/extract the madvr.zip into that folder. I'd clear it first and make sure MediaCenter is not running. Also, you might go ahead and get rid of any other installs of madVR for clarity.

Not much else to it, we've been doing it this way for years with madVR and MediaCenter, not sure what an "installer" is going to do any differently.

Why does the "installer" have access to the machine, but you apparently don't?

Thanks for that, we completely cleared the directory where madVR was installed and started from scratch. So we had to reconfigure all the settings again. But now the new ringing setting under artefacts works correctly.

Thanks again for your help...

mogli

12th May 2016, 05:21

[...]
2. It is the other way around, downscale in linear light if downscaling the source directly but downscale in gamma light when downscaling after image doubling.
[...]Why is that? Because image doubling is happening in gamma light, too?

omarank

12th May 2016, 06:07

Under Windows, there's SetDeviceGammaRamp for the desktop (which always takes a 3x256 entries table with 16-bit precision integers) and equivalent functionality for D3D fullscreen.

Btw, don't use the prehistoric X-Rite (or rather LOGO/GretagMacbeth) Calibration Tester to test video card gamma ramp linearity - it doesn't work right and from what I know, never did (you can even see it in your screenshot, the end value for a linear ramp should be 65535, but LUT tester thinks it should be 65280, which probably means the developers made the mistake that they assumed each step above zero increases by 256 instead of the correct 257). There's other tools to check video card gamma ramp linearity (e.g. either Argyll's dispcal -V when used with a linear cal file which will show the discrepancy if any in percent, or DisplayCAL's curve viewer which will show "linear" in the status area if you hover the graph of a linear gamma ramp when "show calibration from video card" is checked).

Not only that, it's the only correct way - a linear 16-bit ramp with the goal to not alter the input in any way has to start at 0 and end at 65535, not 65280, so the CalibrationTester is simply wrong :-)

Btw, I think of the math in a slightly different way: The increment step is 65535 / <number of entries per channel - 1>, i.e. 65535 / (256 - 1) or 65535 / 255.
Why subtract 1 from the number of entries per channel? Because the first entry is zero, and so we have (256 - 1) = 255 entries left to increment up to the maximum channel value of 65535. Sorry for the OT :-)
Thanks for explaining this. I am convinced that how madVR/Argyll/DisplayCAL handle/view the GPU LUT is the correct way to do.

However, I still have a concern. I was using the Calibration Tester not to reset the LUT but to check the status of the LUT. I did this testing on three systems with different GPUs – Intel, AMD and Nvidia. In all three systems there was no ICC profile used and there was no application manipulating the LUT. In this condition, the default state of the LUT was found different than it was when madVR reset the LUT (through “disable GPU gamma ramps”) as you would have seen in the Comparison that I posted. So by default the LUT is set as slightly non-linear. Yesterday I also observed that if in Nvidia control panel -> Adjust Desktop Color Settings -> “Use NVIDIA Settings” is selected, the state of the LUT changes to linear from the default slightly non-linear state. Similarly, if in AMD settings -> Desktop Color -> “Reactivate AMD Color Controls” is selected (with default gamma 1.00), the state of the LUT changes to linear from slightly non-linear. I was wondering if there is any implication of this slightly non-linear state of the LUT? Could it be that the GPU driver doesn’t do any processing of the LUT when it is set in this slightly non-linear state (the default OS state)?

Ver Greeneyes

12th May 2016, 13:18

Could it be that the GPU driver doesn’t do any processing of the LUT when it is set in this slightly non-linear state (the default OS state)?Maybe, but the only processing it has to do is a table lookup, so I doubt it matters at all for performance.

Incidentally, while writing my own little program to keep my LUT loaded (a lot of games disable it when they go fullscreen), I saw a lot of problems on an Intel GPU. The LUT would get reset by various events (by Windows security dialogues and the like), but the GPU would be convinced that the old LUT was still loaded - and loading it again would do nothing.

I eventually solved this by setting the LUT unconditionally, and quickly switching back and forth between two imperceptibly different LUTs (the actual LUT, and the same LUT with all 16-bit values increased by 1) once every few seconds. Thankfully doing so didn't seem to cause video playback glitches, but having the GPU just flat-out lie to you is pretty annoying.

Hmm, with the new build I seem to be getting image doubling if the window is smaller than the video. It turns off if the window is the exact size as the video. I have image doubling set to "only if the scaling factor is 1.5x (or bigger)", so I shouldn't be getting supersampling!Ooops, will have to check that.I've worked around this bug for now by adding a profile that explicitly disables image doubling if ((scalingFactor.x < 1.0) && (scalingFactor.y < 1.0)).

Uoppi

12th May 2016, 14:19

Many thanks aufkrawall and Asmodian for explaining the downscaling light options! Indeed, I got it wrong so now I have linear light enabled only with UHD -> 1080p scaling (I've shot a lot of UHD stuff on my Samsung Note 4). I always use SuperRes along with doubling though, so best to settle for gamma light for the other profiles then.

BTW, speaking of Samsung Note 4 and its variable frame rate clips: am I dreaming, or can LAV filters affect how smoothly VFR vids are handled in madVR? It feels as if dropped/repeated frames seem less jarring/glitchy as of late. It seems to me this happened after updating my Kodi DSPlayer which had the most up-to-date LAV package (the player itself is no longer being developed). I would think a dropped frame is a dropped frame though, so maybe I've just grown accustomed to VFR's inherent glitchiness, dunno...

fhoech

12th May 2016, 16:41

In this condition, the default state of the LUT was found different than it was when madVR reset the LUT
Check if "Use Windows display calibration" is enabled (Windows Color Management settings -> "Advanced" tab), it has the same problem as the CalibrationTester (which is pretty embarrassing for MS to be honest, you would think that they would know their own APIs better...).

Incidentally, while writing my own little program to keep my LUT loaded (a lot of games disable it when they go fullscreen)
If you're using SetDeviceGammaRamp, this may not be enough for fullscreen (D3D) games, because the APIs allow for different video card gamma tables in desktop/windowed mode and fullscreen (exclusive) mode where the latter can only be influenced from within the actual game process (or via DLL injection, there's a small utility called ColorClutch which uses this method).

Ver Greeneyes

12th May 2016, 16:48

If you're using SetDeviceGammaRamp, this may not be enough for fullscreen (D3D) games, because the APIs allow for different video card gamma tables in desktop/windowed mode and fullscreen (exclusive) mode where the latter can only be influenced from within the actual game process (or via DLL injection, there's a small utility called ColorClutch which uses this method).Yes, thankfully I've only come across one game that used the D3D API to overwrite the gamma ramps (The Bard's Tale), and I was able to fix that using a hook I wrote myself (which also puts the game into windowed mode to fix the alt-tab crashes). Didn't know about Color Clutch though, I'll have to remember that if I run into another game that sets the gamma ramps.

XMonarchY

12th May 2016, 17:15

New setting works different from the upscale/downscale antiring filter.

Dering removes source ringing before any sizing is done. Antiring removes ringing that is introduced by most scaling algorithms but shouldn't affect source ringing at all.

Thanks!

I do not watch any anime, so I assume enabling both - 1. the new De-Ringing + 2. Reducing Dark Halo's improves image quality in films.

What causes that ringing to begin-with? Does it affect specific Scaling Algorithm methods, like NNEDI3, Jinc, etc. ? Before this new De-Ringing, there already were Anti-Ringing features. Did these original features fail at removing ringing and dark halos?

omarank

12th May 2016, 17:53

Maybe, but the only processing it has to do is a table lookup, so I doubt it matters at all for performance..
It’s not about performance. It’s about GPU driver doing some processing on madVR rendered frames, even if it is a simple LUT processing. So if it is actually true that in the default OS state the LUT processing is bypassed, I would prefer keeping my system in that state. But we don’t know…

Check if "Use Windows display calibration" is enabled (Windows Color Management settings -> "Advanced" tab), it has the same problem as the CalibrationTester (which is pretty embarrassing for MS to be honest, you would think that they would know their own APIs better...).
That option is disabled by default, and I also confirmed that none of the systems had that option enabled.

I agree, MS has really made a mess here.

omarank

12th May 2016, 18:38

I just came across this link (https://git.backbone.ws/linux/backbone-sources/commit/4366f3b5f5a971cf348c298716b2cb29aab6ef4f) about bypassing the LUT for 10 bit output from AMD GPU on Linux. Below is a quote from there:

“The hardware lut's only have 256 slots for indexing by a 8 bpc framebuffer. In 10 bpc scanout modes, framebuffer color values would get truncated to their 8 msb's, thereby losing the extra precision afforded by a 10 bpc framebuffer.
To retain full precision, bypass the hw lut in 10 bpc scanout mode.”

I do use 10 bit output in madVR on my AMD system, and reading this made me shiver.

Ver Greeneyes

12th May 2016, 19:01

“The hardware lut's only have 256 slots for indexing by a 8 bpc framebuffer. In 10 bpc scanout modes, framebuffer color values would get truncated to their 8 msb's, thereby losing the extra precision afforded by a 10 bpc framebuffer.
To retain full precision, bypass the hw lut in 10 bpc scanout mode.”

I do use 10 bit output in madVR on my AMD system, and reading this made me shiver.
If that's true it sucks; they should be linearly interpolating between values when the bit depth is higher than the number of entries in the LUT. Still, if they have to bypass it altogether, then it doesn't matter what values are in the LUT - and filling the LUT from 0 to 65535 is still more correct than only setting the 8 high bits of each entry.

Asmodian

12th May 2016, 19:16

Why is that? Because image doubling is happening in gamma light, too?

Image doubling is happening in gamma light but the reasoning I use is less precise/mathematical.

I like linear light downscaling because it preserves small bright details, like stars in a night sky, much better. After doubling all these small bright details are twice as big so linear light downscaling does not preserve their appearance any better but it does have more ringing and aliasing.

BluesFanUK

12th May 2016, 19:19

Asmodian

12th May 2016, 19:30

Slightly off topic (and perhaps me being a bit thick) - Anyone use a 1440p monitor here?

I had a 4K monitor at the backend of 2015 (27" Acer S277HK), but the grainy/hazy screen did my head in, and quite frankly I couldn't even see much difference when a high quality 1080 vid was played next to a high quality 4K vid, so I passed it on.

I have read 1440 is a bad screen size for watching films/tv shows/streaming as it doesn't have a 1:1 scale like 4K would from 1080, only that it benefits games. Have a 980ti so I have the graphical grunt for MadVR but just wondering whether it's worth moving up screen size from a 23" 1080p monitor to a 25"/27" 1440p one. I'm presuming there are no adverse affect with MadVR too (besides being able to use less settings at the higher res)?

I happen to have a 1440p monitor (Acer XB270HU bprz) and a 980Ti.
Using madVR to watch 1080p on a 27" 1440p monitor is excellent. Image quality is better than 1080p on a 27" 1080p monitor because at 1080p the pixels are too visible and madVR's upscaling is very good.

A 980Ti has enough power to run quite high settings even when upscaling to 1080p to 1440. (e.g. NNEDI3 64 luma doubling is easy)

har3inger

12th May 2016, 21:21

Thanks!

I do not watch any anime, so I assume enabling both - 1. the new De-Ringing + 2. Reducing Dark Halo's improves image quality in films.

What causes that ringing to begin-with? Does it affect specific Scaling Algorithm methods, like NNEDI3, Jinc, etc. ? Before this new De-Ringing, there already were Anti-Ringing features. Did these original features fail at removing ringing and dark halos?

Like madshi said, it's a problem when studios use certain scalers or sharpeners to resize a master down to the DVD or blu ray. He says that it's not from compression, but I find it sometimes helps with light ringing from compression (h264 is like jpeg. Everything gets turned into a lossy Fourier function which inherently introduces ringing)

You could probably try removing dark haloing for anime if your sources are high enough resolution. I feel like the halo detection is per pixel, which means that any dark lines won't get confused as long as they're sufficiently thick in pixel count. I tried it for clean 720p cartoon encodes, and it doesn't do any damage at the very least (or benefit much either, because they're so clean to start with)

leeperry

12th May 2016, 23:09

BTW, is there any easy way to play retail encrypted .m2ts files with mVR & Reclock? Can't really waste 40GB per movie remuxing them.

:eek::eek::eek::eek:

OMG, is this for real? The difference is unbelievable!

All the details still intact, while it only removes the ringing COMPLETELY.

Wow, I am speechless. This one feature alone is probably the best proof that madVR is so much better than anything else out in the market for video playback rendering by far.

Great work madshi!

Couldn't have said it better, :thanks:

1080p with ringing is a total waste when you can get such natural looking deringing in realtime, who needs 4K no more :p

Turns out it seems to work stunningly well with SuperRes LL@2 + AB@100 so please don't remove AB from SR anytime soon, still playing around but I certainly like what I see in combination with vanilla 100% LL SSIM2D & vanilla sxbr(whose main problem was amplifying existing ringing as I understand it).

Outrageous results really, hats off http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/mlc.gif

Warner306

12th May 2016, 23:35

What percentage of video content includes source ringing? Is this more or less common than banding with 8-bit sources?

Warner306

12th May 2016, 23:36

BTW, is there any easy way to play retail encrypted .m2ts files with mVR & Reclock? Can't really waste 40GB per movie remuxing them.

Couldn't have said it better, :thanks:

1080p with ringing is a total waste when you can get such natural looking deringing in realtime, who needs 4K no more :p

Turns out it seems to work stunningly well with SuperRes LL@2 + AB@100 so please don't remove AB from SR anytime soon, still playing around but I certainly like what I see in combination with vanilla 100% LL SSIM2D & vanilla sxbr(whose main problem was amplifying existing ringing as I understand it).

Outrageous results really, hats off http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/mlc.gif

Anti-bloating tends to cancel out legitimate sharpening when used with SuperRes; at least, that's been my finding. It only bloats when combined with another sharpener such as crispen edges.

CarlosCaco

13th May 2016, 01:27

Hey madshi the new options on madvr are amazing...
I know we already talk about this but in would like to ask you to rethink about and if its possible implement on madvr
The resolution of my tv is 1366x768 (Windows says that native is 1360x768 but in tv datasheets says 1366x768, i use the two resolutions depending on the movie fps)
That implies aways upscaling or downscaling the movies
I almost watch 720p content and on this movie resolution madvr don't allow me to use upscaling refinements only image refinements because is small scaling factor near the movies native resolution
I like to use some sharpen because its not a big screen and the sharpen plus enhance details give me for depht
But seens that using some of the sharpen algos and upscaling after produces a little distortion on image, more bloated, and ant bloating filter poduces some extra blur and great loss of depht
I really like sharpen edge but seens that to get more depht with ab before scaling i have to use bigger strenghts but ant bloat sometimes produces some strange distortions and much blur when use before scalling
Adaptive sharpen plus ab is great but is unusable in this scenario because using both give me more distortion and dont reduces the oil paint apparence../
In some past version (can t remember the version that this has changed) madvr allowed to use upscalling refinements on such smallers scaling factors even 1919 to 1920 on my other laptop that is full hd and the effect was pretty good much less artificial... And for last this limitation don t let me use super resolution wich produces good natural sharpen results even with this small scalling factor... Same for supersampling that don t allow using upscalling refinements with this resolution, but in the past if i checked aways when upscaling is required the refinements were used... I don t really have much interest in supersampling but really want to use upscaling refinements when scaling 720 to 768 especialy the antibloat
Im on my phone now but this weekend i can make some screenshots examples of
Ant bloat loss of quality if used pre resizing, i made some tests scaling on avysinth... To see the effect after scalling...
Can you allow use upscalling refinements to smal scaling factors?

XMonarchY

13th May 2016, 01:46

Like madshi said, it's a problem when studios use certain scalers or sharpeners to resize a master down to the DVD or blu ray. He says that it's not from compression, but I find it sometimes helps with light ringing from compression (h264 is like jpeg. Everything gets turned into a lossy Fourier function which inherently introduces ringing)

You could probably try removing dark haloing for anime if your sources are high enough resolution. I feel like the halo detection is per pixel, which means that any dark lines won't get confused as long as they're sufficiently thick in pixel count. I tried it for clean 720p cartoon encodes, and it doesn't do any damage at the very least (or benefit much either, because they're so clean to start with)

Thanks. Madshi posted comparison picture and the one for Dark Halo Removal was VERY blurry. When combined with the De-Ringer, does Dark Halo Removal make the image blurrier too?

Uoppi

13th May 2016, 06:21

Anti-bloating tends to cancel out legitimate sharpening when used with SuperRes; at least, that's been my finding. It only bloats when combined with another sharpener such as crispen edges.

Do you mean the AB tick box of SuperRes specifically - or any AB (downscaling, doubling, enhancements) used simultaneously with SuperRes?

Werewolfy

13th May 2016, 12:45

madVR v0.90.18 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added new deringing algorithm
* added dering key shortcut and file name tag ("dering(ing)=on/off/half/full")
* fixed: upscaling refinement wasn't always active when doing supersampling
* fixed: Jinc upscaling was replaced by Lanczos3 when upscaling in only X or Y
* fixed: some graphical corruption when combining NNEDI3 + SSIM2D + Anti-Bloat
* fixed: image was too bright with linear light down- and sigmoidal upscaling
* fixed: sometimes HDR SMPTE 2086 metadata got lost
Here are a few image comparisons that show how my new deringing algorithm compares to AviSynth's "DeHalo_alpha" (default settings) deringing script:

clown:
no deringing (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/clownNoDering.png) - - | - - DeHalo_alpha (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/clownDeHaloAlpha.png) - - | - - madVR (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/clownMadVR.png)

some anime:
no deringing (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/animeNoDering.png) - - | - - DeHalo_alpha (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/animeDeHaloAlpha.png) - - | - - madVR (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/animeMadVR.png)

light house:
no deringing (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/lightHouseNoDering.png) - - | - - DeHalo_alpha (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/lightHouseDeHaloAlpha.png) - - | - - madVR (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/lightHouseMadVR.png)

some movie:
no deringing (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/movieNoDering.png) - - | - - DeHalo_alpha (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/movieDeHaloAlpha.png) - - | - - madVR (http://madVR.com/doom9/dering/movieMadVR.png)

Your dering algorithm is very promising, it derings very well when maintaining details. It's way above DeHalo and other deringing filters I've seen so far. But sometimes it adds some artefacts as you can see here :

http://postimg.org/image/efe86s6f5/full/

Also note that the color of the door is slighlty different and the lines on the bottom of the wall just next to the door are narrower.

Here I found it too agressive on 2 spots :

http://postimg.org/image/durdyqd8h/

Could you improve a little bit the situation? Personnaly, I would prefer to have a lower deringing strength with fewer artefacts and better details preservation.

iSunrise

13th May 2016, 15:25

What percentage of video content includes source ringing? Is this more or less common than banding with 8-bit sources?
Ringing is very common when the source master is of lower resolution than the target resolution (especially old DVD masters, less common on newer DVDs or Blu-Rays, since the studios went back again to do at least a 2K scan of the negatives) and the studios upscaled and sharpened the picture to much.

It's not limited to only film content, but also animes or live action performances.

cremor

13th May 2016, 16:05

Did anyone else notice that image doubling seems to sometimes activate in v0.90.18 when it shouldn't?
When I play a movie in windowed mode (scale 0,0,1920,1080 -> 138,0,1782,925) madVR performs image doubling and image downscaling (image > suber-xbr < SSim2D100 AR) although only downscaling is needed. But it seems like it only does this if the target resolution is a little bit smaller than the source resultion. Other target resolutions (including 50%, 100% and 200%) work as expected.
My image doubling setting is "only if scaling factor is 1.5x (or bigger)".

Downgrading to v0.90.17 - without changing any setting - fixes the problem.

huhn

13th May 2016, 16:09

Warner306

13th May 2016, 18:00

Do you mean the AB tick box of SuperRes specifically - or any AB (downscaling, doubling, enhancements) used simultaneously with SuperRes?

Yes, I don't think SuperRes needs its own anti-bloating. It doesn't fatten the image as much.

Warner306

14th May 2016, 00:59

Ringing is very common when the source master is of lower resolution than the target resolution (especially old DVD masters, less common on newer DVDs or Blu-Rays, since the studios went back again to do at least a 2K scan of the negatives) and the studios upscaled and sharpened the picture to much.

It's not limited to only film content, but also animes or live action performances.

Does anti-ringing do anything for compression artifacts:

"The signal is bandwidth-limited, discarding too much information for high frequencies."

Farfie

14th May 2016, 02:29

Apologies.

huhn

14th May 2016, 03:20

https://skipe.pro/evvw7e.png
Uh, I think something wrong is going on here... I think it started happening after I updated nvidias drivers today (to 365.19), but I'm not sure as I haven't been watching as much as I wish lately. In fullscreen it acts normal, but when downscaling it's upscaling with nnedi3 first before downscaling?

known issue.

Uoppi

14th May 2016, 09:31

As madVR forces Lanczos and Bicubic 150 on top of NNEDI3 when deinterlacing, I decided to try SXBR quadrupling instead to circumvent that.

A couple of questions arose though:

1) When used in combination with SSIM (1D 100) AB + AR downscaling, which one of the below SD -> 1080p configurations should be expected to yield the most optimal results, at least theoretically speaking? I'm not sure I'm seeing much of a difference apart from different rendering times:

a) SXBR anti-bloat 25 doubling + SXBR (50 or more) quadrupling
b) SXBR (100 or less) doubling + SXBR 25 anti-bloat quadrupling
c) SXBR 25 anti-bloat for both doubling and quadrupling

2) Is there much point in using AB also with SSIM downscaling if already using SXBR AB for doubling and/or quadrupling? Again, I don't know if I can spot a difference or if it's placebo (but would at least like to optimize resource use of course).

BluesFanUK

14th May 2016, 14:19

Sunspark

14th May 2016, 14:50

Slightly off topic (and perhaps me being a bit thick) - Anyone use a 1440p monitor here?
...
I have read 1440 is a bad screen size for watching films/tv shows/streaming as it doesn't have a 1:1 scale like 4K would from 1080, only that it benefits games. Have a 980ti so I have the graphical grunt for MadVR but just wondering whether it's worth moving up screen size from a 23" 1080p monitor to a 25"/27" 1440p one. I'm presuming there are no adverse affect with MadVR too (besides being able to use less settings at the higher res)?

Focus on the aspect ratio.. I have a 2048x1152 monitor, which is an odd size, but it is 16:9 so there are no issues with upscaling without black bars. I often do watch it with black bars around the 1080p image though given the small size difference. I'm not sure there is any point running a scaler to take it from 1080 to 1152 as with any device other than the PC, non-PC needs to be done by the monitor's built-in scaler, on a PC it is better done in madvr luma upscaling algorithms of madvr rather than the monitor which is best set at 1:1 image to speed up processing and maintain native pixel scale.

There are some really odd form factors out there these days, I've seen some unusual ultrawide monitors intended to be a replacement for two monitors side by side, etc.

CarlosCaco

14th May 2016, 15:10

madshi, is there a way to resize the MadVR settings window or collapse all the profiiles upon opening the window?

I've finally managed to set up a number of profiles for different resolutions under both processing and scaling algorithms, but it's a pain having to scoll to find each one.

You don't need to scroll to find the profile for Every resolution change, instead you can set the profile auto select rules and/or you can define hotkeys for each profile

Sunspark

14th May 2016, 15:42

Hi, am I the only one who finds the layout of the options non-intuitive?

To explain, in processing > image enchancements, it is the same as scaling algorithms > upscaling refinement except that the latter has a superres toggle.

I think the superres toggle is both luma and chroma after scaling, whereas the superres in chroma upscaling is before, so it is possible to superres chroma twice.. maybe. Both are just called superres though. Only in the forums is one referred to as superchromares but not actually in madvr itself.

I think processing image enchancements is before scaling, and scaling algorithims upscaling refinement is after.. so it is possible to sharpen edges (random example) twice if you toggle it in both image enchancements and upscaling refinement panels as they can be set independently. The checkbox is not either/or exclusive.

Then in the processing's artifact removal, the reduce ringing artifacts brand new option is there, but the chroma and image upscaling options in the scaling algorithms category also have checkboxes for "activate anti-ringing filter".. so maybe it is possible to anti-ring twice if you check it in both the upscaling and the processing artifact removal.. As a user I wonder with the new deringer, should the anti-ringer be de-selected from chroma/luma upscaling as those are the older settings..

I feel that there are a lot of options that while perhaps they occur at different stages in the rendering pipeline, seem to lend themselves to being activated more often than they should be, whether by design or user error.

leeperry

14th May 2016, 15:59

What percentage of video content includes source ringing? Is this more or less common than banding with 8-bit sources?

Actually I'm starting to wonder whether some/most/all to some extent camera optics don't create ringing to begin with and it'll only get worse with cheap optics because plastic provides very low constringence so mix it with poor MTF sharpness, several slightly decentred daisychained lenses and bam! you got yourself some very nice ringing/fringing/chromatic aberrations :devil:

I haven't had much time to play with that new feature just yet but it sort of looks like fixing the R/G/B panels misconverges of a LCD projector as edges look cleaner and less noisy. Anyway so far I'm totally sold and couldn't imagine turning it off ><

BluesFanUK

14th May 2016, 16:25

You don't need to scroll to find the profile for Every resolution change, instead you can set the profile auto select rules and/or you can define hotkeys for each profile

Think you mis-understood. I have the profiles set up with the auto select rules, that's not an issue. My issue is I have all these profiles set up under scaling algorithms and processing, but when you open MadVR to change a setting every single folder is open, creating a fairly large scrolling bar.

YxP

14th May 2016, 16:46

Hi, am I the only one who finds the layout of the options non-intuitive?

I think the settings are pretty clear if you know what you are doing. Remember, MadVR isn't even 1.0 yet and very much work in progress. Also, dering isn't the same as anti-ring so they they all can and IMO should be enabled.

Uoppi

14th May 2016, 16:56

BluesFanUK, I know, it can be confusing and requires some reading and testing.

Anyway, enhancement seems less resource-hungry than refinement and also is the only option if you want additional sharpening when not upscaling (i.e. 1080p material on 1080p screen). Likewise the new de-ring and the old anti-ringing algorithms are two different things (as has been discussed on previous pages), so they can be used together if needed.

Someone else can comment on the particulars of SuperRes but anyway I don't use it on chroma at all because I don't like the additional sharpening effect (I do use AR though with Super-XBR 100, which has a great cost-performance ratio compared to NNEDI3).

Sunspark

14th May 2016, 19:37

Possible bug, "disable calibration controls for this display" still allows use of the enable gamma processing function so it is unclear what the difference would be between disable and "already calibrated".

That said, I observed that brightness 15 appears the same as enable gamma processing pure power curve transfer function 1.95 and brightness 25 is the same as 1.80.

phm

14th May 2016, 20:57

Hi

Perhaps this is not the first time being discussed but I am curious as to whether I am doing something wrong.

I have downloaded a video with hdr, this one in particular: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=144

When I use enhanced video renderer it looks fine but when I use madvr it looks wrong: http://imgur.com/XPLQ320

Is there a setting I must change or is this a bug or compatibility issue?

I am using mpchc 64 bit and lav filters v0.68.1 and the latest version of madvr (0.90.18)

Warner306

14th May 2016, 21:45

huhn

14th May 2016, 22:19

To explain, in processing > image enchancements, it is the same as scaling algorithms > upscaling refinement except that the latter has a superres toggle.
they are not the same.
image enhancement is always used. upscale refinement only when image is scaled

I think the superres toggle is both luma and chroma after scaling, whereas the superres in chroma upscaling is before, so it is possible to superres chroma twice.. maybe. Both are just called superres though. Only in the forums is one referred to as superchromares but not actually in madvr itself.

YCbCr is converted to RGB after chroma scaling so there is not chroma anymore.
there are exceptions but that's complicated and done to save a lot of performance.

I think processing image enchancements is before scaling, and scaling algorithims upscaling refinement is after.. so it is possible to sharpen edges (random example) twice if you toggle it in both image enchancements and upscaling refinement panels as they can be set independently. The checkbox is not either/or exclusive.

and what is the problem with that?

some filter are better before scaling than after scaling.

Then in the processing's artifact removal, the reduce ringing artifacts brand new option is there, but the chroma and image upscaling options in the scaling algorithms category also have checkboxes for "activate anti-ringing filter".. so maybe it is possible to anti-ring twice if you check it in both the upscaling and the processing artifact removal.. As a user I wonder with the new deringer, should the anti-ringer be de-selected from chroma/luma upscaling as those are the older settings..

the new anti ringing filter is removing ringing from the source.
and the anti ringing features for chroma and image scaling are there to remove ringing from scaling or stops them from adding ringing.

they are totally different.

I feel that there are a lot of options that while perhaps they occur at different stages in the rendering pipeline, seem to lend themselves to being activated more often than they should be, whether by design or user error.

i don't think so.

Hi

Perhaps this is not the first time being discussed but I am curious as to whether I am doing something wrong.

I have downloaded a video with hdr, this one in particular: http://demo-uhd3d.com/fiche.php?cat=uhd&id=144

When I use enhanced video renderer it looks fine but when I use madvr it looks wrong: http://imgur.com/XPLQ320

Is there a setting I must change or is this a bug or compatibility issue?

I am using mpchc 64 bit and lav filters v0.68.1 and the latest version of madvr (0.90.18)

the file is buggy. it has totally wrong nits information.

huhn

14th May 2016, 22:19

phm

14th May 2016, 22:21

Read the section on HDR in this post (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2238942#pid2238942).

I'm guessing you need to adjust the peak luminance value (increase it).

Thanks. I have experimented with the settings mentioned in the guide, but the result is somewhat similar. Note that changing the HDR peak illuminance doesn't affect the result at all.

I also tried downloading the latest version of mpchc but this didn't make a difference

EDIT:

the file is buggy. it has totally wrong nits information.

Thanks, this explain it then! Is it possible to force the nits of the file to a custom value?