madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 1277

thighhighs

25th January 2023, 16:22

ashlar42

25th January 2023, 18:13

flossy_cake
Personaly I do not use additional processing (sharpening) at all. I use NGU AA for SD and Standard for 720p. And very satisfied.
For 1080 -> 2160 I would like to use NGU Sharp. I did this for the 2160 screen. But my screen is now 1080.

For 2160 -> 1080, a sharp algorithm is also enough for me. This is how I watch my favorite movies. madVR gives me an advantage over 1080 blu-ray. For example, Dune 4K old/new, Jaws 4K, Predator 4K, Alien 4K, the Thing 4K, The Hobbit 4K and others. Also Doom 4K and RE2 4K are actualy "upscaled-4k" but look much better.
The only time I'm really disappointed is Monster Hunter 4K. The result is too dim even with 100nits. 1080 blu-ray is much better, but maybe it's not madVR's fault, I don't know.
I'm no expert but if you choose NGU Sharp over Soft, Standard or Anti-Alias it's pretty clear you, in fact, are applying some form of sharpening to the picture. Just using a different route. And there's where flossy cake suggestion comes into its own. You might have overlooked options that allow you a finer control on what happens to the picture.

flossy_cake

26th January 2023, 08:01

These are my sharpening presets in case anyone finds them useful. I tuned them so that for example the mid setting would appear subjectively similar "strength" on SD content regardless of algorithm.

Lumasharpen low: 0.65
Lumasharpen mid: 1.30
Lumasharpen high: 1.95
Lumasharpen max: 2.60

Adaptivesharpen low: 0.2
Adaptivesharpen mid: 0.4
Adaptivesharpen high: 0.6
Adaptivesharpen max: 0.8

Customsharpen low (sharpen, crispen, thin, enhance): 0.5, 0.5, 0.5, 0.5
Customsharpen mid (sharpen, crispen, thin, enhance): 1.0, 1.0, 1.0, 0.5
Customsharpen high (sharpen, crispen, thin, enhance): 1.5, 1.5, 1.0, 0.5
Customsharpen max (sharpen, crispen, thin, enhance): 2.0, 2.0, 1.0, 0.5

Antibloat filter: unticked for all
Antiringing filter: ticked for all

I subjectively prefer Customsharpen low and mid for SD content. The "thin edges" seems good at creating the illusion of higher resolution image, but beware it does change the appearance of fonts quite a bit which is why I cap it at 1.0. I'm also capping "enhance detail" at 0.5 as it enhances compression artefacts, but it is good at creating illusion of detail in textures like wood grain or stone texture in walls, so if you have a clean source you can run it higher.

As I said previously I generally don't feel the need to use sharpening for native HD sources so I'm not a sharpening whore or anything. I just subjectively feel SD on a big screen is problematic and needs something extra. A lot of the time the sharpening will be baked into the source by the company that did the mastering and I don't feel those particular shows or movies need anything extra. eg. was watching I'm Alan Partridge S01E01 yesterday and didn't feel it needed any extra sharpening, seems to have sharpening baked into the source already.

sebna

27th January 2023, 01:11

sebna

27th January 2023, 01:42

kopija: You should see if your monitor can do 23.976/24/25 refresh rates. Mine is able to on the HDMI input. If it is able to, then you never need to use smooth motion, etc.

But how do you force PC to output 23.976hz? Or are you happy with 23.976fps to be sent as 24hz refresh rate?

flossy_cake

27th January 2023, 06:43

When I tried to experiment with downscaling 4k to 1080p (my PJ is native 1080p) I found that limited options for downscaling in compare to upscaling were not producing natural looking SQ at all. I found BD rips played native 1080p better looking than 4k rips downscaled to 1080p.

Was I doing it wrong and it is matter of finding sweet spot of settings or is it expected for it to be as described? Any good settings recommendation for downscaling as described?

I'm struggling to think of a reason why downscaling 4k to 1080p would cause issues, in fact it should look even better than native 1080 given the supersampling effect. I've previewed some 4k movies downscaled to 1080 using Lanczos and the result looks very good, but all of the algorithms look good and I don't think you should need to tweak anything. What do you mean by "not natural"? Can you post a screenshot?

Sunspark

27th January 2023, 07:41

Any good settings recommendation for downscaling as described?

Bicubic50/Catmull-Rom, scale in linear light checked, activate anti-ringing filter relaxed checked.

But how do you force PC to output 23.976hz? Or are you happy with 23.976fps to be sent as 24hz refresh rate?

With a hdmi connection to the display, if you do the switching in madvr you would find that in the devices display modes section of madvr. For 23.976 you need to write 1080p23

You can also set it up in the player instead, playback fullscreen section.

Your milage may vary as it depends to a certain extent on what edid blocks are present. This won't work with dvi for example, with that you'd have to do futzing about with the video driver instead defining a custom resolution and even then it might not let you.. but happily, on my display it already had support for it on the hdmi connection.

sebna

27th January 2023, 13:38

I'm struggling to think of a reason why downscaling 4k to 1080p would cause issues, in fact it should look even better than native 1080 given the supersampling effect. I've previewed some 4k movies downscaled to 1080 using Lanczos and the result looks very good, but all of the algorithms look good and I don't think you should need to tweak anything. What do you mean by "not natural"? Can you post a screenshot?

Thanks I have to do more testing. I think I had issues with it looking like painted with thick brush strokes. It looked fat and unnatural. I have to try different algorithms.

Am I right to assume that it is possible to use tone mapping with downscaling at the same time?

sebna

27th January 2023, 13:40

Bicubic50/Catmull-Rom, scale in linear light checked, activate anti-ringing filter relaxed checked.

With a hdmi connection to the display, if you do the switching in madvr you would find that in the devices display modes section of madvr. For 23.976 you need to write 1080p23

You can also set it up in the player instead, playback fullscreen section.

Your milage may vary as it depends to a certain extent on what edid blocks are present. This won't work with dvi for example, with that you'd have to do futzing about with the video driver instead defining a custom resolution and even then it might not let you.. but happily, on my display it already had support for it on the hdmi connection.

Thanks, I will try those down scaling algorithms. I assume I can still use tone mapping while downscaling?

Would 1080p24 be not more correct with 23.976 being more 24p than 23p?

Thanks

brazen1

27th January 2023, 16:53

Thanks, I will try those down scaling algorithms. I assume I can still use tone mapping while downscaling?

Would 1080p24 be not more correct with 23.976 being more 24p than 23p?

Thanks

No. There is 23.976 video and 24.000 video.

flossy_cake

27th January 2023, 16:54

Asmodian

27th January 2023, 17:08

Would 1080p24 be not more correct with 23.976 being more 24p than 23p?

23 Hz in Windows means 23.976 Hz, not 23.000 Hz. :)

Or at least close, since the GPU never does a perfect refresh rate.

sebna

27th January 2023, 18:07

23.976 and 24.000 are two completely different formats that aren't compatible with eachother. If you play back 23.976 at 24.000hz you will have 1 repeated frame every 41.7083 seconds. The vast majority of movies and shows are 23.976 (specifically 24.000/1.001, and yes even this precision matters otherwise if you are off by 0.001hz you will still have a frame skip every 16 minutes and if it happens when the camera happens to be panning it is noticeable). Then there are some European releases of Blurays like eg. those from Studio Canal are 24.000 so you'll need to setup 2 display modes to get them both playing perfectly & this is what I did using Custom Resolution Utility but it is very difficult and needed a very specific settings combination to work and what works for one system won't necessarily work for another.

edit: forgot to mention you can use an Avisynth script to speed up or slow down the frame rate (the audio will get sped up and slowed down to remain in sync) eg. this is for slowing down 25.000 to 23.976:

DirectShowSource("C:\Some 25fps video.mkv")
AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, true)
# http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FPS#AssumeFPS

Then you just save the above as a .avs file and open it with the media player.

Very interesting so http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FPS#AssumeFPS does what ReClock used to do? Or does it work differently?

Also extremely interesting if true what you guys are saying about refresh rates.

Let me rehash it - you claim that 23hz setting in NV CP is not 23hz but in fact 23.976? If so why is not called so?

I am asking because I always though (based of name of the option) that 23hz in CP is 23hz refresh rate is what FPS is sent to the display device which gets a flag for 23hz.

But you say that NV is actually sending cinematic 23.976 FPS? Are you sure?

If I am right than less problems would cause 24hz setting as obviously it is much closer to 23.976 than 23hz.

Thanks

Klaus1189

27th January 2023, 18:30

Also extremely interesting if true what you guys are saying about refresh rates.

That is true ;)
Just look up advanced display settings of Windows 10. I made a screenshot of mine:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lq2UsSi4tlA_QzeDLT973y0KhnfCWPB9/view?usp=share_link

23 Hz -> 23.976 Hz -> exactly 24/1.001 Hz
24 Hz -> 24.000 Hz -> exactly 24 Hz
25 Hz -> 25.000 Hz -> exactly 25 Hz
29 Hz -> 29.970 Hz -> exactly 30/1.001 Hz
30 Hz -> 30.000 Hz -> exactly 30 Hz
50 Hz -> 50.000 Hz -> exactly 50 Hz
59 Hz -> 59.940 Hz -> exactly 60/1.001 Hz
60 Hz -> 60.000 Hz -> exactly 60 Hz
100 Hz -> 100.000 Hz -> exactly 100 Hz
119 Hz -> 119.880 Hz -> exactly 120/1.001 Hz
120 Hz -> 120.000 Hz -> exactly 120 Hz

Kodi has also a bug in it, but it seems that nobody cares:
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=370505

Just like for frame adaptive deinterlacing - Nobody cares
https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=370507
I am so glad to be here :)

Let me rehash it - you claim that 23hz setting in NV CP is not 23hz but in fact 23.976? If so why is not called so?

23 Hz is used to let you know that it is 23.976 and not 24.000p.
24 Hz is for 24.000p
23.976 is exactly 24/1.001
just like 29 Hz is 29.970 and exactly 30/1.001
just like 59 Hz is 59.940 and exactly 60/1.001
just like 119 Hz is 119,880 and exactly 120/1.001

I am asking because I always though (based of name of the option) that 23hz in CP is 23hz refresh rate is what FPS is sent to the display device which gets a flag for 23hz.

But you say that NV is actually sending cinematic 23.976 FPS? Are you sure?

If I am right than less problems would cause 24hz setting as obviously it is much closer to 23.976 than 23hz.

Have you ever looks at OSD stats in madVR? press CTRL + J during playback and take a look for yourself ;)

flossy_cake

27th January 2023, 18:43

Very interesting so http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FPS#AssumeFPS does what ReClock used to do? Or does it work differently?

I don't know how ReClock works but it's 32-bit only (not compatible with 64-bit media players) so that's why I never used it. But I'd prefer to use Avisynth anyway as I feel like I'm more in control. You can also do pitch correction with eg. TimeStretch(pitch=((25000.0/1000.0)/(24000.0/1001.0))*100) which increases the pitch from 23.976 to 25.000 without changing the length of the audio, which is useful for example if a 25.000 video already had pitch correction baked into it by the company that did the 23.976 -> 25.000 conversion in the first place (otherwise the pitch would be too low when you slowed it back down to 23.976 with AssumeFPS(24000, 1001, true)).

But you say that NV is actually sending cinematic 23.976 FPS? Are you sure?

In addition to ctrl+J you can also measure it at www.vsynctester.com

Asmodian

27th January 2023, 19:45

Very interesting so http://avisynth.nl/index.php/FPS#AssumeFPS does what ReClock used to do? Or does it work differently?

ReClock changes the audio clock so the video+audio plays in sync with the video displayed at the monitor's refresh rate.

AssumeFPS changes the video frame rate, optionally changing the audio sample rate to maintain sync. It has nothing to do with the monitor's actual refresh rate. In a way it is similar, except that it assumes the video and audio clocks are perfect while ReClock compensates for the slight inaccuracies of both.

Sunspark

27th January 2023, 20:53

sebna, you can just see for yourself what the refresh is in use by looking at the HUD. ctrl-J while video playing.

sebna

28th January 2023, 01:06

Thank you guys. I will be back to experimenting with it soon enough and hopefully will be able to resolve micro-stutters (not related to 23fps source material limitations) I was experiencing last time I tried it.

Asmodian

28th January 2023, 18:37

sebna

28th January 2023, 22:32

If you have a high refresh rate display (100+ Hz) then madVR's smooth motion is excellent. I use it on my 120 and 144 Hz screens. Smooth motion works even better for me, I don't notice the theoretically softer image even on a 65" screen. Others do say they notice, so try doing some blind testing. ;)

It isn't ideal theoretically, but it is very nice not needing to setup custom refresh rates that still aren't quite perfect and sometimes need to be re-tuned.

I am a purist :D. Anything mastered in 23.973fps has to stay like it and I don't use motion enchantments. That was my biggest gripe with MadVR when I was trying to make it work last time, I was not able to get it to correctly handle 23.976fps (I mean all options were in theory set correctly but there was ever present, on the edge of perception, micro stutter.

I am sure it must be possible to get it right. I just have to try more NV drivers and more fine tuning of settings like pre-render frames etc.

I am using GTX 1080 but all I need is tone mapping and chroma upscale and maybe downscaling to native resolution of my PJ (JVC X7900).

0 problems like this with my Pana 820 :)...

huhn

29th January 2023, 10:20

it isn't motion "enhancement". it is still the creators intend.

the point for SM is to create an image that is the same as native refresh rate.
it's mostly made for display that can't do the native refresh rate.
what so ever moving on.

micro stutter is a broad term.
so when you are frame rate matching you have "microstutter" from sync issues and that's not micro because an entire frame is missing/delayed and or repeated. the OSD should capture this.
no queue setting will ever fix that because on a PC sync is far more complicated and depends on the audio clock which where the video clock is slaved too.

for AMD and intel the GPU audio clock is usually in sync with the video clock (they may even be the same).
with nvidia this is not the case the 23p refreshrate is usually not "perfectly" in sync with GPU audio with would be ~2 hour plus. having a repeated dropped frame in the range of ~4mins(it's been a long time since it was that bad) to hours in newer driver.

a good clock on AMD or intel is not a given.

then there is the issue with nvidia cards where madVR doesn't even know frames are dropped/repeated but that was "never" reported for 1000 series cards. these cards should work just fine with normal queues.

before it is possible to help we need to know what the problem is.

reclock is just resampling to match the video clock like 48k to 48004 this is lossy there is alternative audio renderer that can do that not with bit streaming obviously.

assumefps just changes the CFR frame times of the video not sure why that should be of any help here i mean we are talking about tone mapping and such realtime avisynth is not really an option...

assumefps with sync_audio would be similar to reclock but the other way around. just use a custom refreshrate.

huhn
What do you think about the SSIM2D? I remember your posts about Biсubiс150, but not about SSIM2D.
i hate bicubic 150 it's only save for still standing images.
i had a talk about it with madshi a couple of months ago and back in the day when volt who fixed it in mpc-be.

it tends to show aliasing in sharp sources when in motion (like details showing up that got lost in scaling) my old and wrong theory was that it had something todo with convolution because volt used that term (not blaming or saying you are wrong) but bicubic itself is a convolution so dahhh.
the bicubic in mpcVR is also pristine so it is fixable or at least seem so.

so use ssim with default settings it's not that expensive just try it with a sharp source not these very soft ones.
the difference in the image make it not worth it at least on these soft sources but using ssim to avoid possible motion issue clear is IMHO.

flossy_cake

29th January 2023, 15:05

Smoothmotion is just frame blending which is the crudest form of frame rate conversion. But at high refresh rate it is less noticeable, but I still don't really understand why without knowing the coefficients that madvr is using to weight each blended frame for the final output. If every frame of the 120hz output is blended then I don't see why that wouldn't still look significantly blurrier. Doesn't matter if each blended frame is being held up for shorter period if heaps of them are still blended. And it's a waste cause 24 goes into 120hz 5:5.

But I use frame blending when using TDecimate(mode=1, hybrid=1, viddetect=2, vidthresh=4.5, chroma=false, denoise=true) (http://avisynth.nl/index.php/TIVTC/TDecimate) so when a 24fps DVD contains 30fps sections they get frame blended to 24fps, like the intro to Sliders with the rotating earths is a 30fps animation which don't go into 24 so it looks a bit better blended instead of stutter:

https://i1.lensdump.com/i/T8eG11.png

But, I'm working on a better Avisynth solution where the final output is 60p to avoid frame blending altogether, but the downside is the 24p sections, i.e most of the content, will have 3:2 judder. Still trying to decide if it's worth it. Some episodes actually have quite a lot of non-24p sections in them, so it would be nice to have just for those video-centric episodes.

huhn

29th January 2023, 15:15

just use VFR and this is the madVR thread.

it not even close to what that does there are barely any blended frames at all. if you blend every frame than the frame rate is pointless.
i explained it before and i will not do it again it is very very simple to understand how it works but hard to implement.

flossy_cake

29th January 2023, 16:04

just use VFR

Can't do that in real time - have to transcode to a new VFR file which takes ages for DVD collection, burn cpu for many days transcoding, generation loss image quality, reduced compatibility with media players & media devices, can't go back and tweak the script otherwise have to reencode everything from scratch. So much nicer to have a real time modular extensible tweakable lightweight solution.

it not even close to what that does there are barely any blended frames at all.

The problem is we don't have the tools to properly check what madvr is actually outputting at 120hz sm. If you recall I tried using OBS to record the screen but that only went up to 60fps recording and if you record at 120fps it would need to be perfectly vsynced and not dropping any frames in the recording. Then we can inspect each frame 1 by 1 and see how many of them madvr is actually blending. But yes I do seem to recall that in my experiments randomly taking screenshots it took a few attempts to randomly capture a blended frame at 120hz so I think you are right that there are less blended frames at 120hz compared to 60hz. Still, it's disappointing to have to put blended frames in when 24 goes nicely in 120. It's just "bad philosophy" or something in my books. It's like "yeah, this should be working without blended frames, but it isn't, so I'm just gonna bodge a solution with blended frames and say good enough". Doesn't sit well with me, but that is just my opinion. The satisfaction of tweaking my 23hz mode to 1 repeat frame every 12 hours was more satisfying, but I appreciate not everyone will be able to do this so in many cases sm will be the only option.

Siso

29th January 2023, 16:23

Tweaking a display sooner or later will result in some sort of malfunction, talking from my own personal experience.

huhn

29th January 2023, 16:30

HDMI capture cards and yes it has been done.
it's 48 frames at all refreshrates higher than 48 for 24p source for 120HZ ~96 originals and ~24 blended which are as far apart as possible shown for 8.3 MS which is not rarely lower than the response time of LCD displays. it's not like i already explained it in detail and mpc-hc is literally telling you what madVR does.

using SM to avoid any frame rate issues because it's good enough but not wanting to go for VFR is not very convincing. while considering the blending of 30p into 24. hardware deint is pretty good BTW.

madVR can do that too BTW. i called it terrible madshi called it working as designed.

huhn

29th January 2023, 16:32

Tweaking a display sooner or later will result in some sort of malfunction, talking from my own personal experience.
sad to hear.
i always wanted a warning in it there is a reason intel AMD and nvidia are warning the user doing so.

flossy_cake

29th January 2023, 16:46

Tweaking a display sooner or later will result in some sort of malfunction, talking from my own personal experience.

Yeah I remember you said that , and it did concern me a little bit. I am making sure to tweak only within a range of +/- 5% of CTA spec timings (that's all you should need to correct it) and I seem to recall VESA says +/-5% is acceptable tolerance. If you have repeat frames then you are only slowing the clock down and not running it higher/faster than spec which should be safe but I guess you never really know what's going on at the hardware level (or the driver is screwing something up and not giving you the timings you asked for). On top of this my TV is 10 years old and only cost $500 brand new, I already tweaked the pots Vsus Vscan Vreset probably out of spec too but that's what I need for a clean picture. "All or nothing" look how many service menu tweaks you need on LG OLED to turn off all the dimming.

it's 48 frames at all refreshrates higher than 48 for 24p source for 120HZ ~96 originals and ~24 blended which are as far apart as possible shown for 8.3 MS which is not rarely lower than the response time of LCD displays..

Thanks for this info

e-t172

29th January 2023, 18:03

I stopped using SM the day I moved to a 120 Hz display. I don't see the point.

When playing 23.976 FPS content at ~119.88 Hz, frame drops/repeats should be relatively rare (basically only caused by clock drift), and when they do happen, all it means is that a single frame that was supposed to be displayed for 41.7 ms will be displayed for an extra (or minus) 8.3 ms. I doubt I'd be able to notice that.

huhn

29th January 2023, 22:48

if it only changes the sync by 8.33 ms than it is still off.
that means you have to do that 5 times as often to keep in sync or have the same result as 23p there is nothing in between. i'm pretty sure madVR does the full range thing and not the i display a frame longer or shorter by 8.33 ms so nothing changes.

sebna

30th January 2023, 02:25

it isn't motion "enhancement". it is still the creators intend.

the point for SM is to create an image that is the same as native refresh rate.
it's mostly made for display that can't do the native refresh rate.
what so ever moving on.

micro stutter is a broad term.
so when you are frame rate matching you have "microstutter" from sync issues and that's not micro because an entire frame is missing/delayed and or repeated. the OSD should capture this.
no queue setting will ever fix that because on a PC sync is far more complicated and depends on the audio clock which where the video clock is slaved too.

for AMD and intel the GPU audio clock is usually in sync with the video clock (they may even be the same).
with nvidia this is not the case the 23p refreshrate is usually not "perfectly" in sync with GPU audio with would be ~2 hour plus. having a repeated dropped frame in the range of ~4mins(it's been a long time since it was that bad) to hours in newer driver.

a good clock on AMD or intel is not a given.

then there is the issue with nvidia cards where madVR doesn't even know frames are dropped/repeated but that was "never" reported for 1000 series cards. these cards should work just fine with normal queues.

before it is possible to help we need to know what the problem is.

reclock is just resampling to match the video clock like 48k to 48004 this is lossy there is alternative audio renderer that can do that not with bit streaming obviously.

assumefps just changes the CFR frame times of the video not sure why that should be of any help here i mean we are talking about tone mapping and such realtime avisynth is not really an option...

assumefps with sync_audio would be similar to reclock but the other way around. just use a custom refreshrate.

i hate bicubic 150 it's only save for still standing images.
i had a talk about it with madshi a couple of months ago and back in the day when volt who fixed it in mpc-be.

it tends to show aliasing in sharp sources when in motion (like details showing up that got lost in scaling) my old and wrong theory was that it had something todo with convolution because volt used that term (not blaming or saying you are wrong) but bicubic itself is a convolution so dahhh.
the bicubic in mpcVR is also pristine so it is fixable or at least seem so.

so use ssim with default settings it's not that expensive just try it with a sharp source not these very soft ones.
the difference in the image make it not worth it at least on these soft sources but using ssim to avoid possible motion issue clear is IMHO.

Thank you for willingness to help. It will be few weeks before I am back to testing as ATM I am doing overhaul of the room.

I will report all the details of the setup then and hopefully the solution can be found.

sebna

30th January 2023, 02:28

Tweaking a display sooner or later will result in some sort of malfunction, talking from my own personal experience.

:O do you mean that adjusting detailed low level refresh rates settings like seen few pages back on screenshots can physically damage display, in my case projector?

Can it also damage AV processor seating between display and MadVR?

Sorry about noon questions.

EDIT:

So is it software like this that can damage the display?

I am guessing that normal selection of refresh rates in NV CP is completely safe?

https://i3.lensdump.com/i/Rg5AIT.png

huhn

30th January 2023, 07:12

this is nvidia stand on it:
https://abload.de/img/legalinformation66etm.png

issues are very very rare and false positives are also easily possible.
there is no difference between an AV processor or a TV they both have the same type of hardware as input.

you will find a very high number of user here that had never an issue with it.

also there is a huge difference between doing major changes like running a device at 48 or 72 that can not do anything close to it or if you are barely changing the clock at all to stop some drift.

i have a very old cheap LCD monitor which is 50 60 only if i force it to 23p it literally made sounds but it was giving a true 23p image. i didn't test it for long. this was an extreme change most devices these days will simple show a black screen and that's it nothing will happen.

flossy_cake

30th January 2023, 08:53

all it means is that a single frame that was supposed to be displayed for 41.7 ms will be displayed for an extra (or minus) 8.3 ms. I doubt I'd be able to notice that.

Yes, this is an important point. Because at 24hz display, a repeat frame will be held up for 41ms which is a long time.

Like huhn said though, you will have 5x as many of these 8ms repeats, but they should be spread out with a greater distance in between them, so maybe that's why it's less noticeable. I also run my monitor at 119.88, or should I say 120/1.001.

One of my NTSC DVDs contains some PAL converted episodes which uses cadence 3:2:3:2:2 (25p) instead of 3:2 (24p) and honestly when displaying it at 60hz I can't tell it apart from 3:2, probably for similar reasons.

also there is a huge difference between doing major changes like running a device at 48 or 72 that can not do anything close to it or if you are barely changing the clock at all to stop some drift.

Yeah I would agree with this - if it's a whole new mode that has timings that are far away from the timings supported by the monitor then it's probably a bad idea to use that mode.

But if you are +/-5% of the CTA timings supported by the monitor, then it's probably ok I would imagine?

silverfr0st

30th January 2023, 15:02

It seems to be a bug in madvr, your script should work. Using elseif is not necessary, althought recommended.

@madshi: I've narrowed it down to decimals not working in profile rules - the script is marked as valid (green "tick"), but rules don't work.
To give an example:
if (scalingFactor.x>1) "Profile 1" works correctly, while
if (scalingFactor.x>1.0) "Profile 1" doesn't work and
if (scalingFactor.x>1.5) "Profile 1" doesn't work either.
Thank you so far.
I still need some help though.

My idea is very simple:
I want madVR to pick the appropriate profile based on scaling factor and fps. I was hoping that a simple enumeration of "if" conditions would do the job, but unfortunately it doesn't.

My script looks like this:
if (scalingFactor.x = 1.0) and (scalingFactor.y = 1.0) "1.0"
if (scalingFactor.x < 1.0) and (scalingFactor.y < 1.0) "< 1.0"
if (scalingFactor.x > 1.0) and (scalingFactor.y < 1.5) "> 1.0 < 1.5"
if (scalingFactor.x > 1.5) and (scalingFactor.y < 2.2) and (deintFps <= 30) "> 2.2 <= 30fps"
if (scalingFactor.x > 1.5) and (scalingFactor.y < 2.2) and (deintFps > 30) "> 2.2 > 30fps"

Problem is, it only activates profile "1.0" (script is valid, according to madVR). I tried to insert "else" at various places, but it didn't help the way I did it.
I'd be very thankful for ideas. :)
It's been a decade long and this bug is still here?
@madshi

huhn

30th January 2023, 16:22

well been a couple years now since madshi answered anything here.

Asmodian

30th January 2023, 16:31

It's been a decade long and this bug is still here?

To work around it multiply the values by multiples of 10. :p

ryrynz

31st January 2023, 01:54

It's been a decade long and this bug is still here?
@madshiIf it doesn't apply to Envy.. Zero priority [emoji106]

djesteban

31st January 2023, 18:00

well been a couple years now since madshi answered anything here.

I mean clearly at this point it's abandonedware. It's sad that there is no active alternative/ and that it's not open source. heh

ryrynz

1st February 2023, 07:39

I mean clearly at this point it's abandonedware.

Nah, it's still in development.

x7007

1st February 2023, 08:14

I got a message to update madvr version when I opened Potplayer, but there is no new version since 165....

ryrynz

1st February 2023, 08:51

I got a message to update madvr version when I opened Potplayer, but there is no new version since 165....Yeah, ppl have already posted about it. Can't be far off..

mrbinky

1st February 2023, 12:55

Yeah, ppl have already posted about it. Can't be far off..

v0.92.18?

Siso

1st February 2023, 13:24

v0.92.18?

No, beta 166.

SirMaster

1st February 2023, 16:26

Yeah, Beta 116 comes out later today or tomorrow as per madshi.

There's been a lot of work on tone-mapping in the last couple years. It's definitely not abandoned.

Slowed down yes, but not abandoned in the slightest.

SirMaster

1st February 2023, 16:30

It's sad that there is no active alternative/ and that it's not open source. heh

I think the closest thing is libplacebo.

https://github.com/haasn/libplacebo

Which is under very active development and getting better all the time.

I would argue it has better up-scaling than even madVR and it has dynamic HDR tone-mapping, though not as good as madVR in that regard, at least not now.

mrbinky

2nd February 2023, 02:19

No, beta 166.

Why not come out with a new version after so many years?

Sunspark

2nd February 2023, 04:04

Why not come out with a new version after so many years?

He has been working on a hardware video solution the whole time. There might be a non-compete agreement.

I think the closest thing is libplacebo.

Small world, looks like commits from the old MPC-HC author are going into it.

huhn

2nd February 2023, 06:03

Why not come out with a new version after so many years?

time constrains.

why do the new beta still default to a present queue of 8 even it is very well known people often need one of 1 maybe up to 3.
it's just what it is.

why would a user need to force vsync with madVR that another time constrain i hope.

ryrynz

2nd February 2023, 06:24

I think the closest thing is libplacebo.

https://github.com/haasn/libplacebo

Which is under very active development and getting better all the time.

Doesn't look like there will be future development for the HTPC side of things based on huhn's discussion with madshi.
I'll use the betas for any under the hood improvements until I can use profiles with whatever player + libplacebo like in madVR..

time constrains.

Does Envy use the exact same madVR build though? I have to wonder if what's on Envy is different from what's provided in the test build,
with the test build maybe being basically the old HTPC build + bolted on bits of Envy features.. so no need to remove / change HTPC madVR test builds because it's "done"
and these are only for testing new features. The development time for some of these things is as you said.. minimal, so reasoning of time constraints is unlikely.