madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Siso]

By default it's ticked, the title gives you your answer..
"Trade quality for performance"
Whwn ticked This makes dithering done in gamma light which in this case doesn't yield the best results, although you may not notice the difference hence why it's ticked by default.
Basically untick everything on that page if you want the utmost quality.

Thanks, will do :)

[Magik Mark]

Guys

Is there a way for reclock to follow the channel layout of the active device? For example, when using TV which has 2 channels, it would automatically switch to stereo. If you are using AVR with 6 channels, it would switch to 5.1 channel layout.

Right now I have to make changes in LAV audio decoder. It would be nice if it can be done automatically. I think sanear and mpc audio renderes do this.

[sneaker_ger]

Try to un-tick "Enable mixing" in LAV Audio. But what does this have to do with madvr? Do you have this problem only with madvr but not with other video renderers?

[Magik Mark]

Try to un-tick "Enable mixing" in LAV Audio. But what does this have to do with madvr? Do you have this problem only with madvr but not with other video renderers?



I know it has nothing to do with madvr. However, many madvr users are also using reclock. I thought maybe they can share their experience as well with this renderer.

Unticking doesn't help


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Q-the-STORM]

Well madVR has nothing to do with audio, so this is not really the place to ask....
but shouldn't this happen automatically? do you have reclock in exclusive mode?

[Patrik G]

SuperRes filter för chroma upscaling what does it do in practice?
i can see that with the almost too sharp NGU adding SuperRes makes the image less "messy".
resolution to the image is back again.

after some more testing NGU alone for chroma upscaling is on the limit to being too sharp.
and with a too sharp image resolution is lost.
SuperRes seems to bring down that artificial added sharpness to natural/correct levels.

anyway im going to use it :)

[CruNcher]

Super-XBR 150 vs NGU Very High (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193619)

I feel NGU for chroma goes a bit overboard, super-xbr looks quite nice here.



Indeed. I should really evaluate it against NNEDI3 for some of my profiles.





Yeah, I wanted as as accurate as I could too, and huhn said the same thing to me. Like I said you only need it accurate "enough" which means if it only drops a frame every five plus hours and you never play anything over three hours you're never going to see a dropped frame. I haven't seen one since I've changed it and it's been glorious.

I might not have considered 24Hz had huhn not been so adamant about his preference for it.. The motion is just more clear at 24Hz on my plasma and really seems to pop.
It's more enjoyable and now I don't get any dropped frames so I reckon it's pretty much perfect.

How does the result looks compared to this sample

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193279

and what was the actuall source input here ?

[Buckster]

any ideas to whether a AMD 460 or 1050/1050TI would cope with the new NGU chroma etc upscaling please ?

tried it on my gaming PC (overclocked 290) and am very impressed with the results

the HTPC I am considering does not have a PCI-E power connector, so a 460 or 1050Ti are about best I could fit in if I went that route

cheers

[huhn]

polaris is performing very bad with NGU.

[Damien147]

any ideas to whether a AMD 460 or 1050/1050TI would cope with the new NGU chroma etc upscaling please ?

tried it on my gaming PC (overclocked 290) and am very impressed with the results

the HTPC I am considering does not have a PCI-E power connector, so a 460 or 1050Ti are about best I could fit in if I went that route

cheers

With rx 470 I can go till NGU med(maximum hd material) before having dropped frames but I am upscaling to 4k.

[ryrynz]

How does the result looks compared to this sample

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193279

and what was the actual source input here ?

I could cut a clip, you can find it on the film Kubo and The Two Strings @ ~2:52
Super-xbr 150AR vs NGU very high (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193699)

Since that Samara clip has been used a bit, I'll show a shot from that too.
Super-xbr 150AR vs NGU very high
(http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193700)
SuperRes filter för chroma upscaling what does it do in practice?
i can see that with the almost too sharp NGU adding SuperRes makes the image less "messy".
resolution to the image is back again.

after some more testing NGU alone for chroma upscaling is on the limit to being too sharp.
and with a too sharp image resolution is lost.
SuperRes seems to bring down that artificial added sharpness to natural/correct levels.


Though that isn't the case. SuperRes always makes it sharper, SuperRes seems like over kill to me.

From Kubo.
NGU very high vs NGU very high SuperRes 4 (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193698)

From Samara.
NGU very high vs NGU very high SuperRes 4 (http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/193701)

[dansrfe]

For some reason if I leave MPC-HC/madVR paused and the mouse/keyboard inactive long enough then either the gfx card or motherboard makes a long beep sound and reboots. The screen is set to turn off after 3 mins, a couple mins after this I hear the beep and it reboots.

OS: Windows 10 x64
Card: 670 GTX
Driver: 376.09
MPC-HC: x64, 11/7
LAV Filters
Internal Audio Renderer

D3D9 overlay
chroma > NGU-high
luma > NGU-high < Bicubic150 AR
chroma > Bicubic60 AR

[ryrynz]

Won't be anything madshi can fix. You need to troubleshoot just about everything in your setup.
Start with the software.

[Warner306]

@madshi,

Check out this post by a new user using the new image doubling menus. It is revealing what someone with basic knowledge and a good graphics card would do in these menus.

Note the choices he made (set everything on high) and what he didn't understand (downscaling after doubling and supersampling).

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188&pid=2478009#pid2478009

Maybe downscaling after doubling could be called reduce overshoot of target resolution with image downscaling.

[huhn]

if they would understand that 2x scaling can created images bigger than the target they would understand downscaling too.

in my eyes a menu that is very easy to understand is impossible and a waste of time.

there is no way to make the concept of YCbCr understandable on a setting page.

[Sean]

Don't need perfect 23.976, just close enough, although depending on card you may already be close enough without needing to do this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1781800#post1781800).

My pick with be Nvidia, seems to play a lot nicer with madVR overall plus far better power efficiency. I wouldn't bother with NNEDI3 64 neurons for chroma (I'd personally wouldn't use anything over NNEDI 3 32)
better off with NGU (if you like it sharp) try super-xbr and free up some headroom for luma stuff.

Wow, thanks for this. I'm on a 60" Panasonic ST60 and doing this has me at 23.97651 atm with 0.00200% deviation and 1 frame drop every 1.3~ days (and now sometimes saying 2-3 days). That's pretty close to perfect for a super easy change.

Edit: Double wow. Actually having MadVR read out: "No frame drops/repeats expected" on some files now. Never saw that before.

[Neo-XP]

The UI could be easier to understand to everyone if it was logical.

For instance, there should be only 2 main pages under "scaling algorithms", organized like this :

|-image upscaling
| |-luma
| |-chroma
| |-image doubling [high quality]
| |-upscaling refinement
|-image downscaling

or

|-image upscaling
| |-luma (with an image doubling section or individual tab)
| |-chroma (with an image doubling section or individual tab)
| |-upscaling refinement
|-image downscaling

For the image doubling algorithms, only 2 choices for upscaling/downscaling after doubling : "let madVR decide" and "use the luma upscaling/downscaling settings".
New users could select "let madVR decide" for everything (as madshi wants) and advanced users could pick exactly the right algorithm for their taste and configuration.

The new UI with redundant choices and algorithms in drop-down lists is confusing and limited. The old UI just needed some little adjustments in my opinion.
I'm sure that madshi will figure out somehow how to elegantly organize all this.

Edit : Just throwing out some ideas, peace.

[Magik Mark]

Wow, thanks for this. I'm on a 60" Panasonic ST60 and doing this has me at 23.97651 atm with 0.00200% deviation and 1 frame drop every 1.3~ days (and now sometimes saying 2-3 days). That's pretty close to perfect for a super easy change.

Edit: Double wow. Actually having MadVR read out: "No frame drops/repeats expected" on some files now. Never saw that before.

Which audio renderer are you using?

[burfadel]

For some reason if I leave MPC-HC/madVR paused and the mouse/keyboard inactive long enough then either the gfx card or motherboard makes a long beep sound and reboots. The screen is set to turn off after 3 mins, a couple mins after this I hear the beep and it reboots.

OS: Windows 10 x64
Card: 670 GTX
Driver: 376.09
MPC-HC: x64, 11/7
LAV Filters
Internal Audio Renderer

D3D9 overlay
chroma > NGU-high
luma > NGU-high < Bicubic150 AR
chroma > Bicubic60 AR

Something similar was happening with AMD with RX 400 series cards, but has been rectified in 16.12.1. It's likely a driver thing.

I did notice that it still seems to render frames when paused, when you pause the player it should pause the rendering and have zero cpu and gpu use from the player.

[Warner306]

The UI could be easier to understand to everyone if it was logical.

For instance, there should be only 2 main pages under "scaling algorithms", organized like this :

|-image upscaling
| |-luma
| |-chroma
| |-image doubling [high quality]
| |-upscaling refinement
|-image downscaling

or

|-image upscaling
| |-luma (with an image doubling section or individual tab)
| |-chroma (with an image doubling section or individual tab)
| |-upscaling refinement
|-image downscaling

For the image doubling algorithms, only 2 choices for upscaling/downscaling after doubling : "let madVR decide" and "use the luma upscaling/downscaling settings".
New users could select "let madVR decide" for everything (as madshi wants) and advanced users could pick exactly the right algorithm for their taste and configuration.

The new UI with redundant choices and algorithms in drop-down lists is confusing and limited. The old UI just needed some little adjustments in my opinion.
I'm sure that madshi will figure out somehow how to elegantly organize all this.

Edit : Just throwing out some ideas, peace.

The resulting menu would be too cluttered, imo. I want to see the choices at a glance.

[Sean]

Which audio renderer are you using?

MPC Internal Audio Renderer with Device out to my Onkyo Receiver and Exclusive Mode and Allow Bitstreaming checked.

[khanmein]

For some reason if I leave MPC-HC/madVR paused and the mouse/keyboard inactive long enough then either the gfx card or motherboard makes a long beep sound and reboots. The screen is set to turn off after 3 mins, a couple mins after this I hear the beep and it reboots.

OS: Windows 10 x64
Card: 670 GTX
Driver: 376.09
MPC-HC: x64, 11/7
LAV Filters
Internal Audio Renderer

D3D9 overlay
chroma > NGU-high
luma > NGU-high < Bicubic150 AR
chroma > Bicubic60 AR

omg are u serious NGU-high for your GTX 670??? i suggest set NGU-low or other alternatives.

[webs0r]

My 3c on the UI (I stayed on the v0.91.1 version for now as I was scared of losing the fastest doubler (s-xbr for me)+control - so haven't seen the new).

There are 2 main use cases:
(1) Upscaling
And then the progression is:
(a) upscaling -> (c) downscaling -> (d) refinements
These a-c could be on tabs going horizontally.

For the doubling, I feel a system where there is a blank array initially and the user can add items in corresponding to doubling instructions would be easier to use.
Each entry: trigger scaling factor, algorithm, (any modifers)
A modifier could be the s-xbr sharpness and bloating, or NNEDI32 neurons or NGU quality level.
So 2 entries would give the user quadrupling.

Final sizing would be similar to the 0.91.1 image upscaling but yeah, it could just use drop downs instead. In fact, this could be a mandatory line on the array - with a final resize trigger, and for that one the user can choose from the much wider array of scalers and options.

For chroma, maybe duplicate that?
The interesting thing here is, should the first chroma item be the initial chroma doubling? And then the final resize - could be anything, making it independent to the luma... don't know if its a good thing.
Another option is to combine the two - if user specifies a luma doubler they have to choose whether to double chroma or not at the same time. But then we'll need a separate initial chroma doubling option.

(2) Downscaling
Just the "final" scalers.

This makes more sense as the downscaling tab in the upscaling section only applies when supersampling, and you can have a different downscaler for when final size is <1.0.
I'm not sure this is where people/madshi want it to go - because it preserves the customisability of the old system and just improves the "flow". If simplification is required then options would have to go.
And I don't mean options as in algos - I mean things like - the ability to tailor that you want NGU-high for the first double and then NGU-low for the quadruple step. For example, a user could specify they want doubling, then input a supersampling ratio (1.0 for no supersampling or 2.0 to go to double the screen res) then just choose 1 option like NGU-med and that is applied for all doubling steps that brings it to (or over) the 2.0 ratio.

Not sure what to do about presets and such - I like the simple scripting system. Maybe a link to an external guide will do rather than baking in presets.

Otherwise, somewhere there could be a Fastest, Balanced and Quality. Or 5 options if preferred. These would just pre-populate the above settings dialogs -> allowing scripts to still run. The tricky bit is, like in my situation, when I have a high frame rate video I'll drop to lower power scaling algorithms, but also change the dithering method etc. Gets tricky. Probably not worth it yet?

Sorry, I should have probably installed the latest ver to take a look. Hope there is something useful in my rambling.

[huhn]

omg are u serious NGU-high for your GTX 670??? i suggest set NGU-low or other alternatives.

what's your problem even a GTX 960 can do FHD -> UHD 23p with NGU high.

[ryrynz]

what's your problem even a GTX 960 can do FHD -> UHD 23p with NGU high.

Maybe he just doesn't like super sharp scalers.. :3

[khanmein]

what's your problem even a GTX 960 can do FHD -> UHD 23p with NGU high.

can't u see got he got issue? majority cards can do it but can it run properly w/o issue is another thing!

[Patrik G]

Though that isn't the case. SuperRes always makes it sharper, SuperRes seems like over kill to me.


opposite here
dont know if plasma motion with PWM works better with super res than it does with LCDs sample and hold.
on screenshots comparisions there is NO difference at all but it is when the movie is running.
with NGU high and SuperRes 4 here picture looks more high res and less messy as i have described.
SuperRes must do something to smooth the frames together in motion as its only there there is a difference.

maybe madshi can confirm whenever superes for chroma upscaling does something to the image in motion or not?

[huhn]

i don't think this is setting related.

he has a problem with madVR PAUSED not in playback.

[adhara]

Hi,

I'm a problem about the video quality when using a video projector.
I set up MadVr using Warner306 recommandations available here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188)

With my 60" 4K TV, the video quality is awesome. When using the same configuration on a 4K video projector (3,5m so 138"), image is not so detailed/sharp and a simple BD player offer a better quality.

What is the problem ?

Regards

[huhn]

what projector?

[Knight77]

I am not sure what the "kill my card" is about but in their newer drivers Nvidia changed the default power management mode from "adaptive" to "optimal power". Optimal power clocks too low for madVR though so you need to change back to adaptive, after I do this I don't get any dropped frames with the newest madVR at ~85% GPU usage.


Asmodian can you clarify something to me?

I do not have any dropped frame or particular problem but looks like is suggested to change from the default optimail power to maximum or at least adaptive, but how? I mean... in the setting page below or you let the application manage the settings or you decide but then there are many other settings to check not only the one about power usage. Am I missing something? If not...what else should I choose or select other then the power settings?

Hope you can help.

http://i.imgur.com/yAUrqVY.jpg

[huhn]

just leave the rest of the settings at default and change power management to adaptive.

[adhara]

Hi,

I'm a problem about the video quality when using a video projector.
I set up MadVr using Warner306 recommandations available here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188)

With my 60" 4K TV, the video quality is awesome. When using the same configuration on a 4K video projector (3,5m so 138"), image is not so detailed/sharp and a simple BD player offer a better quality.

What is the problem ?

Regards



what projector?


VP is EPSON 9300

Another question about graphic card.
I want to outptut all my videos to 4k(24-60) - full RGB - 10 bits

What is the best between Nvidia GTX 1060 and AMD RX 480 ?
No issue with the new AMD cards (like 10 bits dithering) ? I always owned Nvidia till now...

I want to be able to run:

2160p video
Chroma: NGU high quality
Image: Jinc3 + AR
Image doubling: Off
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: crispen edges (0.5) + AR
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

1080p video
Chroma: NGU high quality
Image: Jinc3 + AR
Double Luma: 2.0x or greater - NGU high quality
Double Chroma: Off
Upscaling refinement: soften edges (1)
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

[Mistery 73]

The nvidia in full RGB do not support 10-bit but only 8 bits

[adhara]

The nvidia in full RGB do not support 10-bit but only 8 bits

Nvidia 10x supports 10 bits only at 30Hz and lower (when outputting to 4k).
Is it different with RX480 (Polaris) ?

[plasma]

VP is EPSON 9300

Another question about graphic card.
I want to outptut all my videos to 4k(24-60) - full RGB - 10 bits

What is the best between Nvidia GTX 1060 and AMD RX 480 ?
No issue with the new AMD cards (like 10 bits dithering) ? I always owned Nvidia till now...

I want to be able to run:

2160p video
Chroma: NGU high quality
Image: Jinc3 + AR
Image doubling: Off
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: crispen edges (0.5) + AR
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

1080p video
Chroma: NGU high quality
Image: Jinc3 + AR
Double Luma: 2.0x or greater - NGU high quality
Double Chroma: Off
Upscaling refinement: soften edges (1)
Artifact removal - Debanding: Medium/High
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2

no card ca output 4:4:4@2160p@60hz@10bit via hdmi 2.0. It is an limitations of said interface

[adhara]

Ok so Nvidia GTX 1060 or AMD RX 480 ?

And what about the problem with an EPSON 9300 (4k,10bits, HDCP 2.2, .. compliant) ?

Hi,

I'm a problem about the video quality when using a video projector.
I set up MadVr using Warner306 recommandations available here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188)

With my 60" 4K TV, the video quality is awesome. When using the same configuration on a 4K video projector (3,5m so 138"), image is not so detailed/sharp and a simple BD player offer a better quality.

What is the problem ?

[iopq]

I can't adjust any settings with the newest version, it only has "create profile" group button that shows me a menu for what to create a profile group for.

Except when I select something and hit OK, now the button is disabled and I still don't have any settings I can change. Any idea how to fix this?

[huhn]

Ok so Nvidia GTX 1060 or AMD RX 480 ?

And what about the problem with an EPSON 9300 (4k,10bits, HDCP 2.2, .. compliant) ?

the projector is 1080p it only supports UHD input. for best quality it is most likely better to stick to 1080p

I can't adjust any settings with the newest version, it only has "create profile" group button that shows me a menu for what to create a profile group for.

Except when I select something and hit OK, now the button is disabled and I still don't have any settings I can change. Any idea how to fix this?

try reset to defaults. but this sounds strange did you update madVR while it was still running?

[anta777]

Сomparison algorithms chroma upscaling:
BrownFox.png(original) 0.0000
nguveryhighsr4 0.0024
nguhighsr4 0.0026
nguveryhigh 0.0028
ngumedsr4 0.0030
nguhigh 0.0032
sxbr150arsr4 0.0032
nnedi128sr4 0.0033
ngumed 0.0034
sxbr75arsr4 0.0036
sxbr100arsr4 0.0037
ngulow 0.0039
sxbr150ar 0.0048
reconsharp 0.0050
reconsharpar 0.0050
reconplacebo 0.0051
reconplaceboar 0.0052
nnedi128 0.0054
nnedi64 0.0057
sxbr100ar 0.0057
bilatoldsr4 0.0058
nnedi32 0.0059
bilatsoftsr4 0.0060
bicubic75ar 0.0064
sxbr75ar 0.0064
reconsoftsr4 0.0071
bilatold 0.0110
reconsoft 0.0117
bilatsharp 0.0134
bilatsoft 0.0135

I use dssim and brownfox.

[Warner306]

Hi,

I'm a problem about the video quality when using a video projector.
I set up MadVr using Warner306 recommandations available here (http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188)

With my 60" 4K TV, the video quality is awesome. When using the same configuration on a 4K video projector (3,5m so 138"), image is not so detailed/sharp and a simple BD player offer a better quality.

What is the problem ?

Regards

Try disabling soften edges in upscaling refinement if you find the image too soft.

I wonder if I should recommend soften edges for any profile. I am still undecided on its value.

[Asmodian]

Asmodian can you clarify something to me?

I do not have any dropped frame or particular problem but looks like is suggested to change from the default optimail power to maximum or at least adaptive, but how? I mean... in the setting page below or you let the application manage the settings or you decide but then there are many other settings to check not only the one about power usage. Am I missing something? If not...what else should I choose or select other then the power settings?

Hope you can help.

It is in the advanced settings page, not adjust with preview. As huhn said, leave the other options at their defaults.

[iopq]

try reset to defaults. but this sounds strange did you update madVR while it was still running?

Already tried, didn't help. I did update madVR while it was running, but it didn't let me replace the files so I couldn't do it. I replaced the files again and I think I found the problem:

the settings are dropdowns, you need to click on the little < for them to actually show something :cool:

I have another issue:

When I launch Brood War (which has a resolution of 640x480 so it changes screen resolution) and alt tab back out, MPC says

madVR reports:

- creating Direct3D device failed (80070005)

[huhn]

well doubling clicking works too just to let you know.

[Asmodian]

I have another issue:

When I launch Brood War (which has a resolution of 640x480 so it changes screen resolution) and alt tab back out, MPC says

madVR reports:

- creating Direct3D device failed (80070005)

This is normal, the game destroys the Direct3D device when it changes the resolution so madVR fails.

You cannot do anything like this with madVR running, e.g. sleeping the computer has a similar result.

[ryrynz]

I can't adjust any settings with the newest version

Use the batch file in the installation directory and reset madVR to default settings.

[iopq]

This is normal, the game destroys the Direct3D device when it changes the resolution so madVR fails.

You cannot do anything like this with madVR running, e.g. sleeping the computer has a similar result.

It might be normal, but it's undesirable that MadVR doesn't handle this gracefully.

[huhn]

well maybe this is the place to add this: http://bugs.madshi.net/view_all_bug_page.php?project_id=4&dummy=bla/

it is just me saying that but i don't think this is a high priority issue

[XTrojan]

New windows beta build supports HDR and native rec2020 colorspace, Madshi might wanna take a look?

[clsid]

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/mt661818(v=vs.85).aspx