madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[WuNgUn]

Yeah... I just used latest drivers for both... I didn't bother testing further.

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[Klaus1189]

Does 3D work?

[WuNgUn]

Does 3D work?Maybe if the drivers worked....
Device manager left out the R9... Wouldn't let it play :(

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[toki]

so I'm using multiple monitors and trying to optimize madVR and I am trying to use windowed overlay, but every time I start browsing the web while a movie is playing it will jump out of windowed overlay and start showing the the bottom of my taskbar. I have the to hide when not in use, but I can see the green from mpc-hc playing. Any ways to fix this?

[tyguy]

Does anybody else have issues with frame smoothing where the credit crawl at the end of movies flickers?

[Siso]

Does anybody else have issues with frame smoothing where the credit crawl at the end of movies flickers?

You mean smooth motion?

[j82k]

Does anybody else have issues with frame smoothing where the credit crawl at the end of movies flickers?

Is that with HDR?

I do also get excessive flickering during scrolling credits with HDR content when outputting 59/60 Hz with smooth motion enabled, SDR is fine.

I've already mentioned this quite some time ago...

[ace]

(I posted another thread about this asking how to use the same renderer as Windows Movies & TV in PotPlayer, but I'm posting this also because if I can fix my color problem I'd love to still be able to use MadVR.)

When I use PotPlayer with MadVR to play 10-bit 4K UHD mkv videos, there's significant banding and color problems. Here's an example:

https://i.imgur.com/uiYTccE.jpg

When I play the same file with Windows 10's Movies & TV player it looks perfect to my eyes:

https://i.imgur.com/6g69nwo.jpg

Here are my settings in MadVR:

https://i.imgur.com/pJvZoQG.png

How do I get HDR->SDR to look "perfect" like in Windows 10 Movies & TV?

[WuNgUn]

Have you tried just passing meta data thru? Using pixle shades and nit variable makes a big difference in how the image is displayed.

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[WuNgUn]

So, installed MSI Afterburner over clocking utility... With a bit of voltage, core, fan and memory tweaking, I can use various NGU chroma upscaling profiles (depending on the bitrate of 4K media) on my trusty old GTX 960, which is also vendor overclocked.

Was previously using jinc upscaling... But from what I've read, NGU is preferred...?

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[ace]

Have you tried just passing meta data thru? Using pixle shades and nit variable makes a big difference in how the image is displayed.

When I passthrough HDR to display I get washed out colors because my TV doesn't support HDR.

[brazen1]

So, installed MSI Afterburner over clocking utility... With a bit of voltage, core, fan and memory tweaking, I can use various NGU chroma upscaling profiles (depending on the bitrate of 4K media) on my trusty old GTX 960, which is also vendor overclocked.

Was previously using jinc upscaling... But from what I've read, NGU is preferred...?

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Been using MSI Afterburner with a GTX 960 for years now.
I set core clock to +50 and memory to +520 to start with Windows.

2160p 60fps = NGU AA low Luma & Chroma
2160p 24fps = NGU AA very high Luma & NGU AA low Chroma
1080p = NGU sharp med Luma & NGU sharp Chroma
540p, 720p, 3D = NGU sharp very high Luma & Chroma

No trade quality for performance checked.

[WuNgUn]

memory to +520 to start with Windows.



+520!? Holy...
Did you mean +52?

No voltage tweaks?

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[brazen1]

I meant exactly what I wrote to help you. It helped me. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-super-super-clocked-gtx-960,4063-4.html
This is a 4GB card fwiw.

[WuNgUn]

I meant exactly what I wrote to help you. It helped me. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/evga-super-super-clocked-gtx-960,4063-4.html
This is a 4GB card fwiw.I have the EVGA 960 SC, not SSC...
2GB ram and 6-pin aux power...

I'll do some testing :)
Thanks for the link

[brazen1]

Yeah, mine is SSC 8-pin so yours will be different. Oh well, happy new year.

[el Filou]

@ace I have watched many UHD Blu-rays in SDR via madVR (with Mediaportal and MPC-HC) and have never seen anything like your screenshot (which is massive btw, not great to insert inline in a post).
That looks to me like a decoding problem. Are you sure the output of the decoder isn't truncated to 8-bit or something like that? Please link to a screenshot with the madVR OSD visible during playback, and if possible a screenshot of the video decoder filter's config/its output pin properties.

[Asmodian]

Truncation would not result in something like that, the extra bits are not for brighter or extra colors. It would look posterized or banded if it was truncated but not darker.

[el Filou]

Well look at the lighter parts of the sky and the Fox logo, it is posterized and banded.

[SamuriHL]

Honestly looks like colorspace issues of some kind.

[huhn]

the shown effect shouldn't be from truncation or rounding alone but that doesn't matter. it's clearly not what should happen.

the video result is similar to the days when 10 bit x264 was new and older software couldn't handle it properly while still accepting it.

i pointed to DXVA2 decoding in the original post of him and he ignored it so...

[mariner]

HLG support

Greetings madshi.
As you know, most 1st generation HDR displays lack support for HLG. This is especially true of low cost projectors. ATM it seems only the Panasonic players have the ability to convert HLG to PQ so that these can be displayed properly on such devices.
Would you like to look into the possibility of adding HLG-->PQ mapping curve to the madshi renderer so that HLG content will be output as PQ?
Many thanks and best regards,

[totalz]

If my display has better WCG coverage in DCI-P3 than REC.2020, is it possible or wise to convert rec.2020 into dci-p3 with MadVR?

And what's the recommended settings for 4K content to a 4K display?


edit: just did some "simple" calculations on the WCG info I found, so it seems there's no point to do conversion, but my calculations method on the matter could be totally wrong!?

dci-p3 - 45.5% perceptible to human
rec.2020 - 75.8% perceptible

Q70R
------
DCI P3 xy 87.83 %
DCI P3 uv 93.67 %
avg: 90.7%
45.5 * .907 = 41.2685% avail

Rec 2020 xy 65.37 %
Rec 2020 uv 73.92 %
avg: 69.645%
75.8 * .69645 = 52.79091% avail

[huhn]

i have to miss something important because turning HLG to PQ is trivial and madVR doesn't support HLG yet so sounds logical to me to add this.

you convert it to linear to get linear 1000 nit then you divided by 10 to get linear 10000 nit and now you turn it to PQ set the meta data to 1000 nits and you are done.

[nevcairiel]

If my display has better WCG coverage in DCI-P3 than REC.2020, is it possible or wise to convert rec.2020 into dci-p3 with MadVR?

Since DCI-P3 is a subset of BT.2020, anything else would be rather surprising. And yes, madVR can do such a conversion, in the simplest form would be to just tell madVR that your screen is calibrated to DCI-P3.

Of course for this to work, you would also have to tell your screen that its receicing DCI-P3 data, if you can't do that, its not really a good idea to set it up like that.

Another option would be to calibrate your screen with a colorimeter, but that requires having such a device, of course.

[tyguy]

Is that with HDR?



I do also get excessive flickering during scrolling credits with HDR content when outputting 59/60 Hz with smooth motion enabled, SDR is fine.



I've already mentioned this quite some time ago...


Yes, it’s with hdr.

[ace]

i pointed to DXVA2 decoding in the original post of him and he ignored it so...

(Sorry I missed your reply in the other thread.)

Hi huhn and El Filou, okay under "Built-in Video Decoder Configuration->DXVA2 Copy-Back" I changed it from "D3D11: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080" to "Do Not Use (Recommended)" and the banding/posterization went away which is a huge improvement.

Now Movies & TV player:
https://i.imgur.com/34qm2lr.png

Vs PotPlayer:
https://i.imgur.com/vjCHANi.png

Windows Movies & TV player still gives a more vibrant, less dull image with a bit more detail, even without me trying to set the peak nits or any other setting. Here's how I set it in MadVR:

https://imgur.com/uEnuyJ6.png

Edit:
Okay after changing "desired display gamma" from "BT.709/601 curve" to "pure power curve" and "tone mapping curve" from "BT.2390" to "clipping" my PotPlayer image is nearly identical to Windows Movies & TV so I'm happy :)

Thanks again huhn and el Filou for the excellent diagnosis.

[totalz]

Since DCI-P3 is a subset of BT.2020, anything else would be rather surprising. And yes, madVR can do such a conversion, in the simplest form would be to just tell madVR that your screen is calibrated to DCI-P3.

Of course for this to work, you would also have to tell your screen that its receicing DCI-P3 data, if you can't do that, its not really a good idea to set it up like that.

Another option would be to calibrate your screen with a colorimeter, but that requires having such a device, of course.

Hi nevcairiel, thanks for reminding me that DCI-P3 is a subset of BT.2020, so the info about colors perceptible to humans I got from https://www.ittiam.com/hdr-color-space-conversion-dcip3-rec-2020/ . If BT.2020 has more perceptible colors to humans, then there's no point to convert DCI-P3 to BT.2020 or vice visa. Cause if a color is imperceptible, it will still be after the conversion. Am I missing something?

[huhn]

you are missing white point which can play a huge rule in this depending where you got the numbers from.

bt 2020 is currently used so the TV knows the input format it usually only holds DCI P3 D65 information the rest is blank.

the point of BT 2020 is that the TV expect this format when an HDR signal is send to it or you can tell your TV the signal is BT 2020 so it can color match it that's not the case with DCI P3 which is D65 D63 or D60 and the "gamma" is 2.6 or sRGB. it's a mess.

[Siso]

On a monitor who has 10 bit (8 bit+frc) is it worth setting 10 bit via displayport in the nvidia control panel, or 8 bit is enough?

[Asmodian]

Usually not but test it yourself with a gradient test pattern.

[manderko]

Anyone have any idea the best way to play a 4K60fps using a 2070 MADVR via DSplayer on a JVC projector? I am getting massive frame drops. Have tried setting HTPC to 59hz, 60hz, etc. Anything I am missing? Thanks in advance.

[Asmodian]

Check the OSD (ctrl-J). Are the queues full?

[Siso]

Usually not but test it yourself with a gradient test pattern.

Will try that. :thanks:

[Mano]

I just realized there is a fork for MPC-HC on github (github.com/clsid2/mpc-hc). Anyone has experience with it? Does it play nice with madvr compare to the last official release 1.7.13?

[Klaus1189]

@Mano: This thread covers that:

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175209

[Mano]

Thanks Klaus.

Anyway i haven't update madvr for awhile and i see there is a new upscaling, NGU. How is it compare to Jinc or lancos?

[Siso]

Thanks Klaus.

Anyway i haven't update madvr for awhile and i see there is a new upscaling, NGU. How is it compare to Jinc or lancos?

NGU image doubling is way better, than regular upscaling. Try it.

[Asmodian]

Especially true of NGU high and very high, NGU low is less impressive. Medium is a definite improvement over Jinc but NGU high or very high are the 'real' NGU algorithms in my opinion. :o

[Mano]

What should i choose between NGU anti-alias, soft, standard, and sharp?

[Asmodian]

I think Anti-alias is the most natural while sharp is the sharpest. Standard is between the two while soft is not very useful for me, anti-alias is better at a similar sharpness. Notice the lack of a strong recommendation. :)

I usually use anti-alias when sitting close to a larger screen but many prefer sharp. Those are the two I usually switch between, though some do like standard the most. It is definitely something you can and should decide for yourself, while remembering the content you are watching matters a lot too. If you are watching something different you might want to test again. With lower quality content anti-alias is usually better, sharp tends to make video artifacts much more noticeable.

[chros]

I use on 4k screen for:
- 1080p: ngu sharp
- everything below 1080p: ngu aa

[Siso]

Especially true of NGU high and very high, NGU low is less impressive. Medium is a definite improvement over Jinc but NGU high or very high are the 'real' NGU algorithms in my opinion. :o

Agreed, if his card can handle high and very high.

[Grimsdyke]

I am not sure if this thread is the best place to post this. If so, mods please move to the correct thread.

I have a few 50fps-720p-mp4-files downloaded from a public TV station's website here in Germany and when loaded in MadVR the OSD reports: frame 20 ms !!!
And since these are upscaled to 2160p I have massive frame drops. This happens only with these files - everything else is working fine at 40 ms.

Does anyone maybe knows what the problem is here ?? Is there just a flag wrong in these files ?? (MPC-BE and MPC-VR can play these without dropping frames.)

[Klaus1189]

25 fps has a frametime of 40ms
50 fps has a frametime of 20ms
Can you post a sample, maybe also per pm if it is not allowed to share that videos.

[sneaker_ger]

Create an (empty) folder "ShowRenderSteps" within the madvr folder. Press ctrl+j to bring up the madvr OSD. Make a screenshot and post it here. From that you might find out where the bottleneck is. As Klaus said the difference seems to be the fps. Note that 50 fps will need about twice as much processing power as 25 fps for rendering (as well as more power for decoding). What hardware do you have?

[Grimsdyke]

Thanks guys, that explains it. Will use a MPC-BE-VR-combo to play these files then !! But MPC-VR is using really so much less ressources than MadVR ??

[WuNgUn]

Thanks guys, that explains it. Will use a MPC-BE-VR-combo to play these files then !! But MPC-VR is using really so much less ressources than MadVR ??Less resource, even when MPC is using MADVR??

[Asmodian]

You simply need to setup a different profile for 50 fps content in madVR. madVR can be very fast or very very slow depending on your settings. There are definitely good settings for madVR that will allow you to play 720p50 -> 2160p50.

[WuNgUn]

Speaking of FPS...
Whenever I am not playing at 60Fps, my image is over scanning..?
Should I use my nVidia control panel to resize or scale? When I do, it seems instead of squeezing the image, it reduces the resolution...
This is what I mean (2160p25 Ultra Panavision, The Hateful Eight)
Also, I love how MadVR recognizes the Ultra Panavision!