madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[clsid]

AMD HD7770 does not support HEVC.

[cork_OS]

What plans does madshi have for madVR that its development seems to have slowed down? What can we expect in madVR 1.0.0?
Well...
I don't really like to comment on future plans much. But for version 1.0 I do hope to have all important areas covered.

[Damien147]

AMD HD7770 does not support HEVC.

Oh,my fault.Probably he can't see the problem then.RX4x0 specific it seems.

[leeperry]

What can we expect in madVR 1.0

Moar better everything eventually.

[Damien147]

No matter what the ''3D'' effect of softcubic was the best.Wish he can ''tweak'' something with todays shaders and recreate it.It won't be a bad idea as a whole to choose the best attributes of each shader and combine them.You know,take that from that and take that from that... I don't know if I am saying nonsense.

[Bloodred]

Laptop GTX 1080. Same power as desktop, cooling isn't as good so it heats more. Its safe temps are up to 92C where it becomes a real problem.
Yeah, that explains it. On my desktop 1080 at least NGU doesn't seem to heat it up more than a normal load (a game), using the same fan curve of course.

[hannes69]

It won't be a bad idea as a whole to choose the best attributes of each shader and combine them.You know,take that from that and take that from that... I don't know if I am saying nonsense.
What a clever idea!
;)
Seems like you want to mix up apples with pears and bananas. That´s fruit salad :)
Serious: Scaling algorithms use very different technologies, it´s the same like you can´t really mix a petrol and a diesel engine.
If it would be so easy like you think, then it would already exist, because there are many clever people sitting on this planet...
E.g. NGU is very different from simple bilinear and bicubic algorithms, you can´t create a better bicubic upscaler with elements of NGU...

[Oguignant]

Does anyone know how to create a 3d lut file? Any web that explains it?

I use Calman 5 software, but I do not have good results.

[Asmodian]

There is a Display Calibration (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783) thread here but most of us are using Argyllcms instead of Calman. The new version of DisplayCal (https://displaycal.net/) has made creating 3DLUTs for madVR very easy.

There is also SpectraCal's madVR 3D LUT Calibration Quick Start Guide (http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/QSGs/madVR%203D%20LUT%20Calibration%20QuickStart.pdf).

Please ask calibration setting questions in the other thread so we don't fill up this one with calibration.

[Oguignant]

There is a Display Calibration (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172783) thread here but most of us are using Argyllcms instead of Calman. The new version of DisplayCal (https://displaycal.net/) has made creating 3DLUTs for madVR very easy.

There is also SpectraCal's madVR 3D LUT Calibration Quick Start Guide (http://www.spectracal.com/Documents/QSGs/madVR%203D%20LUT%20Calibration%20QuickStart.pdf).

Please ask calibration setting questions in the other thread so we don't fill up this one with calibration.

I have problems to calibrate my tv oled, 100% Cyan is left with a DeltaE 2000 of 17. I do not understand why, all other values ​​are ok

[Asmodian]

100% colors are often hard to get right, maybe your display simply cannot display the correct 100% cyan, but this can get very complicated and shouldn't be discussed in this thread.

[Damien147]

@hannes69
Yes,something like Madshis monster!
I have no idea how things work.I'm just enjoying the result.I used to be a ''vlc guy'' if you get me but madvr made me ''curious''.Ok,I said nonsense it seems.:p

[IggySLO]

Is there a way to make the seek bar larger in exclusive mode?

It looks like it has a fixed size and it doesn't scale up on larger screens, so this makes it very small on a 4K tv. This isn't really a big problem, just a bit of a nuisance on the rare occasion when I'm trying to check the time.

This is my 1st post here and I hope this is the right place to ask :). madVR is the best! :thanks:

[Damien147]

Right click in desktop--->display settings--->change the size of text,apps,and other items
Set it to 300% for example and check if it fixes things.

[IggySLO]

Right click in desktop--->display settings--->change the size of text,apps,and other items
Set it to 300% for example and check if it fixes things.

Even if this would make a difference for the seekbar in madVR, I don't think it's the most practical solution.

My PC doubles as a htpc (connected to avr via hdmi) and I don't need everything on my system to be bigger just for this one madVR setting :).

[Damien147]

300% serves me well for the desktop/browser too.I don't know what else you can do.

[jkauff]

Even if this would make a difference for the seekbar in madVR, I don't think it's the most practical solution.

My PC doubles as a htpc (connected to avr via hdmi) and I don't need everything on my system to be bigger just for this one madVR setting :).
What player are you using? If you forego Full Screen Exclusive mode and instead use windowed mode and just maximize your player, you can take advantage of seek bar customizations within the player (assuming your player has them).

[70MM]

Can someone please explain me something I still dont understand even though I have read the descriptions many many times.....
Im upscaling to 4K and only use Window Mode, I have never understood what Exclusive Mode actually gives me that Window Mode doesn't, can someone explain please?
I know many here only use only Window Mode like myself, but then many others use only Exclusive Mode, why I wonder?
I have tried it many times but always go back to Window Mode as I just dont get it... sorry to be a bit dumb on this one...

[pose]

Can someone please explain me something I still dont understand even though I have read the descriptions many many times.....
Im upscaling to 4K and only use Window Mode, I have never understood what Exclusive Mode actually gives me that Window Mode doesn't, can someone explain please?
I know many here only use only Window Mode like myself, but then many others use only Exclusive Mode, why I wonder?
I have tried it many times but always go back to Window Mode as I just dont get it... sorry to be a bit dumb on this one...

Basically it is the most stable mode for madVR.

[70MM]

Basically it is the most stable mode for madVR.

Stable in what way please?
If one has no dropped frames etc etc would one still want to use it or just stick with Window mode?

[ryrynz]

Stable isn't the word I'd use.. More like problem free. Windowed mode behaves just like any other media player renderer. Exclusive mode is a dedicated presentation between madVR and the graphics card. As such the UI changes, the screen blanks when changing mode and you get the ability to display in greater than 8 bit modes. Windowed mode works flawlessly for me and is generally what I'd recommend.

[70MM]

Cant we get higher than 8bit with Window Mode?
ryrynz since you too only use Window Mode is there a reason you havent gone to Exclusive Mode?
If one has problems is that the only reason one would change from Window to Exclusive?

[YxP]

Tested the new NGU in depth and the performance is okay but heats up the GPU quite a bit.

You just love to tick every box there is, don't you? How's the picture quality and performance (and especially the fan) if you just use very high settings? My battlestation HD7850 can do medium with almost minimum fan sound, and I consider this a noisy one. Yours probably can do default-high or default-very high easily.

[valdeski]

Cant we get higher than 8bit with Window Mode?
ryrynz since you too only use Window Mode is there a reason you havent gone to Exclusive Mode?
If one has problems is that the only reason one would change from Window to Exclusive?


I don't know if this has changed recently with a new Nvidia driver update or not but sometime ago Nvidia would only allow 10bit using Exclusive Fullscreen Mode DirectX 11 for Geforce GPUs and reserved true 10bit for Workstations cards(quadro and the like)

[Asmodian]

Cant we get higher than 8bit with Window Mode?

Not with current Windows.

I also always use a windowed mode. Without a display with a native 10-bit panel there is no benefit to FSE for me and the slower initialization and flicker are negatives.

[Damien147]

My battlestation HD7850 can do medium with almost minimum fan sound, and I consider this a noisy one.

Why the *uck is polaris so slow?I can do medium only with rx470 in 4k.

[huhn]

ask AMD not us.
a 1060 can do 1080 -> UHD with pixart very high (and normal chrome).

[TheShadowRunner]

Hi madshi, if you have a little time please don't forget the test build with "* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph" disabled (for the DVD on XP bug).

[strumf666]

Why the *uck is polaris so slow?I can do medium only with rx470 in 4k.

ask AMD not us.
a 1060 can do 1080 -> UHD with pixart very high (and normal chrome).
1060 would be comparable to rx480?

[Georgel]

You just love to tick every box there is, don't you? How's the picture quality and performance (and especially the fan) if you just use very high settings? My battlestation HD7850 can do medium with almost minimum fan sound, and I consider this a noisy one. Yours probably can do default-high or default-very high easily.

Actually, all settings are turned off... I think there's something off with my cooling....

Reducing banding high / high

Chroma NGU - med

Downscaling SSIM 1D - 100%, scale in linear light

UPscaling NGU MED luma,

doubling Jinc AR, SSIM 1D

Everything else turned off. I also have all trade quality for performance turned off though.

The thing is that the GPU gets hot, not noisy. On P775 you have control of fans like either an auto profile for everyday usage or activate the super cooler max profile.

Activating this super profile sounds like a vacuum cleaner and those settings are the most I can do with the GPU on auto - which is dead silent - without reaching 80C on GPU.

Maybe the fact that the resolution is 2560 * 1440 also plays a role in this .

[Damien147]

ask AMD not us.
a 1060 can do 1080 -> UHD with pixart very high (and normal chrome).

They won't answer.:pI hope it's a driver thing.Can't use pixart very high at all,I get dropped frames in UHD.The best I can go in 4k is ngu(standard) high but there are dropped frames in some occasions.So I settle with med but by reading here med is the ''thin'' line between natural/unnatural.So...all good.I hope NGU is an exception and I won't be slow if another shader comes out.

1060 would be comparable to rx480?

Yes.

[leeperry]

Long story short 480's suck at NGU and even HDMI 2.0b can't output 10bit 2160p60, this seriously calls for some major postponing and I'll just send the upgraditis monster back to its cave for a while :p

OLED's crazy pricing is seriously dropping but the 1K 1080p sets come with a very nasty mosquito netting effect due to poor aperture ratio, a screensaver that kicks in during slow movies (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2434802-lg-55eg910v-oled-dimming-issue-solved.html) and a 81 cd/m² max brightness lolwut (http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/eg9100).

The good news is that when there'll be some affordable graphic card/UHD OLED TV both worthy of mVR, we'll have reached mVR 1.5 :D

[Damien147]

Let's ''hope'' it only sucks with NGU.So I bought TV last year,next purchase in 2024?:p

[leeperry]

Fury's are pretty good apparently, I wonder how they'd fare with NGU but a HD7850 more than hits the spot for 1080p IME so no biggy.

[kitame]

i currently have this setting:

chroma = ReconSharp
imagedown = SSIM 2D 100%
imageup = NGUPIX V3 low

image enhancements:
sharpen edges 1.0
thin edges 2.0
lumasharpen 0.80
adaptivesharpen 1.0
anti-bloating 75%

works on almost all of my videos.
the only videos that it doesn't work on are super crappy low-res videos (~240p).

[cork_OS]

NGUPIX V3 low
Currently NGU pix v3 exists only in form of very high (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1797911#post1797911) quality settings.

[strumf666]

Long story short 480's suck at NGU and even HDMI 2.0b can't output 10bit 2160p60, this seriously calls for some major postponing and I'll just send the upgraditis monster back to its cave for a while :p

OLED's crazy pricing is seriously dropping but the 1K 1080p sets come with a very nasty mosquito netting effect due to poor aperture ratio, a screensaver that kicks in during slow movies (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-oled-technology-flat-panels-general/2434802-lg-55eg910v-oled-dimming-issue-solved.html) and a 81 cd/m² max brightness lolwut (http://uk.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/eg9100).

The good news is that when there'll be some affordable graphic card/UHD OLED TV both worthy of mVR, we'll have reached mVR 1.5 :D
By that time, if you insist on AMD, "navi" should be readily available if not obsolete already;)

[HillieSan]

Long story short 480's suck at NGU and even HDMI 2.0b can't output 10bit 2160p60,

10 bits 2160p60 works fine on RX 480

NGU high works with dithering on random

[leeperry]

10 bits 2160p60 works fine on RX 480

ORLY? In 4:2:2? I don't care much for full chroma as most TV's disable all cinema features when forcing it but 4:2:0 isn't quite enough for mVR :angry:

[nevcairiel]

4:2:2 should be supported over HDMI 2.0 at 2160p60 at high bit depth, only 4:4:4/RGB is too much bandwidth for >=10-bit.
On many TVs you may need to use 12-bit instead of 10, if that choice is offered.

[leeperry]

OK, so both 10 & 12 bit 4:2:2 seem possible in HDMI 2.0b (http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/uhd-101-v2/) but do the RX480 drivers provide an option to do that? FWIR only nvidia allow this kind of kludge in RGB?

Actually that link seems to imply that it would even be possible with HDMI 1.4, it's all pretty dang confusing and I haven't seen any option to output 4:2:2 RGB in the 13.12 AMD drivers.

[Asmodian]

No one offers 4:2:2 in RGB, that doesn't make any sense. This is all YCbCr 4:2:2, which is fairly common but your display needs to report support for it.

[kitame]

Currently NGU pix v3 exists only in form of very high (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1797911#post1797911) quality settings.

wait, then what am i getting from V3 low? original NGU? or NGU PIX V1?

well aside from that, i find my current settings acceptable for a balanced point, except it heats up my HD7950 by quite a bit.

[ryrynz]

Standard ol' NGU. Waiting hard on this proper NGU pix release in a week or two.

[sauma144]

Waiting hard on this proper NGU pix release in a week or two.
Why not today? :D

[cork_OS]

Why not today? :D
It's too good to be true. :D

[madshi]

Sorry madshi I forgot I have a macro named that but its actually activating your (Zoom Control) if there are big black bars: dropdown box ....reduce bar size by 25%

This is what I use labelled Zoom 5. This removes the black bars on older 2.40, 2.55 titles like Ben Hur, but its removing too much. Im wondering if we could have some smaller steps up to 25% please, maybe 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, then 25%.
I guess that should be possible, I'll add it to my to do list.

Is there any way to check that 10bit got enabled
The only reliable way I know is if your receiver or TV report the incoming bitdepth. If madVR sends 10bit to the GPU driver, the GPU driver could still ouput it as dithered or undithered 8bit, 10bit, 12bit or 16bit. I've no control over that, I can't even ask the GPU which bitdepth it actually outputs.

Nah, he just says 8.1 works well, but then so does 10.
I'm actually saying Windows 8.1 is the best media playback OS atm. I see zero improvements in Windows 10 for media playback, and most users who have problems have them with Windows 10 and not with Windows 8.1.

There may be HDR APIs for Windows 10 soon, but on the other hand, I've heard about other planned changes which are totally terrible. So I keep recommending to use Windows 8.1 for HTPCs.

This Wednesday I am finally getting a projector with lens memory function (jvc x35) and I am now making different profiles according to aspect ratios. However I wonder whether madvr after playback automatically changes the lens memory back to the whatever it was before playback.
That's currently not supported. E.g. imagine you have a 16:9 and a scope lens memory, and your default setting is scope. Now imagine you play 3 scope movies in a row (e.g. LOTR trilogy). If you tell madVR to restore the lens memory after playback, what you'd get is madVR switching to scope at the start of the first movie, and then between movies 1 and 2, and between movies 2 and 3, madVR would first restore the 16:9 lens memory, and then switch back to scope a couple seconds later. I don't think that's a good idea.

I'm using an X35, too, btw.

development seems to have slowed down
Huh??


What is video mode exactly? For me, video mode, is just not film mode. So maybe, it does something more that could bring me other benefits. I searched forums and wasn't able to find a clear answer.
"Video mode" is not a fixed term. But I suppose some people using this term might mean that the deinterlacer is turned into a mode which it treats all content as natively interlaced video content.

Ok, I'm trying to use film mode as much as possible. However, I have some videos that seems to be 3:2 pulldown but not perfectly. Playing them in film mode will bring a lot of cadence break and dropped frame. On the other side, if I'm deintrelacing the 29.97 video to play it at 59.9, it won't play well as there is a lot of pulldown judder like you said.
How many is "a lot"? Do you see the cadence breaks and dropped frames? Or is it just the meaningless statistic in the OSD that bothers you?

So, why my blu-ray is able to play this DVD correctly and I'm not.
Does the blu-ray player able to play it smoothly, without pulldown judder, and without any (visible) cadence breaks and frame drops?

Does anyone know how to create a 3d lut file? Any web that explains it?

I use Calman 5 software, but I do not have good results.
The big question is: Is this likely a problem with madVR? Or a problem with Calman 5? Or a problem with your HTPC configuration? This thread is the right one if you suspect a bug in madVR. In the other two cases you'll likely get better support by asking on the Calman support forum. Most of us here are not really calibration experts. So if Calman is for some reason not creating a good 3dlut, you'd better ask them about it. Of course if the cause of the trouble is a bug in madVR, you'd be better served here in this thread, but it's really hard to say from your description.

Is there a way to make the seek bar larger in exclusive mode?
It's planned for a future version, but not too soon.

Hi madshi, if you have a little time please don't forget the test build with "* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph" disabled (for the DVD on XP bug).
Noted.

Is there any reason why with the following in madvr's monitors display properties, it will select 2160p30 for 25hz material?

2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30
See here:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1799028&postcount=42797

Hey @madshi. I would like to request that you restore the ability to do nearest-neighbor upscaling. It seems to have been removed in recent versions.

I have an actual use case for this, and am sticking with an older version as a result. Although nearest-neighbor is not generally a desirable algorithm for most realistic images, it can be desirable when displaying media containing pixel artwork. It is also quite useful as a means to demonstrate to people the differences between different interpolation kernels on real media, something I have occasion to do in an educational capacity.

My suspicion is that was removed because you imagine that nobody uses it and you could save real estate. I can testify that I use it regularly (though not for photographic content). Perhaps you could combine nearest-neighbor and bilinear upscaling under a shared radio button and name it something like "Simple," much as you folded C-R and M-N under the "Cubic" banner. (Another idea would be to combine NN, bilinear and DXVA2 under a "Native" or "GPU" grouping.)

Thank you for all your hard work on publishing madVR for free: it is a fantastic offering. I know you can't fulfill the requests of everybody, but I hope you will at least consider restoring this functionality. It would brighten my day.
I only ever included it for "educational capacity", as you say. I don't think it's useful for anything else, even for pixart, unless you absolutely need to check every single pixel separately in pixart, but why you need that? Check out this one:

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

Why would you ever want nearest neighbor, if you can get the quality shown in that screenshot comparison, when using madVR?

I guess you don't understand. Seeing the individual pixels is important in watching retro speed runs; especially tool-assisted speed runs, as pixel-perfect play is common there. I don't want a blurry image or distorted-shaped pixels when upscaling such videos. Also, I agree that nearest-neighbor is relatively bad, as my post explained. The algorithm I linked to in my post is a superior algorithm to nearest neighbor, as it hides the misshapen-pixels problem nearest neighbor has without eliminating its crystal clarity.
I'm confused. You're linking to some algorithms which distort the pixels but you say you don't want distored-shaped pixels?

Why exactly do you need pixels to be exactly the way nearest neighbor produces them? It seems weird to me. I can understand that you don't want blurry, but you don't need to have blurry.

Nearest neighbor is the only truly sharp algorithm provided by madVR for low-res pixel art video (256×224, for example)
Huh?

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/202526

To my eyes nearest neighbor is not sharper in that screenshot comparison. It's just dramatically more aliased.

[madshi]

madVR v0.91.6 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added NGU Anti-Alias algorithm, intended as a potential NNEDI3 replacement
* completely redesigned image upscaling settings page once more
* downscaling after doubling now uses relaxed AR (instead of strict)
* increased AdaptiveSharpen + LumaSharpen upper limits
* fixed: up & downscaling anti-ringing checkbox was sometimes disabled
* fixed: 3D subtitle depth was incorrect for movies with swapped eyes
Hope you guys are happy with the upscaling settings redesign? I'm not fully happy with that there are so many options now, but I suppose defaulting them all to "let madVR decide" should help newbies, so I hope it will be ok for a while.

I've renamed "NGU pixart" to "NGU Anti-Alias" to make sure that there are no misunderstandings. NGU Anti-Alias is not primarily made for "pixart" (as in old computer games where each pixel was carefully drawn by an artist), but it's optimized for heavily aliased photos and videos. It also does happen to work reasonably well for pixart, but that's not the primary target.

NGU Anti-Alias is an improved version of "NGU PixArt v3". Compared to the PixArt v3 test build, it has slightly better anti-aliasing capabilities, while keeping the same (or higher) focus and sharpness. NGU Anti-Alias is now available in all 4 quality levels.

You can see that there will be "NGU Soft", "NGU Standard" and "NGU Sharp". These will be 3 different NGU variants of the original (non-pixart) NGU, which have different sharpness levels built into the very algorithm. The purpose of this change is that we won't need a separate "soften edges" algorithm, anymore, which saves some performance. Furthermore, "soften edges" doesn't work as well for direct quadrupling as it does for doubling twice, which will not be a problem for NGU Soft/Standard.

FWIW, "NGU Soft" and "NGU Standard" are not ready yet, but the settings dialog already mentions them. "NGU Sharp" is currently the same as the original NGU algorithm.

Now I'd like to have your feedback about the following topics:

1) Is the new upscaling settings page fine now?
2) When disregarding speed, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias Very High vs. NNEDI3 256-taps, for image upscaling?
3) When taking speed into account, how would you rate NGU Anti-Alias vs NNEDI3 at the various quality levels, for image upscaling?
4) Same as 2) and 3), but for chroma upscaling.

[amayra]

so we have more options for upscaling this is good news that why i love madVR
thanks for you hard work i well do some test and comeback with feedback

[Neo-XP]

1) Is the new upscaling settings page fine now?

It looks complex when you first see it, but then it is ok (for me).
One thing you can improve : when you choose "disabled" for "<-- luma quadrupling", the list box for "<-- quadrupling" should be greyed out.

I still can't choose "Lanczos3 AR" for chroma doubling. I'm stuck with "Bicubic60 AR" or "NGU Sharp (low)" :devil:
Can you add for chroma doubling an option "same as upscaling algo", if you don't want to change the default algos ?

Nothing strange about it. We already discussed earlier that I'm using strict downscaling now, which I might change to relaxed in the next official build.

"NGU-Sharp (high)" is still not as sharp as "NGU-med" in v0.91.1. Is that normal ?