madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Siso]

Too bad the optimize button doesn't work yet :D

[Magik Mark]

Is there a way to delete all new customized refresh rates if you want to start all over again? In nvidia no matter what you do in driver settings, it just won't happen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hannes69]

Did you make tests of real rate of LCD matrix (or what else) after that? The fact that monitor accept some mode say nothing about what you really see.
You´re thinking of a scientific double blind field study test or what? :devil: No. I´ve tested with my own eyes, the most reliable test in my eyes ;)
I´m considering eyes as a very good test equipment for video applications (some people asking for best settings in this thread maybe not).
I´m very sensitive to skipped/repeated/dropped frames, fluent video playback is the most important factor in my home cinema experience.
My monitor accepts the GPU output and I see fluent motion (yes, that´s what I really see in your terminology).
Sometimes it´s OK to believe others without asking for evidence ;)

[SweetLow]

You´re thinking of a scientific double blind field study test or what?

(Right) tear test for example.


I´m considering eyes as a very good test equipment for video applications (some people asking for best settings in this thread maybe not).

But with little help they easily convert to excellent ;)

You´re thinking of a scientific double blind field study test or what?
Sometimes it´s OK to believe others without asking for evidence ;)
There isn't place for "believe" where "check" is available.

[huhn]

https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping

and yes tearing test is fine too.

but overclock/underclock your screen at your own risk.
an old screen of mine get's crazy with under and over clocking even so far i can hear it...

[huhn]

and yet another user that doesn't get it...

[FDisk80]

There might be a new madVR version next weekend, but not this. I'll reply to all your posts when the next madVR version is released. Please have a bit patience until then.

For now, I've something for you to play with:

http://madshi.net/madCustomRes.zip

It's currently a standalone tool, soon to be integrated into madVR. This tool allows you to create custom resolutions, refresh rates and timings, with Nvidia, AMD and Intel GPUs. The tool uses private APIs of the 3 GPU manufacturers. I think my GUI is nicer than those of the GPU manufacturers, plus mine has some extra features. Once I integrated this into madVR, I'm also planning to automatically measure your display modes and suggest optimized custom timings, so you can get smooth playback without any frame drops/repeats, without using Reclock.

Unfortunately the private GPU APIs are all buggy. I've already posted bug reports to AMD and Nvidia, Intel to follow soon. So it will be an uphill battle to make all this work as expected. But I hope we'll get there, eventually. Biggest problems right now are that Nvidia only seems to accept *new* custom modes, for resolutions/refresh rates that don't exist yet, but Nvidia doesn't seem to allow timing overrides for standard modes like 1080p23, at least not on my PC. And Intel has serious problems, too. AMD is the least problematic, but not bug free, either.

Please use this at your own risk!!

You *could* end up with a display mode which the display doesn't sync to. In that case if a reboot doesn't help you may have to fix the problem in safe mode. I recommend that when creating custom timings that you don't create them while you're in the same mode, just to be safe. So e.g. if you want to customize 1080p23 timings, don't do this while your GPU is in 1080p23 mode. Instead switch to e.g. 1080p59 mode while you're working on 1080p23 timings. This way you can after your modifications switch to the new 1080p23 timings "on trial" and the OS will auto switch back if you don't confirm the change within 15 or 20 seconds.

Feedback welcome.

automatically measure your display modes and suggest optimized custom timings

Whoa! Nice. I want this in madVR. :D

[zapatista]

Hi Madchi,

thank you for the great program you have provided to the HTPC community.

with my current pc specs, and using madvr, should i be able to downscale a 4k (YCbCr) video file to 2k @ 10bit RGB with decent framerates ? (i am sending it via hdmi to my tv which can accept 1080p RGB @ 10 and 12 bit ) or is my pc gfx card not able to cope ?

i have been trying to tweak the settings of MPC-HC and madvr while playing a test 4k video file but cant get it completely fluid

system: i7 @ 3.5 (stock clock speed) w 32 gb ddr3 ram and an older ati 5770 gfx card ( 1 gb vram)

any tips on how i can improve this 2k down conversion performance ?

[hannes69]

There isn't place for "believe" where "check" is available.

https://www.testufo.com/#test=frameskipping


OK. I have done the UFO frameskipping check for all of my 5 different refresh rates for my TFT monitor. In each case the right according refresh rate and frame rate was shown and I took my Pentax K-30 DSLR, set 1 second exposure time and made for each case a photo. No frames were skipped.
So I made a "check" and now you can "believe" what I wrote above or not. :D
I will not waste my time by loading photos from my camera to the computer, make uploads, links and so on.
But the process is ok. I knew before that my monitor can do the different refresh rates right because of using my own eyes and now I have the same information by using an online tool and a camera. Now I have redundant information and where´s my prize for that?:p
BTW, my projector (DLP) works with 15-60Hz refresh rate, it accepts refresh rates 60-125Hz but then frames are skipped. It has a 6 segment color wheel and I have checked with my camera how often one single frame is really shown in advance. One frame is shown 2 times. So the color wheel spins with 7200 rpm maximum for 60 Hz refresh rate given, often called "2x speed".

[huhn]

i don't known about a tool to check an even frame interval which is important too. (well one could take the camera image and see if the brightness of all squares is even.)

but most important while under and over clocking gives you an images it doesn't mean it is smooth or all frames are shown. this is an information


But the process is ok. I knew before that my monitor can do the different refresh rates right because of using my own eyes and now I have the same information by using an online tool and a camera. Now I have redundant information and where´s my prize for that?

nice for you but who cares about the rest of the user here they don't matter...

[ryrynz]

any tips on how i can improve this 2k down conversion performance ?

I wouldn't bother putting time in wondering if you should upgrade, your graphics card needs upgrading so just do it, a 1GB GPU is laughable if you want to do anything remotely serious with MadVR.

[mparade]

Is it possible for madVR to automatically recognize my Full SBS 3D content (3840x1040p, 3840x800p etc.) as 3D in some way? At the moment it recognizes them as 2D whatever settings I use. On the basis of some test results and the improvement of x265, finally I decided to move from frame-packed MPEG4-MVC to Full SBS HEVC format.

If I want to watch one of my 3D file, I have to switch back to Kodi's internal "DVDPlayer". This one can recognize the type of 3D automatically through the correct text used in the file names.

Any help would be appreciated.

Anyway, thank you very much for this great video renderer.

[nevcairiel]

Only H.264 MVC 3D content is currently supported for automatic 3D playback.

I would be somewhat surprised if any SBS encoding would be more efficient then MVC encoding, considering in MVC you can cleanly encode the differences between the two eyes, while in SBS its one big picture that needs encoding.
On the other hand, perhaps we just don't have decent public MVC encoders available.

[mparade]

Only H.264 MVC 3D content is currently supported for automatic 3D playback.

I would be somewhat surprised if any SBS encoding would be more efficient then MVC encoding, considering in MVC you can cleanly encode the differences between the two eyes, while in SBS its one big picture that needs encoding.
On the other hand, perhaps we just don't have decent public MVC encoders available.

On the other hand HEVC itself is a much more efficient coding than H.264 + MVC. I tested main10 profile with a relatively low crf value to aim some kind of "visual transparency". The resulted file sizes at this quality level(regardless of type of content) are much smaller than the "original" 8 bit H.264 + MVC 3D input.

[nevcairiel]

Blu-ray streams are generally way too huge and could be encoded much smaller with a good encoder (but why would they, have to fill a disc anyway).

[mparade]

Blu-ray streams are generally way too huge and could be encoded much smaller with a good encoder (but why would they, have to fill a disc anyway).

I am playing back from HTPC using madVR, so being efficient and "visually transparent" are some of the most important factors to me. I do not like wasting HDD spaces if it is not a must. Now the problem is they can't be played back correctly using madVR. That's a pity.

[nevcairiel]

I am playing back from HTPC using madVR, so being efficient and "visually transparent" are some of the most important factors to me. I do not like wasting HDD spaces if it is not a must. Now the problem is they can't be played back correctly using madVR. That's a pity.

Isn't it playing properly the most important factor, above saving HDD space? :p

[mparade]

Isn't it playing properly the most important factor, above saving HDD space? :p

Wouldn't it be very easy to improve madVR to support (recognize and handle the format correctly) Full SBS? :)
Now, it handles the format as a 2D image...

[nevcairiel]

Perhaps, but its not something you or I can control. You only get to control what format your videos are in, and until such a day when madVR changes, H.264 MVC still seems to be favorable in that regard.

[mparade]

Perhaps, but its not something you or I can control. You only get to control what format your videos are in, and until such a day when madVR changes, H.264 MVC still seems to be favorable in that regard.

Then the requirement for this "improvement" should be put on the "to do list" of the developer in my opinion. Until the time it is ever involved in madVR, I get madVR to upscale this 2D image to 4K then I will let my 4K TV do the remain work (weary). Much easier would be if madVR simply supported the format...I will not chose H264 + MVC just because of lack of support. It simply isn't worth for me for long-term (for me it is a kind of having water on the brain).

[Gee]

Has madVR access to the filename? If yes it can read a tag such as "F-SBS" and auto switch to correct 3D mode.. would be nice

[mparade]

Has madVR access to the filename? If yes it can read a tag such as "F-SBS" and auto switch to correct 3D mode.. would be nice

That would be very nice. The default player of Kodi is working on the basis of naming conventions. I am using e.g. Croods (2013).3D.SBS.mkv to let DVD Player know the format inside the container. This way the player knows that the content has the resolution of 3840x800p or such and 2 pcs of images placed side-by-side each with the resolution of 1920x800p (or such) and handle accordingly.

[Asmodian]

I wonder about the future of 3D myself, are any of the new 2017 TVs capable of 3D?

[mrmarioman]

So, I few things about HDR. And excuse my noob language ;)

I'm using MPC-HC with the latest MadVR. I have a 980Ti, so I'm using Nvidia's HDR API.
I disabled HDR on Windows 10 and FSE mode on madVR. And it works, kinda. The TV detects the HDR signal and switches dinamically from HDR to SDR when opening/closing MPC HC. But the quality of the HDR is underwhelming --it looks better than SDR but not close to what I see when using the TV's own player. I have my PC set 10 bit 4:2:2 and MPC HC as well. Not sure if I'm missing something.

I've also tried Windows 10 HDR, and it looks great, but when going full screen I get a black screen no matter what settings. Also, when turning HDR on on Windows, SDR content looks super washed out. Only HDR content looks good. So it's a bit annoying having to turn on/off HDR on Windows.

[70MM]

I use JRiver with madvr and set their built in video clock which allows for perfect sync without any frame drops or repeats. The only problem is one can only use PCM, so when I want to play any of my Atmos titles I have to go back to bitstream, then the video clock doesnt work... back to repeat/dropped frames...

Does madshi's new video clock work when bitstreaming?

Using JR VideoClock, you can achieve ultra smooth video playback. VideoClock makes minor adjustments to clock frequencies so that video is played in perfect sync with your display's refresh rate.
You can enable VideoClock in Options > Video. VideoClock. Like other audio features, it is not available when bitstreaming audio.

[Asmodian]

madshi's video clock is not an audio feature, so it works with bitstreaming, smooth motion is also compatible.

JR's VideoClock is badly named since it is messing with the audio clock, not the video clock. :p

[70MM]

Thats good to hear that it will work with bitstream.
The JR clock however works perfectly without any dropped or repeated frames for hours. When I turn it off I get a repeated frame every 10/13mins or so...
However when madshi does include it into madvr I will swap to his version as Im sure its better...

[nevcairiel]

JRivers VideoClock does the same thing as ReClock, it adjusts the audio to match the video.

What madshi is working on is nothing like that at all. All it does is create a custom refresh rate to avoid the need for this in the first place - however this isn't anything new, you could do this manually for a long time. He just tries to make it easier and perhaps automate it to some degree in the future.

[Siso]

JRivers VideoClock does the same thing as ReClock, it adjusts the audio to match the video.

What madshi is working on is nothing like that at all. All it does is create a custom refresh rate to avoid the need for this in the first place - however this isn't anything new, you could do this manually for a long time. He just tries to make it easier and perhaps automate it to some degree in the future.

Which would be awesome! :D

[nevcairiel]

It would be handy for sure, but still its not something magic that solves all the problems - you could just do it yourself today, just takes a bit of work.
Absolutely perfect results depend on your GPU and screen though, but luckily it doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough to hold out for a 2 hour movie or so.

[ryrynz]

I wonder about the future of 3D myself, are any of the new 2017 TVs capable of 3D?

The comparison booklets I have for each of the major brands shows nothing to do with 3D. The only model I know that does is the Panasonic EX750, every other major brand has dropped it completely. LG may possibly add an option to future TVs.. but with fewer sets playing 3D there will be less content as a result, so the future is grim.

[sauma144]

It would be handy for sure, but still its not something magic that solves all the problems - you could just do it yourself today, just takes a bit of work.
Absolutely perfect results depend on your GPU and screen though, but luckily it doesn't need to be perfect, just good enough to hold out for a 2 hour movie or so.

Does it mean reclock like algo would still be more bulletproof?

[Gee]

So, I few things about HDR. And excuse my noob language ;)

I'm using MPC-HC with the latest MadVR. I have a 980Ti, so I'm using Nvidia's HDR API.
I disabled HDR on Windows 10 and FSE mode on madVR. And it works, kinda. The TV detects the HDR signal and switches dinamically from HDR to SDR when opening/closing MPC HC. But the quality of the HDR is underwhelming --it looks better than SDR but not close to what I see when using the TV's own player. I have my PC set 10 bit 4:2:2 and MPC HC as well. Not sure if I'm missing something.

I've also tried Windows 10 HDR, and it looks great, but when going full screen I get a black screen no matter what settings. Also, when turning HDR on on Windows, SDR content looks super washed out. Only HDR content looks good. So it's a bit annoying having to turn on/off HDR on Windows.

U must use D3D11 Exclusive and BT2020 Mode under display devices. and pass throu HDR content direkt to the dispaly if u have a HDC cabable TV. And u must set the display frequency to 50Hz + using reclock


BTW the Questions i must unswerd every time to post a reply are soo dammmmn anoing!! -.-

[Asmodian]

Does it mean reclock like algo would still be more bulletproof?

Yes, but it harms the audio quality, at least theoretically if not audibly. Resampling is definitely a bad thing if it can be avoided.

[hajosattila]

leave it "as measured".
the "calibration" for your display is just reading your display and is not calibration that's done by creating the 3D LUT. (very simplified)

the default settings for the madVR 3D LUT are in general correct.

Another question :D /sorry for my english!/

Colorimeter has arrived. :) I would have a quick question: (madVR 3D LUT / TV Movie preset)

Before I start a measuring, do I need to use the “Interactive Measuring Tool”? or do not i need RGB correction in the TV menu, just start measuring?

I hope I was clear

[huhn]

you don't need to do that but you really should use it to correct the white point and to get the brightness you want to use.

[70MM]

I seem to have a bit of a scaling problem and Im not sure what to do, can someone point me in the right direction please?

Its a bit complicated so I'll try to be as brief as possible.
I have the JVC X9500 in my 12 seat home cinema, I also have a 4K monitor in the cinema foyer which allows me to monitor what and where we are up to in the prog. when I use my cinema for a private film club I run once a week.
I run madvr with the 1080 Ti card and upscale all content to 4K, mostly BDs.
Plus I have a Lumagen Pro, set to passthrough 4K from the PC.
To get the same image in the cinema and the foyer, I setup the gear like this.
PC 4K > Lumagen input, Lumagen output 1 > AVR audio only, Lumagen output 2 > input 4K Gefen 1x2 HDMI splitter > Splitter Output 1 > JVC X9500, Splitter Output 2 > 4K foyer monitor.

This is my result on the madvr menu, Scale 1920, 1080 > 0.0. 3291, 1851, I have this result for all content, 4:3, 16:9, scope
However the odd thing is my Lumagen menu states 3840 x 2160 in and 3840 x 2160 out.

Why am I getting 3291 x 1851 in the madvr menu for all content when it should read 3840 x 2160?
Is it anything to do with the foyer 4K Dell monitor even though the specs state 3840 x 2160?
I have all zoom in madvr off.
https://www.elive.co.nz/dell-professional-p2415q-24inch-4k-monitor.php?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIouqogKTM1QIVEgoqCh3g5gy4EAYYASABEgIuUvD_BwE

Ive just run out of things to test in madvr so Im not sure where else to look...

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to provide as must information as possible.

[nevcairiel]

On High DPI setups one has to be careful that OS DPI scaling is not involved. The safest route is to just disable DPI scaling in the OS (ie. setting it to 100%). Otherwise, you would have to make sure your players work properly, or perhaps your Lumagen is sending odd DPI values because its connected to two screens.

[hajosattila]

you don't need to do that but you really should use it to correct the white point and to get the brightness you want to use.

hmm I do not think this is good::confused:

[70MM]

On High DPI setups one has to be careful that OS DPI scaling is not involved. The safest route is to just disable DPI scaling in the OS (ie. setting it to 100%). Otherwise, you would have to make sure your players work properly, or perhaps your Lumagen is sending odd DPI values because its connected to two screens.

Im sorry but I dont really know what OS DPI scaling is or if it is involved as you state. Where do I disable this scaling to 100% please?

Is this where I have Windows set to 175% for scaling?
If I set it to 100% the image is too large, thats how I used to have it set in the days I used 1080p.

BTW I dont use any players, its just the PC with madvr @ 4K.

[huhn]

Is this where I have Windows set to 175% for scaling?
If I set it to 100% the image is too large, thats how I used to have it set in the days I used 1080p.
but that's what he is talking about.
BTW I dont use any players, its just the PC with madvr @ 4K.

madVR needs a player that is able to use madVR.

@hajosattila

attachments can take a long time before other user like me can see them so please use a image host not the forum function.

calibration is a complicated process that needs properly setup screen to work.

you have to disable vivid mode and stuff like this the list is long.

and the general nature of some screen makes problems too.
like ABL on plasma/OLED and even stuff like local dimming on LCD screens.

a good place to talk about calibration is here: http://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/1471169-madvr-argyllcms-154.html
or you could make a new thread here on the forum there are some skilled calibrators on this forum too.
calibration in general is not madVR related.

[70MM]

but that's what he is talking about.

madVR needs a player that is able to use madVR.

.

Ok I understand now, I use JRiver player.
But I cant set Windows to 100% as I mentioned before as the image is way too big for 4K, I have it set to 175%, but my scaling looks all wrong on madvr.
madvr scales to 3291 x 1851 for all content when it should read 3840 x 2160.

[huhn]

try 200% (i use this myself) and please make a screen of your whole desktop (control + print) with the madVR osd and post it please.

and just to be sure you are on windows 10?

[70MM]

Many thanks for that, I will try 200% and report back. I am on Windows 10.

[Gee]

I will speed up madVR Performance.. would a nVIDIA Tesla help as an extra Prozessor to my gtx 950 ?

The gtx950 shold only work fro hevc and h264 decoding and the tesla for madVR.. is this possible?

[nevcairiel]

I will speed up madVR Performance.. would a nVIDIA Tesla help as an extra Prozessor to my gtx 950 ?

The gtx950 shold only work fro hevc and h264 decoding and the tesla for madVR.. is this possible?

No. madVR can't use more then one GPU.

[Gee]

sooo someone has a GTX 1080TI for less than 100€ 4 me? XD :D

Just a joke..

madVR
now to my real Problem.. i have bad performance issues using D3D11 Exclusiv mode.. by the way i need 10Bit Output.. in D3D9 windowd mode everything works fine but i only get 8Bit Output.. Its not possible to get 10Bit in other ways?

And another question to nevcairiel too, why i have so bad paerformance usign lav CUVID and HEVC decoding? H264 works fine under CUVID My GFX Card is a GTX 950

[huhn]

plz use DXVA copyback and check the nvidia power settings.

[Gee]

plz use DXVA copyback and check the nvidia power settings.

and in copy-back mode im able to use 10bit under d3d9 windowd mode?? I dont think so.. and copy-back is much too slow in my opinion. And what exacly do u mean with nVIDIA Power Settings?

[huhn]

sorry but decoding is not about opinions.

CUVID is known to be "not" optimal to say it friendly.