madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[pacemaker1000]

It's a timing issue. Reclock can't call the notifydisplaychange.exe until it knows the info and by that time, the video is already playing for some time and some number of frames and the video renderer has no information from Reclock (as has already been discussed) and has to then adjust to the fact that some external process (the VBS) has changed/is changing the refresh rate.

thanks for the info.
so from what you are saying it is best to change refresh rate prior to movie starting? i imaging that is what 'autofrequency' does, it reads to file first, changes refresh rate, then launches the player

i did have a good working system useing MB to simply launch 'displaychanger' at 24hz for all files ( as they were all 23/24 or 25) then MPC/madvr or TMT. worked flawlessly but only with MB in windowed mode

my search for a family friendly stutter free system continues

[moophone]

madvr crashing mpchc 1.5.2.3025 x86 on a 1080i ts (see attached log).

If I block madvr form filters it renders. I've noticed other similar behavior but this is a good place to start

Please let me know if there is anything else you require

Cheers

[Andy o]

putting a "23p" on my 25p file's name works like a charm.

[prophete]

Hello madshi, first of all, thank you for your works.

Is it possible to have an option to restore the Frequency when the player (in my case MPC-HC) and madVR are closing?

When you play a 24p movie, it's better to be in 23Hz (23.976) but on the windows desktop or when I navigate in xbmc, it's better to be in 60Hz for have a smooth navigation...

If you don't want to force the restore, you can you an option for "not restore" like I do in AutoFrequency...

another think : I have a problem since the 0.57. I watch movies with mpc-hc and, sometimes, when the movie is finished and I close the player with alt+X, I see my desktop and MPC-HC and madVR stay in memory :(.

I have to kill the mpc-hc process (at this moment, madVR is ending) to comeback to xbmc. With the version 0.56 and above, I never have this bug :/.

sorry for my poor english.

[bozydar]

+1 vote for fixing external refresh rate change via reclock.

I spent couple of hours trying to figure out what did I wrong during software upgrade (new versions of player, renderer, ati drivers, etc.).
I think leeperry gave you required logs... I can provide more:)
Now I am back at version 0.49:(

[Andy o]

What problem are you having? Also, re: ReClock, apparently the change has to be done before the video starts, so it's not possible for ReClock to do it.

[bozydar]

What problem are you having?

Problem was described by somebody else couple of pages before. Basically in full screen exclusive mode madVR produces black screen after refresh rate change.

Reclock fires visual basic script where I change refresh rate. When reclock is doing it, madVR is already initialized and the new rendering path produces black screen.

[Andy o]

I don't think that's a bug, and I thin that's why madshi introduced his own refresh rate changer. If you change refresh rates while in windowed mode it may work, you'll get stuttery video at first, but when changing to exclusive it will fix itself.

[bozydar]

I don't think that's a bug, and I thin that's why madshi introduced his own refresh rate changer.

madVR's refresh rate changer is no match for reclock's vb script mechanism. First of all it is based on filenames, so no DVD or Bluray auto refresh change. Also many people have large video libraries on HDD and don't wanna change filenames.

[e-t172]

Well, I don't see why it would be hard for madshi to listen for a "refresh rate" event, and if one occurs, reset the renderer to adapt to the new refresh rate. I don't know how madVR works internally, but it doesn't seem hard.

[pacemaker1000]

i keep asking in the hope of getting an answer to this.
please please what about dvd support in win7?
will it come?
when will it come
is there a way around it as it is. use a different player to mpc?

i really want to be able to play everything (exept bluray of course) with madvr

[Andy o]

madVR's refresh rate changer is no match for reclock's vb script mechanism. First of all it is based on filenames, so no DVD or Bluray auto refresh change. Also many people have large video libraries on HDD and don't wanna change filenames.

It's not based on filenames. Have you tried it? It very well may work for you. The file names thing is for overriding the automatic switch. I only need it for one file I have which is sped-up 24fps to 25p, which I slow back down to 24p with ReClock, but madVR wants to auto change my refresh rate to 50p.

[SamuriHL]

Madshi has said the dvd support will get fixed but that it's not at the top of the prior list. Therefore no eta.

[pacemaker1000]

It's not based on filenames. Have you tried it? It very well may work for you. The file names thing is for overriding the automatic switch. I only need it for one file I have which is sped-up 24fps to 25p, which I slow back down to 24p with ReClock, but madVR wants to auto change my refresh rate to 50p.

noob here!
where is it?
its not in the setting tab

[Andy o]

It's in the display section. For info on how it works look up madshi's post where he released 0.57 a few pages back.

[midiboy]

Hi madshi,

would it be possible for you to support 3D BR playback? (I mean playback of a MVC encoded BR) It would be nice to have a way to playback the m2ts of a BR in other applications not only PowerDVD. Also a way to switch between 3D and 2D would be great. Thanks !

[SamuriHL]

Basically, under your display in the settings page, expand the options and you'll find it. You need to put valid resolutions that your display supports, and madVR will automagically pick the right one for the video you're playing. E.G. (1080p59, 1080p24, 1080i59) etc.

[bozydar]

Have you tried it? It very well may work for you. The file names thing is for overriding the automatic switch.

I tried it, but I missed the overriding part:). But now I understand what happened: For some reason madVR changed my proper refresh rate (23 on ATI) to something else, and reclock corrected it after a moment (so two changes on movie start). And that ended in black screen...

Maybe I'll give it a try once more, but still I vote for fixing external refresh rate change:)

[Budtz]

Hey guys.

I have a tv that runs at 1360x768 and a pc monitor that runs at 1080. Both displays seem to run at 60hz. I only watch material at 23.976hz. Guess there is no avoiding stutter with this setup.

Do i need to put in anything in the mad display mode matching or just put nothing in and have it disabled.

Kind Regards

[SamuriHL]

If they only support 60 then leaving it disabled is your best bet.

[cyberbeing]

I wish there was a way for madVR to auto-detect 24p/30p VFR MKVs. The Mediainfo library can detect VFR MKVs, but I don't believe that splitters or decoders pass that info until a frame-rate change actually happens. Unless you have madVR call the Mediainfo dll, you would probably need to code something yourself to parse the MKVs (and other VFR containers). In any case, if I have 90Hz, 96Hz, and 120Hz set for madVR to switch to, the splitter reports 24p or 30p frame duration, and madVR detects a variable frame rate, I would like madVR to change the refresh rate to 120Hz (madVR would assume 24p/30p VFR). In the mean-time, it seems I need to tag all my VFR files 120p or not use the madVR refresh rate changer at all.

It would also be nice if there was an option for madVR to switch the refresh rate back to original refresh rate on close.

Oh, must be a bug, will fix that in the next build.
Setting the queue to 1 didn't really seem to improve anything. It may have helped keep queues full, but it made things unstable occasionally. I think my GPU just doesn't get along with Fullscreen Exclusive mode, so I'll stick with Windowed which was smooth enough already.

Using a queue of 1 and After Intermediate Render set to Flush & Wait resulted in lots of presentation glitches. After Last Render Step set to Flush & Wait resulted in none.

On the other hand, the new Fullscreen Exclusive mode works well with my ATI 5750 / Win7 x64 box with queues set to 14 on a 60Hz monitor.

That's because the madVRcpu2 logs contain a *LOT* of logging for finding the cause of the high CPU consumption. These log outputs are removed in the full release builds.
I'll eventually get you these logs... I was busy the past week and didn't watch much.

On another note, I see DPC latency came up again. I guess I'll mention that on that ATI/Win7 box, using madVR results in high DPC latency after 4 seconds have passed (first 4 seconds have low DPC latency). This pretty much coincides with 'clock deviation' appearing in the CTRL+J stats, so I assume that measurement is the cause of the high DPC latency. This has been an issue for months, but I never mentioned it, since I rarely use that PC for playback. It's also possible madVR may be causing high ISR (Interrupt) Latency and not DPC latency at all. I've seen different tools report it differently.

[nevcairiel]

I wish there was a way for madVR to auto-detect 24p/30p VFR MKVs. The Mediainfo library can detect VFR MKVs, but I don't believe that splitters or decoders pass that info until a frame-rate change actually happens.

The Media Type frame rate info is a guess at best, it never was or will be guaranteed to be exact. The MSDN says that field should be zero for content where it does not apply (VFR and other cases) - so even if its set to the appropriate value, you will not know which refresh rates are all taking part in that file.

Even MediaInfo cannot tell you which different refresh rates a VFR file contains, mostly because that information is just not available anywhere. Its not like the MVK says "switching frame rate to 24p".. its just that the frames suddenly have longer gaps between them.

VFR will always suck, and it'll never stop to suck. Best solution is to get people to stop using it. Most people don't have screens that support 120Hz either way, so you're most of the time stuck watching it at 60Hz and living through the 3:2 judder in the 24p parts - because you just cannot switch seamlessly during playback.

PS:
Whats wrong with using 120Hz for all 24p/30p content?

[cyberbeing]

The Media Type frame rate info is a guess at best, it never was or will be guaranteed to be exact. The MSDN says that field should be zero for content where it does not apply (VFR and other cases) - so even if its set to the appropriate value, you will not know which refresh rates are all taking part in that file.
I wasn't suggesting it was the splitters job or it was simple to report VFR info.

Even MediaInfo cannot tell you which different refresh rates a VFR file contains, mostly because that information is just not available anywhere. Its not like the MVK says "switching frame rate to 24p".. its just that the frames suddenly have longer gaps between them.
It would be enough for MediaInfo to detect a VFR MKV and madVR having an option to assume all VFR MKVs are 24fps/30fps VFR, as it relates to the refresh rate changer.

I assume Mediainfo probably parses the entire file for MKV cluster timecodes or something to detect VFR? Not the most practical thing to do, but it sort of works.

VFR will always suck, and it'll never stop to suck. Best solution is to get people to stop using it.
Rather than end-users, it's broadcasters and DVDs which use interlaced VFR. Unfortunately, 24p/30p VFR is just something we are forced to live with in NTSC regions.

Whats wrong with using 120Hz for all 24p/30p content?
This is a 4:3 monitor. I like using 1600x1200 @96Hz for 720p 24fps, 1600x1200 @90Hz for 720p 30fps stuff, and 1920x1080 @120Hz for 1080p and VFR stuff.

If madVR added an option to automatically switch back to 1600x1200 on close, maybe I would consider using 1920x1080 @120Hz for everything.

[yesgrey]

Would be great if everybody could test the "glitch hack" and give FEEDBACK on whether it's better/worse/equal for you.
It's worse for me now.

Tested scenarios and results using a 1080p 1m20s clip:
(1) Fullscreen exclusive (new path) withouth glitch hack
dropped frames 0, delayed frames 0, glitches 1 (at the beggining)

(2) Fullscreen exclusive (new path) with glitch hack
dropped frames 0, delayed frames 0, glitches 43 (increases constantly during playback)

So, for me, making the glitch hack always on would be bad.

Don't forget that my setup is not a typical one. My display is setup to 72.000 Hz, and then I increase my soundcard's clock to 48048Hz to compensate for the difference. Maybe the glitch hack doesn't like that...

[kennae]

Cant really see a difference with the glitch hack. With the new path I sometimes get glitches, but they are because of 25p material in 50Hz. Regular 24p material in 24Hz always work without any glitches, dropped frames nor delays. With new and old path.

Only thing I really can wish to be better in my playback chain is a better software for Reclock. It usually works great, but would be nice to get it off the way and use some more sophisticated way to do the simple pitch change.

I hope I could hop into future and steal some proper software like MadVR 1.0 with all the bells and whistles. :)
(or get some beta versions to test with)

Using always the latest MPC-HC build, latest lavfilters and latest ffdshow and ofc. MadVR.

[pacemaker1000]

Basically, under your display in the settings page, expand the options and you'll find it. You need to put valid resolutions that your display supports, and madVR will automagically pick the right one for the video you're playing. E.G. (1080p59, 1080p24, 1080i59) etc.

:thanks:

found it at last

[pacemaker1000]

Madshi has said the dvd support will get fixed but that it's not at the top of the prior list. Therefore no eta.

pity!

am i right to think its a mpc only issue?
if so is there a different player that will do it?

[Qaq]

Would be great if everybody could test the "glitch hack" and give FEEDBACK on whether it's better/worse/equal for you.
For me glitch hack is almost freezes the whole system: win7, ATI 5450, source and display are 23,976.

[SamuriHL]

pity!

am i right to think its a mpc only issue?
if so is there a different player that will do it?

I honestly don't know. The problem is with some dll I think in the dx library, but, I really don't know the technical issues behind it. I'm sure it's probably been discussed to death before. A search would probably turn up more info on it most likely.

[kennae]

Just rip everything to your comp. Not that hard nor time consuming. Just few minutes with a modern system.

Madshi, stop worrying about dvd-playback and the such.
This is just a renderer and should stay that way.
When the playback is perfect for everyone, then get to the minor things.

[pacemaker1000]

Just rip everything to your comp. Not that hard nor time consuming. Just few minutes with a modern system.

Madshi, stop worrying about dvd-playback and the such.
This is just a renderer and should stay that way.
When the playback is perfect for everyone, then get to the minor things.

my discs ARE ripped but in TS folders

[SamuriHL]

Personally I've been ripping my DVD's to MKV so I can watch them with this setup. It takes like 10 minutes on my machine at MOST. It should get fixed at some point, but, I also agree that it's probably not the biggest priority for madVR. At worse you switch renderers for DVD's for now or convert the DVD's to a format that works. Ideal? No, but, madshi is just one guy working on a pretty complex renderer.

[nevcairiel]

Its not a player thing, its the MS DVD Navigator, which has its issues working with custom renderers.

[starla]

The best would be if madVR could detect if it's a film or video, but considering that some films (few) are pitch corrected that would be impossible.

How about movies that are produced in PAL countries? Not all movies are Hollywood sourced :)

[SamuriHL]

Its not a player thing, its the MS DVD Navigator, which has its issues working with custom renderers.

MS not playing well with others?? NOOOOO! :eek: :D Well that bites. That doesn't sound like a quick fix.

[yesgrey]

How about movies that are produced in PAL countries? Not all movies are Hollywood sourced :)
Right, but almost all movies use film (except a few digital ones more recently), and all film cameras are 24 fps based. ;)

[kennae]

Best to make it so 99% of the common material works and if there is some weird stuff you want to see, it's not that big of an deal to adjust them yourself.

[fiver]

Here is a fresh log using the 120hz special build.

https://s3.amazonaws.com/fiver/temp-share/madVR+-+log.zip

[ajp_anton]

Smo-mo in MPC-HC isn't smooth at all, in both windowed and exclusive. Can this be fixed?

[mrcorbo]

MS not playing well with others?? NOOOOO! :eek: :D Well that bites. That doesn't sound like a quick fix.

To be fair, licensing restrictions probably force this behavior in the MS DVD navigator.

Since, the resolution switching seems to have become a fairly important issue I'd like to ask if there is a technical reason why madvr can't just be made to cope better with external resolution changes during playback? The way this is being implemented in madvr really isn't an ideal fit for my usage requirements, though implementing an option to return to the original display mode on exit would help. Really, I only want the displaymode changes to happen when I switch to fullscreen and to switch back when I return to windowed mode.

[SamuriHL]

To be fair, licensing restrictions probably force this behavior in the MS DVD navigator.


You're probably right. Nonetheless, I like the idea of blaming MS for this issue. :D (I'm only kidding, of course)

[Mark_A_W]

madshi

Just some feedback on v0.58 in Fullscreen windowed mode at 95.904hz interlaced + Reclock (resampling):

- With Backbuffers set at one

- GPU flush settings at:
- Flush
- Flush & wait (sleep)
- Don't flush
- Don't flush

- Glitch hack enabled

I get pretty much perfect results. I've watched quite a few hours now, and I've not seen a visible motion jump/jerk/pause/delay. It "feels smooth" again - I'm no longer sitting there, waiting for the inevitable little jump. Whatever you did, don't break it!!

[meetajhu]

I request x64 version of this decoder. I feel the x64 version of mpc hc is lot responsive than 32-bit and i don't feel like switching back to 32-bit. 64-bit pls!

[kennae]

There should be a damn big sign that says "NO x64 FOR AGES" and the reason stating clearly, it is not worth it.
You are like the 20th that has asked for it, and none has had ANY good points why to create such thing.

[leeperry]

BTW, could you please intercept the windows keys to make mVR turn into windowed mode? and possibly show the windows taskbar?

Sometimes I've got video files w/ errors...that freezes ffdshow, which freezes PotP, which freezes mVR...and in FSW, I can use the left bottom windows key to show the windows taskbar, right-click on PotP and kill it...but in FSE I'm forced to CTRL+ALT+DEL, open the task manager and kill PotP. That's my HTPC, so the keyboard is never easily reachable :o

[Hypernova]

I request x64 version of this decoder. I feel the x64 version of mpc hc is lot responsive than 32-bit and i don't feel like switching back to 32-bit. 64-bit pls!

FYI, I think madshi would think about it if you could scientifically prove that "a lot responsive."

[madshi]

Speaking of keyboard shortcuts in a future version Madshi, I would love to see the following shortcuts added.
Not now. Ask again a couple of months later...

Time for madAR (audio renderer)??
No plans for that at all.

i know i keep banging on about it but please please tell me if dvd support in win7 will be coming and if so when?
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=159492

Perhaps go by file length?

Anything over say 70-80 minutes is almost certainly film-based, and anything under 70-80 minutes is almost certainly video.
If there's a very simple option (e.g. just one checkbox) I can add to make things much better for many people, I will consider that. So far no suggestion covered everyone's needs, though. So: The display mode changer is what it is for now. I said right from the start that it's not the final version, but a simple and stupid first version. You guys can use it in its current form if you find it useful, otherwise simply don't use it.

Is it not possible for the madVR traytool to launch a movie with a switch to choose framerate. Basicallly in the traytool one would set the position of the media player. The traytool can set everything up in relation to screenchanges and refresh rate before the player is even launched by having options in the menu (launcd DVD at 24, or launch dvd at 25 for example).
A lot of things are possible, but I'm not looking at spending many hours on the display mode changer at this point in time. So if you have a suggestion for a very simple improvement that helps lots of people, then I'm open for that. Any complicated time consuming stuff doesn't fit into my to do list at the moment.

madvr crashing mpchc 1.5.2.3025 x86 on a 1080i ts (see attached log).
Unfortunately logs rarely help with crashes. Which splitter/decoder are you using? Have you tried different splitters and different decoders?

I have a problem since the 0.57. I watch movies with mpc-hc and, sometimes, when the movie is finished and I close the player with alt+X, I see my desktop and MPC-HC and madVR stay in memory :(.

I have to kill the mpc-hc process (at this moment, madVR is ending) to comeback to xbmc. With the version 0.56 and above, I never have this bug :/.
Can anybody confirm that this problem was introduced with v0.57 and didn't occur in versions older than v0.57? My impression was that the problem occurred all the time. If it really was introduced in v0.57, maybe I can fix it.

would it be possible for you to support 3D BR playback? (I mean playback of a MVC encoded BR) It would be nice to have a way to playback the m2ts of a BR in other applications not only PowerDVD. Also a way to switch between 3D and 2D would be great. Thanks !
madVR is only a video renderer. For 3D playback you need a 3D capable splitter, decoder + renderer. I do plan to look into 3D rendering sooner or later. But you'll still need a 3D capable splitter and decoder.

I wish there was a way for madVR to auto-detect 24p/30p VFR MKVs.
24p/30p?? What does such kind of content come from? Are we talking about NTSC DVDs? If so, they are likely not 24p/30p, but instead 60i. Deinterlaced properly this might end up as either 24p or 60p.

I think my GPU just doesn't get along with Fullscreen Exclusive mode, so I'll stick with Windowed which was smooth enough already.
Well, you're using very high refresh rates, combined with XP (IIRC) and NVidia. That's a really very bad combination for exclusive mode, it seems. My impression is that ATI handles this situation better. But I'm not really sure since most of you high-refresh-guys seem to use NVidia, for whatever reason...

On the other hand, the new Fullscreen Exclusive mode works well with my ATI 5750 / Win7 x64 box with queues set to 14 on a 60Hz monitor.
Do you have to set the queue to 14 to achieve good results? Or did you do that just for peace of mind?

On another note, I see DPC latency came up again. I guess I'll mention that on that ATI/Win7 box, using madVR results in high DPC latency after 4 seconds have passed (first 4 seconds have low DPC latency). This pretty much coincides with 'clock deviation' appearing in the CTRL+J stats, so I assume that measurement is the cause of the high DPC latency. This has been an issue for months, but I never mentioned it, since I rarely use that PC for playback. It's also possible madVR may be causing high ISR (Interrupt) Latency and not DPC latency at all. I've seen different tools report it differently.
The clock deviation measurement consists of just a few floating point calculations once every second. I don't see how that could result in any latency issues.

It's worse for me now.

Tested scenarios and results using a 1080p 1m20s clip:
(1) Fullscreen exclusive (new path) withouth glitch hack
dropped frames 0, delayed frames 0, glitches 1 (at the beggining)

(2) Fullscreen exclusive (new path) with glitch hack
dropped frames 0, delayed frames 0, glitches 43 (increases constantly during playback)

So, for me, making the glitch hack always on would be bad.
Hmmmmm... Weird. Are you using custom flush options? Do you get the same results with the default flush options (flush, flush & wait (sleep), don't, don't)?

Don't forget that my setup is not a typical one. My display is setup to 72.000 Hz, and then I increase my soundcard's clock to 48048Hz to compensate for the difference. Maybe the glitch hack doesn't like that...
That shouldn't matter at all.

For me glitch hack is almost freezes the whole system: win7, ATI 5450, source and display are 23,976.
With the default flush settings? That's disappointing... :(

Here is a fresh log using the 120hz special build.
Oh man, that looks really bad. Have you tried updating your GPU drivers (probably asked this already)? I'll see if I can figure something out from your log, but ain't going to be easy, so it might take a while.

Smo-mo in MPC-HC isn't smooth at all, in both windowed and exclusive. Can this be fixed?
What is "Smo-mo"? I've no idea what you're talking about...

I get pretty much perfect results. I've watched quite a few hours now, and I've not seen a visible motion jump/jerk/pause/delay. It "feels smooth" again - I'm no longer sitting there, waiting for the inevitable little jump. Whatever you did, don't break it!!
I'm a bit confused. I thought you had pretty good results with windowed mode with all madVR versions? Now you're reporting smooth playback in windowed mode with v0.58 as a changing success. Can you explain?

I request x64 version of this decoder.
:search:

BTW, could you please intercept the windows keys to make mVR turn into windowed mode? and possibly show the windows taskbar?
Windows keys? Plural? :confused:

[pouyoux]

Can anybody confirm that this problem was introduced with v0.57 and didn't occur in versions older than v0.57? My impression was that the problem occurred all the time. If it really was introduced in v0.57, maybe I can fix it.



though I can't say that this problem has been introduced in v0.57 exactly, it's quite new for sure. 3 or 4 releases old at the worst.

EDIT : I've updated mpc-hc too, so the bug can also come from it

[leeperry]

Windows keys? Plural? :confused:
Well, yeah: http://thumbnails28.imagebam.com/12968/cc128e129674670.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/cc128e129674670)

Maybe they have the same ID internally, not sure..anyway, if you could intercept them to show the windows taskbar, this would help a lot when the player's frozen(for whatever reason like a splitter/decoder issue). :thanks:

[nevcairiel]

24p/30p?? What does such kind of content come from? Are we talking about NTSC DVDs? If so, they are likely not 24p/30p, but instead 60i. Deinterlaced properly this might end up as either 24p or 60p.

I actually have one of those too.

Babylon 5 NTSC DVDs - the filmed scenes are 24p, the CGI scenes are 30p. Its really crappy to get it working properly, because the CGI material is interlaced into 60i, and the live action parts are telecined into 60i.......
They did some more nasty things to the CGI on those DVDs anyway, a full read up here (http://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.html) if anyone cares :p