madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[dansrfe]

I have a question:

I want to use MadVR fulltime but I'm missing a simple to use feature on it that MPC-HC has built-in with EVR:CP. On that renderer's settings, I usually enable color management and set to "absolute colorimetric" to achieve the most accurate looking image on my display. How can I achieve the same effect with MadVR?

madVR is already the most accurate renderer to date. If you want more accuracy tailored to your display then use ycms in conjunction with madVR.

[Hypernova]

I have a question:

I want to use MadVR fulltime but I'm missing a simple to use feature on it that MPC-HC has built-in with EVR:CP. On that renderer's settings, I usually enable color management and set to "absolute colorimetric" to achieve the most accurate looking image on my display. How can I achieve the same effect with MadVR?

You may want to look up yCMS thread. I don't use it myself so I cannot say much.

[edragon]

to e-t172
Maybe any option not works when using 260.99 .......
what do you think.....?

[kennae]

One episode of Law & Order down. Default settings, DX11 path, Lancloz 3, 0 dropped frames, 0 repeated frames and one glitch. All queries full.
Seems fine to me. Win7 sp1, GTX 260 with 260.61 drivers. Latest MPC-HC, Relock, FFDShow and LAVsplitter.

[Mangix]

I noticed that as well :confused:

BTW: Does the D3D11 path actually work with GPU's without D3D11 hardware support? (like GTX 260)

try it. theoretically it should be as dx11 is meant to be backwards compatible by design.

[neoufo51]

madVR is already the most accurate renderer to date. If you want more accuracy tailored to your display then use ycms in conjunction with madVR.
Hmmm sounds like I'll have to wait until madVR has a simpler option to customize color management.

[e-t172]

to e-t172
Maybe any option not works when using 260.99 .......
what do you think.....?

The options work, as I can see it in madVR's stats, and they have the usual side effects. For example, when setting 16 frames to present in advance the switch between exclusive and windowed takes more time, as expected. So the options definitively work.

[madshi]

If I enable both "run presentation in a separate thread" and "limit rendering times to avoid glitches" I can use D3D11 mode with 24p @ 24Hz without getting a black screen.
Can I have a log from the black screen situation, please?

Nope, no difference. Also setting it to 8 on v59 produced the same as anything on 60, then back to 10 was ok again...
Try the new option "overshoot max frame latency" in v0.61. I think it should do what v0.59 did in your case.

Does the D3D11 path actually work with GPU's without D3D11 hardware support?
Yes. D3D11 is compatible with DX9, DX10 and DX11 cards.

I think somebody already mentioned it but there is a problem with the new logic for showing the seek bar. Whenever I place the mouse over the taskbar on my primary monitor the seek bar shows up on the secondary.
I haven't changed the seekbar logic. I've just fixed one bug. I'm aware of the problem with secondary monitor, it's on my to do list.

[madshi]

madVR v0.61 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: exclusive -> windowed with D3D11 made media player buttons disappear
* fixed: exclusive -> windowed with D3D11 made media player window too big
* fixed: closing video file in D3D11 exclusive mode resulted in crash
* added new tweak option "overshoot max frame latency"

[Hprd]

Nope, still get glitches... Must've been something else on v59 that worked for me, or do you think that possibly the osd on v59 wasn't reporting glitches properly for some reason? I still think it has something to do with something you changed on dx11 mode from v59 to 59b+, or something like that. As on v61 it still switches super fast, unlike 59 which takes slightly longer.

The dx11 FSE to windowed mode switching bugs (improper window size, dissapearing buttons) are all gone now though on v61 :cool:

EDIT: Actually it still goes to "fullscreen" sometimes, sometimes not.

[fps]

The buttons don't seem to vanish any more, but I sometimes still get those massive frame drops with the approach I described yesterday (don't use CTRL->Return but double left click in MPCHC), though not as often as before.

[sneaker_ger]

* fixed: exclusive -> windowed with D3D11 made media player buttons disappear

Working now.

[madshi]

a) if I enable the "run presentation in a separate thread" option and I start the playback in FSE mode I get stuck frame on screen with audio playing. If I go out of exclusive and back to it everything plays fine. Here is a log http://www.mediafire.com/?tbnakeac9bqxrlr
That's too much going on in that log for me to be useful. Several switches between exclusive <-> windowed and I don't know in which phase exactly the problem occured. If you want me to look into this, please create a log where the problem occurs, then exit the media player. I need the problem in the log (preferably at the end of the log), not the part where it works.

[ale5000]

Win XP SP3
madVR 0.60
MPC-HC 1.5.2.3052

If I press Windows Key + L while the video is still playing (in windowed mode), windows freeze for some seconds and then go on, when I re-enter in the user it show:
madVR reports:
- creating Direct3D device failed (8876086c)
- creating Direct3D device failed (8876086c)

[kasper93]

Switching exclusive -> windowed with D3D11 - Doesn't work at all for me in 0.61 ;/ It freeze video in FS.
log: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/mad/madVR-log.7z
win 7 x64 | hd5870@cat11.4

EDIT

When I pause video and hit ctrl+return it works, but when video are playing it's not work so mouse double click on screen doesn't work... I like that way to switch ;-)

EDIT2

One more question: When decoder queue drops (and frames, because of it...) it's problem only with decoder or it can be caused also by madVR?

[Mark_A_W]

I can't keep up...you are a machine madshi...

So..."* added new tweak option "overshoot max frame latency"".....wot's it do??

[pie1394]

Win7 x64 SP1
madVR 0.61
MPC-HC 1.5.2.3052
1920x1080 23.976 fps H.264 content
Ion (9300M) + Forceware 270.61 at 1400x1050 72Hz

With D3D11 mode, switching from Window mode to Exclusive mode gets Frozen image screen at 9x% chance. After the Mouse Right Button is pressed, the video image becomes OK again.

With D3D9 mode, this operation works fine.


madVR 0.60 + Forceware 266.58 was tested before this change. I have felt the 1080p23.976 content playback has been more stable at 72 Hz on Ion chipset.

madVR 0.61 gets it more perfect w/o obvious dropped or delayed frame. It was often observed on madVR 0.5x for the same video contents.

[Mark_A_W]

D3D11 mode gives me a black screen/frozen screen in 0.61 :(

Non D3D11 exclusive mode is always jerky, no matter the setting. I can set it so it's jerky with reported glitches, or jerky with no reported glitches, but never smooth.

Weirdness for the day, on my first attempt after installation, it fell back to 60hz (it always does this once). Then it rendered in "old path" exclusive (despite being set for several frame in advance), but it was smooth (well, 60hz smooth). Very strange. Old path works well, when it works, it usually fails.

(madshi, if D3D11 mode is exclusive only, then shouldn't that option be under exclusive, rather than general?)


Windowed is still working very well for me.

[madshi]

So..."* added new tweak option "overshoot max frame latency"".....wot's it do??
Just another tweak option to try for people who have problems with glitches. Not sure if it's a good option, I don't think so. But then, everybody seems to have different results, so...

With D3D11 mode, switching from Window mode to Exclusive mode gets Frozen image screen at 9x% chance. After the Mouse Right Button is pressed, the video image becomes OK again.
Log? Close the media player at the frozen image screen, please, don't revive it with Mouse Right Button.

D3D11 mode gives me a black screen/frozen screen in 0.61 :(
Log?

[6233638]

Can I have a log from the black screen situation, please?Absolutely.

http://www.mediafire.com/?zdgi6alryd4bncv

1. Neither Option Selected
2. Limit Rendering Times
3. Run Presentation in Separate Thread
4. Both of the above selected.

It seems that my "fix" is an intermittent one, as taking that fourth log for you also resulted in a black screen.

Worked absolutely fine with three films in a row last night however.

[Mark_A_W]

Log tomorrow...bed now...:scared:

[BatKnight]

@madshi
I am not using your refresh rate switching yet, because it lacks the ability to change only when going fullscreen. So I am still using MPC-HC fullscreen changer.
The thing is that with 0.59 I could go fullscreen and MPC changed by refresh rate from 60Hz to 24Hz, but with 0.61 it takes sometime but stays at 60Hz, then I right click it goes to 24Hz... kinda confusing...
If I disable D3D11 on 0.61 then I have no problem having MPC changing to 24Hz.

Could you add the feature of only changing the refresh rate when going fullscreen? This way I could ditch the MPC-HC changed and always use madVR's.

Thanks
Bat

[pie1394]

Log? Close the media player at the frozen image screen, please, don't revive it with Mouse Right Button.


Here you are!

My settings.bin is copied from old madVR version.
But I am not sure if it is the reason which gets D3D11 messed up...

[sneaker_ger]

I can't leave FSE mode sometimes (D3D11), log:
https://rapidshare.com/files/459642981/0.61-fse2window_fail.7z

[madshi]

@Guys, thanks for all the bug reports. I'll look into them sooner or later.

But what I'm *really* interested in is whether you still have glitches or not. The purpose of the D3D11 option and all the other new tweak options is to get rid of glitches. So instead of being flooded with millions of bug reports it would be nice to get some (more) feedback on whether glitches are still there or not.

Or let me say it in different words: In the next 3 days, nobody is allowed to post a bug report :devil:, unless you've first thouroughly tested for glitches and reported here whether or not you still have glitches and which options work best for you in terms of glitches - while ignoring bugs during the glitch testing.

[SamuriHL]

I can say I have no glitches with either my AMD or nVidia machines with the D3D11 option enabled. I didn't enable either sub-option on either machine. Everything is working perfectly for me. That's with 0.60. I haven't had a chance to test 0.61 but I don't think you've done anything that would break it for me in that. So, I'm good to go with the glitch nonsense! :D

[madshi]

Sounds good. Did you have glitches with D3D9?

[SamuriHL]

Not lately. ;)

[dansrfe]

Ok so D3D11 mentioned bugs fixed in this build. I still have glitches when I'm playing in FSE then go to windowed then back to FSE. I've tried all of the extra exclusive options one by one and the glitches still occur. No dropped or delayed frames.

Also, 0 dropped/delayed frames and 0 presentation glitches in D3D9 even if I go back and forth between FSE and windowed.

[leeperry]

you've first thouroughly tested for glitches and reported here
whatever I choose in the 2 sub-options, the new path makes the presentation glitches increase very fast on XPSP3@96Hz...last time I tried(0.60), they were increasing very very slowly. You got it smooth on your XP/nvidia dev box?

[Plutotype]

0.61 tested, all new tweaks on, backbuffer 3(windowed), frames in advance 3(FSE), all set to "dont flush":
D3D9 60hz / 24 Hz - 1-7 dropped frames at the beginning of the movie, zero further dropped/delayed frames, 0 glitches ( with "overshoot max frame latency" the intro glitch has disappeared too )
D3D11 60Hz / 24 Hz - 1-15 dropped frames (more with 60Hz of course ) at the beginning of the movie, zero further dropped/delayed frames, 1 glitch after playback start also with "overshoot max frame latency" tweak ON.

D3D11 - after going from FSE to windowed and right clicking to get MPC-HC GUI - dropped frames:
http://img852.imageshack.us/f/d3d11fromfsetowindowedg.png/
D3D11 - after playback start, when switching from windowed to FSE, 3 glitches. The same with D3D9, 0 glitches.

[noee]

I have settled on D3D9 as my glitch free mode for now. I'm curious about the D3D11 mode for present. I cannot get it to work reliably with any settings with my monitor at 23.976Hz or 24Hz for 23.976fps playback. What I mean by that is, the present queue hovers from 0-6/6 to 1-6/6 (or any number that I set) and it just drops the frames like crazy.

However, if I fix my monitor at 60Hz and playback the same material the D3D11 mode, I get a full present queue and wonderful, smooth playback (0,0,0). Likewise, if I disable D3D11, and use the 23.976Hz refresh rate, I get wonderful, smooth playback(0,0,0).

So, given the description above re: the D3D11 mode, would this just be that D3D11 mode only works for higher refresh rates or is there some other GPU limitation?

HD2600XT, CCC11.4, Win7 x64 SP1, dual-mon (primary 60Hz, sec 24Hz, both 1920x1080)
LavSPlitter/LAVAudio/FFDshow/madVR/MPC-HC/JRMC
3Dlut OFF|lumaDOWN=Spline3|lumaUP=Spline64|chroma=SoftCubic70
flush|flush-wait|don't|don't

[SamuriHL]

@masdhi

One thing I forgot to mention, but, I think you probably already know this. I've replaced MPC-HC with J River MC16 on my HTPC's as the player of choice. So my latest testing has all been done in MC16. I played a bunch of video on both my AMD and nVidia machines last night, from MKV's to BD's to Tivo files. All played without glitches using the D3D11 mode. I don't know about MPC-HC as I haven't been using it for a few days now.

[kasper93]

One thing that maybe helpful for someone :) Turn off msi afterburner. madVR works lot better without afterburner running in background. It was the reason for all my problem with queues and dropped frames, now is great ;p Sadly I have custom fan settings in afterburner and now I can't use it, but never mind.
Tomorrow I will compare D3D11 vs D3D9 and post results.

[oddball]

For anyone using multi-monitor setups with Nvidia cards. There is an issue where the GPU has higher load when 2 monitors are on the same card. This is by design apparently to make Nvidia cards more stable in dual display setups. If you use a tool like the Nvidia tweaker to set it to only push the GPU load when certain apps are used this can cause all kinds of problems. It's best to leave the GPU and driver to do it's own thing. All those overclocking tools can cause issues too like someone previously said. For video I would leave everything at defaults. Of course this will annoy gamers no end I suspect.

BTW I get no glitches or drops with newest builds from brief testing. I will let you know upon longer testing if I hit any issues using the new options. I would like to see 0 dropped frames and glitches at start but it seems not possible right now? I always playback at 23Hz setting for everything other than 30FPS, 25FPS and 60FPS material.

[Razoola]

I have tried all settings with the dx11 option but I cannot get it to stop incrementing the glitch counter. The only way I stop the glitches is to disable the dx11 option.

[6233638]

But what I'm *really* interested in is whether you still have glitches or not. The purpose of the D3D11 option and all the other new tweak options is to get rid of glitches. So instead of being flooded with millions of bug reports it would be nice to get some (more) feedback on whether glitches are still there or not.When I'm not getting a black screen at the start of playback, D3D11 and those two options (which may or may not be necessary, however I can't test without them) are giving me flawless playback in fullscreen.

Windowed seems to have a few issues, but that's not a concern for me. (and I'll leave you to work on more important things right now)

[pouyoux]

juste tried 0.60 and obviously the D3D11 presentation feature needs some more love :
- I launch a video, go to fullscreen : everyhting works well, and it looks smoother to me than D3D9
- I go back to windowed mode, there are lots of dropped frames with render queue 1-2/8 et backbuffer queue 0-1/3

if I uncheck D3D11 I can go back to windowed mode from fullscreen without problem

problem solved with 0.61

[madshi]

Thanks guys, this is the kind of feedback I'm looking for at the moment.

I still have glitches when I'm playing in FSE then go to windowed then back to FSE. I've tried all of the extra exclusive options one by one and the glitches still occur. No dropped or delayed frames.

Also, 0 dropped/delayed frames and 0 presentation glitches in D3D9 even if I go back and forth between FSE and windowed.
No need to try making D3D11 work if you have perfect playback with D3D9. The D3D11 path isn't necessarily better, it's just different. So if you're happy with D3D9, then just ignore D3D11 for now.

You got it smooth on your XP/nvidia dev box?
My dev box is currently XP + AMD 6850 and plays everything smoothly with virtually all settings.

0.61 tested, all new tweaks on, backbuffer 3(windowed), frames in advance 3(FSE), all set to "dont flush":
D3D9 60hz / 24 Hz - 1-7 dropped frames at the beginning of the movie, zero further dropped/delayed frames, 0 glitches ( with "overshoot max frame latency" the intro glitch has disappeared too )
D3D11 60Hz / 24 Hz - 1-15 dropped frames (more with 60Hz of course ) at the beginning of the movie, zero further dropped/delayed frames, 1 glitch after playback start also with "overshoot max frame latency" tweak ON.
Do you get glitches with all the tweak options off? FWIW, I recommend to try to get along without the tweak options, because that's the "cleanest" solution. Use the tweaks only if you have to. Also, the number of drops/glitches at the start of playback is not that important, IMHO. Most movies begin with several black frames, anyway.

I have settled on D3D9 as my glitch free mode for now. I'm curious about the D3D11 mode for present. I cannot get it to work reliably with any settings with my monitor at 23.976Hz or 24Hz for 23.976fps playback. What I mean by that is, the present queue hovers from 0-6/6 to 1-6/6 (or any number that I set) and it just drops the frames like crazy.

However, if I fix my monitor at 60Hz and playback the same material the D3D11 mode, I get a full present queue and wonderful, smooth playback (0,0,0). Likewise, if I disable D3D11, and use the 23.976Hz refresh rate, I get wonderful, smooth playback(0,0,0).

So, given the description above re: the D3D11 mode, would this just be that D3D11 mode only works for higher refresh rates or is there some other GPU limitation?
For me D3D11 works just fine with 23.976fps @ 23.976Hz, too. Not sure why it doesn't work for you. You could try uploading a log (if you haven't already, not sure).

But as I said above, there's no need to try to make D3D11 work if D3D9 works just fine for you. The only reason why I made a D3D11 option is for people who still have presentation glitches with D3D9.

I would like to see 0 dropped frames and glitches at start but it seems not possible right now?
Maybe if you have a very fast CPU and GPU. But it's hard to realize. Maybe some day I'll find a way to pre-buffer frames before actual playback starts. DirectShow doesn't really seem to support something like that, though. Would probably have to hack DirectShow to make that work.

I have tried all settings with the dx11 option but I cannot get it to stop incrementing the glitch counter. The only way I stop the glitches is to disable the dx11 option.
But are you having glitch-free playback with D3D9? You're using 120Hz, aren't you? Have you found a setting with D3D9 which works glitch-free?

[mindbomb]

what are glitches btw?
If a person is getting 0 dropped frames, 0 delayed frames, but is having glitches, is that a bad thing?

[madshi]

Drops, delayed frames and glitches are all bad. Drops are the worst. Delayed frames and glitches are somewhat similar.

[mindbomb]

btw D3D 11 for presentation helps big time with the cyberlink video decoder in HAM mode.
to a lesser extent, so does setting all the gpu flush options to no flush and running the presentation in a seperate thread.

[Hypernova]

Does glitche expected to happen when I suscessively seek? I actually just relized that glitches you're talking about is not something you see in the picture but stat, so my "problem free" report before was wrong. I rarely have gliches when switch to and from FSE, and occationally have gliches when suscessively seek (MPC-HC jump forward multiple times). DX9/11 doesn't seem much different. Still trying to test more.

[Aleq]

I was always wondering what really a glitch is, if presenting device runs 23.976 fps, video as well and the playback is not smooth. Then it should be either dropped or delayed frame, shouldn't it? Or is it a skipped frame?

I reinstalled W7 x64 recently and I was never able to configure smooth playback since then (I used to be running MPC-HC (older) + EVR + Reclock, projector @ 24Hz to get smooth playback those days). With new setup (the same computer, Thinkpad W510, i7, nVidia Quadro FX 880M) only VLC was smooth (unless it encountered complex scene hehe), in MPC-HC I was having a lot jerkiness. Only recently discovered new madVR saved the day (I tried madVR at early stages and it was not working for me at that time) - ctrl+J showed me that I'm having glitches and with some tweaking (D3D9 exclusive for 23.976 content and D3D9 windowed for 25fps content) everything is perfect (or almost perfect) :-) Thanks, Madshi.

Just a small question - I was using shaders, Complex Sharpen 2 from MPC-HC, it was really bringing picture to another level. Do you plan (at any future) to support custom shaders? I'm using ffdshow but I'm unable to get similar results.

[moophone]

This is slightly OT, but does anyone know how to force my HD5450 to get into 1080p29? I can only do 23,24,50,59,60hz progressively. I can do 25,29,30 interlaced but I want to do 29 progressive..

I tried the registry hack for setting DALNonStandardModes but this isnt really what I want as it doesnt differentiate between interlaced or not..

[Plutotype]

Do you get glitches with all the tweak options off? FWIW, I recommend to try to get along without the tweak options, because that's the "cleanest" solution. Use the tweaks only if you have to. Also, the number of drops/glitches at the start of playback is not that important, IMHO. Most movies begin with several black frames, anyway.


Identical results as posted before in D3D9 / D3D11 modes with following tweaks turned off:

run presentation in a separate thread
limit rendering times to avoid glitches
overshoot max frame latency ( for D3D9 useful when turned on - eliminates the only one "start" glitch )

@23Hz, D3D9 with the MPC-HC feature "launch files in full screen" is giving me the best results to date. 0 frame drops ( 1 frame drop when the movie starts - amazing! ) and 0 delayed frames and 0 glitches after 20minutes of playback. 1 frame drop in many hours.
What should be the point of using D3D11?:)

[pirlouy]

Does your TV allow 29p ? But why don't you want to use 59p ?

[cyberbeing]

_____
WinXP x86 | 7800GTX 512MB | 1920x1080 @120Hz

madVR versions 0.59+ are causing increased present times in fullscreen windowed mode, which appears to be resulting in 1-4 delayed frames per minute.

0.58 | Avg Present 6.57ms | Max Present (5s) 7.07ms | Delayed frames are rare
0.59+| Avg Present 6.97ms | Max Present (5s) 23.05ms | Frequent delayed frames
_____
Win7 x64 | ATI 5750 1GB | 1680x1050 @60Hz

There may also be an issue on my ATI/Win7 box in fullscreen exclusive mode. With versions after 0.58, present queues are no longer stable at 14/14, and there may be a decrease in fullscreen exclusive smoothness on that ATI box as well (I deleted a previous post about this because I was unable easily re-confirm my observation), but I wonder if the above is related. I've yet to test 0.61 on the Win7 box.
_____
p.s. Still getting random madVR hangs on close, but I keep forgetting to use the debug build (I'm hesitant to leave it running and produce multi-GB logs...). Do you remember which revision I first reported this with? It was before you started calculating refresh rate in a new D3D instance, correct?

[mrcorbo]

My earlier report about the DX11 presenter preventing dropped frames with my 720p60 file in FSE mode were actually not correct. Something else that changed between 58 and 60 fixed this and in 61 I am getting no dropped frames or glitches in FSE without use a seperate device for presentation checked, present several frames in advance checked, 4 frames, and all flush options set to don't flush. All this with a fullscreen resolution change to boot. From a performance standpoint, at least for me, you have absolutely nailed it. Fantastic work!

For the record, this is on Win 7 x64, a Radeon HD 6970, 11.4 Cats. MPC-HC 3046 and with SoftCubic scaling on both Chroma and Luma set to 80.

[jdl]

Weird. Try moving the primary monitor down a bit so that the taskbar is *below* the bottom of the secondary monitor. That might work around the issue. It seems that a few pixels of the taskbar are covering the secondary monitor. Don't know why...

Yep, that does fix the issue. Not sure why the two are overlapping like this, but at least it's a workaround. :thanks: