Log in

View Full Version : madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)


Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 [604] 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785 786 787 788 789 790 791 792 793 794 795 796 797 798 799 800 801 802 803 804 805 806 807 808 809 810 811 812 813 814 815 816 817 818 819 820 821 822 823 824 825 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 876 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 927 928 929 930 931 932 933 934 935 936 937 938 939 940 941 942 943 944 945 946 947 948 949 950 951 952 953 954 955 956 957 958 959 960 961 962 963 964 965 966 967 968 969 970 971 972 973 974 975 976 977 978 979 980 981 982 983 984 985 986 987 988 989 990 991 992 993 994 995 996 997 998 999 1000 1001 1002 1003 1004 1005 1006 1007 1008 1009 1010 1011 1012 1013 1014 1015 1016 1017 1018 1019 1020 1021 1022 1023 1024 1025 1026 1027 1028 1029 1030 1031 1032 1033 1034 1035 1036 1037 1038 1039 1040 1041 1042 1043 1044 1045 1046 1047 1048 1049 1050 1051 1052 1053 1054 1055 1056 1057 1058 1059 1060 1061 1062 1063 1064 1065 1066 1067 1068 1069 1070 1071 1072 1073 1074 1075 1076 1077 1078 1079 1080 1081 1082 1083 1084 1085 1086 1087 1088 1089 1090 1091 1092 1093 1094 1095 1096 1097 1098 1099 1100 1101 1102 1103 1104 1105 1106 1107 1108 1109 1110 1111 1112 1113 1114 1115 1116 1117 1118 1119 1120 1121 1122 1123 1124 1125 1126 1127 1128 1129 1130 1131 1132 1133 1134 1135 1136 1137 1138 1139 1140 1141 1142 1143 1144 1145 1146 1147 1148 1149 1150 1151 1152 1153 1154 1155 1156 1157 1158 1159 1160 1161 1162 1163 1164 1165 1166 1167 1168 1169 1170 1171 1172 1173 1174 1175 1176 1177 1178 1179 1180 1181 1182 1183 1184 1185 1186 1187 1188 1189 1190 1191 1192 1193 1194 1195 1196 1197 1198 1199 1200 1201 1202 1203 1204 1205 1206 1207 1208 1209 1210 1211 1212 1213 1214 1215 1216 1217 1218 1219 1220 1221 1222 1223 1224 1225 1226 1227 1228 1229 1230 1231 1232 1233 1234 1235 1236 1237 1238 1239 1240 1241 1242 1243 1244 1245 1246 1247 1248 1249 1250 1251 1252 1253 1254 1255 1256 1257 1258 1259 1260 1261 1262 1263 1264 1265 1266 1267 1268 1269 1270 1271 1272 1273 1274 1275 1276 1277 1278 1279 1280 1281 1282 1283 1284 1285 1286 1287 1288 1289 1290 1291 1292 1293 1294 1295 1296 1297 1298 1299 1300 1301 1302 1303 1304 1305 1306 1307 1308 1309 1310 1311 1312 1313 1314 1315 1316 1317 1318 1319 1320 1321 1322 1323 1324 1325 1326 1327 1328 1329

Skwelcha
18th May 2015, 13:10
nvm: a restart fixed it apperantly..

Anime Viewer
18th May 2015, 13:40
Not sure if its just me but when I played something on my tv which is 1080p thru hdmi I can't fill render queues. When I use my 1080p monitor thru dvi it works fine. This bug only happens with dx11 renderer. This is on amd 290.

Is Smooth Motion running in a different state (on or off) on one compared to the other? How about refresh rate, is one reporting a different screen hz than the other while running the video? Does it have the same problem when running in both the videos normal resolution and in full screen?

6ari8
18th May 2015, 14:32
Anyone else getting a black screen in "D3D11 exclusive (10 bit)" mode in Windows 10TP with the new 352.84 Nvidia drivers? It's fine when using 8 bit but 10 bit gives a black screen.

I was using the Windows 8.1 350.12 drivers before this and had no issues...

huhn
18th May 2015, 14:55
Anyone else getting a black screen in "D3D11 exclusive (10 bit)" mode in Windows 10TP with the new 352.84 Nvidia drivers? It's fine when using 8 bit but 10 bit gives a black screen.

I was using the Windows 8.1 350.12 drivers before this and had no issues...

i get a picture with 10 bit d3d11.
using a 760 and 352.84 on windows 10 10074
8 bit crashed my system after exit.

avinab
18th May 2015, 14:57
I am using latest madvr version.I am on windows 10,nvidia gtx 980 latest version(windows 10 driver)
I am not able to switch to NNEDI in chroma upscaling or use image doubling.It crashes.Can anybody confirm or look into it.
I am using nvidia version 352.84. I am using pot player 64 bit

6233638
18th May 2015, 15:05
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-352-86-whql-driver-released
New driver for Win7 SP1/Win 8.1 users.Huh, these drivers now let you select between an 8-bit and a 12-bit output as well.

I wonder - does that mean that madVR's 10-bit output will be converted to 12-bit?
My display does not report the bit-depth of the incoming signal.

huhn
18th May 2015, 15:06
I am using latest madvr version.I am on windows 10,nvidia gtx 980 latest version(windows 10 driver)
I am not able to switch to NNEDI in chroma upscaling or use image doubling.It crashes.Can anybody confirm or look into it.

works fine which driver version?

huhn
18th May 2015, 15:09
Huh, these drivers now let you select between an 8-bit and a 12-bit output as well.

I wonder - does that mean that madVR's 10-bit output will be upsampled to 12-bit?
My display does not report the bit-depth of the incoming signal.

it should just add some zero but yes. for some reason they "skipped" 10 bit. not sure if they use the highest possible or can't output 10 bit for a screen with 10 bit only (DP 1.2 UHD 60 Hz for example).

nevcairiel
18th May 2015, 15:18
it should just add some zero but yes. for some reason they "skipped" 10 bit. not sure if they use the highest possible or can't output 10 bit for a screen with 10 bit only (DP 1.2 UHD 60 Hz for example).

It offers 10-bit just fine as an option over DP for me. Didn't try HDMI yet.

James Freeman
18th May 2015, 16:10
Windows 7 x64 here.
I have 8 and 10 bit over DisplayPort with my screen, no 12.
Switching to 10bit, my monitor actually goes into 10bit mode so it actually works.
madVR FSE D3D11 10bit switches instantly so that's another sign that all is well.

I have tested and observed the following:
In 10bit mode "Adjust Desktop Color Setting" in control panel (nvidia) actually works in 10bit now, so moving the sliders generate no banding, Hurray!
Operating system Color Management (2DLut) still in 8bit because DWM (Desktop Window Manager) is also still in 8bit, so gradation and banding are generated when I switch on my ICC Porfile.
Windowed Mode in madVR still appears to be in 8bit even if it set to 10bit in madVR, this is again because it has to go through DWM.
Overlay mode is also in 8bit.
In short, EVERYTHING! the whole OS is still in 8bit although the output is in 10bit.

I guess high bit depth DWM is a privileged in windows 10 only, all the older DWM versions of windows (7, 8 , 8.1) are 8bit only.
Or is it? Anyone cares to try windowed mode in 10bit with madVR in 10bit and report is the gradients are visible?

EDIT:
I may be wrong, maybe madshi will be able to call 10bit in windowed mode if the desktop is already in 10bit...

mbordas
18th May 2015, 16:45
FWIW I'm still getting 23.969 refresh rate whenever D3D 11 is on (ie FSE and D3D both enabled), even with 88.8 and the 352.86 nvidia driver. Doesn't matter if I set madvr & nvidia to either 8 or 10 bit, same result. I gather from the discussion earlier this is an issue with D3D 11, but just wondered if anyone else was seeing this. D3D 9 gives me 23.976 just fine.

RainyDog
18th May 2015, 16:51
FWIW I'm still getting 23.969 refresh rate whenever D3D 11 is on (ie FSE and D3D both enabled), even with 88.8 and the 352.86 nvidia driver. Doesn't matter if I set madvr & nvidia to either 8 or 10 bit, same result. I gather from the discussion earlier this is an issue with D3D 11, but just wondered if anyone else was seeing this.

I get 23.970 on my GTX 970 with D3D11.

I have a custom resolution set-up for nearly perfect 23.976 in D3D9 but it seems to be getting overridden in D3D11 exclusive mode for some reason.

nevcairiel
18th May 2015, 17:21
madVR 0.88.8 crashes when playback finishes (EOF) in JRiver Media Center. I got the madVR crash reporter box and tried to send a port, but sending failed, unfortunately.

Hitting "Stop" also crashes on that system.
NVIDIA GTX 660 (352.86), Windows 8.1.

Unfortunately, I was unable to reproduce on another system, but then, it is my only system with only one screen attached, so that might be a relation.

Edit:
Crash report: http://pastebin.com/qCcV85HQ

Asmodian
18th May 2015, 18:43
Though the 10-bit output was working, I had to reduce this from 16 to 12 on my system to stop the queues being almost empty in the 10-bit DX11 FSE mode.
Only 10-bit was affected, 8-bit DX11 FSE worked just fine at 15. (16)

Windows 8.1 x64, GTX570 (350.12 and 347.88 tested), 32-bit madVR 0.88.8

EDIT: Actually this didn't fix the problem.
After 20-30 seconds of playback, every 5 seconds or so it started switching between full queues and almost-empty queues again, and stuttering while reporting a presentation glitch.
Reducing this even further (8) may have fixed the issue but I'd have to watch something reasonably long to confirm it.

EDIT2: After 30 minutes of playback, the queues remained full and there were no presentation glitches.
That may not solve it on everyone's system, but seems to have fixed the problem for me.

I noticed this same issue last night, with v0.88.8. I usually use lower buffers of 6 present and 8 render but I was experimenting with turning them up again. As soon as I go over 8 present the rendering queue gets stuck at 1-4 full and present stays similarly low. No dropped frames or anything though. With 8 or below presented in advance I can use 24 rendering buffers without any issues.

Win 8.1 x64, GTX Titan, 350.12. Watching 1080p in d3d11 windowed or full screen windowed.

Razoola
18th May 2015, 19:21
http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/geforce-352-86-whql-driver-released

New driver for Win7 SP1/Win 8.1 users.

These new drivers are very sucky for me. I have lost the ability to choose the HDMI signal type and color range.

daert
18th May 2015, 19:36
To those having problems with framerate in FSE d3d11, try to use this tool: http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU
I had the same issue as you and it solved my problem

BetA13
18th May 2015, 19:54
These new drivers are very sucky for me. I have lost the ability to choose the HDMI signal type and color range.

They moved it to the resolution section of the control panel.
there are teh settings now...

huhn
18th May 2015, 20:15
It offers 10-bit just fine as an option over DP for me. Didn't try HDMI yet.

so i guess everything is fine. very good to hear.

huhn
18th May 2015, 20:16
madVR 0.88.8 crashes when playback finishes (EOF) in JRiver Media Center. I got the madVR crash reporter box and tried to send a port, but sending failed, unfortunately.

Hitting "Stop" also crashes on that system.
NVIDIA GTX 660 (352.86), Windows 8.1.

Unfortunately, I was unable to reproduce on another system, but then, it is my only system with only one screen attached, so that might be a relation.

there should be a crash report on the desktop.
and bug sending didn't worked for me a long time was kind of shocked it worked the last time.

yok833
18th May 2015, 20:25
They moved it to the resolution section of the control panel.
there are teh settings now...

Is it just me or with the Nvidia control panel when you create a custom resolution you cannot anymore select between full and limited & between rvb anc ycbcr444 ??

mark0077
18th May 2015, 21:30
Guys, do any of you use SVP, or regularly input 60fps into madVR. If so do you need to / or recommend increasing the "GPU queue size:". Just I have been using CPU queue of 16 and GPU queue of 8. Just I notice when I'm using a "reduce banding artifacts" -> "strength during fade in/out" setting of "high", then during scene changes, the render queue drops and I seem to lose exactly 3 frames during each scene change. My gpu and cpu usage are cpu: 40% and gpu load: 29% (Core i7 920 @ 3.6ghz and Asus GTX 980 Strix)

When I increase the GPU queue to 16 I no longer get any frame drops, but during each scene change I see the render queue drop from 15-16 to 10-16 each time.

I just honestly would have thought with 1080p content on a 1080p screen, with only chroma being upscaled using Jinc, that the default queue sizes would be fine for this GTX 980 but this debanding setting seriously hammers it on scene changes? I was just wondering is this expected, or is there something madVR could do differently in this situation to not drop frames / use the resources better. I'll increase my queues anyways, just thought it was worth mentioning incase theres a possibility of improvement in this area, with default queue sizes for 60fps content. If you could suggest any equivalent setting with Shiandow's deband algorithm I can try this if its of any interest from a performance point of view.

nijiko
18th May 2015, 21:53
For double videocards users, how to force one of them to render?

On Win8.1 64, HC64 + madVR64, both DX9 and DX11, why can't get into fullscreen exclusive mode?

nevcairiel
18th May 2015, 22:07
there should be a crash report on the desktop.
and bug sending didn't worked for me a long time was kind of shocked it worked the last time.

Unfortunately, there is not.
I did however manage to copy-paste the contents of the crash dialog.

http://pastebin.com/qCcV85HQ

Asmodian
18th May 2015, 23:11
Guys, do any of you use SVP, or regularly input 60fps into madVR. If so do you need to / or recommend increasing the "GPU queue size:". Just I have been using CPU queue of 16 and GPU queue of 8. Just I notice when I'm using a "reduce banding artifacts" -> "strength during fade in/out" setting of "high", then during scene changes, the render queue drops and I seem to lose exactly 3 frames during each scene change. My gpu and cpu usage are cpu: 40% and gpu load: 29% (Core i7 920 @ 3.6ghz and Asus GTX 980 Strix)

When I increase the GPU queue to 16 I no longer get any frame drops, but during each scene change I see the render queue drop from 15-16 to 10-16 each time.

I just honestly would have thought with 1080p content on a 1080p screen, with only chroma being upscaled using Jinc, that the default queue sizes would be fine for this GTX 980 but this debanding setting seriously hammers it on scene changes? I was just wondering is this expected, or is there something madVR could do differently in this situation to not drop frames / use the resources better. I'll increase my queues anyways, just thought it was worth mentioning incase theres a possibility of improvement in this area, with default queue sizes for 60fps content. If you could suggest any equivalent setting with Shiandow's deband algorithm I can try this if its of any interest from a performance point of view.

On a fade detection debanding re-renders 5 frames so the drop to 10/16 is expected. There is a "trade quality for performance option" to stop this. I also notice this feature can drop frames when using lower queue sizes.

x7007
18th May 2015, 23:40
The Asus G751JT is crappy LCD Monitor, I'm sure I had better monitor in the Asus G750JH . first I can't do 0-255, second when installing the new drivers 352 I have only 6 bcp option... and I can't check it on the G750JH because it is a ATI 5870M card. but I'm sure I could 0-255 without crash black on the laptop. asus screwed us totally. Can I still choose 8 bit in Madvr or should I use 6 bit ?


Monitor
Manufacturer............. LG Display
Plug and Play ID......... LGD046C
Data string.............. LP173WF4-SPD1
Serial number............ n/a
Manufacture date......... 2014, ISO week 0
Filter driver............ None
-------------------------
EDID revision............ 1.4
Input signal type........ Digital (DisplayPort)
Color bit depth.......... 6 bits per primary color
Color encoding formats... RGB 4:4:4, YCrCb 4:4:4
Screen size.............. 380 x 210 mm (17.1 in)
Power management......... Not supported
Extension blocs.......... None

Patrik G
19th May 2015, 04:17
this video renderer lives its own life ;)
before i had fullscren exclusive mode at 10 bit
now the it says "fullscreen exclusive" NEW PATH

what is that?
and why the does it change settings on its own?
i havnt changed anything.

x7007
19th May 2015, 05:06
this video renderer lives its own life ;)
before i had fullscren exclusive mode at 10 bit
now the it says "fullscreen exclusive" NEW PATH

what is that?
and why the does it change settings on its own?
i havnt changed anything.

I still don't get it how all of you get 10 bit.

you can only get it with Full Exclusive mode ?

You watch movies with it showing 10 bit ? or what do you do with it

Anime Viewer
19th May 2015, 05:40
I still don't get it how all of you get 10 bit.

you can only get it with Full Exclusive mode ?

You watch movies with it showing 10 bit ? or what do you do with it

If you're talking about it reading:
"D3D11 exclusive [10 bit]" in the OSD then yes, you'd have to set it to "enable automatic full screen exclusive mode" in the general settings area under rendering. The other things you'd need to get that OSD reading would be:
"use Driect3D 11 for presentation" in general, and "10 bit (or higher)" in "the native display bitdepth is:" area in the properties area of your screen under the devices area of madVR settings.

XRyche
19th May 2015, 08:03
Why are so many people intent on 10 bit to the display? I didn't think there were that many 10 bit capable displays/TVs owned out there. I haven't noticed any significant IQ improvement on my lowly 8 bit IPS monitor when using 10 bit. If any thing the pause and flicker in the switch between FSE and FS Windowed is a little annoying. Am I missing something?

Ver Greeneyes
19th May 2015, 08:29
You need at least a 10-bit monitor to take advantage of 10-bit output. Using it on your 8-bit monitor will give you worse quality since it will basically bypass madVR's dithering to fall back on the dithering of your display or GPU.

10-bit output is basically for people with displays advertising 'deep color' and things like that. With the advent of Blu-Ray there's quite a few of those these days. Also considering madVR is all about getting the best display quality 'at any cost' (so long as it can be done in realtime on high end hardware), this thread is probably not representative of the average adoption rate for 10-bit displays :)

nijiko
19th May 2015, 09:27
@huhn , does Lenovo Thinkpad use a 6bit displayer?

James Freeman
19th May 2015, 10:29
You need at least a 10-bit monitor to take advantage of 10-bit output. Using it on your 8-bit monitor will give you worse quality since it will basically bypass madVR's dithering to fall back on the dithering of your display or GPU.

Are you sure?

I think switching to 10bit in madVR does not disable dithering, but it does make the dithering less strong.
If madVR would have 16bit option with dithering enabled, on an 8bit monitor it would look completely undithered.
As an opposite to that statement, we already can see that if one selects a lower bit depth, the dithering is a lot stronger.

If I understand correctly, madVR does not dither the exact integer steps, but only the ones that do not match.
As a result if one selects 10bit in madVR, madVR will not dither the steps that should fall exactly on a 10bit display.
In other words, banding will be generated the higher the bit depth mismatch between the Display and the GPU output.

The 8472
19th May 2015, 10:38
There's a new superresolution upscaler for still images: https://github.com/nagadomi/waifu2x/ based on http://arxiv.org/abs/1501.00092

There also is a webservice running that implementation which has been trained with anime-style images and provides very good results on that type of material, especially on fine lines that are barely a pixel wide and fairly aliased. It also seems to introduce fewer fake details on flat surfaces than nnedi.
If you run it on real life images you'll get oil paintings.
Specialization a specific kind of content seems to have a pretty big impact.

Source image (http://i.imgur.com/uWMu9zt.png)
new upscaler w/ noise reduction (http://i.imgur.com/WnHLPE4.png)
new upscaler w/o noise reduction (http://i.imgur.com/QG8aVtr.png)
NNEDI3 32 w/ SuperRes (http://a.pomf.se/ywwfia.png)
NNEDI3 64 w/o SuperRes (http://a.pomf.se/smpgig.png)


I figure it's too expensive to run this in realtime, thus my question is can we get madvr any closer to those results? E.g. by having separate live action / animation modes for nnedi3?

Edit: added needi w/o superres

Ver Greeneyes
19th May 2015, 11:24
Are you sure?

I think switching to 10bit in madVR does not disable dithering, but it does make the dithering less strong.
If madVR would have 16bit option with dithering enabled, on an 8bit monitor it would look completely undithered.
As an opposite to that statement, we already can see that if one selects a lower bit depth, the dithering is a lot stronger.

If I understand correctly, madVR does not dither the exact integer steps, but only the ones that do not match.
As a result if one selects 10bit in madVR, madVR will not dither the steps that should fall exactly on a 10bit display.
In other words, banding will be generated the higher the bit depth mismatch between the Display and the GPU output.Right, that's what I meant. madVR will only dither the least significant bit, so if you send a dithered 10-bit image to an 8-bit display, that will at most affect the display's (or GPU's) dithering decisions in representing this 10-bit image as an 8-bit one. madVR's dithering will likely do very little.

ryrynz
19th May 2015, 12:19
I figure it's too expensive to run this in realtime, thus my question is can we get madvr any closer to those results? E.g. by having separate live action / animation modes for nnedi3?

I just did my own test with one of their test images and NNEDI3 is superior when used at higher neuron counts. What you're seeing as a difference there with your own shots is the SuperRes sharpening.. drop that and it'll look a lot closer. Plus that particular resizer has a smoothing function (hence the flatness) when I did the test I clicked no noise reduction for a fair test (madVR doesn't do that with NNEDI) and NNEDI3 delivered a nicer picture without the excessive sharpening I got from waifui2 which made the JPEG artifacts of their test image (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/nagadomi/waifu2x/master/images/slide_result.png) even more "noisy"

TBH it looked quite terrible in comparison, it's not until you use their denoising filter (which wouldn't be something you'd use generally with video presentation these days (anyone still watch blocky MPEG video?)) that it looks any "good".

So NNEDI3 blows waifu2 away in the most important area (line construction) check out left side hair clip (nearest neighbour upscale? eww) and the hair outlines.
Sure waifu2 used with a blur is cleaner and sharper but it's totally overdone. madVR at some point may add an actual denoiser or deblocker but you could achieve better results than waifu easily using avisynth/ffdshow and combine that with NNEDI3. The only area I see where waifu2 does better is determining line accuracy in the deep corners (near right eye and right arm) If NNEDI3 could be modified to get the same results there that would be a nice improvement.

My results (http://imgur.com/a/HRgsW) with their test image.

huhn
19th May 2015, 12:44
You need at least a 10-bit monitor to take advantage of 10-bit output. Using it on your 8-bit monitor will give you worse quality since it will basically bypass madVR's dithering to fall back on the dithering of your display or GPU.

10-bit output is basically for people with displays advertising 'deep color' and things like that. With the advent of Blu-Ray there's quite a few of those these days. Also considering madVR is all about getting the best display quality 'at any cost' (so long as it can be done in realtime on high end hardware), this thread is probably not representative of the average adoption rate for 10-bit displays :)

displays alter the picture quite a lot. if it is chroma sub sampling color correction or other stuff. so sending 10 bit to a native 8 bit panel can help a lot. and displays can dither even my TV can do this.

@huhn , does Lenovo Thinkpad use a 6bit displayer?

i don't know. but these are laptops there displays are usually cheap.

Ver Greeneyes
19th May 2015, 13:03
displays alter the picture quite a lot. if it is chroma sub sampling color correction or other stuff. so sending 10 bit to a native 8 bit panel can help a lot. and displays can dither even my TV can do this.Sure, but the dithering quality isn't necessarily going to be very good. If it only accepts 4:2:0 input I could see 10-bit helping a lot though, yeah, assuming it uses the 10-bit information internally.

The 8472
19th May 2015, 13:05
I just did my own test with one of their test images and NNEDI3 is superior when used at higher neuron counts. What you're seeing as a difference there is the SuperRes sharpening.. drop that and it'll look a lot closer. Plus that particular resizer has a smoothing function (hence the flatness) when I did the test I clicked no noise reduction for a fair test
Good points, I'll add some more variants based on that to my previous post

NNEDI3 blows waifu2 away, no contest in the most important area (line construction) sure waifu2 used with a blur is cleaner and sharper but it's overdone.

I have difficulty parsing your statement there. Are you saying that NNEDI3 or that waifu2 performs better at line construction? In my eyes it's the latter. Especially regarding the scarf in my sample images.

huhn
19th May 2015, 13:08
Sure, but the dithering quality isn't necessarily going to be very good. If it only accepts 4:2:0 input I could see 10-bit helping a lot though, sure, assuming it uses the 10-bit information internally.

madVR used for years random dithering. and why should the dithering be bad? even with 8 bit RGB input a screen will dither/process it's not like the whole color correction and other stuff isn't applied anymore.

even my cheap old display accept 10/12 bit and is dithering it.

Nevilne
19th May 2015, 13:12
The 8472, your NNEDI3 images are 130kb jpegs.

ryrynz
19th May 2015, 13:19
I have difficulty parsing your statement there. Are you saying that NNEDI3 or that waifu2 performs better at line construction? In my eyes it's the latter. Especially regarding the scarf in my sample images.

I've edited my post, take a look. NNEDI3 is superior, don't confuse line sharpness with line construction ;)

The 8472
19th May 2015, 13:20
The 8472, your NNEDI3 images are 130kb jpegs.

Ugh, imgur is compressing them. The originals are PNG. One minute, I'll replace them.

Edit: fixed

leeperry
19th May 2015, 13:22
If NNEDI3 could be modified to get the same results there that would be a nice improvement.
NNEDI3 would appear to be a black box whose secrets are only known by tritical himself (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1721243&postcount=2069) and he hasn't released stuff in a while AFAIK so I wouldn't set my hopes too high.

ryrynz
19th May 2015, 13:31
NNEDI3 would appear to be a black box whose secrets are only known by tritical himself (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1721243&postcount=2069) and he hasn't released stuff in a while AFAIK so I wouldn't set my hopes too high.

Apparently he was working on a NNEDI4? He's been contacted recently, so it might not be terribly hard to improve it.
Looks like the waifu code is available to use for anyone that wants it judging from the license.. I wonder if shiandow could adapt NNEDI3 with waifu2x's improved neural guesswork.

The 8472
19th May 2015, 13:46
I've edited my post, take a look. NNEDI3 is superior, don't confuse line sharpness with line construction ;)

Hum, ok, maybe my jargon is off.

Compare any of the nnedi3 images vs. the waifu2 I've posted and look at the scarf. scarf, stairs, nnedi (http://i.imgur.com/OqQgCkW.png)

What waifu2 seems to do better is avoiding the stairs effects on fine lines.

How would you call that? It's obviously more than just dumb smoothing/sharpening.

The stairs that nnedi "preserves" are what sticks out like a sore thumb to me, because that's an artifact of rasterization of finer lineart.

huhn
19th May 2015, 14:13
waifux2 is clear better in term of details at the cost of a lot of aliasing.

but the source has a ton of aliasing too so hard to judge

ryrynz
19th May 2015, 14:33
What waifu2 seems to do better is avoiding the stairs effects on fine lines.


Probably shouldn't continue much further with this discussion here but those words link to the same file.

waifux2 is clear better in term of details at the cost of a lot of aliasing.
but the source has a ton of aliasing too so hard to judge

Fine details judging from what 8472 says.. I guess we could open a new thread for more comparisons.

XMonarchY
19th May 2015, 14:39
I was right about 8bit + FRC NOT being the same as true 10bit. nVidia just added an option to select color depth in its latest 352.86 drivers and it will not let me select anything other than 8bit on my 8bit + FRC monitor (Eizo Foris FG2421 - using DisplayPort). True 10bit monitor would be allowed a setting of 10bit in nVidia CP. Using 10bit setting in madVR is a bad idea for 8bit + FRC monitors. I will either not work or make rendering quality worse than it would be if you selected 8bit. Bit depth selection and HDMI Full/Limit color range can be selected under "Change resolution" in nVidia CP in 352.86 drivers. Just scroll down and you will see the new options.

I have this odd problem. I can use Direct3D 11 with Sync sub-option underneath it on my 120Hz FG2421 monitor without ANY frame drops or problems. However, when I use my HDTV at 23Hz, I get constant frame drops with Direct3D 11 with or without the Sync sub-option underneath it. Why is that? Is it because ReClock works harder @ 23Hz or what? I thought 120Hz would be the one with problems because it requires faster rendering.

huhn
19th May 2015, 14:50
I was right about 8bit + FRC NOT being the same as true 10bit. nVidia just added an option to select color depth in its latest 352.86 drivers and it will not let me select anything other than 8bit on my 8bit + FRC monitor (Eizo Foris FG2421). True 10bit monitor would be allowed a setting of 10bit in nVidia CP. Using 10bit setting in madVR is a bad idea for 8bit + FRC monitors. I will either not work or make rendering quality worse than it would be if you selected 8bit.

P.S. Bit depth and HDMI Full/Limit color range can be selected under "Change resolution" in nVidia CP. Just scroll down and you will see the new options.

what connector are you using?
and if your device doesn't accept 10 bit input it's kind of worthless to send 10 bit to the driver.

but not all 8bit+ FRC doesn't accept 10 or 12 bit input.

XMonarchY
19th May 2015, 14:57
what connector are you using?
and if your device doesn't accept 10 bit input it's kind of worthless to send 10 bit to the driver.

but not all 8bit+ FRC doesn't accept 10 or 12 bit input.

I use DisplayPort. I guess its just my monitor that does not accept 10bit. I wonder if there is a way to force it... I mean there is DEFINITELY dithering going on on my monitor. I can see it easily.