madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

Thanks nevcairiel for that explanation. Im pleased that madvr is doing the right thing, what isnt then is many of the 576 DVDs.
99% of my classic BDs that are 4x3 fit perfectly within the motorised preset side masking I have set for 4.3, 16.9 and scope 2.35.
The presets are setup correctly from the Spears & Munsil test disc.

However may of the 4x3 DVDs I have the left and right edges miss the preset 4.3 side masking, unlike their BD cousins.
I can fix this with the zoom control, but the smallest % any of us can use is 25% zoom.
Using 25% zoom in this scenario is way to big and overshoots the 4x3 masking ratio up to approx 1.66 ratio, whereby cropping the top and bottom of the image too much.

I really wish madshi would make some smaller zoom steps e.g. 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, this would fix these incorrect sizings from some DVDs on 4x3 material.
It would be a very simple fix, not important for most who use monitors or TVs, but those with projectors and masking it would be a very welcome bonus!
I did mention this many months ago, as I also use the zoom control for some of the odd scope ratios that arnt 2.35, like Ben Hur and many of the very early Fox scope titles that are wider than todays scope.
The 25% often zooms up too large, having smaller steps would be great for us guys with projectors and motorised masking...wink wink :)
nearly any playback software supports this manually. and if you want to crop as little as possible but enough to get all black bars this is the only reliable way to make sure it will work in any case.
and there is another way too to do this fully automatic.
you create a profile for devices and create a masking for 4/3 content (480 right and 480 left on an UHD screen it is bigger on a 4096p screen but i'm sure you can do the math on your own)
after that you go to create the same profile for zooming just to be save and check "automatically detect hard coded black bars", "if there are big black bars" -> "... zoom the bars away completely" and "zoom small black bars away".


What does the 480 mean?
and why is the 3360 not 3840 like my 16x9 BDs are?
I just dont understand the scaling...
that really did confuses of me with 4/3 content in my mind but what it's fine.

[nevcairiel]

Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.

[Owyn]

automatically detect hard coded black bars: [Disabled] This enables the options below. madVR can detect and remove black bars on all sides of the video.

This does seem to crop bars at top\bottom, but not on on the left... bug?

screens:
original: http://i.cubeupload.com/b7mMse.png
cropped: http://i.cubeupload.com/llq8ia.png

[huhn]

Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.

it will not work on a 16/9 if they are left and right only well until you mask it.

[70MM]

Its somewhat "normal" for older DVDs to have a bit of black bars encoded, especially if they are 4:3. madVRs automatic zoom control might be able to deal with it.

madvr auto zoom control doesnt do it in the 4x3 DVDs, Ive tried that many times...

[70MM]

and there is another way too to do this fully automatic..............the method......
that really did confuses of me with 4/3 content in my mind but what it's fine.

The method you state seems really complicated and hard to implement Im sorry to say. If the zoom settings in madvr had smaller steps as stated 5%,10%, 15%, 20% then the actual first one which is 25% this would be simple and easy to use. Just those four.....

[huhn]

it pretty easy to do it is pretty much nothing compared to setting up multiply profiles.
and the most important part is it will work 100% automatic and it will crop as least as possible and only as much as needed.
you can even skip the profile part and manual check masking when a 4/3 source is played.

I mean why add options that only do the crude work when the current implementation is way more accurate.

[70MM]

What is your method actually measuring to make the change automatically with the mask huhn?
Is it measuring the bar at the top and bottom and zooming them away to full screen?

If thats the case it doesn't necessarily work correctly if the 4x3 image is already full screen top and bottom within the 16.9 DVD...
What I need is to slightly zoom 4x3 images that are not quite wide enough within the 16X9 frame even if they are full frame top/bottom.
I dont mind if the image is slightly cropped top/bottom.

I already have a Profile for 25% zoom, but its too big a step, I probably only need a 5% zoom for DVDs that are affected this way.

Ive tested many times zoom small and big black bars away automatically but since it doesnt happen, I take it the 4x3 DVDs are already full frame top/bottom and thats where madvr measures from, not the sides...

[huhn]

it simulates a 4/3 screen with touch from outside kind of.

so it will try to always remove all blackbars in the image up to a resolution of 2880x2160 and it will not try to remove the giant black bars that is mask by your projector it will always leave it black.
without this madVR will try to remove the huge blackbars created by the 4/3 image displayed on 16/9 screen making cropping 25% such a big step.

another easy "fix" for this problem should be the media player.
in mpc-hc you can use 9 on the numlock(with active numlock) to zoom in by 2% steps most other media player should have this option/feature too.

[70MM]

Yes the 2% steps would be great! Im just looking to see if JRiver has that zoom feature as I use JR with madvr.... Will report back...

[arrgh]

info: I updated here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1820027#post1820027) the link for the inf file for the driver pakage since the previous one only recognized HD620 graphics.

[DragonQ]

Back to my 720x576 DVDs that seem to be a bit small on my 16X9 screen when I set the motorised black masking to 4X3 as in this image. It always seems ok on 720x480 DVDs...
OSD states movie 720X576
Scale 0,0,720,576 > 480,0,3360,2160, is this correct?

What does the 480 mean?
and why is the 3360 not 3840 like my 16x9 BDs are?
I just dont understand the scaling...
https://snag.gy/Hvj2CT.jpg
Looks like overscan to me. Enable madVR's black bar detection if it bothers you?

[steakhutzeee]

Same movie, first image with MPC-BE with Madvr, second with VLC without Madvr. With Madvr i can notice that the image is too much bright and less detailed as i can see, what i've to change?

With Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/61yp7gs8fv/

No Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/7j4u97x81n/

You should download the images to see the difference.

I use: chroma u.= NGU Sharp, medium. / image d.=SSIM, 1D 100% anti r. relaxed, anti b, 100%. / image u.= NGU sharp, high luma doubling; the rest madvr decide. / No upscaling refinement. I'm on 1920*1080 FullHD.

Thanks!

[huhn]

the second screen is full of compression artefacts like banding and even some blocking.

are you using madVR debanding or something?

[steakhutzeee]

the second screen is full of compression artefacts like banding and even some blocking.

are you using madVR debanding or something?

Sorry i'm not so good at it so, two questions:

-Where i have to see to find these problems in the screenshot i made?

-Where i have to check in madvr settings to find what you asking?

EDIT: Sorry but, second screen is 'without' madvr. Madvr is present only in first screenshot, i named picture accordingly.

Thanks :)

[huhn]

processing artifact removal -> reduce banding artifacts

[steakhutzeee]

processing artifact removal -> reduce banding artifacts

Both two banding options sets to high. As i said, first image is with Madvr, second is without.

https://postimg.org/image/27iemzj4d7/

[huhn]

disable it or try low.

[el Filou]

Yes, that does not help with the LG OLEDs, to be honest the LG panels have serious issues with the way they handle ARC and stuff. I found the solution is to have everything go via the AVR first.Ah right, I'm not using ARC, maybe that's why it works better for me.

[70MM]

another easy "fix" for this problem should be the media player.
in mpc-hc you can use 9 on the numlock(with active numlock) to zoom in by 2% steps most other media player should have this option/feature too.
Ive searched everywhere in JR for an easy fix for zooming small steps but cant find it anywhere. I have asked on their forum.

As you know a few weeks ago I removed my Lumagen Pro as many here said it was deteriorating my madvr image. Lumagen had zoom steps we could pre set to 5% steps or higher. This worked perfectly from my ipad for 4x3 films that needed a small zoom and also for the very wide scope films like Ben Hur etc etc whereby a small zoomed away the wide grey bars and filled the top/bottom fixed masking. The 5% steps were just enough to zoom the image up to fit the motorised black masking of my 4x3 or scope image, if I ever needed it. I also use an Isco III lens...

After removing the Lumagen Pro I now cant zoom small steps sadly as the 25% zoom is too great from madvr...

Hopefully JR comes back to me with some good news...:confused:

[Asmodian]

Have you tried the "Aspect Ratio" crop option in JR?
https://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Customisable_Video_Playback

[70MM]

Yes I read that page today after looking for a zoom control. The crop doesn't seem to zoom it up quite enough, it helps but still not enough. Im going to look into that control more again tonight and see if I can get some more out of it someway. Thanks guys for you help...

[strumf666]

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/russian-company-releases-deuhd-to-remove-copy-protection-from-ultra-hd-blu-ray-discs.html

[steakhutzeee]

disable it or try low.Hope you talking about the right image, because you was talking about the second, the one without madvr. Btw I'll try when at home.

Inviato dal mio ASUS_Z00LD utilizzando Tapatalk

[DragonQ]

Ah right, I'm not using ARC, maybe that's why it works better for me.
Yeah I only use ARC for actually watching something on the TV itself and using my speakers. That basically means anyone that stays the night and doesn't know how to use the HTPC watching iPlayer. :p

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/russian-company-releases-deuhd-to-remove-copy-protection-from-ultra-hd-blu-ray-discs.html

Didn't take long, but then I don't remember BDs taking long to be cracked either. I've been ripping BDs with MakeMKV for years, the only blocker to UHD BDs is the drives that can read them being expensive. It'll probably be another year or so before there's a freeware program that can do it easily.

I suppose no-one was surprised that the industry decided to make it far easier to pirate UHD content than to actually buy it. Even UHD streaming is pretty locked down (Kaby Lake and Windows 10 needed, for example).

[austinminton]

Didn't take long

Yes it did, its been 18 months since the first uhd bluray was released. We are not even sure its done now.

but then I don't remember BDs taking long to be cracked either. I've been ripping BDs with MakeMKV for years, the only blocker to UHD BDs is the drives that can read them being expensive.

No it isnt. Its AACS 2.0 encryption that is the real bottleneck.

I suppose no-one was surprised that the industry decided to make it far easier to pirate UHD content than to actually buy it. Even UHD streaming is pretty locked down (Kaby Lake and Windows 10 needed, for example).

They just made it difficult to play on a PC, and the reason is clear from the release of this software.

[huhn]

Ive searched everywhere in JR for an easy fix for zooming small steps but cant find it anywhere. I have asked on their forum.

As you know a few weeks ago I removed my Lumagen Pro as many here said it was deteriorating my madvr image. Lumagen had zoom steps we could pre set to 5% steps or higher. This worked perfectly from my ipad for 4x3 films that needed a small zoom and also for the very wide scope films like Ben Hur etc etc whereby a small zoomed away the wide grey bars and filled the top/bottom fixed masking. The 5% steps were just enough to zoom the image up to fit the motorised black masking of my 4x3 or scope image, if I ever needed it. I also use an Isco III lens...

After removing the Lumagen Pro I now cant zoom small steps sadly as the 25% zoom is too great from madvr...

Hopefully JR comes back to me with some good news...:confused:
or you just use the mask options in madVR so madVR knows you are using a mask.

[dvd1]

because between bilinear the smallest of the scalers and the NGU the most powerful scaler you do not notice any difference. depends on the video card, the fullHD TV or what?
I am inexperienced, how to notice the difference?

[huhn]

it could be your TV but it is generally down to the eyes.

if you are talking about chroma scaling this is not visible in all images.

[steakhutzeee]

Same movie, first image with MPC-BE with Madvr, second with VLC without Madvr. With Madvr i can notice that the image is too much bright and less detailed as i can see, what i've to change?

With Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/61yp7gs8fv/

No Madvr -> https://postimg.org/image/7j4u97x81n/

You should download the images to see the difference.

I use: chroma u.= NGU Sharp, medium. / image d.=SSIM, 1D 100% anti r. relaxed, anti b, 100%. / image u.= NGU sharp, high luma doubling; the rest madvr decide. / No upscaling refinement. I'm on 1920*1080 FullHD.

Thanks!

Someone can help? I tried to get low the debanding option that an user suggested to me, but i think he was looking at the wrong image.

Btw, now, i've added descriptions as you can see.

[70MM]

or you just use the mask options in madVR so madVR knows you are using a mask.
The madvr mask options makes the image smaller, Im trying to make it larger...

[huhn]

i don't know how to explain it better do i really have to make screen?

by making the "image" smaller madVR will detect small boarders and is able to remove them properly it's not rocket science.

@steakhutzeee
so i repeat myself the madVR image is debanded strongly and the VLC has banding some blocking artifacts.

the main difference should be the madVR debanding filter.

[dvd1]

it could be your TV but it is generally down to the eyes.

if you are talking about chroma scaling this is not visible in all images.
I was talking about image upscaling.
the differences known only when I change the parameters in ipscaling rafiniment
and not how much I change the scaler algorithms

[el Filou]

That's probably because your 'refinement' settings are too strong and cancel or at least minimize the differences of quality between the upscalers.

[steakhutzeee]

i don't know how to explain it better do i really have to make screen?

by making the "image" smaller madVR will detect small boarders and is able to remove them properly it's not rocket science.

@steakhutzeee
so i repeat myself the madVR image is debanded strongly and the VLC has banding some blocking artifacts.

the main difference should be the madVR debanding filter.
I see no difference with/without that option enabled.

[dvd1]

when in upscaling rafiniment is all off and I use only the scalers not known differences or are minimal, which I inexperienced do not perceive.
how do I make real-time comparison?

[Asmodian]

If you do not notice a difference just use Jinc or something. There is no need to overthink it.

I compare by switching settings and re-watching shorter sections of different types of content.

[huhn]

I see no difference with/without that option enabled.

i test the debanding on the no madVr image and it get's closer to your madVR image but it is not the same.

are you using ffdshow or something?
are there numbers in the name like black 1600 or so?

[dvd1]

If you do not notice a difference just use Jinc or something. There is no need to overthink it.

I compare by switching settings and re-watching shorter sections of different types of content.
crhome up jnc
image dow jnc
image up jnc
up refirement off

in this way?

[ryrynz]

Try it. If you like it keep it.. Or not. Maybe learn something in the process.

[Q-the-STORM]

I've been gone for a few weeks, so I haven't read the last 30 pages or so, coming back with a new GTX 1080 ti.
HDR switching immediately worked, wonderful.

Now I'm trying my luck on getting a custom resolution to work, created a custom 2160p24 mode in the nvidia GUI (I couldn't create the custom mode in madVR, since 24Hz is listed as a standard mode and I couldn't override it, so I created the mode in nvidia's GUI) and then opened a 23.976fps video (over 30min, has audio).

Went to custom modes tab in madVR, the 24Hz mode is correctly being displayed as active and with "custom timings, not measured yet". Pressed the optimize button, got the message I'm supposed to get, clicked OK. So far so good.

Closed madVR options and started to play the video and watched it over 30min, paused and went back to custom modes tab. Still shows "custom timings, not measued yet".

What do I do?

Software:
Windows 10
most recent nvidia drivers
most recent madVR v0.92.4
MPC-HC 1.7.13, using internal LAV filters (DXVA2 copy-back)

Settings:
reduce banding: default: low; fade in/out: high

chroma up: NGU sharp, high
image up: luma doubling high; chroma high
no refinements

Automatic FSE enabled
Direct3D 11 enabled
smooth motion disabled
error diffusion option 1

Mediainfo of the video I was watching (watched it in fullscreen)

General
Unique ID : 215122300837375053130030932920801367987 (0xA1D70C4F8C7C9842A19BE576532317B3)
Complete name : Test.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 1.11 GiB
Duration : 35 min 56 s
Overall bit rate : 4 423 kb/s
Encoded date : UTC 2017-10-04 18:25:46
Writing application : mkvmerge v15.0.0 ('Duel with the Devil') 64-bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.5 + libmatroska v1.4.5

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, RefFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 35 min 55 s
Bit rate : 4 295 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.086
Stream size : 1.08 GiB (97%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No
Color range : Limited
Color primaries : BT.709
Transfer characteristics : BT.709
Matrix coefficients : BT.709

Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : A_AAC
Duration : 35 min 56 s
Bit rate : 126 kb/s
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 44.1 kHz
Frame rate : 43.066 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 32.3 MiB (3%)
Default : Yes
Forced : No

[hannes69]

...created a custom 2160p24 mode in the nvidia GUI...
...Still shows "custom timings, not measued yet"...
What do I do?...

madVR currently can optimize/measure a custom resolution only when created WITHIN madVR.

[Pat357]

Q-the-STORM : Why not create a new p23 mode in Madvr for 24000/1001 ?

[Q-the-STORM]

madVR currently can optimize/measure a custom resolution only when created WITHIN madVR.
Alright thanks.

Q-the-STORM : Why not create a new p23 mode in Madvr for 24000/1001 ?

Because I can't.

23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50, 59 and 60 Hz are being listed as "standard mode" and I can't edit them ("GPU driver rejected this mode, for unknown reasons.")

So what can I do now?

[Reclunk]

23, 24, 25, 29, 30, 50, 59 and 60 Hz are being listed as "standard mode" and I can't edit them ("GPU driver rejected this mode, for unknown reasons.")

So what can I do now?[/QUOTE]

You probably have custom resolutions in the Nvidia control panel that are overriding the MadVR ones. Delete the Nvidia ones, and then you can optimize in MadVR. I rolled back to v0.92.3 because 92.4 was causing issues, but YMMV

[jmonier]

Went to custom modes tab in madVR, the 24Hz mode is correctly being displayed as active and with "custom timings, not measured yet". Pressed the optimize button, got the message I'm supposed to get, clicked OK. So far so good.

Closed madVR options and started to play the video and watched it over 30min, paused and went back to custom modes tab. Still shows "custom timings, not measued yet".

What do I do?


This is a problem that I (and several others) have seen on 92.4 (even with modes created with madVR). I'm hoping that madshi will have time soon to comment on this.

[mzso]

Can I create a freeze report any other way than the hotkey?
It doesn't seem to work for ProgDVB. I can start madHcCtrl.exe and see ProgDVB there but there's not freeze report option. Just play/pause, stop and jump.

Update:

It seems like I could generate reports by disabling "use only if media player has keyboard focus". And you can set it for all hotkeys which makes it way worse.
IMO the requirement for this is a serious handicap to a freeze report feature. Otherwise it seems you can't (or at least unlikely to) generate a freeze report when the SW using madVR is actually frozen, only when it's not. Which is a ironic...

I added them to the rest: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByfdfPvnoDuzRUpvTmg4REhyTG8

[steakhutzeee]

i test the debanding on the no madVr image and it get's closer to your madVR image but it is not the same.

are you using ffdshow or something?
are there numbers in the name like black 1600 or so?

I use madvr+lav filters.

What about these numbers? Where i find them?

Thanks!

[huhn]

madVR image can be alternated by the "file name" it is very unlikely this is done by accident but it happen before.

the filter list may help. with mpc-hc you can easily copy them under filter and post them here.

can you make a sample of the screen? so i can try to reproduce the issue.

and does this happen with madVR at defaults settings (you can back up your settings.bin to save your current settings).

[steakhutzeee]

madVR image can be alternated by the "file name" it is very unlikely this is done by accident but it happen before.

the filter list may help. with mpc-hc you can easily copy them under filter and post them here.

can you make a sample of the screen? so i can try to reproduce the issue.

and does this happen with madVR at defaults settings (you can back up your settings.bin to save your current settings).

Well, there are numbers in the title, now i changed and deleted them just to be sure.

My filters: https://postimg.org/image/7hyhzkn2xn/

As i can see, there is no super brightness with default settings, so there is some problem in my settings... here they are: http://www95.zippyshare.com/v/Sf5ZlMlX/file.html Btw, i'm trying and trying and now i barely see a difference :P Maybe you can see it. I'm thinking, i tried to reset madvr settings after i edited the name file... maybe the problem was really there? :O

Here is the sample, hope it works well and there is no problems with link i posted: http://www36.zippyshare.com/v/lg0Ao7x0/file.html

Thanks!