BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[mhammer]

Just wondering but has anyone tried using MKV as the intermediate to see if this does anything about the 24p problem the panasonics have

Tried it, but doesn´t work. Same 24p problem as before.

[Nkotok]

What is the difference between AVCHD and Blu-ray output options? I see AVCHD also has BDMV folder juts like Blu-ray.
Does it matter which one I burn on a BD25 for a backup of blu-ray movie only to play on a stand alone?

[jdobbs]

If you do a movie-only burn it will be in AVCHD format -- no matter what you select. If you are doing a full-backup, it will be in blu-ray format -- no matter what you select.

The only option is "Stricter AVCHD for Movie-Only" -- which will clear certain directories for compatibility with inconsistent implementations in standalone players.

The BDMV folder is present on both. AVCHD is a subset of blu-ray (for example, it doesn't support java for menus) that was designed mainly for video cameras. But since it is a high-def standard, it is a good way to fit HD video on smaller (DVD-5/DVD-9) discs.

[Nkotok]

If you do a movie-only burn it will be in AVCHD format -- no matter what you select. If you are doing a full-backup, it will be in blu-ray format -- no matter what you select.

The only option is " " -- which will clear certain directories for compatibility with inconsistent implementations in standalone players.

The BDMV folder is present on both. AVCHD is a subset of blu-ray (for example, it doesn't support java for menus) that was designed mainly for video cameras. But since it is a high-def standard, it is a good way to fit HD video on smaller (DVD-5/DVD-9) discs.

S I am planning to do movie only backups and will check "Stricter AVCHD for Movie-Only" to try to play the result in 24P on Panny.
So with AVCHD output and certain directories cleared, will I still have the same blu-ray and pq and sq will not suffer, right?


Basically, what I would like to know is if the latest switch from blu-ray to AVCHD output for movie only will have any impact on the playability the reencode burnt of a BD25?

[GaPony]

There shouldn't be any degradation in PQ or SQ, but playability is much more about the standalone player than the output from BD-Rebuilder. All you can do is test it and see what needs to be done for compatibility with your player. I wish there was some standard among players, like with copying DVDs, but aparently thats not an important thing with Blu-Ray manufactures.

[Nkotok]

There shouldn't be any degradation in PQ or SQ, but playability is much more about the standalone player than the output from BD-Rebuilder. All you can do is test it and see what needs to be done for compatibility with your player. I wish there was some standard among players, like with copying DVDs, but aparently thats not an important thing with Blu-Ray manufactures.


Well, with such a quick change from blu-ray to mandatory AVCHD for movie only encodes in BDRB, I would think there is no difference between the two or a very minimal one that has no impact on playability of BD25s on stand alone players. Otherwise why would not the author leave both options available? Why not give a choice (since blu-ray output option was there already) but try to give one and take one away approach?

[turbojet]

@tekmobile
It seems to have reassembled properly, so I've changed the latest version to use MKV as the default. We'll see if any other bug reports surface...

Thanks for the new version, I'm currently testing out the changes.

Just done two copies of Tenacious D that was locking up the player on encode quality 5 one using MKV and one .264

Results
.264: Same as always locked up the player and reports 0 Mbps
MKV: Sucess plays perfect and shows correct bitrate

I think by using MKV as the intermediate like you have on the latest release will be a good thing and may also fix many of the playback problems on the likes of the panasonics

That's good to hear mkv intermediate fixed something unexpected.

It starts out of sync and continues throughout the movie, staying with a consistent delay. ( same amount from beginning to end)

If you load the m2ts in tsmuxer do the audio streams have a delay?

Tried it, but doesn´t work. Same 24p problem as before.

Can you try burning the 6 isos in this pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yiowy2yukjw) and report if any work with 24p enabled and if so which ones?

Well, with such a quick change from blu-ray to mandatory AVCHD for movie only encodes in BDRB, I would think there is no difference between the two or a very minimal one that has no impact on playability of BD25s on stand alone players. Otherwise why would not the author leave both options available? Why not give a choice (since blu-ray output option was there already) but try to give one and take one away approach?

On BD25 playback there's only been one difference found between --bluray and --avchd modes of TSmuxer. That is VC-1 on panasonic players need --bluray or they won't play, as BD-RB doesn't output VC-1 it's a non-issue. Other than that --avchd has been much more tested, it's what RipBot264 has always output and BD-RB has output in all versions except v0.20.06 - v0.21.01. The only change that has any significance in playability between the 2 outputs is in the index.bdmv file.

Here's a summary of differences in playback of using strict AVCHD or not from testing with latest firmware/software versions.

no strict AVCHD: Playback in all standalones except Samsung BD-P1600. Playback in PowerDVD from ISO/DVD/BD. WinDVD is only from DVD/BD. Playback in TMT3 from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD.

strict AVCHD: Playback in all standalones except Denon's and Phillips. Good possibility of some standalones only playing AC3/LPCM though no reports yet. Playback in PowerDVD from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD but only plays AC3/LPCM audio. Playback with winDVD from DVD/BD except AC3/LPCM only. Playback in TMT3 from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD with all audio supported.

full backup: BD playback in all standalones except Sharp. DVD playback in Sony, some Samsung, some Denon. PowerDVD playback from ISO/DVD/BD. TMT3/WinDVD playback from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD.

Hopefully this is enough info to draw your conclusion.

[Nkotok]

Here's a summary of differences in playback of using strict AVCHD or not from testing with latest firmware/software versions.

no strict AVCHD: Playback in all standalones except Samsung BD-P1600. Playback in PowerDVD from ISO/DVD/BD. WinDVD is only from DVD/BD. Playback in TMT3 from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD.

strict AVCHD: Playback in all standalones except Denon's and Phillips. Playback in PowerDVD from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD but only plays AC3/LPCM audio. Playback with winDVD from DVD/BD except AC3/LPCM only. Playback in TMT3 from HDD/ISO/DVD/BD with all audio supported.

Hopefully this is enough info to draw your conclusion.

Thanks. How about 24P playback? Did you mean all this with 24P enabled?

[turbojet]

Thanks. How about 24P playback? Did you mean all this with 24P enabled?

No problem. Nope 24p seems to work on most players but not on others. I have an idea of how to fix it but need people who have players that don't play video with 24p to test that pack I linked to in previous post.

[Nkotok]

No problem. Nope 24p seems to work on most players but not on others. I have an idea of how to fix it but need people who have players that don't play video with 24p to test that pack I linked to in previous post.


I see. That would be good.

I still have not tried to use BD Rb with strict AVCHD checked and play the result on my Pan. BD30 and see if it will work in 24P.
Until now I never checked strict AVCHD and was able to play only with 24p disabled.

[turbojet]

I see. That would be good.

I still have not tried to use BD Rb with strict AVCHD checked and play the result on my Pan. BD30 and see if it will work in 24P.
Until now I never checked strict AVCHD and was able to play only with 24p disabled.

Strange, I've never had an issue playing with 24p enabled on a USA Panasonic BD30 from DVD with mkv intermediate in BD-RB and RipBot264 output. Anyhow that pack I referred to I just updated if you want to try it out.

Can you try burning the 6 isos in this pack (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?yiowy2yukjw) and report if any work with 24p enabled and if so which ones?

[Nkotok]

Strange, I've never had an issue playing with 24p enabled on a USA Panasonic BD30 from DVD with mkv intermediate in BD-RB and RipBot264 output.

That is strange. Could it be because your was a DVD-r (not BD-r), because it was in mkv, or maybe because of FW of the player? Really would be nice to find why.

(btw I tried Ripbot a couple of times and it played on my Panny in 24p no problem (Ripbot took much longer though than BD-RB, like 30 hours for one movie on 2-pass for a BD25).

[turbojet]

That is strange. Could it be because your was a DVD-r (not BD-r), because it was in mkv, or maybe because of FW of the player? Really would be nice to find why.

(btw I tried Ripbot a couple of times and it played on my Panny in 24p no problem (Ripbot took much longer though than BD-RB, like 30 hours for one movie on 2-pass for a BD25).

I have no idea, results from that pack might shine some light on the matter.

[drmih]

I haven't spent any time on it recently. I know of no way to do it until I put in some code to do so. I guess you could strip it, but I don't think it would work when remuxed.

I took a Universal title with PiP (Wanted) I had previously had problems with (audio wouldn't play on a Sony standalone) and used TSMuxer to take the main movie m2ts file and recreate it with the DTS-HD XLL converted to DTS. I then replaced the file and encoded using bd-rb but selected to keep the dts. I have just copied the bd-9 file structure to a re-writable bd-re and it plays on the sony with audio present.

I'm now burning it to a bd-9 to see if it's fine. If it is okay, the question is whether it was the process of first downgrading the DTS-HD XLL to DTS, or as simple as using the don't convert DTS to AC3 in bd-rb. However I wonder what bd-rb does if it sees DTS-HD XLL and the don't convert DTS to AC3 flag?

**TOTAL RED HERRING - the file structure which plays with sound on a bd-25 still has the audio missing when burnt to a bd-9 - anyone figure out the logic there?

[mhammer]

Can you try burning the 6 isos in this pack and report if any work with 24p enabled and if so which ones?

Treid a few:

mkv_aud-nalhrd, 264, mkv and 264_aud-nalhrd.

They work all with 24p, but i think we should try this with audio muxed...

[turbojet]

Treid a few:

mkv_aud-nalhrd, 264, mkv and 264_aud-nalhrd.

They work all with 24p, but i think we should try this with audio muxed...

Thanks for testing, hopefully audio will change the results. I've uploaded a pack with dts audio (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?roq0gmmktre).

A little clarification on the isos:
mkv = BD-RB default output in current version
264 = BD-RB default output in older versions
264_aud_nalhrd = RipBot264 default output

The rest are variations that aren't used in any programs as far as I know.

[mhammer]

Thanks for testing, hopefully audio will change the results. I've uploaded a pack with dts audio (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?roq0gmmktre).

A little clarification on the isos:
mkv = BD-RB default output in current version
264 = BD-RB default output in older versions
264_aud_nalhrd = RipBot264 default output

The rest are variations that aren't used in any programs as far as I know.

I only tried the 264 file, but this works also. Should we use a real short movie clip?

Btw, i tried Ripbot with the exact Bd-rb h264 settings (Custom Profile in Ripbot) and this works too.

Very strange...

[tekmobile]

Btw, i tried Ripbot with the exact Bd-rb h264 settings (Custom Profile in Ripbot) and this works too.

Very strange...

Don't RipBot use a custom version of x264 maybe its that.

Not sure if it would work or has been tried but what about if you copied and used the version of x264 from RipBot to the BD-RB tools folder and tried that.

[Capsbackup]

@turbojet;
If you load the m2ts in tsmuxer do the audio streams have a delay?

This was a good find; yes TSMuxer does show a 83ms delay for all audio tracks. I do not see where BD-RB takes this delay into account. See MUX_00000.meta below:

MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --vbr --auto-chapters=5 --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\VID_00000.AVS.264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4352.AC3", lang=eng
A_AC3, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4353.AC3", lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4608.sup", fps=23.976, lang=jpn
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4609.sup", fps=23.976, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4610.sup", fps=23.976, lang=fra

Could this be something for jdobbs to look into? 83ms is not much of a delay, and it does appear to be more than that on play back.
However, it does appear that the reencoded BD-RB file has audio sync, as does the original, when played back with MPC. Only after burning to Sony BD-RE and played back on my Sony BDP-BX1 is there a noticeable audio delay.
I backed up The Dark Knight last night with the new BD-RBV02201, and burned it to a BD-RE with the same burner and the audio is perfect. So, I don't know what my issue is.

[turbojet]

I only tried the 264 file, but this works also. Should we use a real short movie clip?

Btw, i tried Ripbot with the exact Bd-rb h264 settings (Custom Profile in Ripbot) and this works too.

Very strange...

Interesting. The size of the stream must have something to do with it.

mhammer: could you perform a little test by downloading a patched x264 build and use this command like this on a main movie avs from BD-RB workfiles x264.exe --crf 30 --ref 1 --me dia --subme 1 --partitions none --threads auto --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "<output.mkv>" "<input>" --nal-hrd
<input> = avs path\file
<output.mkv> = path to output mkv

Then grab tsmuxer 1.10.6, drag the new mkv you created plus dts or ac3 file from BD-RB workfiles into tsmuxergui. Tick avchd output, choose output path and burn the output to a DVD and try?

It may sound like a lot but it's fairly simple, just a lot of words to describe it. The x264 encode won't look very good but it will finish fairly quick.

Don't RipBot use a custom version of x264 maybe its that.

Not sure if it would work or has been tried but what about if you copied and used the version of x264 from RipBot to the BD-RB tools folder and tried that.

Yes. RipBot264 uses patched x264 builds (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=130364) with trahald's x264_hrd_pulldown.13_interlace.diff, it uses these command line parameters from the patch when avchd compatibilty is checked: --aud --nalhrd and outputs a .264 file. Maybe jdobbs could add an experimental option that adds --aud --nal-hrd and outputs .264 with a patched x264 build for testing on players that are having issues with 24p. If it works well and no other players are affected maybe this should be the default or only type of output.

After some testing --aud has no effect with mkv output. it changes .264 output
--nal-hrd affects mkv\264 files differently then tsmuxer's insert nal-hrd packets

@turbojet;


This was a good find; yes TSMuxer does show a 83ms delay for all audio tracks. I do not see where BD-RB takes this delay into account. See MUX_00000.meta below:

MUXOPT --no-pcr-on-video-pid --new-audio-pes --blu-ray --vbr --auto-chapters=5 --vbv-len=500
V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\VID_00000.AVS.264", fps=23.976, insertSEI, contSPS
A_AC3, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4352.AC3", lang=eng
A_AC3, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4353.AC3", lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4608.sup", fps=23.976, lang=jpn
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4609.sup", fps=23.976, lang=eng
S_HDMV/PGS, "D:\BATMAN_BEGINS BDRB\WORKFILES\00000.track_4610.sup", fps=23.976, lang=fra

Could this be something for jdobbs to look into? 83ms is not much of a delay, and it does appear to be more than that on play back.
However, it does appear that the reencoded BD-RB file has audio sync, as does the original, when played back with MPC. Only after burning to Sony BD-RE and played back on my Sony BDP-BX1 is there a noticeable audio delay.
I backed up The Dark Knight last night with the new BD-RBV02201, and burned it to a BD-RE with the same burner and the audio is perfect. So, I don't know what my issue is.

I'm not sure if the delay is stored within the stream or in the clpi file but it could be a place for jdobbs to start looking.

[GaPony]

I took a Universal title with PiP (Wanted) I had previously had problems with (audio wouldn't play on a Sony standalone) and used TSMuxer to take the main movie m2ts file and recreate it with the DTS-HD XLL converted to DTS. I then replaced the file and encoded using bd-rb but selected to keep the dts. I have just copied the bd-9 file structure to a re-writable bd-re and it plays on the sony with audio present.

I'm now burning it to a bd-9 to see if it's fine. If it is okay, the question is whether it was the process of first downgrading the DTS-HD XLL to DTS, or as simple as using the don't convert DTS to AC3 in bd-rb. However I wonder what bd-rb does if it sees DTS-HD XLL and the don't convert DTS to AC3 flag?

**TOTAL RED HERRING - the file structure which plays with sound on a bd-25 still has the audio missing when burnt to a bd-9 - anyone figure out the logic there?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I was under the impression you couldn't keep the DTS-HD with a BD9 copy.

[drmih]

Maybe I'm missing something, but I was under the impression you couldn't keep the DTS-HD with a BD9 copy.

You can't but one possible issue was in converting DTS-HD XLL to AC3 something went wrong so I was trying to turn it into normal DTS. However, it turns out to be something as simple as the Sony handles the same structure differently depending on whether it's on a bd-9 or bd-re.

[GaPony]

You can't but one possible issue was in converting DTS-HD XLL to AC3 something went wrong so I was trying to turn it into normal DTS. However, it turns out to be something as simple as the Sony handles the same structure differently depending on whether it's on a bd-9 or bd-re.

I've done tons of these movies... In fact I just did "Wanted" (Movie Only to BD-9) and the DTS-HD audio converted to AC3 without any problem and plays beautifully on my PS3 and Sony BDP-S550 player.

I apologize if I'm missing the point you're making.

[drmih]

Your missing the fact that no Full Backups to bd-9 of Universal titles with PiP allow the audio to be selected on Sonys.

Doing Movie only makes the PiP issue irrelevant.

[turbojet]

Your missing the fact that no Full Backups to bd-9 of Universal titles with PiP allow the audio to be selected on Sonys.

Doing Movie only makes the PiP issue irrelevant.

If you use goBD or AVCHD patcher on the index.bdmv does it have any effect?

[drmih]

I haven't tried as I wasn't aware that they were for full backups. These discs do play fine on a pc, and it would appear it is nothing to do with the structure but whether the sony sees a bd-9 or bd-25 - taking this into account would goBD or AVCHD patcher make any difference?

I don't think that I have got any Universal titles to work as full backup to bd-9 yet on a sony.

[turbojet]

It might, I've seen stranger things happen with BD5/9 playback. IIWY I'd try it with DVD5 RW though. Try goBD first and if it doesn't help try AVCHD patcher they do a little different things.

[GaPony]

Your missing the fact that no Full Backups to bd-9 of Universal titles with PiP allow the audio to be selected on Sonys.

Doing Movie only makes the PiP issue irrelevant.

That was what I was trying to get to.

Its just a sad fact that most standalone players don't recognize Blu-Ray on DVD. The Sony's are better than most, but still not 100% compatible with Full Movies onto DVD (BD5 or BD9). AVCHD for a movie only copy is seen differently, and poses very little problem for a growing list of players.

The good news is that BD-R 25 media can be found for as little as $3.20 per disc (25 pack RiData @ newegg).

[mhammer]

Interesting. The size of the stream must have something to do with it.

mhammer: could you perform a little test by downloading a patched x264 build and use this command like this on a main movie avs from BD-RB workfiles x264.exe --crf 30 --ref 1 --me dia --subme 1 --partitions none --threads auto --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "<output.mkv>" "<input>" --nal-hrd
<input> = avs path\file
<output.mkv> = path to output mkv

Then grab tsmuxer 1.10.6, drag the new mkv you created plus dts or ac3 file from BD-RB workfiles into tsmuxergui. Tick avchd output, choose output path and burn the output to a DVD and try?

It may sound like a lot but it's fairly simple, just a lot of words to describe it. The x264 encode won't look very good but it will finish fairly quick.




Did the test, but doesn´t work. Same probs with 24p as with BD-RB output.

Did my testings with a bd-rw 25 and tsmuxer avc and blu-ray output.
I noticed that Ripbot does a complete demux and creates a mkv with the videostream. Bd-RB use the original m2ts stream for video-encodeing, maybe this is were we get probs.

[jdobbs]

Did the test, but doesn´t work. Same probs with 24p as with BD-RB output.

Did my testings with a bd-rw 25 and tsmuxer avc and blu-ray output.
I noticed that Ripbot does a complete demux and creates a mkv with the videostream. Bd-RB use the original m2ts stream for video-encodeing, maybe this is were we get probs. It certainly shouldn't, since the source of the AVS file should be invisible to the encoder... but stranger things have happened I guess.

Can you explain exactly what the "24p problem" really is? No playback at all?

[mhammer]

It certainly shouldn't, since the source of the AVS file should be invisible to the encoder... but stranger things have happened I guess.

Can you explain exactly what the "24p problem" really is? No playback at all?

The 24p problem is that rips done with BD-RB will not work in 24p mode on Panasonic players while Ripbot encodes work (even with same x264 settings as BD-RB).

Turbojet and i did some testing to find a working solution.

[turbojet]

Did the test, but doesn´t work. Same probs with 24p as with BD-RB output.

Did my testings with a bd-rw 25 and tsmuxer avc and blu-ray output.
I noticed that Ripbot does a complete demux and creates a mkv with the videostream. Bd-RB use the original m2ts stream for video-encodeing, maybe this is were we get probs.

A few things that could be tried if you haven't already, output to 264 and add --aud so:

x264.exe --crf 30 --ref 1 --me dia --subme 1 --partitions none --threads auto --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim --output "<output.264>" "<input>" --nal-hrd

another thing you could try is using the avs as video input, demuxed audio as audio input in ripbot264 and see if the stream works with 24p. Another thing that RipBot264 uses that BD-RB doesn't is long GOP's aka --keyint 250 --min keyint 25 but that's on the BD-RB request list.

Jdobbs: all the changes in the changelog look good and even the undocumented sub fix except with strict AVCHD output can it delete the CERTIFICATE folder in the next version?

Also out of curiosity do you have any plans on what you plan to tackle next? Two big topics that seem to affect every encode are sizing and encoder related things (keep movie but encode extras, long gop, 1 pass crf using quality settings set, display x264 eta, x64 x264 (lower priority?))

[jdobbs]

However I wonder what bd-rb does if it sees DTS-HD XLL and the don't convert DTS to AC3 flag? It uses the down-to-dts flag in TSMUXER and uses the output directly in the remux.

[jdobbs]

Jdobbs: all the changes in the changelog look good and even the undocumented sub fix except with strict AVCHD output can it delete the CERTIFICATE folder in the next version? Yes. In fact I had added the code to remove it, and then after the fact realized that I was looking for "\BDMV\CERTIFICATE" instead of "\CERTIFICATE'... duh. Not going to find a lot of those. I've fixed it.

Also out of curiosity do you have any plans on what you plan to tackle next? Two big topics that seem to affect every encode are sizing and encoder related things (keep movie but encode extras, long gop, 1 pass crf using quality settings set, display x264 eta, x64 x264 (lower priority?)) I'll probably do a little work on the sizing this weekend. I'm going to create a group of different kinds of audio with varying rates and see what individual overhead percentages I get. Currently I've been using a single adjustment factor for the entire stream, and I think that's the root of the inaccuracy. It seems to be amplified by the inclusion of HD audio now.

Don't know what you mean by "long gop" -- BD has a limited frequency of key frames, even though my Sony seems to not care. One pass CRF with prediction is actually already written, but it was so inaccurate I disabled it. I'll get back to that soon enough.

[turbojet]

Yes. In fact I had added the code to remove it, and then after the fact realized that I was looking for "\BDMV\CERTIFICATE" instead of "\CERTIFICATE'... duh. Not going to find a lot of those. I've fixed it.

I'm not sure it will have any effect on anything but probably safer to remove it.

I'll probably do a little work on the sizing this weekend. I'm going to create a group of different kinds of audio with varying rates and see what individual overhead percentages I get. Currently I've been using a single adjustment factor for the entire stream, and I think that's the root of the inaccuracy. It seems to be amplified by the inclusion of HD audio now.

Oh ok did you get RipBot264's calculation and can make sense of it? If so that's have the job done, although mutliple audio streams and HD audio which I've heard is inconsistent because of vbr.

Don't know what you mean by "long gop" -- BD has a limited frequency of key frames, even though my Sony seems to not care. One pass CRF with prediction is actually already written, but it was so inaccurate I disabled it. I'll get back to that soon enough.

Long GOP meaning 10 second max distance between keyframes as opposed to the current 1 second. This can really improve the effeciency without affecting the playability, at least none have been reported. However it could skew chapter points quite a bit but there is a solution for that too, x264's --qp-file. I posted 2 clips here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=147481) that are very affected by the short gop's, while it's kind of uncommon it goes to show how detremental the short GOP's can be.

1 pass crf o the whole movie? I forgot about that one but I remember seeing it discussed somewhere but that sounds good as well. But what I meant by the 1 pass CRF using the quality settings was for extras. For example there would be under mode menu a '1 pass encode for extras' that uses QUICK_CRF set and the quality options set, then a sub option be 'quicker encode' to use what quicker encodes does now. Also with crf there is no need for the current --pass --stats x264 calls, it writes a stats that isn't used which may hurt performance a little bit.

[jdobbs]

Long GOP meaning 10 second max distance between keyframes as opposed to the current 1 second. This can really improve the effeciency without affecting the playability, at least none have been reported. If will also violate the BD standard. Can't do it.

Also with crf there is no need for the current --pass --stats x264 calls, it writes a stats that isn't used which may hurt performance a little bit.The pass/stats info is there for a reason. The performance impact is virtually nonexistent... but if you keep the stats, you can use them to do a second pass and hit the mark exactly when you experience an oversize (common in CRF encodes).

[turbojet]

It's no more of a violation then 30p and that's been in since day one, but it's ok, nevermind.

[jdobbs]

It's no more of a violation then 30p and that's been in since day one, but it's ok, nevermind. A standard is a standard. Just because it works for one person doesn't mean it won't fail for 100 others. Sorry, but I'm married to that one.

[turbojet]

What if it's the thing that allows RipBot264 encodes to play with 24p enabled?

It is a good possibility but need to wait on tests. Long gop's have been well tested with RipBot264 over the past year or so without any issues, so it's nothing new. Why not an ini only setting for us power users?

[jdobbs]

What if it's the thing that allows RipBot264 encodes to play with 24p enabled?

It is a good possibility but need to wait on tests. Long gop's have been well tested with RipBot264 over the past year or so without any issues, so it's nothing new. Why not an ini only setting for us power users? Then that's an issue for Panasonic to correct. Which in truth is probably something that needs to be done either way.

Long GOPs aren't Blu-Ray -- they are something else, no matter how well tested they are. You certainly won't find them on commercial BDs (if so, I'd be surprised), and a decent authoring package shouldn't accept them. I think its a bad idea.

[turbojet]

Than that's an issue for Panasonic to correct. Which in truth is probably a fact either way.

True but it's not something we can control.

Long GOPs aren't Blu-Ray -- they are something else, no matter how well tested they are. You certainly won't find them on commercial BDs, and a decent authoring package won't accept them. Bad idea.

True again but nor will you find 30p or non-sliced H.264 on retail BD and programs like scenarist don't allow either.

30p I think is only detrimental to the video stream but people will have their own opinions on that one. As some don't notice the non-fluid motion achieved by deinterlacing.

Sliced H.264 x264 doesn't support so nothing can be done about that, I'm not sure what it is but I've read it can hurt efficiency.

Long GOP can do nothing but benefit the video stream as long as the encoder makes the right decision every time, which x264 seems to do. In some cases in a huge way, those 2 clips I linked to are good examples of this.

While I'd like to see an AVCHD/BD standard that has to be followed so we know what has to be done, it doesn't exist. In it's current state almost everything BD-RB does breaks the standard. A few examples: You shouldn't be able to play anything but AC3/LPCM AVCHD from DVD, full backups in their current state should only play from BD, in order to play from DVD they'd need their menu commands changed to be like that of AVCHD menus which will lose some advanced functionality, which may be a possibility some day, who knows.

[drmih]

It might, I've seen stranger things happen with BD5/9 playback. IIWY I'd try it with DVD5 RW though. Try goBD first and if it doesn't help try AVCHD patcher they do a little different things.

OK neither of the options made any difference, so whatever is upsetting the Sony's on full backups on Universal titles burnt to a bd-9 is still unknown.

Of the discs I have done, when played on a ps3 the two which were patched tried to play and then errored. The bd-9 one appeared as a data disc but when the main movie stream was played it did have the audio okay, so that could handle the audio if not the menus.

[turbojet]

OK neither of the options made any difference, so whatever is upsetting the Sony's on full backups on Universal titles burnt to a bd-9 is still unknown.

Of the discs I have done, when played on a ps3 the two which were patched tried to play and then errored. The bd-9 one appeared as a data disc but when the main movie stream was played it did have the audio okay, so that could handle the audio if not the menus.

Can you upload the bdmv files, CLIPINF and PLAYLIST directories?

Also are both video streams being kept in the output?

[drmih]

Can you upload the bdmv files, CLIPINF and PLAYLIST directories?

Also are both video streams being kept in the output?

These are from the first attempt at a bd-9 full disc with ac3 sound.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/zxomlj

This plays fine on a pc and the movie stream 0220.m2ts is okay on a ps3. On a Sony 550 the audio isn't available on the movie and the display information shows no audio and the audio button has no effect. If the files are burnt to a bd-25 then that plays fine.

[turbojet]

Can you try this (http://www.sendspace.com/file/avcva0)

[drmih]

Thanks - it'll be tomorrow now as I'm off to bed!

[Capsbackup]

I have no trouble playing BD-RB movie only backups burned to BD-5 with 24p on my Sony BDP-BX1. So I have to agree with jdobbs that this does seem to be an issue that Panasonic needs to correct. At some point, a standard has to be accepted. I don't believe jdobbs should have to spend so much time trying to make adjustments for a mfg.'s player to allow play back of an AVCHD movie only to DVD media. I commend him for trying! If BD-25 works for these players, then that may be the solution. If the goal is to be able to make backups to BD-5 or BD-9, then a more compliant player should be mandatory. Buyer be ware! Test your discs before making a purchase. :devil:
We all know you have to meet certain cpu, video card, etc.. requirements just to play back Blueray discs on a computer, so we have to be as prudent with our standalones as well! :)
If RipBot works, why not just use that program? :p

[turbojet]

mhammer: Could you try muxing an audio track with these 2 video streams (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?gjzkgyzujjn)?

It's the last things I can think of as differences between RipBot264 and BD-RB output.

[drmih]

Can you try this (http://www.sendspace.com/file/avcva0)

That just hangs the player when you try and select the main movie.

[wiggle]

Yesterday I was encoding Ghost Town. I stripped all other languages other than English to maintain the best bitrate. Original size: 27,4 GB.
After the encode was down I checked the new size, and it was 21,4 GB. Quite a waste of space, I ended up re-adding the stripped languages, as I had space left anyway.
I checked the log, and noticed the target rate was exactly 25.000. I browsed through some x264 settings, and came up that this probably is because of a max_rate setting, set to 25000?
I'ld really like it to be possible to change this setting, whether it is in the program or in the config file. Thanks in advance.