BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[mmick]

Hi guys, first of all... THANKS!

I have a few issues though:

Hardware:
- Lenovo U430 i5 U4200 (Intel 4400 GPU + Nvidia 730M GPU) + 8Gb RAM + Windows 8.1 64-bit fully updated

Goal:
- using a 3D Blu-Ray image on hdd, make a 3D .mkv or .m2ts backup (main movie only), under 5 Gb file.

How:
- settings > encoder > high quality + CRF 24
- settings > setup > (all default) + I turn ON "DTS to AC3" + I turn on "enable SBS 3D Movie-only output"
- Mode > Movie-only output

Issues:
1) whenever I use CRF the movie does NOT finish encoding (if I disable CRF, and let everything as default, the encoding works!) and stays forever doing this:

" - Input BD size: 25,09 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:38:51.967]
- Target BD size: 3,91 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
- Quality: High Quality (Default), CRF
- 3D conversion mode enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: FRIMSource
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640
- Resuming from previously started job.
[12:49:38] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [12:49:38] Processing: VID_00013 (1 of 2)
- [12:49:38] Reencoding video [VID_00013]
- Analyzing 24,94 17,47 23,50 23,04 [23,04]"

2) it says "Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640" but I said to convert to AC3 (I did not test if the result file has it or not on AC3 as it did not finish"

3) on both cases (CRF on or off) x264 does process BUT ALWAYS use just 25 - 50% of my CPU (and my CPU Fan doesn´t even start working ...). To compare, If I do some encoding with dvdfab it uses 100% of the CPU and the fan becomes noisy.

4) I also have issues using "Alternate Movie-Only output": I created a copy from "MKV, Full-SBS, Audio intact" and changed audio to AC3 naming it "MKV, Full-SBS, AC3 Audio". Though it gets stuck...

5) Question: If I set "Alternate Movie-Only output" as "MKV, Full-SBS, AC3 Audio", and on Settings > setup > "DTS to AC3" OFF (which means, let DTS stay), what prevails??? The setting on "Alternate Movie-Only output" (AC3 Audio) or under Settings (stay DTS)

6) about the GUI: for people who wish 3D output, it is not simple to understand A) If the source was detected as 3D (mine just says AVC stream and though it is 3D and will be a 3D output); B) which are the options to render a 3D output, and which possibilities are given as "MVC" or "SBS" or "half SBS"?

[jdobbs]

@mmick

The "DTS to AC3" setting has no effect on ALTERNATE output. Audio characteristics for ALTERNATE output is defined in the preset. Also, the decoding speed is going to be limited by the required side-by-side decoding/frame serving, so it isn't a surprise that your CPU isn't being fully utilized.

When you created the preset entry for "MKV, Full-SBS, AC3 Audio" -- did you set a bitrate for the AC3?

I'm running a job now as a test...

[mmick]

Thanks for answering.


decoding speed is going to be limited by the required side-by-side decoding/frame serving, so it isn't a surprise that your CPU isn't being fully utilized.

When I use CRF, the x264 process uses 25% of my CPU, the other 75% are.... idle! No decoding or other process...

When I let everything in Auto, the x264 process uses 45-50% of my CPU, the other 50% are in idle! No decoding or other process...

http://cdn.imghack.se/images/ed5784277fb3e1571d02ce39b13c6599.jpg

Isn´t that strange that the cpu is not (overall) being fully used?

[jdobbs]

Thanks for answering.



When I use CRF, the x264 process uses 25% of my CPU, the other 75% are.... idle! No decoding or other process...

When I let everything in Auto, the x264 process uses 45-50% of my CPU, the other 50% are in idle! No decoding or other process...

http://cdn.imghack.se/images/ed5784277fb3e1571d02ce39b13c6599.jpg

Isn´t that strange that the cpu is not (overall) being fully used?That's because the decoding/frame serving process isn't multiprocessor efficient and is also more I/O bound.

When you are doing normal (non-3D) encoding you can use all your speed by implementing the MULTIPROCESS hidden setting (see HIDDENOPTS.TXT) but it doesn't work with 3D. MULTIPROCESS divides the source into multiple parts and uses more than one X264 instance in order to use more CPU time. You should probably set it to 3 or 4 for your CPU.

[mmick]

That's because the decoding/frame serving process isn't multiprocessor efficient and is also more I/O bound.

By I/O you mean HDD speed? I have an Samsung 840 PRO 256 GB SSD so it should be OK ...

What I find strange are the differences with CRF: instead 50% CPU use, only 25% with the same task, and of course it doesn't finish ...

I tried several times with a couple of 3D movies more, and the same thing: with CRF on, it does not finish the encode, and always around 25% CPU use. On Auto it finishes the encode and around 50% of CPU use. The problem is that the advantage of CRF (speed with predictable quality) cannot be enjoyed.

[jdobbs]

By I/O you mean HDD speed? I have an Samsung 840 PRO 256 GB SSD so it should be OK ...

What I find strange are the differences with CRF: instead 50% CPU use, only 25% with the same task, and of course it doesn't finish ...

I tried several times with a couple of 3D movies more, and the same thing: with CRF on, it does not finish the encode, and always around 25% CPU use. On Auto it finishes the encode and around 50% of CPU use. The problem is that the advantage of CRF (speed with predictable quality) cannot be enjoyed.The fastest HDD or SSD on the planet is still incredibly slow when you are comparing it to CPU speeds. But the limiting factor for what you are seeing is the fact that the reliable version of AVISYNTH isn't multithreaded. I also doubt that the FRIMSource() decoder is multithreaded. So decoding/frame serving is going to limit your CPU use when doing 3D. It's a fact you have to live with.

I tested the ALTERNATE output with CRF and it works fine:[06/30/14] BD Rebuilder v0.47.07 (beta)
[18:06:49] Source: MARVELS_THE_AVENGERS_3D_00800
- Input BD size: 41.83 GB
- Approximate total content: [02:22:54.899]
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
- Mode: MKV Container, Full-SBS (3D), AC3 Audio
- 3D conversion mode enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: FRIMSource
- Audio Settings: AC3=1 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640
- Resuming from previously started job.
[18:06:50] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [18:06:50] Processing: VID_00895 (1 of 1)
- [18:06:51] Reencoding video [VID_00895]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 205,592 frames
- Converting output to Side-By-Side 3D Format
- [18:06:51] Reencoding: VID_00895, Pass 1 of 1
- [22:09:39] Video Encode complete
- [22:09:39] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Reencoding audio to AC3...
[22:14:49]PHASE ONE complete
[22:14:49]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
- [22:14:49] Building ALTERNATE OUTPUT Structure
[22:18:03] - Encode and Rebuild complete
[22:18:03] JOB: MARVELS_THE_AVENGERS_3D finished.
That was using this preset:[00033]
caption=MKV Container, Full-SBS (3D), AC3 Audio
vBitrate=4000
aType=0
aBitrate=*
vFormat=7
cType=1

I'll run a regular Movie-Only encode (non ALTERNATE) using CRF and see what happens.

[jdobbs]

One other thing. You say you "turn ON DTS to AC3" -- but your log shows that it is actually turned off. It should look like this: - Audio Settings: AC3=1 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640It is on by default. Clicking on the SETUP option turns it off.

I just thought about it... it really isn't feasible to do normal movie-only CRF encodes with FRIMSource() because it requires frame-accurate seeking in order to do the prediction for setting a CRF that will meet the target size. I'll have to disable that as an option. As I showed, though, it is fine for ALTERNATE output (since output size isn't a factor).

[mmick]

I tested the ALTERNATE output with CRF and it works fine:
[00033]
caption=MKV Container, Full-SBS (3D), AC3 Audio
vBitrate=4000
aType=0
aBitrate=*
vFormat=7
cType=1


You defined the vBitrate under the profile, so:
1) the encoder used that bitrate...or the CRF value?

2) if I want to define a final size (and not bitrate or crf), how should I let the profile?

One other thing. You say you "turn ON DTS to AC3" -- but your log shows that it is actually turned off.

Perhaps I am doing something wrong, but as on my image, I did NOT check "do not convert dts to ac3", so it means it will convert to ac3...nevertheless, as you see on my log, ac3=0 ...

http://s27.postimg.org/mizt40a6b/Untitled.jpg

PS: why instead of writing "do not convert dts to ac3" which makes people think too much...why not "convert dts to ac3" and the people who want ac3 instead, click there? :D

[jdobbs]

1. When selecting the ALTERNATE preset you decide one of three different methods. CRF, two-pass at bitrate, or two-pass for a target size. If you select CRF, you get CRF. If you select bitrate -- you get the bitrate specified.

2. If you select size (you set the desired size in the ALTERNATE selection dialog) you will get the bitrate needed to hit that size.

For your last question: Because the default is to convert to AC3. DTS, in my opinion, is an incredible waste of space (especially HD), and that valuable space will be taken from and reduce picture quality. So I want people to purposely have to make a change if they want to keep DTS (against the recommended default).

[mmick]

So I want people to purposely have to make a change if they want to keep DTS (against the recommended default).

:goodpost: thanks ;) fantastic work btw :)

[gogosch]

No. There's really nothing special about 1080i... Can you specify a title in which this happens?

Here a link to a short sequence: http://1drv.ms/1pHO0CP
It happens at all 1080i material.

[jdobbs]

Here a link to a short sequence: http://1drv.ms/1pHO0CP
It happens at all 1080i material.It doesn't happen on 1080i material that originates on a BD -- I've done lots. So it would be incorrect to say "all 1080i material". It has to be related to how this is either encoded or captured.

If you can post a small clip from the original maybe we can see what is happening.

[gogosch]

I will try to cut the piece of the original DVBS transport stream next time I recognize distortions.
I the previous case the original ist no more availabe.
Regards

Now I have a small AVCHD-Clip (~2min ) created, which produces after processing by BD-Rebuilder (with the below settings) some distortions, especially in the last quarter.
Link to the complete AVCHD-structure (compressed tar): http://1drv.ms/1pJVdCw
Here are my settings
[07.02.14] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.47.06 (beta)
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 1.250,15GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.5.8.0, Ok
- HAALI Splitter: 1.9.42.1, Ok
- FFDSHOW: 4504, Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "libavcodec": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[07.02.14] Systems Settings Check complete
[Options]
VERSION=0.47.0.6
MODE=3
ENCODE_QUALITY=2
ONEPASS_ENCODING=0
AUTO_QUALITY=0
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=deu;ger;
SUBS_TO_KEEP=
SD_CONVERT=0
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=1
AC3_REENCODE=0
AC3_640=0
AC3_192=0
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=0
AVCHD=1
REMOVE_WORKFILES=1
MOVIE_ONLY_LOOP=1
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=1
USE_LAVF=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=1
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=1
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=1
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=0
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=23500
MINIMIZE_TO_TRAY=1
TARGET_SIZE=4469
QUICK_EXTRAS=0
PRIORITY_CLASS=0
STATUS_LOG=0
ENCODER=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
IGNORE_3D=0
DGDECIM=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
DGDECNV=0
OUTPUT_SBS=0
NEROAAC=0
SUPTITLE=0
[Paths]
SOURCE_PATH=F:\BD IMAGES\003\
WORKING_PATH=E:\AUTHORED\

[Sharc]

@gogosch
Can you tell us where to look? (appoximate time or frame number). I don't see any distortions ....

[gogosch]

@gogosch
Can you tell us where to look? (appoximate time or frame number). I don't see any distortions ....

First you have to process the downloaded clip with BD-Rebuilder.
This is the original without errors.
After processing some distortions will be at 58 sec upwards.
I will try to upload the processed clip tomorrow.

[Sharc]

First you have to process the downloaded clip with BD-Rebuilder.
This is the original without errors.
After processing some distortions will be at 58 sec upwards.
I will try to upload the processed clip tomorrow.
In the Setup menu, try to:
- unselect "use DEINTERLACER on interlaced sources"
- unselect "IVTC sources with 3:2 pulldown"

These settings do not necessarily apply for your source (although they should actually do no harm ....)

Edit:
I found the 2 glitches now. The movie jumps back and forth when playing the file with MPC-HC or VLC.
Interestingly, when playing the interlaced encoded file back with DGIndexNV the playback is smooth. It is however jerky as well when is deinterlaced for encoding.
Strange....

Edit 2:
There seems to be a problem with the source (frame 558 / time 22.320 and frame 582 / time 23.280) which irritates some decoders.
I don't think it's something which BD-RB can fix.

Perhaps an expert could chime in ....

[gogosch]

Here the link to a processed Clip: http://1drv.ms/1qpM005

I tried to uncheck both items but results are the same. :eek:
I also tried different versions of TsMuxErGUI with the same results: The demuxed stream is smooth but after process by BDRebuilder some glitches will occur
Some BetaVersions ago, everything was fine.
Unfortunately I cannot run older beta versions of BDRebuilder anymore ...... :(

[musiclover]

=Unfortunately I cannot run older beta versions of BDRebuilder anymore ...... :(

You can run these older versions by first turning the computer clock to an older date

[jdobbs]

You can run these older versions by first turning the computer clock to an older dateIf you do, though, don't EVER post a bug report. It will be ignored, and any following posts will be treated with suspicion.

[jdobbs]

Here the link to a processed Clip: http://1drv.ms/1qpM005

I tried to uncheck both items but results are the same. :eek:
I also tried different versions of TsMuxErGUI with the same results: The demuxed stream is smooth but after process by BDRebuilder some glitches will occur
Some BetaVersions ago, everything was fine.
Unfortunately I cannot run older beta versions of BDRebuilder anymore ...... :(Check and make sure you are using the versions of the helper apps in the first post of this thread. I just ran the clip you posted, and the backup runs perfectly with no glitches.

[Edit] I've done it using Directshow (the default), with DGDecNV, and with LAVF (x264 internal) -- and they all work without issue.

Can you click on INSPECT under the HELP menu and post your results? I would also recommend you reinstall from scratch using the instruction in the first post of this thread.

[gogosch]

My Settings:
[07.02.14] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.47.06 (beta)
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 1.250,15GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.5.8.0, Ok
- HAALI Splitter: 1.9.42.1, Ok
- FFDSHOW: 4504, Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "libavcodec": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[07.02.14] Systems Settings Check complete

I reistalled all "helpers" and the results are the same.
Excatly the same glitches at the same positions!

[jdobbs]

My Settings:
[07.02.14] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.47.06 (beta)
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 1.250,15GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.5.8.0, Ok
- HAALI Splitter: 1.9.42.1, Ok
- FFDSHOW: 4504, Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "libavcodec": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[07.02.14] Systems Settings Check complete

I reistalled all "helpers" and the results are the same.
Excatly the same glitches at the same positions!Then the only conclusion I can make is that there is something wrong with your system... as it works on mine in every mode I have tried. You might check your heatsink for dust, although that's a longshot in this instance.

Check and make sure you don't have any CODEC packs installed or other questionable video apps. Sometimes these can intercept or override the default settings. The likelihood is high that the issue is in the frame-serving/decoding.

[gogosch]

You are right!
It must be a bug in my system.
I just installed BDRebiulder on another System (Server2008R2) where BDRebuilder runs absolutely flawlessly. :D
Here the Settings of the other System:
[07.03.14] Checking System Settings
- BD-Rebuilder v0.47.06 (beta)
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- Working Path Free Space: 2.557,96GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.5.8.0, Ok
- HAALI Splitter: 1.9.42.1, Ok
- FFDSHOW: 3326, Ok
- WIN7 preferred AVC CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred VC-1 CODEC: Ok
- WIN7 preferred MPEG2 CODEC: Ok
- FFDSHOW VC-1 set to "wmv9", Ok
- FFDSHOW MPEG2 set to "libavcodec": Ok
- FFDSHOW AVC set to "ffmpeg-mt": Ok
- AnyDVD settings check: Ok.
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[07.03.14] Systems Settings Check complete


It now works without glitches when setting alternate decoder Options to LAVF !
Could anybody say why?

I try to say the glitches occurred first in coincidence after switching to Windows 8.1.

[jdobbs]

I'd check for CODEC packs... that's the most likely candidate. Some of them intercept the frame-serving and are notorious for "glitches" in playback. My guess is that the glitch occurs before X264 sees the picture for encoding.

[gogosch]

The only codec I see in the installed programs is "MyFreeCodec" from Samsung (FF_MPEG.DLL), which is installed with "Kies".
I removed them.
Other "unknown" codecs came with VLC and Aver-Media (Video Card) and were installed since 2009.
Regards
H.

[Mark_Venture]

@ Mark Venture RE: I went to do a backup of The Lego Movie 3D, and the output was 2D, not 3D.

This disk, or at least the US version I did (36.3 GB), was pretty problematic. I tried different ways to pull out the 3D movie and all that BD Rebuilder would recognize as existing on the ripped ISO, was the VID 00042 file which was 2D and had a size of 2,454.44 MB with a run time of 1:40:35. I finally just gave up and did a full 50GB DL backup. I would be interested to see what jdobbs can figure out about this exceptional disk.
I did a rip with AnyDVD HD to ISO, mounted with Virtual Clone Drive, and pointed BD-Rebuilder to it.

Alt Movie Only to 1080 MKV with intact audio worked fine once that "Enable SBS 3D Movie-Only output" option was checked.

I'd have to look at my logs to see what it picked.. will do that when I get home if you are still having issues.

I have NOT tried to make a "full" backup to a writeable disc though.

[mmick]

Sorry, tried today again with another 3D Movie "Tron" with CRF 26, Movie-only backup, tried both "Alternate" and "BD and AVCHD", and the movie takes ages to encode (until I abort), a lot longer than a 2-pass mode, using 25% of my cpu instead 50% (2-pass).

I make a backup with the latest DVDFab 9 as a miniISO and then the encoding.

Again:
- it is the same enabling or disabling "do not convert dts to ac3": on the encoding process ("alternate" or with "standard bd...") it comes ALWAYS "AC3=0, DTS=1"
- with CRF it takes forever. With 2-pass it takes 4-6h but it gets the job done

Whats going on?

- fresh install; full 64-bit windows 8.1;

PS: can be used in the future "Intel Quicksync"? With other programs my slow Intel i5 4200U shows gains from 20-25 fps to 80-90 fps... If I had an i7 @ 4.0 Ghz it would be another story lolol

[jdobbs]

Sorry, tried today again with another 3D Movie "Tron" with CRF 26, Movie-only backup, tried both "Alternate" and "BD and AVCHD", and the movie takes ages to encode (until I abort), a lot longer than a 2-pass mode, using 25% of my cpu instead 50% (2-pass).

I make a backup with the latest DVDFab 9 as a miniISO and then the encoding.

Again:
- it is the same enabling or disabling "do not convert dts to ac3": on the encoding process ("alternate" or with "standard bd...") it comes ALWAYS "AC3=0, DTS=1"
- with CRF it takes forever. With 2-pass it takes 4-6h but it gets the job done

Whats going on?

- fresh install; full 64-bit windows 8.1;

PS: can be used in the future "Intel Quicksync"? With other programs my slow Intel i5 4200U shows gains from 20-25 fps to 80-90 fps... If I had an i7 @ 4.0 Ghz it would be another story lololI have no idea what "make a backup with the latest DVDFab 9 as a miniISO" means, as I don't use DVDFab... but it sounds like preprocessing and makes the source suspect in my mind.

Enabling "do not convert dts to ac3" works 100% of time for me and I have received no other reports of it not working.

What frame serving method are you using when you try CRF? A long would make it clearer what you are doing.

You can use Intel Quicksync now, see this link (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1679856#post1679856).

[mmick]

I have no idea what "make a backup with the latest DVDFab 9 as a miniISO" means,

Just another way of decrypting to a little different .iso file, nothing special

Enabling "do not convert dts to ac3" works 100% of time for me [...]What frame serving method are you using when you try CRF?

I installed everything again. I let everything as default, as I only make 3D movies, FRIMSource comes as default. I uncheck "do not encode dts as ac3" because I want AC§ from a dts file, as I need smaller file, but compatible ac3.

I discovered what was screwing my encode: "crop black bars"!!! With this option on it won´t go further...

You can use Intel Quicksync now, see this link (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1679856#post1679856).

So if I understand well, adding FRIM_SW_DECODE=0 and FRIM_SW_ENCODE=0 will do the trick? Do I need to install Quick-sync ffdshow aswell?

Question 1:
Source: 2D + 3D movie (so AVC + MVC)

Destination: 3D MVC movie (instead of SBS)

Is it enough just uncheck "process 3D as 2D" and "enable SBS 3D"?

Question 2:
On your opinion, what would be better as overall 3D result (quality and as HW decode compatibility): MVC or full size SBS?

[HWK]

So if I understand well, adding FRIM_SW_DECODE=0 and FRIM_SW_ENCODE=0 will do the trick? Do I need to install Quick-sync ffdshow aswell?



In your case no, you are using frimsource and above mentioned are for frimdecode and encode only. It doesn't affect frimsource.

Question 1:
Source: 2D + 3D movie (so AVC + MVC)

Destination: 3D MVC movie (instead of SBS)

Is it enough just uncheck "process 3D as 2D" and "enable SBS 3D"?


Yes, it is enough for 3D mvc encoding.



Question 2:
On your opinion, what would be better as overall 3D result (quality and as HW decode compatibility): MVC or full size SBS?

MVC is way to go, full size is against the specs and will not supported by licensed player and many other players.

Full SBS used for storage only and require very high bit-rate along with profile 5.0 at the least.

Quality wise when it come to picture info there is no difference other than how they are stacked.

[jdobbs]

...as I only make 3D movies, FRIMSource comes as default. Ok I'm confused. FRIMDecode and FRIM Encoder are the only way to do 3D. So you can't disable it for a 3D source. Also, you can't use CRF when using FRIMSource() -- I've already said that. It isn't going to work because you can't do seeking.PS: can be used in the future "Intel Quicksync"? With other programs my slow Intel i5 4200U shows gains from 20-25 fps to 80-90 fps... If I had an i7 @ 4.0 Ghz it would be another story lololWhen using FRIMSource and FRIM Encode -- you ARE using "Intel Quicksync". If your system supports hardware encoding, look at FRIM_SW_DECODE and FRIM_SW_ENCODE in HIDDENOPTS.TXT. If you set it to hardware mode in the CONFIG/INI file (and your system truly supports it) you should see the higher speeds.On your opinion, what would be better as overall 3D result (quality and as HW decode compatibility): MVC or full size SBS?Well... full size SBS isn't BD compatible so it isn't really a 1:1 comparison. But if you are doing, for example, an MKV backup for archiving -- you'll likely get better quality with full SBS because you can then use X264 for the encoding. X264 is a better encoder and has lots of features that improve picture quality. You may get a little better efficiency (lower output size) with MVC because of lesser redundancy, but that's about it. But it also is compatible with BD -- and full SBS is unlikely to ever be BD compatible.

[HWK]

Jdobbs, does frimsource.dll benefit from Intel quicksync. Last time I checked it was only frimdecode and frimencode.

May be I am missing something. Also wouldn't frimsource.dll limit by avisynth as well.

[mmick]

HWK & Jdobbs: thanks for the answers


...Also, you can't use CRF when using FRIMSource() -- I've already said that. It isn't going to work because you can't do seeking.

Perhaps I missed it. Curious enough, BD Rebuilder will try to use crf (but then won´t do anything) though I am doing a 3D with FRIMSource.

When using FRIMSource and FRIM Encode -- you ARE using "Intel Quicksync". If your system supports hardware encoding, look at FRIM_SW_DECODE and FRIM_SW_ENCODE in HIDDENOPTS.TXT. If you set it to hardware mode in the CONFIG/INI file (and your system truly supports it) you should see the higher speeds.

My system has a new Haswell i5 4200U processor (together with an Nvidia 730M), so yes. Nevertheless I only got between 8 - 20 fps. PS: handbrake uses this tech for normal movies, can´t be done to use outside FRIMSource?

But if you are doing, for example, an MKV backup for archiving -- you'll likely get better quality with full SBS because you can then use X264 for the encoding

No, I do not use BD compatibility, I have a Windows 8.1 HTPC with XBMC, PowerDVD and so on, and I want to watch 3D movie backups with the best quality. Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie.

Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.

[jdobbs]

...and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.My experience is that powerdvd crashes a lot with or without mvc... :)

[jdobbs]

Jdobbs, does frimsource.dll benefit from Intel quicksync. Last time I checked it was only frimdecode and frimencode.

May be I am missing something. Also wouldn't frimsource.dll limit by avisynth as well.Actually I should correct/clarify myself.

FRIMSource() is used when doing SBS output of 3D. When doing a standard MVC backup FRIMDECODE is used.

I know FRIMSource() uses the Intel SDK just like FRIMDecode does, so I would assume it uses quicksync for decoding. It is my impression that it is just a version of FRIMDecode that has been modified for use as an AVISYNTH plugin. But I've never actually seen the code.

[mmick]

My experience is that powerdvd crashes a lot with or without mvc... :)

Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they don´t support my HDD backups...)

[jdobbs]

Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they don´t support my HDD backups...)Sorry, but no. I do my 3D viewing on either a Samsung or Sony standalone. I only use PowerDVD when I'm doing quick tests of new code.

[worknstiff]

@mmick RE: Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie. Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.

I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk. I use Arcsoft TMT5 for playback of my 3D backups and it plays very well using my Nvidia GPU hooked up to a 3D capable display and of course 3D glasses. I don't really see the need to downgrade the picture quality by using SBS unless you are just trying to make a more compact portable file. SBS will never be a great video quality solution even if you use the FULL SBS size, or at least that's what I have found by playing around with it.

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.

[HWK]

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.

I will give a try, in a day or two. In the mean time can you post about setting you are using to back it up or any other info which might be relevant.

[HWK]

Do you know any alternative for 3D MVC files? (I tried other players like windvd but they don´t support my HDD backups...)

Arcosft TMT will help you in this case.

[mmick]

I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk.

I cannot afford to have a full-bitrated backup of my 3D movies, most (without extras or extra soundtracks) would use 25-40Gb...

I am still struggling to find a stable, decent 3D output that would be generally accepted by most (Windows) players.

Half-SBS MKV/M2TS: accepted by all players (manual 3D on my TV) and plays on all "Full HD capable" hardware. Looks like a 3D DVD-rip. Unacceptable.

Full-SBS MKV/M2TS: Powerdvd and XBMC detects it well as 3D, but bad aspect ratio. My AMD E-450 "UVD3" HTPC doesn´t play it on hardware and it is too slow. It plays fine on my i5-4200U ultrabook. Looks like a 3D 720p movie. Acceptable.

MVC MKV/M2TS/ISO: Still on tests. (AMD E-450 "UVD3" HTPC is too slow).

How do you set-up BD Rebuilder for your movie-only MVC ISO?

Arcosft TMT will help you in this case.

Thanks, I´ll try to find a test version of it :-)

[HWK]

How do you set-up BD Rebuilder for your movie-only MVC ISO?



In BD-RB navigate to mode section and choose movie only backup. This method will work for 2D and 3D.

http://s21.postimg.org/owwmv8e2f/Mode.jpg

[jdobbs]

@mmick RE: Nevertheless all full SBS movies lack detail in comparison with the original movie. Sadly XBMC only supports SBS and not MVC, and powerdvd crashes a lot reading movie-only mvc backups.

I don't know why you would want to do 3D in SBS even if doing it with Full SBS. You can do 3D movie only output to either MVC or ISO output and keep the original bitrate quality if you don't need to fit it onto a blue-ray disk. I use Arcsoft TMT5 for playback of my 3D backups and it plays very well using my Nvidia GPU hooked up to a 3D capable display and of course 3D glasses. I don't really see the need to downgrade the picture quality by using SBS unless you are just trying to make a more compact portable file. SBS will never be a great video quality solution even if you use the FULL SBS size, or at least that's what I have found by playing around with it.

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.A full SBS movie would have exactly the same detail as an MVC backup.

Sorry, but no, I haven't tried LEGO MOVIE yet.

[IVaN_000]

LEGO Movie is a strange disc. The movie m2ts is tiny, and the ssif is huge. But it works. :confused:

[Sharc]

On vacation right now -- please remind me to look at it in a couple of weeks.

jdobbs:
A friendly reminder; it looks as if you would be back home :cool:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1683674&postcount=20413

[k-c-ksum]

when specifying

MIN_M2TS_SIZE=30 it gets ignored, I understand the default is 100 but anything lower and the new setting gets ignored. It only responds to setting above 100.

trying to blank a bunch of extras that are between 30 and 100mb :(

[HWK]

LEGO Movie is a strange disc. The movie m2ts is tiny, and the ssif is huge. But it works. :confused:

When you refer to it works, are you referring to backup or playback. I am guessing playback but want to confirm.

[update] It is backup problem and has to do with input size seen by BD-RB. I am trying to find out what is the cause of this issue.

[HWK]

@ jdobbs. Have you been able to experiment any with "THE LEGO MOVIE" 3D yet? I was hoping to see if you or anyone else had trouble backing it up.



Sorry, but no, I haven't tried LEGO MOVIE yet.

I have managed to figure out cause of failure and why it is failing. In my case I used Region A disc. This is gone be long so bear with me.

[Disc Info]

00042.m2ts contain only 7min and 19 sec from beginning and 00065.m2ts is mvc view for corresponding 00042.m2ts. Normally 3D disc has AVC and MVC view and they are interleaved in ssif folder with file name of avc file. Which allow backwards compatibility with 2D system.

Example 0001.m2ts (AVC) and 0002.m2ts (MVC) will be 0001.ssif with size of 0001 + 0002 combined.

Lego is 3D exclusive and in this case there is no backwards compatibility and will not play in 2D system. Normally disc are backwards compatible, even if they are not as long there is avc stream with full movie, hack like Slysoft Anydvd "simulate 3D display" would work. However in this case it simply doesn't contain full movie avc stream.

Rather it is made of SSIF file, which is not fake or made of two m2ts files commonly found on disc. SSIF file in this case holds actual movie itself and since it only play in 3D, when player plays it is actually reading SSIF file sectors, not interleaved files between two m2ts files normally found in Blu-ray 3D.

Reason why BD-RB can’t back it up is normally when you open disc in BD-RB. It scans all mpls based files and display movie only or all relevant title based on import threshold. In Lego case 00098.mpls tell program movie is 1h 40m and 35 sec which causes it to import, however it imports actual stream from 00042.m2ts and 00065.m2ts which account for size 2,454.44MB seen in BD-RB. Even though program suppose to import full movie but it end up importing 7min and 19 sec segment.

http://s2.postimg.org/jmt4d1qc9/Lego.png

What program need to do in this case is use SSIF file which will successfully import entire movie. Instead of first seven minute and nineteen second and to back it up program will also require telling tsmuxer to use SSIF file for extraction instead of m2ts it normally uses.

Normally if disc is interleaved to create SSIF file, BDMV folder will be close to double the size of movie and in some cases size of disc. However in this case there is not such thing.

http://i57.tinypic.com/jsesyb.png

[worknstiff]

@HWK RE: SSIF file in this case holds actual movie itself and since it only play in 3D, when player plays it is actually reading SSIF file sectors, not interleaved files between two m2ts files normally found in Blu-ray 3D.

Hey, thanks for looking into this HWK. I wonder if this is why the 3D quality in this movie was not as good as the REAL 3D that played in the theater. I watched this at home after I got it and was completely underwhelmed with what I was seeing. The whole movie was kinda soft and blurry, without the primary colors that popped when I saw it at the theater. I have seriously thought about returning it because I was so unimpressed with the 3D on it, especially because I paid 38 bucks for it.

[jdobbs]

jdobbs:
A friendly reminder; it looks as if you would be back home :cool:

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1683674&postcount=20413Yep, thanks, I'm home now. Life and vacations are too short. I'll go back an look at the posts.