BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[gonca]

@Lathe
For comparison try
Preset medium (high Quality)
CRF 18
If you wish to add tweaks add
TWEAK_PASS_ONE= --tune film
TWEAK_PASS_TWO= --tune film

CRF is a "constant quality" value
Presets add the bells and whistles to improve compressibility
At a constant CRF a higher quality preset should improve compressibility

i.e. CRF=18 size (preset medium) should be smaller than (preset faster)

[MrVideo]

Thanks kindly Mr. V! subme 10, DAMN I bet that takes quite a while

Depends on your definition of "a while." But yes, in the 3-4 hour range. I really do not care, since I have plenty of other things to do. The computer that I do the encodes on does nothing but encodes. I have other computers for other functions.

[jdobbs]

BUT... and this is what I don't understand, doesn't the whole deal also depend on what PRESETS you are using?Yes and no.

The concept of CRF is that you are encoding at a fixed quality. So, theoretically you will get the same quality for the same CRF regardless of the preset (note the "theoretically", it's not entirely perfect -- but it's very good).

So, while changing the preset shouldn't have a significant effect on the output quality -- it will have an effect on output size. So, by increasing from from "Good (Very Fast)" to "High Quality" you will see the size get smaller. Some people will tell you that the fast settings actually look better, because using bells-and-whistles to get size down can sometimes result in "smoothing". Personally I don't see it unless you're really trying to shrink a lot.

When I did my test on "The Revenant" I used all the standard settings BD-RB uses. Also note that the 8.5GB output size was of the video only. It didn't include audio. If someone who loves HD audio decided to keep an LPCM track (something I would never recommend) -- that size could easily double. Some people also like to keep several languages.

There's another way you can do a test similar to the one I did. You can use "One Pass CRF" (from the Encoder Settings menu). That way you can actually see what CRF would be required to hit a specific target size -- while taking into account your specific audio settings. BD-RB does some predictive passes using samples from the source and determines what CRF is needed to reach that size (using your current settings). Again, it's not perfect and you may get a little undersizing -- but it's pretty good at hitting the target. What you should see is that by changing from "Good (Very Fast)" to "High Quality" the CRF value will be smaller for a given target. Just out of curiosity, I'll run "The Revenant" a couple times and see what I get with each.

[Edit] The "Good (Very Fast)" prediction selected a CRF of 17.00 for a BD-25 encoding.
[Edit] The "High Quality" prediction selected a CRF of 12.85. This is ridiculously low -- and is results in little more than padding to make it hit the target.

In an earlier edit I mentioned a BD-RB imposed a low-end value of 16 -- but that no longer exists. If I remember correctly it was because I got too many complaints of undersizing when it was hitting the minimum. It's easier to simply remove the limit than to explain over-and-over that increasing the size would have resulted in no measurable quality improvement.

[Edit] Just a note for those who aren't familiar with CRF. A lower value results in better quality (less required quantization).

[MrVideo]

So, while changing the preset shouldn't have a significant effect on the output quality -- it will have an effect on output size. So, by increasing from from "Good (Very Fast)" to "High Quality" you will see the size get smaller.

Now I'm confused. Shouldn't the higher quality setting actually make the file size larger, as the bitrate should be higher?

[jdobbs]

Now I'm confused. Shouldn't the higher quality setting actually make the file size larger, as the bitrate should be higher?It's natural to think of it that way, but not when you are working with a fixed quality level (CRF). The bitrate or alternatively the CRF setting is made independently of preset. In a CRF encode, since the quality remains constant between the two encodes, the extra bells-and-whistles used in the more advanced preset actually lowers the size (overall bitrate) needed to reach the specified quality. That's why people often use the higher quality settings when creating MKV files. That way they get a desired level of quality at the smallest size, and you can fit more movies on a given storage device. It's also the reason H.264 is so much more efficient than MPEG-2, new compression techniques have been added.

[Lathe]

Yes and no.

The concept of CRF is that you are encoding at a fixed quality. So, theoretically you will get the same quality for the same CRF regardless of the preset (note the "theoretically", it's not entirely perfect -- but it's very good).

So, while changing the preset shouldn't have a significant effect on the output quality -- it will have an effect on output size. So, by increasing from from "Good (Very Fast)" to "High Quality" you will see the size get smaller. Some people will tell you that the fast settings actually look better, because using bells-and-whistles to get size down can sometimes result in "smoothing". Personally I don't see it unless you're really trying to shrink a lot.

When I did my test on "The Revenant" I used all the standard settings BD-RB uses. Also note that the 8.5GB output size was of the video only. It didn't include audio. If someone who loves HD audio decided to keep an LPCM track (something I would never recommend) -- that size could easily double. Some people also like to keep several languages.

There's another way you can do a test similar to the one I did. You can use "One Pass CRF" (from the Encoder Settings menu). That way you can actually see what CRF would be required to hit a specific target size -- while taking into account your specific audio settings. BD-RB does some predictive passes using samples from the source and determines what CRF is needed to reach that size (using your current settings). Again, it's not perfect and you may get a little undersizing -- but it's pretty good at hitting the target. What you should see is that by changing from "Good (Very Fast)" to "High Quality" the CRF value will be smaller for a given target. Just out of curiosity, I'll run "The Revenant" a couple times and see what I get with each.

[Edit] The "Good (Very Fast)" prediction selected a CRF of 17.00 for a BD-25 encoding.
[Edit] The "High Quality" prediction selected a CRF of 12.85. This is ridiculously low -- and is results in little more than padding to make it hit the target.

In an earlier edit I mentioned a BD-RB imposed a low-end value of 16 -- but that no longer exists. If I remember correctly it was because I got too many complaints of undersizing when it was hitting the minimum. It's easier to simply remove the limit than to explain over-and-over that increasing the size would have resulted in no measurable quality improvement.

[Edit] Just a note for those who aren't familiar with CRF. A lower value results in better quality (less required quantization).

Thanks JD! I appreciate you taking the time to explain. That is basically what I THOUGHT was going on. I wonder then, why the hell when I tried to do a Blu-ray with the 'High' (default) setting and a CRF 1-pass of 18 I got almost the same size as the original Blu-ray...??? It also happened when I was testing out the x265 'Archive' feature we were talking about a while ago. Why are the file sizes coming out so big...??? And in both cases the encode took a LONG time.

BTW Mr. V... If you are using subme 10 and it is ONLY taking 3-4 hours...??! WOW! You must have a quantum / tachyon computer my friend! :D

Thanks though!

[jdobbs]

Thanks JD! I appreciate you taking the time to explain. That is basically what I THOUGHT was going on. I wonder then, why the hell when I tried to do a Blu-ray with the 'High' (default) setting and a CRF 1-pass of 18 I got almost the same size as the original Blu-ray...??? It also happened when I was testing out the x265 'Archive' feature we were talking about a while ago. Why are the file sizes coming out so big...??? And in both cases the encode took a LONG time.

BTW Mr. V... If you are using subme 10 and it is ONLY taking 3-4 hours...??! WOW! You must have a quantum / tachyon computer my friend! :D

Thanks though!A lot can depend on the source (length and how compressible it it). It's also possible that your settings are affecting it. Look in the BD-RB folder for LASTCMD.TXT after the encode and post it. I'd like to see what is actually being used for the encode. Am I to assume you have forced the CRF to 18 with FIXED_CRF, or are you talking about ALTERNATE output?

[Lathe]

Look in the BD-RB folder for LASTCMD.TXT after the encode. I'd like to see what is actually being used for the encode.

Yeah, I think I should give it another try, it's been a while.

See, what you are saying about BDRB using a pretty dang high CRF (17) at the 'Fast' setting, sounds VERY good to me! So, if I can bloody well figure out actually how to DO this properly, then I will just use CRF 18 and see if I can get the Blu-ray file sizes down somewhat to save the RAPIDLY disappearing space on my many HDDs!

I'll try again and then post that file you mentioned...

Oh, and Gonca, thanks kindly for the suggestion too. That is pretty much what I'm shooting for, I think...

***EDIT

Also too JD... I do include the 'tweaks' that I mentioned. But, isn't the bloody POINT that when you do use these 'bells & whistles', that it helps the file size to be compressed BETTER...?

[Ch3vr0n]

@Jdobbs any further info into my "splitting" issue. Split instantly aborts, inspect checks out. If i disable splitting, encode proceeds.

[jdobbs]

@Jdobbs any further info into my "splitting" issue. Split instantly aborts, inspect checks out. If i disable splitting, encode proceeds.It's gotta' be your antivirus. The splitter is a fairly simple piece of software. I just broke it out from BD-RB so it can run concurrently with other processes.

[Ch3vr0n]

Well excluded entire bdrb folder, still don't work. Even disabling AV entirely doesn't fix it. Doubt it is the issue, it wasn't back when i was on win7

[Lathe]

... just an added thought...

That is why I was so interested in trying the x265 Archive feature. I basically want the best way to archive (back up) my Blu-rays with a high quality (CRF 18 or so) but with as small as a file size as I can. And, I THOUGHT that with the new x265 backup, that would result in even smaller file sizes than with that standard x264.

But again, when I tried to do that with these archive settings (I'm not sure about the last one):

ARCHIVE_ENABLE=1
ARCHIVE_LIMIT=1
ARCHIVE_CRF=16
ARCHIVE_265=0

... and I believe with the 'High' default setting, I got just about the exact same size of the original Blu-ray, but with the added pleasure of waiting like 12 hours for it! :)

So, I'm gonna TRY to run another encode now. I'm using about a 19 Gig Blu-ray. We'll see how it goes and I'll post that last command deal.

[Lathe]

Oh yeah... since I always use LAVF for the encoder, I cannot choose CRF encoding, so that means, and I THINK I had to do this last time I tried this, I need to switch it to DirectShow, right?

Thanks!

Also, how do I get it to do a CRF encode and set the value and NOT set the output size...??? It doesn't LOOK like I can do that, but can only do what you were telling me about by setting CRF and the BD-25 size to SEE what the resulting CRF is. But, how do I actually set the CRF and discount the output size...? (BTW, now that I think of it, that COULD have been my trouble before because I may have inadvertently left the output size set to BD-25 :o )

[jdobbs]

Oh yeah... since I always use LAVF for the encoder, I cannot choose CRF encoding, so that means, and I THINK I had to do this last time I tried this, I need to switch it to DirectShow, right?

Thanks!

Also, how do I get it to do a CRF encode and set the value and NOT set the output size...??? It doesn't LOOK like I can do that, but can only do what you were telling me about by setting CRF and the BD-25 size to SEE what the resulting CRF is. But, how do I actually set the CRF and discount the output size...? (BTW, now that I think of it, that COULD have been my trouble before because I may have inadvertently left the output size set to BD-25 :o )Look for FIXED_CRF in HIDDENOPTS.TXT.

[soneca]

For the record, the hundreds of encoders I did a film called "The Adventurer: The Curse of the Midas Box" was the winner in terms of compressibility. If they were all like this, I save a lot on hard disk! :eek:
The only explanation for difficult sources to be compressed for no apparent reason, that is already highly compressed.

Only the movie on Blu-ray.
(preset slower - crf 18)

General
ID : 0 (0x0)
Complete name : D:\BLU-RAY\O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS\BDMV\STREAM\00023.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 28.3 GiB
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 40.7 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate : 48.0 Mb/s

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 36.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 37.5 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.741
Stream size : 25.6 GiB (90%)


MKV

General
Unique ID : 248300777067398407366783915511877430750 (0xBACCFD7C3B43619A819C8E04BAB76DDE)
Complete name : E:\VIDEOS\O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 4.12 GiB
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Overall bit rate : 5 929 kb/s
Movie name : O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS
Encoded date : UTC 2016-07-24 18:49:16
Writing application : mkvmerge v9.3.1 ('Mask Machine') 32bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.4 + libmatroska v1.4.5

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Bit rate : 3 641 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 820 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.096
Stream size : 2.53 GiB (61%)
Writing library : x264 core 148 r2694 3b70645
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 /
psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / f
ast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 /
interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 /
weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 /
rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No

[Lathe]

Look for FIXED_CRF in HIDDENOPTS.TXT.

Yep, just NOW found that... DOHHHHHH!

Gee, I wonder if that is why ALL of my bloody CRF encodes have come out the size of a full Blu-ray...??? :o

[Lathe]

Hmmm, I added this to the config file:

FIXED_CRF=18

But, it is still showing the selected output size as BD-25...???

[Lathe]

For the record, the hundreds of encoders I did a film called "The Adventurer: The Curse of the Midas Box" was the winner in terms of compressibility. If they were all like this, I save a lot on hard disk! :eek:
The only explanation for difficult sources to be compressed for no apparent reason, that is already highly compressed.

Only the movie on Blu-ray.
(preset slower - crf 18)

General
ID : 0 (0x0)
Complete name : D:\BLU-RAY\O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS\BDMV\STREAM\00023.m2ts
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 28.3 GiB
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 40.7 Mb/s
Maximum Overall bit rate : 48.0 Mb/s

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 36.8 Mb/s
Maximum bit rate : 37.5 Mb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.741
Stream size : 25.6 GiB (90%)


MKV

General
Unique ID : 248300777067398407366783915511877430750 (0xBACCFD7C3B43619A819C8E04BAB76DDE)
Complete name : E:\VIDEOS\O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS.mkv
Format : Matroska
Format version : Version 4 / Version 2
File size : 4.12 GiB
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Overall bit rate : 5 929 kb/s
Movie name : O_AVENTUREIRO_A_MALDICAO_DA_CAIXA_DE_MIDAS
Encoded date : UTC 2016-07-24 18:49:16
Writing application : mkvmerge v9.3.1 ('Mask Machine') 32bit
Writing library : libebml v1.3.4 + libmatroska v1.4.5

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L5
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 8 frames
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1 h 39 min
Bit rate : 3 641 kb/s
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 820 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 23.976 (24000/1001) FPS
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.096
Stream size : 2.53 GiB (61%)
Writing library : x264 core 148 r2694 3b70645
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=8 / deblock=1:0:0 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=9 / psy=1 /
psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=2 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / f
ast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=12 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 /
interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 /
weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=240 / keyint_min=24 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=60 /
rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Default : Yes
Forced : No

Interesting Soneca, thanks!

This looks like a nicely reduced MKV encode that likely retains a lot of quality. I cannot use the 'Slower' setting because the resulting encode would not be compliant with my OPPO player. But, this is an excellent example.

[Lathe]

I also noticed that this hidden option is no longer listed:

AVCHD=1

What did that do again?

[Ch3vr0n]

afaik that setting forces strict AVCHD compliance

[Lathe]

Okay, the only way I could see to eliminate the output size was to chose the 'Archive' mode (x264) But, isn't that pretty much the same as the normal setting as if you were doing a 1-pass CRF encode with no output size specified...?

[Lathe]

afaik that setting forces strict AVCHD compliance

Yeah, makes sense...

[Lathe]

Okay, here is a real puzzler...

So, since I cannot seem to use CRF encoding with LAVF, I went ahead and changed it to DirectShow. I ran the Blu-ray movie file (m2ts) and I got this error:


[07/24/16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.17
[14:01:33] Source: __VID_00000
- Input BD size: 19.72 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:39:06.523]
- Target BD size: 10.45 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
- Quality: High Quality (Default), Two Pass
- X264 Tweak(s) enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: DirectShow
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=192
[14:01:34] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [14:01:34] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [14:01:34] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [14:04:16] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 142,574 frames
- Bitrate: 11,860 Kbs
- [14:04:16] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 1 of 2
- Encode failed. Aborting.
- BD-Rebuilder v0.50.17
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 73.04GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.6.0.6, Ok
- LAVFILTERS: Ok
- AnyDVD Remove Short Titles: Incompatible
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[14:04:17] - Failed video encode, aborted


Now, I NEVER use that feature with AnyDVD and besides, this is only the movie m2ts file, so there are no 'titles' short or otherwise. I first tried this with the Archive function using CRF and I got the error. Then I did it again, but this time NOT using the Archive function but using the normal 2 pass, selected output size, etc. I got basically the same error (the above log file)

Okay, so now I'm thinking that I normally only use LAVF, but I can't use the CRF 1-pass, so I leave EVERYTHING exactly the same as the above FAILED encode, but I change back to LAVF. And, guess what...??? NOW, the encode is proceeding just fine with NO errors!

So.... WHY...??!

Here is the current log file with the ONLY difference is that I went from DirectShow back to LAVF:


[07/24/16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.17
[14:05:41] Source: __VID_00000
- Input BD size: 19.72 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:39:06.523]
- Target BD size: 10.45 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
- Quality: High Quality (Default), Two Pass
- X264 Tweak(s) enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: X264/LAVF
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=192
[14:05:44] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [14:05:44] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [14:05:44] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [14:08:02] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 142,574 frames
- Bitrate: 11,860 Kbs
- [14:08:02] Reencoding: VID_00000, Pass 1 of 2


***EDIT

So, in other words, if I could bloody USE LAVF with the CRF 1-pass encoding, I should be fine and be able to archive like I've been asking about. BUT... since I can't and apparently HAVE to use DirectShow, I get an error...

So, now what...???

[gonca]

@Lathe
If you have FIXED_CRF=18 set then select the two items in the screencap and you can disregard the size.
Select your own preset if you wish

[Lathe]

@Lathe
If you have FIXED_CRF=18 set then select the two items in the screencap and you can disregard the size.
Select your own preset if you wish

Thanks Gonca, but I will have to wait until your picture is 'Approved' until I can see it. BTW, I already DO have that in my config file as I mentioned earlier.

[soneca]

Interesting Soneca, thanks!

This looks like a nicely reduced MKV encode that likely retains a lot of quality. I cannot use the 'Slower' setting because the resulting encode would not be compliant with my OPPO player. But, this is an excellent example.

Why not? Just adapt the preset making it compatible with the Oppo features.
I'm no expert but this example profile below based on preset slower never had problems between AVCHD discs(1080p) and players of various brands.

--preset slower --bluray-compat --tune film --level 4.0 --keyint 24 --min-keyint 1 --ipratio 1.2 --vbv-bufsize 14500 --vbv-maxrate 15000 --me umh --b-adapt 2 --ref 4 --bframes 3 --pic-struct --colorprim "bt709" --transfer "bt709" --colormatrix "bt709"

[jdobbs]

Hmmm, I added this to the config file:

FIXED_CRF=18

But, it is still showing the selected output size as BD-25...???That's ok. All targeting is out the window when CRF is selected and FIXED_CRF is set.

[Lathe]

That's ok. All targeting is out the window when CRF is selected and FIXED_CRF is set.

Oh, so you mean that even though the output size is still showing before encoding, as soon as I start the encode it will bypass or ignore the output size?

[jdobbs]

I also noticed that this hidden option is no longer listed:

AVCHD=1

What did that do again?It's not a hidden option -- it is set from within SETUP.

[Lathe]

Also too, did you have a chance to see where I got the error (AnyDVD error, although doesn't apply) with Directshow, and then with the EXACT same settings it ran just fine when I switched to LAVF...???

I included the two logs above.

Sure is weird...

It WOULD be nice if I could us LAVF AND still use 1 pass CRF 18, but BDRB doesn't allow it though...

[jdobbs]

Oh, so you mean that even though the output size is still showing before encoding, as soon as I start the encode it will bypass or ignore the output size?Yes. All it does when you set it is bypass the CRF prediction/selection algorithm and use the value from FIXED_CRF. Other than that if follows the exact same execution stream. To disable FIXED_CRF you can either delete it from the INI or set it to 0.

[Lathe]

It's not a hidden option -- it is set from within SETUP.

Oh, that's right... It's the setting 'Strict AVCHD', right...? Sorry...

[Lathe]

Yes. All it does when you set it is bypass the CRF prediction/selection algorithm and use the value from FIXED_CRF. Other than that if follows the exact same execution stream. To disable FIXED_CRF you can either delete it from the INI or set it to 0.

Good to know, thanks JD!

[jdobbs]

Also too, did you have a chance to see where I got the error (AnyDVD error, although doesn't apply) with Directshow, and then with the EXACT same settings it ran just fine when I switched to LAVF...???

I included the two logs above.

Sure is weird...

It WOULD be nice if I could us LAVF AND still use 1 pass CRF 18, but BDRB doesn't allow it though...That's because, as I mentioned, it still follows the same execution path -- and you can't make predictions without AVISYNTH (so it can select subsamples from across the entire film).

[jdobbs]

Oh, that's right... It's the setting 'Strict AVCHD', right...? Sorry...Exactly.

[Lathe]

That's because, as I mentioned, it still follows the same execution path -- and you can't make predictions without AVISYNTH (so it can select subsamples from across the entire film).

I'm afraid you lost me on that one... Except that I KNOW you need DirectShow to use Avisynth (I think... :) )

[Lathe]

That's because, as I mentioned, it still follows the same execution path -- and you can't make predictions without AVISYNTH (so it can select subsamples from across the entire film).

But if you are not predicting 'size' why do you need to select samples...?

[gonca]

Actually, it is predicting the CRF required for a given size

[jdobbs]

But if you are not predicting 'size' why do you need to select samples...?Because it doesn't know, at the time the decision is made, that it is going to bypass the prediction. Later on, when it is ready to do the prediction it says "Oh, a fixed CRF was entered. I have to use that instead of predicting."

I could do the check earlier -- but frankly LAVF has all kinds of other limitations and I just don't want to have to address all of them.

[Lathe]

Because it doesn't know, at the time the decision is made, that it is going to bypass the prediction. Later on, when it is ready to do the prediction it says "Oh, a fixed CRF was entered. I have to use that instead of predicting."

I could do the check earlier -- but frankly LAVF has all kinds of other limitations and I just don't want to have to address all of them.

Oh, I see...

I thought I heard some muttering when I put my ear really close to the screen... :cool:

[jdobbs]

Oh, I see...

I thought I heard some muttering when I put my ear really close to the screen... :cool:Sometimes it also tells really bad jokes. I haven't been able to fix that bug yet.

[Lathe]

sigh...

I STILL haven't got this right... :mad:

I thought I set everything as you suggested and all BDRB did was keep everything original because it was apparently STILL shooting for a BD-25 size!

What the heck am I missing...??!

Here is the log:

----------------------
[07/24/16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.17
[21:50:21] Source: VID_00020
- Input BD size: 15.65 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:13:01.043]
- Target BD size: 22.95 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- MOVIE-ONLY mode enabled
- Quality: High Quality (Default), CRF
- X264 Tweak(s) enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: DirectShow
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=192
[21:50:21] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [21:50:21] Processing: VID_00007 (1 of 2)
- [21:50:21] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00007]
- [21:53:13] Reencoding video [VID_00007]
- [21:53:13] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [21:53:13] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- Track 4353 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [21:53:13] Processing: VID_00001 (2 of 2)
- [21:53:13] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00001]
- [21:53:17] Reencoding video [VID_00001]
- [21:53:17] Keeping original video (no reencode)
[21:53:17]PHASE ONE complete
[21:53:17]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
- [21:53:17] Rebuilding BD file Structure
[21:53:56] - Aborted per user request


Here is my INI:

[Options]
VERSION=0.50.0.17

ENCODER=0
MODE=3
ENCODE_QUALITY=2
ONEPASS_ENCODING=1
AUTO_QUALITY=0
AUTO_BIAS=3
B_PYRAMID=1
QUICK_CRF=24
ENABLE_TEST=1
ENABLE_BLANKING=1
TWEAK_PASS_ONE=--direct auto --qcomp 0.50
TWEAK_PASS_TWO=--ref 4 --deblock -2:-2 --psy-rd 1.00:0.20 --me umh --subme 8 --trellis 2 --direct auto --qcomp 0.50
ARCHIVE_ENABLE=1
ARCHIVE_LIMIT=1
ARCHIVE_CRF=18
ARCHIVE_265=0
ARCHIVE_AUDIO_100
KEEP_HD_LPCM=1
USE_ZLIB=0
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=eng;
SUBS_TO_KEEP=eng;
SD_CONVERT=0
ALTERNATE_BLURAY=0
ENCODER_MENU=1
FIXED_CRF=18
MBTREE=1
NEW_CRF_PREDICTION=1
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=0
AC3_REENCODE=0
AC3_640=0
AC3_192=1
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=1
AUDIO_DRC=0
DECODER=0
AVCHD=1
TARGET_SIZE=23500
PRIORITY_CLASS=0
REMOVE_WORKFILES=0
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=0
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
OUTPUT_SBS=0
NEROAAC=0
SUPTITLE=0
PGSTOSRT=0
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=0
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=0
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=10700
MENU_BACKGROUND=D:\EXECUTABLES\BD-RBV05017\BD_Rebuilder\misc\menuback.jpg
MENU_AUDIO=D:\EXECUTABLES\BD-RBV05017\BD_Rebuilder\tools\blankclip\blank.ac3
IMPORT_THRESHOLD=1
QUICK_PLAY_THRESHOLD=1
MENU_AUTO_BACKGROUND=1
MENU_AUTO_DVDAUDIO=1
MENU_PLAY_SEQUENTIAL=0
MENU_START_WITH_MENU=1
IMPORT_LIMIT_LANG=0
IMPORT_KEEP_PLAYALL=0
IGNORE_3D=1
QUICK_EXTRAS=0
MOVIEONLY_TYPE=0
ALTCRF=20
ALT_TARGET=1024
ALT_CRF_TARGET=1024

*** EDIT

And THEN... when I try to use the Archive feature with DirectShow and CRF, I ALWAYS get this error with EVERY damn movie and I DON'T use that AnyDVD feature.

So, apparently, there is NO way at all for me to back anything up using CRF 1-pass no matter what I do...

Here is the error log when trying the Archive function no matter WHAT Blu-ray I try it with:
----------------------
[07/24/16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.17
[22:10:29] Source: VID_00020
- Input BD size: 22.80 GB
- Approximate total content: [02:12:28.511]
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Archive Backup (AVC/AC3) mode enabled
- Quality: High Quality (Default)
- X264 Tweak(s) enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: DirectShow
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=192
[22:10:29] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [22:10:29] Processing: VID_00001 (1 of 9)
- [22:10:29] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00001]
- [22:10:33] Reencoding video [VID_00001]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 1920x1080
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 24 frames
- [22:10:33] Reencoding: VID_00001, Pass 1 of 1
- Encode failed. Aborting.
- BD-Rebuilder v0.50.17
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Working Path Free Space: 95.06GB
- AVISYNTH Version: 2.6.0.6, Ok
- LAVFILTERS: Ok
- AnyDVD Remove Short Titles: Incompatible
- X264: Ok
- AFTEN: Ok
- FAAC: Ok
- MP4BOX: Ok
- WAVI: Ok
- TSMUXER: Ok
- FRIMEncode: Ok
- FRIMDecode: Ok
[22:10:34] - Failed video encode, aborted



BTW, this 'failed' encode trying to use the Archive feature is EXACTLY the same film as processed perfectly fine above... The only difference being that the Archive function did not seem to allow me to do a 'Movie Only' encode.

Makes absolutely NO sense at all...

[Ch3vr0n]

@jdobbs if it's not too much to ask could you build an exe with the split built in? I just want to see if that would work. I've never seen split.exe run along side other processes ever anyway. Only the x264's. I just can't get it to work and really doubt av is at fault here. It wasn't on my old system with win 7.

[Sharc]

@Lathe
Archive mode is intended for full backups.

[Lathe]

@Lathe
Archive mode is intended for full backups.

Ah, good to know!

Still doesn't explain all the weird behaviour though...

[MrVideo]

BTW Mr. V... If you are using subme 10 and it is ONLY taking 3-4 hours...??! WOW! You must have a quantum / tachyon computer my friend! :D

That is for encodes of 42-44 min sources @ 4Mbps. If I go to 8Mbps, then add an extra hour, at least (15 Mbps H.264 source). If I do 10, or 15, Mbps encodes of 35Mbps MPEG-2 sources, it too will take longer.

It is an AMD 4-core.

[varekai]

I could do the check earlier -- but frankly LAVF has all kinds of other limitations and I just don't want to have to address all of them.

Seems to remember something here, but I forgot what it was... alzheimers in progress...
Have to ask you once again, me I'm doing mostly movie only backups to BD25, downsample audio to AC3 640kbs.
For a veery long time I've been using X264 internal LAVF for my encodes, settings in ini ENCODE_QUALITY=4
(I know I'm anal about quality, sharp eyes you know).
Hardly ever do any alternate encoding to other formats than BD.
Would I be better off using DirectShowSource?
Sorry for being so ignorant... I'll save your answer in my knowledge base folder!! :D

Regards

[jdobbs]

Ah, good to know!

Still doesn't explain all the weird behaviour though...Not weird. Unless you are doing an archive, it doesn't reencode unless it has to.

[jdobbs]

Seems to remember something here, but I forgot what it was... alzheimers in progress...
Have to ask you once again, me I'm doing mostly movie only backups to BD25, downsample audio to AC3 640kbs.
For a veery long time I've been using X264 internal LAVF for my encodes, settings in ini ENCODE_QUALITY=4
(I know I'm anal about quality, sharp eyes you know).
Hardly ever do any alternate encoding to other formats than BD.
Would I be better off using DirectShowSource?
Sorry for being so ignorant... I'll save your answer in my knowledge base folder!! :D

RegardsIt's not really that big a deal. If you're doing a straight backup that doesn't require any filters, then LAVF is fine. But with the kinds of setting that require resizing, adding borders, iVTC, etc. -- DirectshowSource is needed. In most cases, when those kinds of things are in effect, BD-RB will automatically use DirectshowSource anyway since it can't do it without it. The only time it will fail is if LAV filters or FFDSHOW isn't installed.

[varekai]

It's not really that big a deal. If you're doing a straight backup that doesn't require any filters, then LAVF is fine. But with the kinds of setting that require resizing, adding borders, iVTC, etc. -- DirectshowSource is needed. In most cases, when those kinds of things are in effect, BD-RB will automatically use DirectshowSource anyway since it can't do it without it. The only time it will fail is if LAV filters or FFDSHOW isn't installed.
Thanks for your input, saved this conversation to a txt file... :D