BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[raisingcanex]

You can try eac3to with one of its GUIs to demux the streams.
See if it lists any errors
Please note that it must be a decrypted source

What is eac3to and where do I get it?

[gonca]

http://www.videohelp.com/software/eac3to

[Lathe]

Hey JD, I was trying to play around with Avisynth lately, and it appears that MANY of the plugins require version 2.8 according to the Wiki. I think for BDRB you require the version on page one of this thread, right? Isn't that like 2.6? Is there ANY way I can run 2.8 so that I can use a lot of these plugins that don't seem to work with 2.6?

I tried like 6 different degrainers / denoisers and none of them worked.

Thanks!

[Sharc]

Hey JD, I was trying to play around with Avisynth lately, and it appears that MANY of the plugins require version 2.8 according to the Wiki. .......

Avisynth 2.8? You mean Avisynth 2.5.8?

[jdobbs]

The latest official release of AVISYNTH is 2.60.

[MrVideo]

I have 2.5.8 installed on my system. It has been working great for me, so I haven't installed 2.6. If I ever run into a situation where I use a plugin that only works with 2.6, or later, then maybe I'll upgrade.

But, this discussion had me look at the BD-RB install area and I've noticed that the tons of DLL files that come with AVISynth are not there. Any particular reason for that?

It seems that BD-RB's 2.6 version is not conflicting with my 2.5.8 version. How is that possible? I've never looked into what exactly gets installed when the AVISynth package is installed.

Color me curious.

[jdobbs]

The v2.60 version referenced in the first post of this thread is the same as you'd download from anywhere else with no modifications. If you installed it, it should override any previous installations. There isn't a "BD-RB's 2.6 version". I just put it on my server for download so it is always available.

If you want to see what version is actually being used on your system, just create an AVS file that contains:

version()

Then open it with Media Player Classic. It will display the version that is in use.

[MrVideo]

Thanks for the memory refresh. Brain fart. I didn't install 2.6 as I will not be doing anything with BD-RB that will require the use of AVISynth, since all I am doing is creating discs with imported video files. Straight re-encoding doesn't appear to require it either, as BD-RB hasn't complained when it did do re-encodes.

Lathe, AVISynth can do a boatload of stuff. I haven't even scratched the surface with what I have done with it. It is THE tool for doing IVTC. There are two kinds of 23.976 -> 29.97 conversions. The most common that the industry uses is 2:3 pulldown. The other is repeat frame, whereby every 4th frame is repeated twice in the output. If you were able to watch Canadian TV, you'll find a lot of the Warner Bros. product being sat fed to Canada that way. AVISynth has a great tool for dropping said frame. The only gotchya is that the pattern has to be consistant throughout the video. So, if you record a show from OTA, you would have to edit it so that the pattern is consistent. I've done lots of other things, so have fun playing around with it.

BTW, I do not use MPC. Only VLC.

[Lathe]

Thanks for the memory refresh. Brain fart. I didn't install 2.6 as I will not be doing anything with BD-RB that will require the use of AVISynth, since all I am doing is creating discs with imported video files. Straight re-encoding doesn't appear to require it either, as BD-RB hasn't complained when it did do re-encodes.

Lathe, AVISynth can do a boatload of stuff. I haven't even scratched the surface with what I have done with it. It is THE tool for doing IVTC. There are two kinds of 23.976 -> 29.97 conversions. The most common that the industry uses is 2:3 pulldown. The other is repeat frame, whereby every 4th frame is repeated twice in the output. If you were able to watch Canadian TV, you'll find a lot of the Warner Bros. product being sat fed to Canada that way. AVISynth has a great tool for dropping said frame. The only gotchya is that the pattern has to be consistant throughout the video. So, if you record a show from OTA, you would have to edit it so that the pattern is consistent. I've done lots of other things, so have fun playing around with it.

BTW, I do not use MPC. Only VLC.

Heh, 2.58, NOT 2.8... yeah, I am indeed an idiot... GEEZ... :o

Thanks guys; another nice fellow on Doom9 reminded me of that, so my 'reputation', such as it is, is thrillingly spreading far and wide... :cool:

Anyway... YES my good friend, you are quite right! I am trying to learn to use Avisynth and it can do a HELL of a lot of stuff. I just dumped in a bunch of Dlls into my plugins directory. Now, if I can just make the damn things work!

Like you were saying (and MAN do I wish I had your understanding of the 'pulldowns' Inverse Telecine', etc. I don't have a bloody clue!) But, I will keep reading until either I learn, go blind, or go sterile...

Cheers!

[Lathe]

Ah, I just had to come here and laud the praises of both Sharc and JD!

I took Sharc's suggestion and ran my old movie capture clip through BDRB using the inverse telecine script in the ini (I STILL don't really understand what that does...) and I set it to make the movie 1280x720, and WOW! Damn does it look better!

Thank you Sharc! I think you just made up for all the times you've p*ssed me off! :D

So, JD... I think yet another sacrificial altar for Virgins is in order in your honour in my backyard (well, they might not actually still be virgins by the time they get to the altar, but...)

[bfrqrv]

Hello,

I hope someone can help me with this one. I don't think its very difficult but I can't find the reason for quiet a few days now.
I try to explain what I do.

I extract 3D iso files to BDMV
After thata I give it to BD Rebuilder, and most of the times it is perfect. But sometimes I get this error. Its strange because sometimes I can do the same iso with succes. I mean the very same iso that was wrong yesterday. I show you the log. It looks like some files are occupied but I close all the program's that can interfere.

10-19-16] BD Rebuilder v0.50.18
[15:32:18] Source: 80GB
- Input BD size: 45,74 GB
- Approximate total content: [03:44:16.567]
- Target BD size: 46,26 GB
- Windows Version: 6.2 [9200]
- Quality: Good (Very Fast), ABR
- MVC 3D Output Mode enabled
- Decoding/Frame serving: FRIMDecode
- Audio Settings: AC3=0 DTS=0 HD=1 Kbs=640
[15:32:18] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [15:32:18] Processing: VID_00469 (1 of 22)
- [15:32:18] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00469]
- [15:32:45] Reencoding video [VID_00469]
- [15:32:45] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:32:45] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:32:46] Multiplexing M2TS
- [15:33:13] Processing: VID_00473 (2 of 22)
- [15:33:13] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00473]
- [15:33:23] Reencoding video [VID_00473]
- [15:33:23] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:33:23] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:33:23] Multiplexing M2TS
- [15:33:32] Processing: VID_00474 (3 of 22)
- [15:33:32] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00474]
- [15:49:01] Reencoding video [VID_00474]
- [15:49:01] Keeping original video (no reencode)
- [15:49:01] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (eng): Keeping original audio
- [15:49:01] Multiplexing M2TS
- Error in attempt to multiplex: MUX_00474.meta
- Can't open file: F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc
[15:49:04] - Failed to build structure, aborted

I like this program so much that I must find the reason why this is happening.

[Ch3vr0n]

You don't extract 3D iso's. Doing that risks corrupting the file structure and make it twice the iso size. Which is exactly what happened.

[15:32:18] Source: 80GB
- Input BD size: 45,74 GB

You MOUNT the 3D iso in something like Virtual Clone Drive, and point the BDRB to the virtual drive.

[bfrqrv]

You don't extract 3D iso's. Doing that risks corrupting the file structure and make it twice the iso size. Which is exactly what happened.



You MOUNT the 3D iso in something like Virtual Clone Drive, and point the BDRB to the virtual drive.

Almost good but not totally right I think. I extract the iso and I call the map 80GB because I knwo the ISO will expand when you do that with 3d ISO. But the structure isnt ruined that way. And like I said sometimes the same movie with the same routing (extract) is not giving the error. So there must be another factor. I extract with winrar, windows, poweriso, thats not the issue. I think the file is occupied, but can someone confirm that looking at the error?

ps. I forgot telling you why I extract. I insert a subtitle file after the bdmv is made. There is no other way to to that then first extract. after that I have the good working movie with my subs, but I want it to be smaller again like 50GB or 25 GB. That is working but not each time with exact the same movie and procedure.

[Ch3vr0n]

There is another way. When the stream is demuxed, you abort the encode before remuxing is done and replace the stream. Either way you don't extract a 3d ssif structure to folders. A 45gb iso can easily grid to 1.5 or twice the size.

It's up to you.

[jdobbs]

All I can tell you is that it looks like F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc doesn't exist when BD-RB tries to remux.

[bfrqrv]

All I can tell you is that it looks like F:\REMUXED\WORKFILES\00475.track_4114.mvc doesn't exist when BD-RB tries to remux.

I must replace more then only the stream when I want to do the trick for a full menu bluray. But thx Ch3vr0n.

The analyse of jdobbs is almost equeal as mine conclusion. I think it does exists but has a rights issue or that the file is occupied. I try to restart the system before I give it to BD Rebuilder and hope it will work.

[MrVideo]

Heh, 2.58, NOT 2.8... yeah, I am indeed an idiot... GEEZ... :o
2.5.8, not 2.58. :D
Like you were saying (and MAN do I wish I had your understanding of the 'pulldowns' Inverse Telecine', etc. I don't have a bloody clue!) But, I will keep reading until either I learn, go blind, or go sterile...

Read the wiki info on pulldown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down).

IVTC is the method by which the four original frames are extracted from the five frames in order to get back to 23.976. The exact method by which the AVISynth plugin does that is beyond the scope of this forum.

[MrVideo]

I took Sharc's suggestion and ran my old movie capture clip through BDRB using the inverse telecine script in the ini (I STILL don't really understand what that does...) and I set it to make the movie 1280x720, and WOW! Damn does it look better!

Yes, 23.976 playback looks better than 2:3 pulldown 29.97 playback. There is always that "judder" with the 29.97 video. Wasn't as bad when displayed on old interlaced analog TVs. With digital display, not so much. Hence the reason I convert all 29.97 pulldown video back to 23.976 before watching it.

BTW here is the code segment that does the work:
assumetff()
telecide(guide=0)
decimate()

Jdobbs should be doing something along those lines.

[jdobbs]

Jdobbs should be doing something along those lines.BD-RB already does. Look at SETUP. You can also choose between iVTC with DECOMB (telecide/decimate) or TIVTC. You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.

[Lathe]

2.5.8, not 2.58. :D

I'm really gonna hafta hurt ya man.. :devil:


Read the wiki info on pulldown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-two_pull_down).

IVTC is the method by which the four original frames are extracted from the five frames in order to get back to 23.976. The exact method by which the AVISynth plugin does that is beyond the scope of this forum.

Yes, I'm going to read more about that, but I'm STARTING to get the general idea, thanks.

Yes JD, this is the script BDRB used and you can be dang sure I copied it and put it in my AV encoding folder!

LoadPlugin("D:\EXECUTABLES\BD-RBV05018\BD_Rebuilder\tools\decomb521.dll")
ConvertToYV12()
Telecide(order=1,guide=1)
Decimate(cycle=5)
Spline16Resize(960,720).Addborders(160,0,160,0)
ConvertToYV12().AssumeFPS(24000,1001)

[MrVideo]

Like I said, it is something that you should be doing and you are.
You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.
Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.

[Lathe]

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdobbs

You can also force inverse telecining on hard-telecined sources.




Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.

Very interesting and good to know, since the prints that I do have where I have to do all this stuff are indeed captured broadcasts in most cases, so it would be good to know what to do with those to improve them. Of course most of my movie collection (over 7500 films now) are concentrated with Blu-rays and when necessary DVDs. But, I have a small number of very rare and commercially unavailable films, and these are the ones that I am trying to concentrate on now and learn about Avisynth.

Well, not to take up too much space here on this thread, but that is definitely one of the things I need to read about because I have NO idea what 'hard telecining' is...

But, I will go and look it up now :)

[jdobbs]

Like I said, it is something that you should be doing and you are.

Wouldn't you want to do that anyway? I do. The playback results are visually so much better.

Every scripted TV show that is broadcast is sourced from 23.976 edited material and broadcast hard coded. The only exception that I have found (I'm sure there are others) are that shows like Game of Thrones on HBO, which are sent out soft telecined. But, editing programs like VideoReDo use those flags, which results in the edited output being 29.97 with hard telecine. I do not think I've ever recoded video that was soft telecined. All my videos go thru VideoReDo, so I've never had any weird results with recoding.You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.

Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.

[Lathe]

You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.

Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.

That's good to keep in mind, thanks JD. I don't quite have a handle on all this telecining yet, but from what I've heard / read so far, and what you just said, it sounds like standard DVDs (NTSC I'm guessing) from what I've seen in MediaInfo from their rips, look like they are at a 29.xxx frame rate, which I'm GUESSING the telecining has something to do with being at that frame rate and still being progressive. So, now that I know that the telecine thing is mainly related to DVDs (their captures and rips) that helps me see where it needs to be applied.

[MrVideo]

You have to be careful because the Blu-Ray standard doesn't include 720x480/576 @ 23.976 for primary video -- so to strictly meet the standard you have to include the telecining. With that said, though, I have yet to see a player that won't play it.
That is because today's Blu-ray players will play all sorts of input wrapper types and frame rates. Since the hardware will already do it, it doesn't care if the source is even Blu-rays. Probably easier to just let it play it than it is to restrict it from playing, just because it isn't in the Blu-ray standard.
Never reencoded soft telecining? That includes about 99% of all movies encoded at 720x480/576 (DVD). Telecining on HD is rare -- except maybe on video captures. I'm not sure I've ever seen it on BD sources.
I've never had any reason to take DVD video and recode for H.264. Nothing to gain from doing so. If I pull anything from DVD, it goes thru VRD, so any telecine flagging is honored.

It turns out that the Blu-ray standard does contain the ability to have 2:3 pulldown instructions for 720 and 1080 23.976 source material for 29.97 playback, depending on the connection and display type. I've certainly never seen VRD indicate that it has ever come across said material. Considering that the analog sunset clause has come about, new Blu-ray players can only have HDMI output connectors, meaning that displays have to honor 23.976 HD video.

I'm more pissed at the FCC for not shifting the audio subcarrier when color was defined, in order to keep true 30 frames/sec display rates. Where is that time machine when you really need it? :D

[MrVideo]

I don't quite have a handle on all this telecining yet, but from what I've heard / read so far, and what you just said, it sounds like standard DVDs (NTSC I'm guessing) from what I've seen in MediaInfo from their rips, look like they are at a 29.xxx frame rate, which I'm GUESSING the telecining has something to do with being at that frame rate and still being progressive.
You can't have 2:3 pulldown video and still be progressive @ 29.97 frames/sec. 2:3 pulldown @ 29.97 frames/sec requires interlaced video @ 59.94 fields/sec.

29.97p broadcast doesn't exist. Nor does 29.97p exist for Blu-ray.

[Lathe]

So, if I may please, just let me ask one thing about this...

Here are the specs basically for most of the files I will be dealing with. They are mostly captured to dvd on the fly I believe:

Video
ID : 1
ID in the original source medium : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Format settings, picture structure : Frame
Codec ID : V_MPEG2
Codec ID/Info : MPEG 1 or 2 Video
Duration : 1 h 14 min
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 4 810 kb/s
Maximum bit rate : 9 200 kb/s
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.464
Time code of first frame : 00:00:18;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
GOP, Open/Closed : Open
Stream size : 2.49 GiB (95%)
Language : English
Default : No
Forced : No

So, without all the technical stuff in the last few posts here, can you please just tell me what I should do first. I DO (I think...) want to convert them into a progressive format. I can see here that these are indeed interlaced like you said in the last post.

Do I do what Sharc suggested for the other file? Do I just import the MKV into BDRB and let it do it's inverse telecine thing like I posted before and have BDRB convert it to 1280x720 like the other file that came out so nice. That is the final format that I want these in, so that they ARE indeed Blu-ray complaint and will play normally like any other disc. I do NOT want to mess around with software players, etc. like you were talking about. I just want to end up with a nice, normal, Blu-ray complaint file. Is that what I should do then to get the file into a nice, 23.xxx progressive format so that I can get rid of all the combing, etc or whatever when it's interlaced? Then won't it be easier if I simply want to either manipulate it further using Avisynth, or just simply burn it to disc and play it on my OPPO?

Please, keep it simple... I haven't really understood all the technical complexity you guys have been talking about (yet...)

[MrVideo]

OK, I'll try and keep it within the idea of KISS.

I suspect that you are saying that these DVDs were done using a DVD recorder with the source being a TV/Cable/DBS channel. As such, you cannot tell from MediaInfo if the 29.97 video is pure video (for example from a live televised event) or contains 2:3 pulldown video. You have to physically look at the content to determine what the video format is.

Based upon the source, here are my suggestions.

1) 23.976 source to 29.97 via 2:3 pulldown (most TV scripted programming):
Do not de-interlace the material first, in order to convert it to progressive. That will totally wipe out the ability to IVTC it. Have BD-RB IVTC the input and upconvert to 720p. The normal process in AVISynth is to IVTC it first and then pass the video stream to the upconversion plugin. The end result should be a 720p that has pillar bars so the the 4:3 aspect ratio is kept.

If the source video is letterboxed, before upconversion to 720p, the 720x480 should be cropped to 720x360, so that the video will fill the 720p 16:9 frame. Otherwise you will end up with the video inside of a black box. I do not know if Jdobbs has that option available.

2) 29.97 pure video source:
There are a couple of ways to attack this, since you want 720p video, which can only be 59.94 fps and be compliant. If you deinterlace first, each resulting frame will have to be repeated in order to be 59.94 fps. Easily accomplished. But (here is where I get a little technical), deinterlacing reduces the time spacial information in half. By this I mean that with interlaced video, objects appear to move at 59.94 times a second. If you deinterlace, the objects can only move at 29.97 times a second. If you do not deinterlace, you can have the conversion program create a 720p frame from the 240 line field via interpolation. By doing that, you keep the time spatial information. I do not know what capabilities have been built into BD-RB.

It is a trade-off between deinterlacing interpolation of the two fields into a single field, or the interpolation of a single field into a single frame. I have no personal idea which is better visually, as I've never done it. I just let the TV/monitor up convert 480i video to 1080p for displaying.

A third option is to keep the 480i pure video as MPEG-2 video and burn that to the Blu-ray and let the display device handle it.

[Lathe]

OK, I'll try and keep it within the idea of KISS.

I suspect that you are saying that these DVDs were done using a DVD recorder with the source being a TV/Cable/DBS channel. As such, you cannot tell from MediaInfo if the 29.97 video is pure video (for example from a live televised event) or contains 2:3 pulldown video. You have to physically look at the content to determine what the video format is.

Based upon the source, here are my suggestions.

1) 23.976 source to 29.97 via 2:3 pulldown (most TV scripted programming):
Do not de-interlace the material first, in order to convert it to progressive. That will totally wipe out the ability to IVTC it. Have BD-RB IVTC the input and upconvert to 720p. The normal process in AVISynth is to IVTC it first and then pass the video stream to the upconversion plugin. The end result should be a 720p that has pillar bars so the the 4:3 aspect ratio is kept.

If the source video is letterboxed, before upconversion to 720p, the 720x480 should be cropped to 720x360, so that the video will fill the 720p 16:9 frame. Otherwise you will end up with the video inside of a black box. I do not know if Jdobbs has that option available.

2) 29.97 pure video source:
There are a couple of ways to attack this, since you want 720p video, which can only be 59.94 fps and be compliant. If you deinterlace first, each resulting frame will have to be repeated in order to be 59.94 fps. Easily accomplished. But (here is where I get a little technical), deinterlacing reduces the time spacial information in half. By this I mean that with interlaced video, objects appear to move at 59.94 times a second. If you deinterlace, the objects can only move at 29.97 times a second. If you do not deinterlace, you can have the conversion program create a 720p frame from the 240 line field via interpolation. By doing that, you keep the time spatial information. I do not know what capabilities have been built into BD-RB.

It is a trade-off between deinterlacing interpolation of the two fields into a single field, or the interpolation of a single field into a single frame. I have no personal idea which is better visually, as I've never done it. I just let the TV/monitor up convert 480i video to 1080p for displaying.

A third option is to keep the 480i pure video as MPEG-2 video and burn that to the Blu-ray and let the display device handle it.

Yes, thank you. I believe that I got most of that. All of the files I will be working with are movies, films, only. So, it SEEMS like your number 1 is the way to go. From the reading that I've done in the meantime, it looks like basically most NTSC DVDs are going to be this way whether a captured movie or whatever, since in all the cases that I have they have all been placed into DVD format (ISO's) So, I use MakeMKV first to create an MKV file from the ISO. I'm guessing that in just about all cases, I would likely want to use BDRB to do what you said. I guess I can always look at the result and see how it looks :)

Thanks again for taking the time to explain this!

[Sharc]

Hard-telecined stuff:
The source which Lathe uploaded in his other thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1782994#post1782994) was 2:3 hard-telecined (no pulldown flags). You can only say this by manually analyzing the stream; media info will always report such streams as interlaced which often misleads people (and tools) to blindly apply deinterlacers to hard telecined footage (why should they suspect something else....).
When you set IVTC_SELECTION=1 in the .ini, BD-RB lets you choose as dropdown menu (right click on the stream) to force IVTC on "interlaced" (in fact hard-telecined) streams. So when you are positive that the stream is in fact hard-telecined you can IVTC it; just don't apply IVTC to true interlaced content!

One still finds hard-telecined stuff as bonus material (extras) on BD's because the studios are sometimes lazy and take these from previous DVD releases, or compile hybrids of true interlaced video with telecined film .... lot from DVD-NTSC heritage.

True-interlaced:
A true interlaced 29.97i video can always be bobbed to 1280x720p@59.94fps in order to preserve the original time resolution and stay Blu-ray compliant. Bobbing instead of deinterlacing has its own cons, but QTGMC is an outstanding bobber in many respects (I prefer it over frame interpolation) -- and also use it sometimes to clean up IVTC-ed progressive material.

[MrVideo]

Bobbing instead of deinterlacing has its own cons, but QTGMC is an outstanding bobber in many respects.
Wow, I haven't heard that plugin name in a while. It is very slow, but indeed does a great job. I haven't used it in ages.

[jdobbs]

I actually prefer TIVTC to Telecide/Decimate for most sources (not all though). If I'm performing iVTC I usually try each and pick the one I think gives the clearer/stabler result. That's the reason I added both to BD-RB.

[Sharc]

I actually prefer TIVTC to Telecide/Decimate for most sources (not all though).
Ahh...., that's why you set IVTC_METHOD=1 per default.

[MrVideo]

I'm going to do a bunch of encodes using the following TFM settings:
tfm(order=1,mode=0,slow=2,display=false)
Yes, I know that the default for display is false. I have it there as a placeholder. If I spot some frames that do not look right, I can quickly change the false to true and rerun the job and look at the embedded info.

Jdobbs, What are the situations whereby you won't use TFM?

[Lathe]

Hard-telecined stuff:
The source which Lathe uploaded in his other thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1782994#post1782994) was 2:3 hard-telecined (no pulldown flags). You can only say this by manually analyzing the stream; media info will always report such streams as interlaced which often misleads people (and tools) to blindly apply deinterlacers to hard telecined footage (why should they suspect something else....).
When you set IVTC_SELECTION=1 in the .ini, BD-RB lets you choose as dropdown menu (right click on the stream) to force IVTC on "interlaced" (in fact hard-telecined) streams. So when you are positive that the stream is in fact hard-telecined you can IVTC it; just don't apply IVTC to true interlaced content!

One still finds hard-telecined stuff as bonus material (extras) on BD's because the studios are sometimes lazy and take these from previous DVD releases, or compile hybrids of true interlaced video with telecined film .... lot from DVD-NTSC heritage.

True-interlaced:
A true interlaced 29.97i video can always be bobbed to 1280x720p@59.94fps in order to preserve the original time resolution and stay Blu-ray compliant. Bobbing instead of deinterlacing has its own cons, but QTGMC is an outstanding bobber in many respects (I prefer it over frame interpolation) -- and also use it sometimes to clean up IVTC-ed progressive material.

There is a lot to this... This is very vital information, because I'm pretty sure that on one of the very first ones I tried some script on, I had assumed that it was interlaced because MediaInfo said it was, so I used BDRB decomb/blend filter. It came out 'okay', but I'm pretty sure now that it likely was as you say, hard telecined. I did 2 like that. One didn't turn out too bad (colour 'AND HOPE TO DIE') One looks pretty rough (B&W 'I ACCUSE')

I THINK that pretty much all of the films I will be trying to 'improve' are from DVD captures; So, I'm guessing that most of them will likely fall into this same category. It there a way visually to 'step through' a file frame by frame to observe whether every frame is 'combed' or interlaced looking, or if it has (if I've read correctly about telecined stuff) 3 good looking frames, and then 2 that look interlaced (or the other way around :) ) Right...?
This is VERY good to know...

[Lathe]

Just a quickie...

I tried putting a preset in as a Tweak, but it looks like BDRB ignored it. Are you not able to put an x264 preset as a Tweak?

[MrVideo]

It there a way visually to 'step through' a file frame by frame to observe whether every frame is 'combed' or interlaced looking, or if it has (if I've read correctly about telecined stuff) 3 good looking frames, and then 2 that look interlaced
You will need a program that will let you step through the file, a frame at a time and not de-interlace.. For that I use my video editing program. VLC will not let you do that. You can get it to slow down playback. But, I think VLC de-interlaces, so that doesn't help.

[jdobbs]

Just a quickie...

I tried putting a preset in as a Tweak, but it looks like BDRB ignored it. Are you not able to put an x264 preset as a Tweak?There are some tweaks that BD-RB doesn't allow -- for example, anything that would change the framerate.

You can step through a video a frame at a time with Media Player Classic (MPC) -- it is included in the BD-RB tools folder (mplayerc.exe).

[Lathe]

There are some tweaks that BD-RB doesn't allow -- for example, anything that would change the framerate.

You can step through a video a frame at a time with Media Player Classic (MPC) -- it is included in the BD-RB tools folder (mplayerc.exe).

Ah, good to know, thanks!

Thanks too, Mr. Video. Yeah, VLC will allow you to set up whether interlace is active / automatic / off and which type. But, you are right, you cannot step through a file frame by frame. I'll use MPC then and give it a try.

[Lathe]

Um... any other thought as to the 2 pass size fluctuation with BD25? Seems with LAVF it used to almost always come out to 22.95 or so. Now, it appears to be smaller a lot of the time, like around 21 Gigs.

[Sharc]

..... It there a way visually to 'step through' a file frame by frame to observe whether every frame is 'combed' or interlaced looking, or if it has (if I've read correctly about telecined stuff) 3 good looking frames, and then 2 that look interlaced (or the other way around .......
I am normally using AvsPmod (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1381211#post1381211)for this purpose. It's a very handy tool for trying out scripts and see the result immediately.

[Sharc]

@jdobbs
A question in the context of the IVTC discussion:
When incuding AVS scripts (Setup menu: "Use AVS filters during encoding") AND forcing IVTC, the custom filters are inserted before the IVTC in the final script, means the custom filters are applied to the telecined material.
Is there a way in BD-RB to swap the order, i.e. IVTC before the custom AVS filters? Or should the order be swapped automatically when forcing IVTC?

Edit:
I found the solution. One has to set the prefix r: in front of the custom filter. This puts the custom filter after the IVTC in the sequence.
(Question is perhaps still whether this swapping could/should be done automatically in this case).

[jdobbs]

Um... any other thought as to the 2 pass size fluctuation with BD25? Seems with LAVF it used to almost always come out to 22.95 or so. Now, it appears to be smaller a lot of the time, like around 21 Gigs.It really shouldn't matter. The specified bitrate is that same whether you use LAVF or any of the other frame-serving methods.

[gonca]

I am seeing references to prefixes for the AVS Editor
I knew they existed but I an seeing different prefixes mentioned that I am not familiar with; i.e. r:
I have used search and cannot find a list of all the allowed prefixes.
Is there such a list?

[jdobbs]

July 8th, 2010
- Added an AVS filter editor to the SETUP dialog. This
will allow you to add AVS filters to files. Note that
bug reports WILL NOT BE ACCEPTED when filters are in
use (as errors are almost always caused by the filter
usage). You can add "E:", "F:", "I:", or "P:" as a
prefix to a line added in the filter editor. The
prefixes represent "Extras", "Feature", "Interlaced",
and "Progressive" respectively. When specified, the
prefix will limit that filter to usage only when the
source to be encoded matches the prefix. For example,
if specifying "E:filter1()" the filter "filter1()"
would only be applied to segments that are determined
to be extras. Setting "e:i:filter2()" limits use of
"filter2()" to segments that are extras -- and are
also interlaced.
November 28th, 2011
- Added a new prefix for filter editing. By adding
the "r:" prefix, BD-RB will add the specified
filter after the resizing stage (rather than the
default of before). Note: If using more than one
prefix, the "r:" must be the last in the series. Also:

"a:" filter applies to the audio AVS
"m:" filter applies only to menus

Notes:

1. You can use either Upper or Lower case in the filter prefixes, it doesn't matter...
2. On a series disc, where there are multiple episodes -- don't use "F:" because it will only apply to the largest episode

[gonca]

Thank you

[Sharc]

@jdobbs
When I select "Use Deinterlacer on interlaced sources" (for an imported source), and set in the .ini
DEINTERLACER_TYPE=1
DB-RB aborts.

I assume it's due a script syntax error:
#Created by BD Rebuilder - v0.50.18
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files Video\DGdecNV\DGDecodeNV.dll")
DGSource("C:\TEMP\BD REBUILDER\WORKFILES\VID_00000.DGI", fieldop=0)
ConvertToYV12()
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files Video\BD_Rebuilder\tools\decomb521.dll")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false,+blend=false)
ConvertToYV12().AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
The script is ok for the other DEINTERLACER_TYPE=n

[jdobbs]

@jdobbs
When I select "Use Deinterlacer on interlaced sources" (for an imported source), and set in the .ini
DEINTERLACE_TYPE=1
DB-RB aborts.

I assume it's due a script syntax error:
#Created by BD Rebuilder - v0.50.18
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files Video\DGdecNV\DGDecodeNV.dll")
DGSource("C:\TEMP\BD REBUILDER\WORKFILES\VID_00000.DGI", fieldop=0)
ConvertToYV12()
LoadPlugin("C:\Program Files Video\BD_Rebuilder\tools\decomb521.dll")
FieldDeinterlace(blend=false,+blend=false)
ConvertToYV12().AssumeFPS(30000,1001)
The script is ok for the other DEINTERLACE_TYPE=nThat sure doesn't look right, does it? I'll look at it later today.

[Edit] Yep. I screwed the pooch on that one when I made the change. It has been fixed for the next release.

[geheim]

Any news about 3D subtitle depth??
I still loose all depth in my 3D subtitles after encoding with FRIM...

@jdobbs Could you take a look at MVCEnc from BDtoAVCHD?? Because this tool keeps 3D offsets intact after encoding. However, it cannot keep any menus, therefore I prefer using BDRebuilder.
But without 3d subtitle depth many movies don't give a pleasant view with subtitles "cutting" across picture elements...

I'd really appreciate it if you could figure out why BDtoAVCHD keeps offsets intact and BDRebuilder doesn't. I'd be very pleased if you could add an option to select a fixed offset value, no need for the original depth offsets to be kept if that is too diffcult to implement. But any depth at all would be really good for a loads of movies.

Thanks so much!!

[Lathe]

I am normally using AvsPmod (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1381211#post1381211)for this purpose. It's a very handy tool for trying out scripts and see the result immediately.

Yes, thanks, I do have that but I've not tried it out yet.

BTW, I'm glad you mentioned about AVS script running BEFORE the IVTC! I did not know this because sometimes I want to add filters, but I want to do it AFTER the IVTC is done. Hmmm...

So what is with the 'r'? Where exactly do you put it. Say I wanted to use Sharpen(.3), where would I put the 'r'? Would I enter the text in the Avisynth code area of BDRB like this: 'r Sharpen(.3)'...?

Oh, also, would I need to add an 'r' before each line of script?