BD Rebuilder Beta - Bug Reports Only

[jdobbs]

Did you try Lav filters and see if it works for you, it has decoder and splitter builtin.They're Directshow filters, or AVISYNTH filters? Where do I get them?

[jdobbs]

I know, aq mode can not be used with PSNR.
A test with computer animated cartoon.

x265 - preset slow - crf 22 - 1229.71 kb/s > psnr = 47.847
x264 - preset slow - crf 18 - 2759.39 kb/s > psnr = 47.834

In "theory" we have achieved the same quality at half the bitrate. :scared:
I did not know that the X265 had already reached this level.That's odd. I ran a whole battery of tests. In all my tests the same CRF value gave approximately the same PSNR in x264 & x265 -- but with x265 giving a 30% or so smaller file size. I didn't use "--preset slow", however.

With a CRF of 22 I got an average PSNR of 47.58 with x264 and 47.72 with x265. Interesting that using the slow preset somehow seems to have made the CRF results diverge.

[sonate]

1080p is certainly adequate for me, presently. But I'll likely be in the market during tax time, for a 3D display. Might as well get a 4K display at the same time ;) I'm probably also upgrading my Nvidia GPU. I believe my encodes would benefit from it ;)

Just crossed my mind, I will be building a new computer as mine is very old. BD rebuilder encodes are flawless but they take forever. Not wanting to hyjack the forum, but any suggestions you or anyone else has for a best bang for the buck CPU and main board chipset which functions well with BD reb will be very much appreciated.

[HWK]

They're Directshow filters, or AVISYNTH filters? Where do I get them?

Jdobbs, you can find more info on LAV at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191

I am not sure if it serve purpose but worth a look.

[Sharc]

That's odd. I ran a whole battery of tests. In all my tests the same CRF value gave approximately the same PSNR in x264 & x265 -- but with x265 giving a 30% or so smaller file size. I didn't use "--preset slow", however.

With a CRF of 22 I got an average PSNR of 47.58 with x264 and 47.72 with x265. Interesting that using the slow preset somehow seems to have made the CRF results diverge.
For a "movie type" test clip I got the same PSNR value of 40.06x (with psy and aq disabled) for:-
a1. x264 --crf 27.0 --preset slow => filesize 14969 kB
a2. x264 --crf 26.9 --preset medium => filesize 16306 kB
b1. x265 --crf 26.9 --preset faster => filesize 8174 kB (55% of a1.)
b2. x265 --crf 28.5 --preset medium => filesize 8579 kB (57% of a1.)

Surprisingly, b1. has visually (on PC monitor) the edge to my eyes, but differences are minor. b2. seems to soften most. I included bilinearresize(1280,720) in all the tests for encoding speed reasons, but I think the PSNR comparison should nevertheless be valid (?).

[jdobbs]

Jdobbs, you can find more info on LAV at http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191

I am not sure if it serve purpose but worth a look.I know libde265 is based on LAV. I was just wondering if there was a better option.

[jdobbs]

For a "movie type" test clip I got the same PSNR value of 40.06x (with psy and aq disabled) for:-
a1. x264 --crf 27.0 --preset slow => filesize 14969 kB
a2. x264 --crf 26.9 --preset medium => filesize 16306 kB
b1. x265 --crf 26.9 --preset faster => filesize 8174 kB (55% of a1.)
b2. x265 --crf 28.5 --preset medium => filesize 8579 kB (57% of a1.)

Surprisingly, b1. has visually (on PC monitor) the edge to my eyes, but differences are minor. b2. seems to soften most. I included bilinearresize(1280,720) in all the tests for encoding speed reasons, but I think the PSNR comparison should nevertheless be valid (?).Cool. Thanks.

[Kurtnoise]

I know libde265 is based on LAV. I was just wondering if there was a better option.
Not at all...libde265 has been created from scratch and is completely different from lav filters.

[jdobbs]

Not at all...libde265 has been created from scratch and is completely different from lav filters.Hmm... when I go into the Video Configuration dialog it says "Select which formats LAV Video should decode:" -- so I assumed it was based on LAV. The splitter configuration and the audio configuration both also reference LAV.

[Kurtnoise]

you meant the dshow filter ? ok, you're right, sorry...I thought you are using directly the library.

[jdobbs]

you meant the dshow filter ? ok, you're right, sorry...I thought you are using directly the library.Yes, I was referring to the directshow filter.

I've just installed LAVFilters-0.62, and it pretty much eliminated any problems I'm having. Hopefully it will also eliminate BD-RB's need for FFDSHOW and HAALI. Still testing.

[HWK]

@ Jdobbs,
Finger crossed I hope so.

Anyways I have begun test on 4K source with crf 20 and tune psnr and will post results once done.

[jdobbs]

@ Jdobbs,
Finger crossed I hope so.

Anyways I have begun test on 4K source with crf 20 and tune psnr and will post results once done.I see what you mean about the seeking/blockiness (until the next I frame) with the LAVFilters. But that really shouldn't affect BD-RB, as it will run the encode end-to-end without any seeking.

[HWK]

That's odd. I ran a whole battery of tests. In all my tests the same CRF value gave approximately the same PSNR in x264 & x265 -- but with x265 giving a 30% or so smaller file size. I didn't use "--preset slow", however.

With a CRF of 22 I got an average PSNR of 47.58 with x264 and 47.72 with x265. Interesting that using the slow preset somehow seems to have made the CRF results diverge.

I am thinking may be it has do with setting used, when preset changes to slow.

I have posted link to preset values for x264 and x265 and what get applied when different presets are used.

X265 Preset (http://x265.readthedocs.org/en/latest/presets.html)
X264 Preset (http://dev.beandog.org/x264_preset_reference.html)

[soneca]

In all conversions using the X265 (default) there is always a lack of clarity in relation to the original material, as a noise filter was applied.
And a source more "soft" is much easier to compress...

[HWK]

Common between x264 and x265

--crf 20 --input-res 3846x2160 --fps 24000/1001 --input-csp i420 --preset medium
Raw source from camera under variety of conditions, subjects and detail.

X264
--output "F:\Sample 4k UHD.264"
Bitrate average 15252.11kb/s
PSNR Mean Y 49.575 | U 53.574 | V 53.628
PSNR Average 50.518
Final output size 488 MB

X265
--output "F:\Sample 4k UHD.hevc"
Bitrate average 10731.20kb/s
PSNR Mean Y 47.923 | U 51.312 | V 51.327
PSNR Average 48.773
Final output size 339 MB

http://i59.tinypic.com/2dh77o2.png http://i58.tinypic.com/ac7r0y.png

4K animation and results (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1694331#post1694331)

[AmigaFuture]

I do agree. Blu-ray is very cool...even 2D. I'm not excited at all about 3D. 4K seems cool, for capacity only...to me. I'm very happy with Blu-ray resolution 1080p. My HDTV, LG BD Player (Own 3 now..that don't have Cinavia) etc, etc..are cool. DVD and BD are a great break from VHS and (Better) Betamax..

Anyway....

Has anyone noticed this happening? While BD-RB was producing an MKV, and reencoding the AC3..I stopped it and changed the AC3 settings in SETUP, then started the Alternate output again. Then, I clicked aborted...not really noticing where...and changed the settings back in SETUP for AC3, then started the MKV output again...then after a few moments, I decided I wanted to check something..and aborted the process (Not noticing where..). Then attempted to resume the MKV output again...and BD-RB prompted the BD directory isn't there (Not a valid BD)...and I thought, "What!!?" When I browsed for it..it's not there! It's on a Local SSD. Using Undelete software I see the directory structure was deleted somehow. After the Undelete is finished, I'll check the File System..
The program is currently recovering to it another drive, because I want to make sure the SSD is OKAY and the data is intact. Anyway, I'm curious if anyone else has encountered that while using BD-RB....or any other software? I AM wondering if I discovered a "flaw" with SSDs......????

Thanks.

[Racer]

One short question. Is it actually possible since a couple versions of BD rebuilder that the selection of the x264 presets using automatic quality was changed. Actually I thought in the past BD rebuilder used "ultrafast" for BD-9 most time, now it is more "faster" ? Is this possible or did I change something in the settings? Thanks!

[Sharc]

One short question. Is it actually possible since a couple versions of BD rebuilder that the selection of the x264 presets using automatic quality was changed. Actually I thought in the past BD rebuilder used "ultrafast" for BD-9 most time, now it is more "faster" ? Is this possible or did I change something in the settings? Thanks!
It is well possible and makes totally sense. The decision depends on the source. If a source requires more compression because the movie has a longer duration for example, BD-RB will decide for a slower setting like "faster" instead of "ultrafast".

[Sharc]

I did the same "high compression" tests as here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694139&postcount=21156)but with a different clip this time.

Clip2: 1920x1080 blu-ray; original (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694101&postcount=89) file size 114'912 kB

Resized to 1280x720:
a1. x264 --crf 24.1 --preset slow => file size 809 kB (100%), PSNR 46.583, encoding speed 30.86 fps
a2. x264 --crf 23.6 --preset medium => file size 882 kB (109%), PSNR 46.585, encoding speed 41.61 fps
b1. X265 --crf 27.0 --preset faster => file size 492 kB (56%), PSNR 46.594, encoding speed 24.05 fps
b2. x265 --crf 23.95 --preset medium => file size 448 kB (55%), PSNR 46.608, encoding speed 13.26 fps

b1. is the overall winner for me when going for high compression and "good quality" at affordable encoding speed. I am still sceptical about the true benefits of stronger presets than "faster" for x265 at the current stage. If retention of details and fine grain are the prime target one may stick to x264 at the expense of larger file sizes though. This may change of course with future improvements of x265.
My impression is based on watching on PC monitor only. It may look different on large TV or projector, I don't know....

[Edit:]
I didn't crop the black borders of clip 2. This tends to bias the PSNR to high values. The comparision should however still be valid as the condition was the same for all tests.

[musiclover]

Time difference between PAL and NTSC

A strange thing happened when I imported a PAL flv-source and transfered it into a PAL dvd-5. The run time of the source is 1'20"09, but after conversion I got a PAL dvd which runs for 1'23"34. You see the time difference reflects the PAL/NTSC ratio of 25/23.976. Since it is a concert movie the sound slowing down could be a hinderance.


Here are the logs
----------------------
[10:08:07] Importing FLV: BBC_IPLAYER_-_RADIO_2_LIVE_IN_HYDE_PARK_-_2014_JEFF_LYNNE'S_ELO
- Preparing FLV for processing...
- Collecting audio/video streams from source...
- Converting audio, Track #2, AAC to AC3...
- Building pseudo-BD source structure...
[10:09:58] Video import completed successfully.
----------------------
[09-20-14] BD Rebuilder v0.48.05 (beta)
[10:11:23] Source: BBC_IPLAYER_-_RADIO_2_LIVE_IN_HYDE_PARK_-_2014_JEFF_LYNNE'S_ELO_00000
- Input BD size: 1.00 GB
- Approximate total content: [01:23:34.048]
- Windows Version: 6.1 [7601]
- MOVIE-ONLY/ALTERNATE OUTPUT mode enabled
- Mode: DVD-5, 720x480/576, AC3 Audio
- Decoding/Frame serving: DirectShow
- Audio Settings: AC3=1 DTS=1 HD=0 Kbs=640
[10:11:28] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [10:11:28] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [10:11:28] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [10:11:58] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 720x480
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 120,217 frames
- Bitrate: 6,973 Kbs
- [10:11:58] Reencoding: VID_00000
- [10:57:42] Video Encode complete
- [10:57:42] Processing audio tracks
- Track 4352 (und): Reencoding audio to AC3...
[10:58:19]PHASE ONE complete
[10:58:19]PHASE TWO - Rebuild Started
- [10:58:19] Building ALTERNATE OUTPUT Structure
- [10:58:19] Starting MPLEX.
- [11:00:25] Building DVD File Structure.
[11:04:57] - Encode and Rebuild complete
[11:04:57] JOB: BBC_IPLAYER_-_RADIO_2_LIVE_IN_HYDE_PARK_-_2014_JEFF_LYNNE'S_ELO finished.
----------------------

And here is the ini

[Options]
VERSION=0.48.0.5
MODE=3
ENCODE_QUALITY=0
ONEPASS_ENCODING=2
AUTO_QUALITY=1
TARGET_SIZE=23500
AUDIO_TO_KEEP=all
SUBS_TO_KEEP=all
SD_CONVERT=0
OPEN_GOP=0
RESIZE_1080=0
RESIZE_1440=0
RESIZE_720=0
DEINTERLACE=1
SD_TO_1080=0
CONVERT_WIDE=0
DTS_REENCODE=1
AC3_REENCODE=1
AC3_640=1
AC3_192=0
KEEP_HD_AUDIO=0
AVCHD=0
REMOVE_WORKFILES=0
MOVIE_ONLY_LOOP=0
REMOVE_OUTPUT=0
USE_FILTERS=0
BDMV_CERT_ONLY=0
USE_LAVF=0
IVTC_PULLDOWN=0
ASSUME_DVD_PAL=1
UNMASK_CHAPTER=0
COMPLETION_BEEP=0
DGDECNV=0
OUTPUT_3D=0
NEROAAC=1
AUDIO_TRACK_LIMIT=0
SUBTITLE_TRACK_LIMIT=0
CUSTOM_TARGET_SIZE=23500
MOVIEONLY_TYPE=1
ALTCRF=23
ALT_TARGET=1024
ALTMETHOD=1
ALTAUTOCROP=0
ENABLE_TEST=1
SUPTITLE=0
ENABLE_BLANKING=0
MENU_BACKGROUND=C:\BD Rebuilder\BD_Rebuilder\misc\menuback.jpg
IMPORT_THRESHOLD=15
QUICK_PLAY_THRESHOLD=10
MENU_AUTO_BACKGROUND=1
MENU_PLAY_SEQUENTIAL=0
MENU_START_WITH_MENU=1
QUICK_EXTRAS=0
IGNORE_3D=0
OUTPUT_SBS=0
AUTO_BURN=0
FRIMSOURCE=0
ENCODER=0
MOVIE_ONLY_LOOP=0
DGDECIM=0
DECODER=0
WIDE_PERCENT=100
WIDE_OFFSET=1
FORCE_NOENCODE=0
[Paths]
WORKING_PATH=F:\WORK\
NeroAACPath=C:\BD Rebuilder\NeroAACCodec-1.5.1\win32\neroAacEnc.exe
SOURCE_PATH=F:\WORK\IMPORTS\BBC_IPLAYER_-_RADIO_2_LIVE_IN_HYDE_PARK_-_2014_JEFF_LYNNE'S_ELO\
DGIndexIM=C:\BD Rebuilder\BD_Rebuilder\Tools\DGIndexIM.exe
DGDecIM=C:\BD Rebuilder\BD_Rebuilder\Tools\DGDecodeIM.dll
------------------------------------------------------------

MediaInfo on source file
General
Complete name : \\pc1\disc F\BBC iPlayer - Radio 2 Live in Hyde Park - 2014 Jeff Lynne's ELO.flv
Format : Flash Video
File size : 864 MiB
Duration : 1h 20mn
Overall bit rate : 1 508 Kbps

Video
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames
Codec ID : 7
Duration : 1h 20mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Nominal bit rate : 1 404 Kbps
Width : 832 pixels
Height : 468 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.144

Audio
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 10
Duration : 1h 20mn
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
----------------------------------------------------------

Could this be a bug?

[jdobbs]

One short question. Is it actually possible since a couple versions of BD rebuilder that the selection of the x264 presets using automatic quality was changed. Actually I thought in the past BD rebuilder used "ultrafast" for BD-9 most time, now it is more "faster" ? Is this possible or did I change something in the settings? Thanks!The algorithm hasn't changed. "Ultrafast" is never chosen automatically -- but it can be chosen by picking "High-Speed Option (BD-25+)" from the menu.

[jdobbs]

I did the same "high compression" tests as here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694139&postcount=21156)but with a different clip this time.

Clip2: 1920x1080 blu-ray; original (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694101&postcount=89) file size 114'912 kB

Resized to 1280x720:
a1. x264 --crf 24.1 --preset slow => file size 809 kB (100%), PSNR 46.583, encoding speed 30.86 fps
a2. x264 --crf 23.6 --preset medium => file size 882 kB (109%), PSNR 46.585, encoding speed 41.61 fps
b1. X265 --crf 27.0 --preset faster => file size 492 kB (56%), PSNR 46.594, encoding speed 24.05 fps
b2. x265 --crf 23.95 --preset medium => file size 448 kB (55%), PSNR 46.608, encoding speed 13.26 fps

b1. is the overall winner for me when going for high compression and "good quality" at affordable encoding speed. I am still sceptical about the true benefits of stronger presets than "faster" for x265 at the current stage. If retention of details and fine grain are the prime target one may stick to x264 at the expense of larger file sizes though. This may change of course with future improvements of x265.
My impression is based on watching on PC monitor only. It may look different on large TV or projector, I don't know....

[Edit:]
I didn't crop the black borders of clip 2. This tends to bias the PSNR to high values. The comparision should however still be valid as the condition was the same for all tests.The introduction of smoothing (loss of fine grain an detail) should lower the PSNR. PSNR compares every pixel for differences, and the differences are noise.

[jdobbs]

Time difference between PAL and NTSC

A strange thing happened when I imported a PAL flv-source and transfered it into a PAL dvd-5. The run time of the source is 1'20"09, but after conversion I got a PAL dvd which runs for 1'23"34. You see the time difference reflects the PAL/NTSC ratio of 25/23.976. Since it is a concert movie the sound slowing down could be a hinderance.It's not a bug. A 23.976 source is not legal on DVD, so it has to be converted to 25fps (for PAL). On NTSC it has to be converted to 29.97 -- but it is done with pulldown. There's no choice. I believe it's the same method used on commercial discs when converting from 24fps film. By using Avisynth's TimeStretch() function you can stretch the audio without affecting the pitch. I could probably put in an option to add a frame every second instead -- but I'm not sure how good that would look.

Do you hear a difference? You shouldn't be able to.

[daberti]

Yes, I was referring to the directshow filter.

I've just installed LAVFilters-0.62, and it pretty much eliminated any problems I'm having. Hopefully it will also eliminate BD-RB's need for FFDSHOW and HAALI. Still testing.

Should you recommend installing 0.62 64Bit or the 32Bit on my 64Bit W7?

I'm doing some SSIM testing (x264 vs x265) right now. I'll publish the result here before late evening.

[musiclover]

It's not a bug. A 23.976 source is not legal on DVD, so it has to be converted to 25fps (for PAL). On NTSC it has to be converted to 29.97 -- but it is done with pulldown. There's no choice. I believe it's the same method used on commercial discs when converting from 24fps film. By using Avisynth's TimeStretch() function you can stretch the audio without affecting the pitch. I could probably put in an option to add a frame every second instead -- but I'm not sure how good that would look.

Do you hear a difference? You shouldn't be able to.

No I don't hear a difference.

But my point was that the source (the flv file I imported) was PAL with 25 fps and NOT NTSC. See the MediaInfo at the end of my previous post. Besides I downloaded it from BBC and they make only PAL video's.

Maybe my question should be: How do I make a PAL pseudo bd from a PAL source?

[Racer]

The algorithm hasn't changed. "Ultrafast" is never chosen automatically -- but it can be chosen by picking "High-Speed Option (BD-25+)" from the menu.

Thanks for the info. Is there also a hiddenopt for setting "--lookahead-threads", I have only found THREADS=n. Thanks!

[daberti]

Some SSIM info, movie is Blade Runner (Final Cut 2009 EU Edition), Chapter 2 (4'38")

Codec;CRF Value;Codec Preset;SSIM Value;SSIM dB;Bitrate;
x264;20;1 Ultrafast;0.9798061;16.948(dB);16034.18 (kb/s);
x264;20;2 Superfast;0.9826496;17.607(dB);12372.08 (kb/s);
x264;20;3 Veryfast;0.9767451;16.335(dB);5985.80 (kb/s);
x264;20;4 Faster;0.9757283;16.149(dB);5417.22 (kb/s);
x264;20;5 Fast;0.9780750;16.591(dB);6083.54 (kb/s);
x264;20;6 Medium;0.9751578;16.048(dB);4990.88 (kb/s);

x265;20;1 Ultrafast;0.970661;15.326(dB);3944.24 (kb/s);
x265;20;2 Superfast;0.973011;15.688(dB);3946.04 (kb/s);
x265;20;3 Veryfast;0.976775;16.340(dB);5814.17 (kb/s);
x265;20;4 Faster;0.976774;16.340(dB);5632.06 (kb/s);
x265;20;5 Fast;0.971429;15.441(dB);2740.14 (kb/s);
x265;20;6 Medium;0.971805;15.498(dB);2894.58 (kb/s);

[soneca]

The introduction of smoothing (loss of fine grain an detail) should lower the PSNR. PSNR compares every pixel for differences, and the differences are noise.

Smoothing the source there were two results.
And depend on the source, the result can vary widely.

Using the X265 slightly lowered the PSNR.

normal > encoded 1473 frames in 658.54s (2.24 fps), 30820.32 kb/s, Global PSNR: 40.191
smooth > encoded 1473 frames in 653.69s (2.25 fps), 28360.36 kb/s, Global PSNR: 40.111

But here using the x264 PSNR slightly increased.

normal > encoded 68543 frames, 33.03 fps, 5303.02 kb/s
PSNR Mean Y:42.517 U:48.075 V:48.514 Avg:43.617 Global:42.491

smooth > encoded 68543 frames, 28.27 fps, 4708.95 kb/s
PSNR Mean Y:42.289 U:46.283 V:46.544 Avg:43.233 Global:42.543

[Sharc]

The introduction of smoothing (loss of fine grain an detail) should lower the PSNR. PSNR compares every pixel for differences, and the differences are noise.
Yes, agree. In my tests I tried to nail the PSNR at a fix value by changing the --crf and --preset for x264 and x265.
Anyway, I found the size reduction compared to the original amazing for obtaining a "watchable" results. x265 eventually ending up at about 55% of x264 for virtually the same PSNR and much the same (subjective) viewing impression.
(I disabled aq and psy for my tests).

P.S.
Any experience around about how many dB's of PSNR difference are noticed when watching a movie? 3dB?
In family-internal blind tests I got complaints only when some blocks popped up -- even though the PSNR was pretty good.... LOL.

[jdobbs]

No I don't hear a difference.

But my point was that the source (the flv file I imported) was PAL with 25 fps and NOT NTSC. See the MediaInfo at the end of my previous post. Besides I downloaded it from BBC and they make only PAL video's.

Maybe my question should be: How do I make a PAL pseudo bd from a PAL source?According to the log it isn't PAL, it says it is 23.376fps. [10:11:28] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [10:11:28] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [10:11:28] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [10:11:58] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 720x480
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 120,217 frames
- Bitrate: 6,973 KbsNo conversions are performed during IMPORT, so I'm confused as to how it could have changed. You don't happen to have IMPORT_PAL_TO_FILM=1 set in your Config/INI do you? That would put flags in the PSEUDO.INF file to tell the reencode to convert it.

I don't have any 25fps FLV files to test... I'll see if I can create one.

[jdobbs]

Smoothing the source there were two results.
And depend on the source, the result can vary widely.

Using the X265 slightly lowered the PSNR.

normal > encoded 1473 frames in 658.54s (2.24 fps), 30820.32 kb/s, Global PSNR: 40.191
smooth > encoded 1473 frames in 653.69s (2.25 fps), 28360.36 kb/s, Global PSNR: 40.111

But here using the x264 PSNR slightly increased.

normal > encoded 68543 frames, 33.03 fps, 5303.02 kb/s
PSNR Mean Y:42.517 U:48.075 V:48.514 Avg:43.617 Global:42.491

smooth > encoded 68543 frames, 28.27 fps, 4708.95 kb/s
PSNR Mean Y:42.289 U:46.283 V:46.544 Avg:43.233 Global:42.543Yeah, a lowering of the PSNR is what you'd expect. Even in your x264 example both the average and the mean PSNR dropped.

Yeah, I think the source could make a huge difference. A source that is already smooth (like computer animation) probably wouldn't show as much of a drop with smoothing on, while a grainy film source would.

[Toilet-Duck]

Serious issues with latest beta 48.05 !!!

1. Audio / video from output is out of sync using default settings (directshowresource ... )

↑ this has been for an long time going on !!
with every revision up to 48.x i have to change settings to fix sync problem !!

2. Preview using the mpc tool that came with the bdrebuilder package is SLOW AS HELLL !!! Seek times are TERRIBLE SLOW !!!


in a nutshell, just reverted back to the previous version 47.07 and all is swell again !!

Just saying , i don't think its something with my system or missing software components that are needed to work in tandem with bdrebuilder !!


cherriepoopers,
toiletduck

[Ch3vr0n]

Then somethings wrong with your system. 48.05 works just fine here, you also claim "it's bad" yet you provide ZERO logs for your supposedly out of sync discs. Sorry but we don't have a crystal ball to magically guess and solve your problem. Reverting back to 47.07 doesn't help you either, it may have issues that could affect newer discs, bugs that are fixed in newer versions and well it won't last forever. Every version has a built in expiration timer for precisely those reasons, at some point you'll HAVE to use a newer version

[omegaman7]

Toilet-Duck... that's really not the best way to get the programmers attention. And like Ch3vr0n said, no logs = very difficult to diagnose the problem.

[Toilet-Duck]

Then somethings wrong with your system. 48.05 works just fine here, you also claim "it's bad" yet you provide ZERO logs for your supposedly out of sync discs. Sorry but we don't have a crystal ball to magically guess and solve your problem. Reverting back to 47.07 doesn't help you either, it may have issues that could affect newer discs, bugs that are fixed in newer versions and well it won't last forever. Every version has a built in expiration timer for precisely those reasons, at some point you'll HAVE to use a newer version

First, sorry no logs... my explenation should suffice i'"d say..

Furthermore, my system is and always has been running just fine and in MINT condition for pretty much all of the stuff i have been doing ... i.e photo editing, video editing (After effects CC) etc etc..

You name it , i got it..

Again, if it woud be my system all along i woud have had 1, or more of the same issues with versions prior to 48.xx , isnt it ?

No its pretty much clear to me its an DArn BUG ready to be squashed buzzz !!

Also, i have mentioned that the out of sync issue happends with ALL THE MOVIES ... OLD AND/OR NEW !!

bdrebuilder makes no distinction for that matter!

And now, preview / seek times in mpc is broken too (though mpc is the same revision as the one used in 47.xx !!)

Sound, is distorted too if i use Pass through for bitstreams !!!
Fortunately i did found an sollution for that too ...

But, to make bdrebuilder to work i had to change allots of default settings !!!


EDIT: now that you mentioned about the expiration date, thats just illogicall to put that in the programming !!!

Yes, i have got the message awhile back while i wos on 47.07 that it has expired.

Guess what, iam back in business with 47.07..

disabling an freeware app after a certain amount of time is just foolish and counter productive !!

Updates do tend to break things more often instead of fixing them more and more lately !!!
So, reverting back / downgrade is often the only sollution to get everything to work again !!


cherriepoppers,
toiletduck

[Ch3vr0n]

Your explanation does not suffice, period. Your system discs specs are irrelevant, your settings of the helper tools aren't. The log contains entries for starters about you're ffdshow settings, version used, ... If even one of those settings is of it could cause your issues. No log, no help. Whether movie is new or old doesn't matter. And about the timer, it's logical. That is fine intentional to stop people using old versions that contains bugs that are fixed in never versions. One of the requirements to get help is to use the latest version. So you have the choice. Post a log from an encode with the LA latest version and the inspect results or no help. It's that simple. As you say 'it's a bug that needs to be squashed', well perhaps it is, but how can jdobbs potentially fix it if you refuse to use the latest version needed and provide the log info be needs to do so. It's up to you! The ball is in your court.

Verstuurd vanaf mijn Nexus 7 met Tapatalk

[varekai]

@Toilet-Duck

Your two (2) post has to be the dumbest I've seen in a long while...
Btw, BDRB 48.05 works like a charm on my machine! :D

[musiclover]

According to the log it isn't PAL, it says it is 23.376fps. [10:11:28] PHASE ONE, Encoding
- [10:11:28] Processing: VID_00000 (1 of 1)
- [10:11:28] Extracting A/V streams [VID_00000]
- [10:11:58] Reencoding video [VID_00000]
- Source Video: MPEG-4 (AVC), 720x480
- Rate/Length: 23.976fps, 120,217 frames
- Bitrate: 6,973 KbsNo conversions are performed during IMPORT, so I'm confused as to how it could have changed. You don't happen to have IMPORT_PAL_TO_FILM=1 set in your Config/INI do you? That would put flags in the PSEUDO.INF file to tell the reencode to convert it.

I don't have any 25fps FLV files to test... I'll see if I can create one.


No, I don't have IMPORT_PAL_TO_FILM=1 set in my ini as you can see in my previous post. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694268&postcount=21172

[jdobbs: Edited out link]

[Toilet-Duck]

Upon further investigation i noticed that mpc (for preview) is acting funny all of an sudden only when i choose x264 internal lavf as frame server in bdrb 48.xx !!

Very long and slow seek times, no audio etc etc...!!!

mpc plays nice only when using the default setting directshowresource as frame server !!! and all of the above problems fades away like snow under the sun !!

But then again, using default settings directshow as frameserver results in out of sync movies every time !!!

Infact, while preview my project in mpc the video clips already play out of sync !!

Now, i have used and are still using mpc + x264 internal as frame server for preview and encode in bdrb 47.xx because of this nuicance in bdrb48 and never experience any of this !!

iam sure you don't need any logs to reproduce this phenomen.


cherriepoopers,
toiletduck

[jdobbs]

Upon further investigation i noticed that mpc (for preview) is acting funny all of an sudden only when i choose x264 internal lavf as frame server in bdrb 48.xx !!

Very long and slow seek times, no audio etc etc...!!!

mpc plays nice only when using the default setting directshowresource as frame server !!! and all of the above problems fades away like snow under the sun !!

But then again, using default settings directshow as frameserver results in out of sync movies every time !!!

Infact, while preview my project in mpc the video clips already play out of sync !!

Now, i have used and are still using mpc + x264 internal as frame server for preview and encode in bdrb 47.xx because of this nuicance in bdrb48 and never experience any of this !!

iam sure you don't need any logs to reproduce this phenomen.


cherriepoopers,
toiletduckOut of sync problems are always caused by the same thing. Something on your system has intercepted, overridden, or interfered with the FFDSHOW directshow filters. If you have any "CODEC Packs", remove them. Then reinstall FFDSHOW, HAALI, and AVISYNTH.

When the software works on everyone's system but yours... that oughta' be a clue. Continually posting that you are right, while refusing the advice of experienced users, doesn't make you any less wrong.

[jdobbs]

No, I don't have IMPORT_PAL_TO_FILM=1 set in my ini as you can see in my previous post. http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1694268&postcount=21172

[jdobbs: Edited out link]I've created a file that I can use to debug. I edited out the link because I want to make sure we're not inadvertently posting links to copyrighted material.

[Edit] Ok, I created a file that matched yours and here's what I found. Yes, the original was 25fps... but it's horizontal resolution was greater than 720 and less than 1280. So BD-RB decided to flag it (in PSEUDO.INF) to resizeto 1280x720 in order to not lose any of its resolution. The problem then becomes: 1280x720@25fps is not a legal BD combination. So it has to either convert to 50fps by doubling/repeating frames (which is a waste of bandwidth) or to convert to 23.976fps. It chose to do the latter, which it considered to be the lesser of two evils.

[worknstiff]

@ jdobbs RE: According to the log it isn't PAL, it says it is 23.376fps.

I can also confirm (at least on my system using almost stock .ini) that the latest versions of BD Rebuilder are not detecting or processing 25 fps mkv's correctly. If you need logs, I can post those too. Here are my images:

http://i61.tinypic.com/29az503.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/2iuxj48.jpg

http://i61.tinypic.com/hv3xx2.jpg

[Sharc]

Isn't the problem that 1280x720p25 is neither DVD (resolution) nor Blu-ray (framerate) compliant? What should BD-RB do with it? Convert to 1280x720p50 by duplicating frames (which produces little overhead), or applying 2:1 pulldown which AFAIK has possibly still issues with tsMuxeR (?). Or just re-issue a "non-compliant" stream?

[worknstiff]

@ Sharc RE: Or just re-issue a "non-compliant" stream?

Yeah, I'll vote for that alternative. I would of course prefer changing it to 23.976, if it could be done without making it out of sync or causing it to have jerky playback. I wish there was an easy solution for perfect NTSC playback, but until then my Oppo will play 25fps very nicely.

[veggav]

Hey I've made a few changes on my FFDShow so it uses MadVR.

That and a few more changes.
Does that make any difference for BD Rebuilder?

[jdobbs]

@ Sharc RE: Or just re-issue a "non-compliant" stream?

Yeah, I'll vote for that alternative. I would of course prefer changing it to 23.976, if it could be done without making it out of sync or causing it to have jerky playback. I wish there was an easy solution for perfect NTSC playback, but until then my Oppo will play 25fps very nicely.That's not going to happen. Standards are there for a reason, and BD-RB will not create non-compliant BDs. End of discussion.

BD Rebuilder are not detecting or processing 25 fps mkv's correctly That is an incorrect statement. BD-RB is properly handling it. But if the source is garbage because of it's non-standard resolution -- BD-RB can only do its best to correct it.

[Toilet-Duck]

Out of sync problems are always caused by the same thing. Something on your system has intercepted, overridden, or interfered with the FFDSHOW directshow filters. If you have any "CODEC Packs", remove them. Then reinstall FFDSHOW, HAALI, and AVISYNTH.

When the software works on everyone's system but yours... that oughta' be a clue. Continually posting that you are right, while refusing the advice of experienced users, doesn't make you any less wrong.

I told it a zilion times before, i got arround the desync problem by adjusting an setting in bdrb.

Now if it were my system causing this or some settings in the helptools then i / bdrb wouldnt have succeeded in making an flawless bd50 → bd25 backups regardless of what settings i have used in bdrb now is it ?

U lost me there !!

Again, i haven't changed anything in my system apart from re-installing ffdshow, haali etc etc like you suggested but that didn't fixed the desync issue bdrb have only when using the default frame server bdrb!!

AGain, when i change that to another frameserver the output of my projects DO PLAY INFACT ALL NICE IN SYNC . i repeat ALL of my MOVIE PROJECTS are done properly and play just nice ...

But ONLY when i change default settings in rebuilder .. *sighn* !!
I haven't → touched ANY SETTINGS ← in the help tools , all help tools were installed and used with the default settings appart from the settings in bdrb!!


edit: you keep saying that your bdrb updates don't break things and only improves the software mkay...

as iam the only one having this issue with bdrb 48 you say between the lines!!

Maybe just Maybe, iam the only 1 reporting this here just because ppl know how futile it is to post results and therefor trying to convince you that there possible is an bug involved in the programming !!

Also, if the app is so perfect why i do read many posts from members which not the least of all "chevron" stating that he/she went back to an previous beta release because of problems that has occured and couldnt be resolved unless he went back to an older build to accomplish an succesfull project.

Weird enough, i didn't read any reply from you @chevrons telling that his/her misconfigured system must be causing this !!



cherriepoppers,
toiletduck

[musiclover]

, I created a file that matched yours and here's what I found. Yes, the original was 25fps... but it's horizontal resolution was greater than 720 and less than 1280. So BD-RB decided to flag it (in PSEUDO.INF) to resize to 1280x720 in order to not lose any of its resolution. The problem then becomes: 1280x720@25fps is not a legal BD combination. So it has to either convert to 50fps by doubling/repeating frames (which is a waste of bandwidth) or to convert to 23.976fps. It chose to do the latter, which it considered to be the lesser of two evils.

Thank you for the explanation. I had no idea of all the difficulties involved in PAL/NTSC conversion and all the different sizes there are.

[jdobbs]

I told it a zilion times before, i got arround the desync problem by adjusting an setting in bdrb.

Now if it were my system causing this or some settings in the helptools then i / bdrb wouldnt have succeeded in making an flawless bd50 → bd25 backups regardless of what settings i have used in bdrb now is it ?

U lost me there !!

Again, i haven't changed anything in my system apart from re-installing ffdshow, haali etc etc like you suggested but that didn't fixed the desync issue bdrb have only when using the default frame server bdrb!!

AGain, when i change that to another frameserver the output of my projects DO PLAY INFACT ALL NICE IN SYNC . i repeat ALL of my MOVIE PROJECTS are done properly and play just nice ...

But ONLY when i change default settings in rebuilder .. *sighn* !!
I haven't → touched ANY SETTINGS ← in the help tools , all help tools were installed and used with the default settings appart from the settings in bdrb!!


cherriepoppers,
toiletduckListen. You don't want to post logs, you don't want to post INSPECT results -- in other words you don't want to help. All you want to do is complain and post nonsense trying to make it seem as if you are right.

Here's a news flash for you: You're not.

I, and the others here, have no time for this nonsense. Either do what I say to correct your issue... or go away. Reinstall the apps I said.

It's simple. Your issue is YOUR issue. It affects no one else. C'mon -- a little logic wouldn't hurt, don't you think? All the "sighing" in the world doesn't make you any less wrong. It just makes you look more foolish.