Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[cmw]

I think MPC's internal filter was active before which creates 2 ch only.

While that is true, it cannot be the reason for the noisy playback. I just recently switched to MPC myself for better versatility and went over all internal filters to see if they are any good. 5.1 AAC gets downmixed to Stereo by Default, but you can untick those option and the original channel mapping will remain. Neither with downmixing nor with original channel mapping did I experience any problems whatsoever with the decoded audio. It must be something else.

[tetsuo55]

ATI AVIVO 2 (UVD 2 + AVP 2) did not have such feature, and AFAIK ATI never claim that they have advertised it. Such a good feature will be trumpeted all around if it exists.

And I do think upscaling is just the same as resizing (either bicubic/bilinear in renderers or via ffdshow).

And unless a Blu-ray movie attain a Tier 5 - Coal rating at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=10733385&postcount=1 upconverted DVD is not a match for the equivalent Blu-ray version.

The feature is being trumpeted, check google, i posted several links about it at the end of my post, straight from ati

upscaling as described here is "Digital image enhancement+scaling"

I already said not to compare DVD and bluray. That link is awesome though for buy/don't buy decisions


1) UVD2 cards scale no differently than UVD1.

2) All scaling to a higher resolution is upscaling, by definition.

3) Upscaled DVDs, even maxxed bitrate superbit ones, will never look anywhere close to a decent Bluray.

1. please read, UVD1 cards don't even do bitstream MPEG2 decoding
2. this is a common misconception because the words are almost the same. Anyway what ati means is "digital enhancement and scaling to get the DVd closer to HD quality"
3. please read again, i already said so.


http://game.amd.com/us-en/unlock_radeon4800.aspx?p=3


Enhanced DVD upscaling (SD to HD)


http://ati.amd.com/products/aiwhd/features.html


Enhanced DVD Up-scaling - Watch standard definition video in near HD quality with DVD up-scaling5. ATI All-in-Wonder™ HD uses post processing to enhance standard and low resolution videos and movies for your HD display.

[rica]

While that is true, it cannot be the reason for the noisy playback. I just recently switched to MPC myself for better versatility and went over all internal filters to see if they are any good. 5.1 AAC gets downmixed to Stereo by Default, but you can untick those option and the original channel mapping will remain. Neither with downmixing nor with original channel mapping did I experience any problems whatsoever with the decoded audio. It must be something else.

Thanks for the info; as i said i have no experience with AAC.
I think you gave the answer to pjo's question.

[cmw]

Ah, I just read your posts again and found a possible reason: You claimed that the internal AAC decoder was ticked off already, but you changed the merit of an external codec to prefer. Well... If you reverse that (to get noisy playback back) and then while playing check "Play - Filters", you will see which decoder produces the bad output. (I remember having some issues with realaac once when used in ffdshow, however the problem was gone when i switched to faad). Nevertheless, seeing the problem is generally solved already, you're all set :)

[ranpha]

You are using a link that advertise the newest ATI All-in-Wonder card. One thing you seem to forgot is that that card do not support UVD2, only UVD1 because it is based on 3000 series GPU. Plus it says:-


Enhanced DVD Up-scaling - Watch standard definition video in near HD quality with DVD up-scaling5. ATI All-in-Wonder™ HD uses post processing to enhance standard and low resolution videos and movies for your HD display.

(emphasis mine).

From what I read above, all it does is doing post-processing to enhance the quality of the DVD video before being upscaled by video renderer/ffdshow (in case you are using PC) or by an upscaler in a receiver or a HDTV. UVD1/2 did not do anything (notice that the UVD feature in on a separate bullet point). I do not think ATI is advertising something new with the 4000 series, because this DVD post-processing works with older UVD1-only card too.

[tetsuo55]

You are using a link that advertise the newest ATI All-in-Wonder card. One thing you seem to forgot is that that card do not support UVD2, only UVD1 because it is based on 3000 series GPU. Plus it says:-


(emphasis mine).

From what I read above, all it does is doing post-processing to enhance the quality of the DVD video before being upscaled by video renderer/ffdshow (in case you are using PC) or by an upscaler in a receiver or a HDTV. UVD1/2 did not do anything (notice that the UVD feature in on a separate bullet point). I do not think ATI is advertising something new with the 4000 series, because this DVD post-processing works with older UVD1-only card too.

Doh, if you actually read the whole spec sheet you'd see that its a 4800 based card.

Please stop, read the entire spec sheet for a UVD1 card and the entire spec sheet for a UVD2 card. you will see they added a lot of new features. There is even a thread on the amd forum about it.

---


all it does is doing post-processing to enhance the quality of the DVD video before being upscaled by video renderer/ffdshow


Thats the whole point of upscaling, pre-processing and post-processing.
if we didn't do that it would simply be scaling

As i explain below its all done in DXVA

---
This is how upscaling like i explained it and ati means it works:

Source cleanup: Using any number of algorithms like dehalo, dering, denoise and so forth the original image in cleaned up.
Source scaling: Usually done with a simple or advanced algorithm for scaling, like lancsoz.
source sharpening/softening: Based on the source quality usually a sharpening filter is applied follow by a slight soften.

Now i'm cannot be sure which steps ati is using for this, but a safe bet would be
Denoise>scale>sharpen.

Probably using the already existing versions of these 3, which in turn means that even the simplest ffdshow>avisynth script will beat it in image quality,

PS. The upscaling works with DXVA, so no other post-processing is possible

Its supposed to work something like this:
Feed DXVA renderer a source(MPEG2) that has a lower resolution than the resolution of the panel you are displaying on. ATI will enable pre- and post processing on top of its built in scaler and "upscale" the image to the resolution the videocard is outputting

[marc99]

ATI Avivo Video Post Processor

* Color space conversion
* Chroma subsampling format conversion
* Horizontal and vertical scaling
* Gamma correction
* Advanced vector adaptive per-pixel de-interlacing
* De-blocking and noise reduction filtering
* Detail enhancement
* Color vibrance and flesh tone correction
* Inverse telecine (2:2 and 3:2 pull-down correction)
* Bad edit correction
* Enhanced DVD upscaling (SD to HD)
* Automatic dynamic contrast adjustment

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/specs.html

[Sharktooth]

upscaling = sizing up. it can be done with different resize algos (bilinear, bicubic, lanczos, spline...) including uber complex ones that provide image processing before the actual resizing to avoid artifacting or other aberrations.
ati is doing some complex operations here, but nothing that cant be done in software... seesaw for example is still my favourite upscaling method.

[rica]

I've never seen any software upscaling methot which is comparable with HW upscaling; both nVidia and Ati does this job very well.

I think nobody is expecting more :)

BTW HW deinterlacing is a real bonus to me:)

[ranpha]

http://ati.amd.com/products/aiwhd/features.html is a link to the newest ATI All-in-Wonder card. It uses the ATI 3650 HD that has 120 SPU (source: http://ati.amd.com/products/aiwhd/specs.html), the 4800 cards all have 800 SPU (source: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/specs.html). The new All in Wonder cards did not support UVD2 (but it decodes MPEG2 in hardware using a separate chip that can also do encoding). If the All-in-Wonder card uses the RV770 GPU, why on earth would it gimp the SPU from 800 to 120? The low-end 4xxx cards is not out yet (except for the FireGL), probably won't until the end of the year.

[Kurtnoise]

Hi! Everything is reproduced well.

Try to make upgrade DirectX (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=2da43d38-db71-4c1b-bc6a-9b6652cd92a3&DisplayLang=en)

I use the last update from August 2008...

btw, you use Vista (and so directX 10.x). Not the same thing coz I'm using XP...

[tetsuo55]

Everyone:

the point is not if ATI's upscaling is any match for real hardware upscaling or even seesaw.

The point is for those using DXVA its a FREE upgrade.

http://ati.amd.com/products/aiwhd/features.html is a link to the newest ATI All-in-Wonder card. It uses the ATI 3650 HD that has 120 SPU (source: http://ati.amd.com/products/aiwhd/specs.html), the 4800 cards all have 800 SPU (source: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/specs.html). The new All in Wonder cards did not support UVD2 (but it decodes MPEG2 in hardware using a separate chip that can also do encoding). If the All-in-Wonder card uses the RV770 GPU, why on earth would it gimp the SPU from 800 to 120? The low-end 4xxx cards is not out yet (except for the FireGL), probably won't until the end of the year.

Dude you're right. That card is a bastard hybrid UVD1.5

[STaRGaZeR]

1. please read, UVD1 cards don't even do bitstream MPEG2 decoding

UVD2 does not have MPEG2 bitstream decoding, only IDCT AFAIK.

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/2848/gsdfsdas5.png

BTW I don't know how to enable WMV9 DXVA :confused:

[ranpha]

UVD2 does not have MPEG2 bitstream decoding, only IDCT AFAIK.


BTW I don't know how to enable WMV9 DXVA :confused:

UVD2 has MPEG2 bitstream decoding. ModeMPEG2_IDCT (PowerDVD) is full hardware acceleration for DXVA2. ModeMPEG2_A (internal XP/Vista DVD decoder) and ModeMPEG2_C (PowerDVD) is the same too.

http://yuc7yg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pssw7WXDJYf7UaxQi6O_6gEVMk83Rtqsc1hgMabftPGj3R6Etfga1vBkvsGkGVhcp72vVFY5Gwm0/dxva-check-thumb.jpg


Everyone:

the point is not if ATI's upscaling is any match for real hardware upscaling or even seesaw.

The point is for those using DXVA its a FREE upgrade.




You will be pleased to know that ATI AVP2 post-processing works even without DXVA. In fact, hardware resizing works with all videos provided that the appropriate renderer is used.

[tetsuo55]

UVD2 has MPEG2 bitstream decoding. ModeMPEG2_IDCT (PowerDVD) is full hardware acceleration for DXVA2. ModeMPEG2_A (internal XP/Vista DVD decoder) and ModeMPEG2_C (PowerDVD) is the same too.

http://yuc7yg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pssw7WXDJYf7UaxQi6O_6gEVMk83Rtqsc1hgMabftPGj3R6Etfga1vBkvsGkGVhcp72vVFY5Gwm0/dxva-check-thumb.jpg




You will be pleased to know that ATI AVP2 post-processing works even without DXVA. In fact, hardware resizing works with all videos provided that the appropriate renderer is used.

What is avp2? and how do i use it (avp only gives me hits about aliens vs predator)

[arfster]

1. please read, UVD1 cards don't even do bitstream MPEG2 decoding


Please read, I never said they did.

It's also totally irrelevant, since I was talking about scaling, not decoding. The former isn't even anything to do with UVD/UVD2, as all scaling is done in the shaders.


2. this is a common misconception because the words are almost the same.


Sorry, you're wrong.


I have both a 4850 and 2600, and have compared them extensively - how about you?

[arfster]

UVD2 has MPEG2 bitstream decoding. ModeMPEG2_IDCT (PowerDVD) is full hardware acceleration for DXVA2. ModeMPEG2_A (internal XP/Vista DVD decoder) and ModeMPEG2_C (PowerDVD) is the same too.


Try loading a mpeg2 file through cyberlink's mpeg2 decoder - the one you're looking for is ModeMPEG2-VLD (vld = bitstream decoding). They added it in pdvd7 3100+ or thereabouts.

[STaRGaZeR]

UVD2 has MPEG2 bitstream decoding. ModeMPEG2_IDCT (PowerDVD) is full hardware acceleration for DXVA2. ModeMPEG2_A (internal XP/Vista DVD decoder) and ModeMPEG2_C (PowerDVD) is the same too.

http://yuc7yg.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pssw7WXDJYf7UaxQi6O_6gEVMk83Rtqsc1hgMabftPGj3R6Etfga1vBkvsGkGVhcp72vVFY5Gwm0/dxva-check-thumb.jpg

As you can see in your own image, UVD2 (and UVD1) has MPEG2-IDCT for MPEG2 video, not bitstream decoding. To be sure try playing a MPEG-2 Blu-ray with PDVD7 or 8 MPEG2 decoder, you'll see MPC-HC reports MPEG2-IDCT. Without DXVA CPU usage is around 20%, and with MPEG2-IDCT is around 10% with an E8400 at 4GHz. If it were bitstream decoding CPU usage would be 1% at best like with H264 and VC1 videos.

You will be pleased to know that ATI AVP2 post-processing works even without DXVA. In fact, hardware resizing works with all videos provided that the appropriate renderer is used.

And what renderers are these?

[alexins]

I use the last update from August 2008...

btw, you use Vista (and so directX 10.x). Not the same thing coz I'm using XP...

Yes, you rights, in Windows of xp/of server 2003 does not work.

[73ChargerFan]

PLEASE
.
.
.
Provide a way to reset the registry settings without using regedit.
In the Options dialog box and in the installer.

[fixed]

Provide a way to reset the registry settings without using regedit.
In the Options dialog box and in the installer.
Try a reg file:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[-HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Gabest]

[tetsuo55]

Please read, I never said they did.

It's also totally irrelevant, since I was talking about scaling, not decoding. The former isn't even anything to do with UVD/UVD2, as all scaling is done in the shaders.



Sorry, you're wrong.


I have both a 4850 and 2600, and have compared them extensively - how about you?

Actually its 100% relevant, because "upscaling" as i explained it
Pre-process, scale, post-process has been added for MPEG2 only in the UVD2 engine.

Regular scaling has been possible for years

ATI claims that the "upscaling" happens automatically when the player uses MPEG2_VLD. If i remember correctly some people have tested it and the difference is clearly visable BUT no-where near what ATI promised and even limitedsharpen upscale looks better.

And no i don't have the 4850 yet, too many issued with DXVA need fixing and supporting before i get a new card. Although the scaling of DXVA 1920x1080 to higher resolutions is interesting

[STaRGaZeR]

ATI claims that the "upscaling" happens automatically when the player uses MPEG2_VLD. If i remember correctly some people have tested it and the difference is clearly visable BUT no-where near what ATI promised and even limitedsharpen upscale looks better.

Where have you read that UVD2 has MPEG2_VLD? Such thing does not exist in any DXVA2Caps or DXVAChecker reports I've seen, including myself. There is only MPEG2_IDCT, just as in UVD1.

[ooferomen]

No, i don't think so; i was using the codecs of the trial before.
You must have been missing something.

Are you sure you made the arcsoft demux default (you can use Radlight); check opening any ts file on graphedit.

what version of arcsoft do you use? i tried to build a graph but the arcsoft mpeg demux wont connect to the arcsoft video decoder...:confused:

[rica]

what version of arcsoft do you use? i tried to build a graph but the arcsoft mpeg demux wont connect to the arcsoft video decoder...:confused:

2.1.6.121 but it's not up to SVN.

Have you uninstalled Haali?

The chain should be:

File Source (Async) > arcsoft mpeg demux > arcsoft video decoder > EVR (or VMR)

Don't forget haali is not a splitter alone but a source filter as well which means even you decrease the merit of haali to "unlikely" it is again gonna be the selected source filter.
Why?
The filters which are combined as source+splitter will always be selected as default even their merits are set to "no use".
So you'd better uninstall haali.

Lets say you made arcsoft demux your default filter and trying to render a file with graph (i mean "file" > "render media file") while haali is still loaded.

What happens?

_ _ _ _ _

[alexins]

Kurtnoise13
Try to clear settings MPC-HC. This me helped solve the problem with subtitles. I found the cause, which caused a problem with subtitles on my test computer with windows xp. Everything happened after experiments with Combined Community Codec Pack (CCCP), I deleted Codec Pack, and has made the removal of the old settings MPC-HC. After that MPC-HC again became reproduce subtitles.

[ooferomen]

2.1.6.121 but it's not up to SVN.

Have you uninstalled Haali?

The chain should be:

File Source (Async) > arcsoft mpeg demux > arcsoft video decoder > EVR (or VMR)

Don't forget haali is not a splitter alone but a source filter as well which means even you decrease the merit of haali to "unlikely" it is again gonna be the selected source filter.
Why?
The filters which are combined as source+splitter will always be selected as default even their merits are set to "no use".
So you'd better uninstall haali.

Lets say you made arcsoft demux your default filter and trying to render a file with graph (i mean "file" > "render media file") while haali is still loaded.

What happens?

_ _ _ _ _


i dont have haali installed if i try to "render media file" it says cannot render file.

when i try to make a graph i select file souce and pick a .ts then connect that to arcsoft mpeg demux which works but then arcsoft mpeg demux wont connect to arcsoft video decoder.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9428/arcsoftui4.th.jpg (http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arcsoftui4.jpg)

does yours look like this? are you running vista?

[rica]

ooferomen,

yes i use Vista SP1.

The case you are living is being generally met when your trial period has expired. (decoders don't work anymore)

Are you sure you haven't passed 15 days of trial period?

EDIT: If so, uninstall TMT trial and download/install Total Media Extreme trial and give it a go again:)

(you will find all TMT codecs and more...)

[ooferomen]

ooferomen,

yes i use Vista SP1.

The case you are living is generally met when your trial period has expired. (decoders don't work anymore)

Are you sure you haven't passed 15 days of trial period?

EDIT: If so, uninstall TMT trial and download/install Total Media Extreme trial and give it a go again:)

(you will find all TMT codecs and more...)

TMT itself works fine though...i did try an older version and was able to get it working so i'm guessing they have disabled the newer codecs outside of TMT?

[rica]

TMT itself works fine though...i did try an older version and was able to get it working so i'm guessing they have disabled the newer codecs outside of TMT?

No, i told i'm using the latest version.

[pjo]

Ah, I just read your posts again and found a possible reason: You claimed that the internal AAC decoder was ticked off already, but you changed the merit of an external codec to prefer. Well... If you reverse that (to get noisy playback back) and then while playing check "Play - Filters", you will see which decoder produces the bad output. (I remember having some issues with realaac once when used in ffdshow, however the problem was gone when i switched to faad). Nevertheless, seeing the problem is generally solved already, you're all set :)

I checked filters being used as you　suggested.

The bad jpeg is the one with AAC not checked. It uses ffdshow.

The good jpeg is the one with AAC checked and downmixed to stereo. "AAC Decoder" is used. Which "AAC decoder" is this ?

The other finding:
With AAC checked and "downmix to stereo" is checked, sound is ok.

With AAC checked and "downmix to stereo" is UNchecked, no sound is played.

I tried to check this .m2ts with MediaInfo but MediaInfo cannot load this file. What would be the good solution to get the detailed video and audio information ?

The other thing:
This is a digital broadcast. At the top of file, it is an ending portion of a news show which is probably 2ch AAC and after this segment the TV show comes up with AAC5.1 (The Beijing Olympic). The switch over from 2ch to 5.1ch is causing this problem ? The news show could be mono. But with VLC it is played ok.

pjo

[ooferomen]

No, i told i'm using the latest version.

installing the 113 trial and upgrading to 121 works but installing 120 trial does not, they must have changed something with the 120 trial decoders.

[pjo]

Ah, I just read your posts again and found a possible reason: You claimed that the internal AAC decoder was ticked off already, but you changed the merit of an external codec to prefer. Well... If you reverse that (to get noisy playback back) and then while playing check "Play - Filters", you will see which decoder produces the bad output. (I remember having some issues with realaac once when used in ffdshow, however the problem was gone when i switched to faad). Nevertheless, seeing the problem is generally solved already, you're all set :)

Here is the uploaded m2ts.
http://rapidshare.de/files/40262409/00001cutted.m2ts.html
If this is too big I will cut it again.

[ranpha]

As you can see in your own image, UVD2 (and UVD1) has MPEG2-IDCT for MPEG2 video, not bitstream decoding. To be sure try playing a MPEG-2 Blu-ray with PDVD7 or 8 MPEG2 decoder, you'll see MPC-HC reports MPEG2-IDCT. Without DXVA CPU usage is around 20%, and with MPEG2-IDCT is around 10% with an E8400 at 4GHz. If it were bitstream decoding CPU usage would be 1% at best like with H264 and VC1 videos.



When I load a DVD in MPC-HC with PowerDVD8 DXVA2 MPEG2-IDCT acceleration (EVR), the load is just about 5-10% only (Phenom 9500 but MPC-HC is single-threaded in Task Manager to only use one core). The same applies if I load the same DVD with DXVA1 MPEG2-C in overlay mixer. The same story applies if I use Microsoft MPEG2 DXVA2 in EVR or DXVA1 in VMR9/VMR7/overlay.

Plus, loading a 1080p h.264 video in MPC-HC using either PowerDVD8 H.264 decoder or the internal MPC decoder also gives the same values.

Only if I disable DXVA, the CPU rises to between 15-20%.

I actually never see 1%-only MPC-HC utilization when DXVA is activated, whether it is MPEG2 or h.264. More often than not, counting overhead, up to 10% CPU will still be used for other things like decoding the audio etc. So I assume the CPU utilization will be less than 5% even with single core if overhead is removed.

Below is the CPU utilization of using DXVA1 MPEG2-A in VMR9 playing DVD in DXVA Checker (single-threaded in Task Manager to use only one core of a 2.2Ghz CPU).

http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/1141/f459db11407666.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f459db11407666/)

3%-5% with only overhead from reading the video from the DVD and splitting the video.



And what renderers are these?

The most reliable is EVR. Just pass NV12 colorspace (ffdshow can do it) to it and AVP2 will be activated for whatever SD video you use. VMR9 can too but I did not find a reliable method to trigger AVP2, it is hit-and-miss. Hardware resizing with high quality bicubic (in pixel-shaders) of course can be done in EVR, VMR9/7 and Haali VR.

[tetsuo55]

When I load a DVD in MPC-HC with PowerDVD8 DXVA2 MPEG2-IDCT acceleration (EVR), the load is just about 5-10% only (Phenom 9500 but MPC-HC is single-threaded in Task Manager to only use one core). The same applies if I load the same DVD with DXVA1 MPEG2-C in overlay mixer. The same story applies if I use Microsoft MPEG2 DXVA2 in EVR or DXVA1 in VMR9/VMR7/overlay.

Plus, loading a 1080p h.264 video in MPC-HC using either PowerDVD8 H.264 decoder or the internal MPC decoder also gives the same values.

Only if I disable DXVA, the CPU rises to between 15-20%.

I actually never see 1%-only MPC-HC utilization when DXVA is activated, whether it is MPEG2 or h.264. More often than not, counting overhead, up to 10% CPU will still be used for other things like decoding the audio etc. So I assume the CPU utilization will be less than 5% even with single core if overhead is removed.

Below is the CPU utilization of using DXVA1 MPEG2-A in VMR9 playing DVD in DXVA Checker (single-threaded in Task Manager to use only one core of a 2.2Ghz CPU).

http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/1141/f459db11407666.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f459db11407666/)

3%-5% with only overhead from reading the video from the DVD and splitting the video.



The most reliable is EVR. Just pass NV12 colorspace (ffdshow can do it) to it and AVP2 will be activated for whatever SD video you use. VMR9 can too but I did not find a reliable method to trigger AVP2, it is hit-and-miss. Hardware resizing with high quality bicubic (in pixel-shaders) of course can be done in EVR, VMR9/7 and Haali VR.


Thats not bitstreaming but MPEG2_A, this is assisted decoding(which MPC_HC does not do) A is probably the most cpu intensive part which is being offloaded. judging by your screenshot and cpu numbers with other settings.

Its strange that stargazer's card does not report MPEG2_VLD, maybe it won't be available/visable until catalyst 8.8?

--

So enable EVR and it will automatically enable AVP2, does my hd2400pro have this feature?

[Mercury_22]

It's there any possibility to add an option to disable or enable YV12 Colorspace output (which it's Forced by default ) because it's causing some problems look here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1171099#post1171099 or http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1171489#post1171489 Please ! :helpful: :thanks:

[ranpha]

Thats not bitstreaming but MPEG2_A, this is assisted decoding(which MPC_HC does not do) A is probably the most cpu intensive part which is being offloaded. judging by your screenshot and cpu numbers with other settings.

Its strange that stargazer's card does not report MPEG2_VLD, maybe it won't be available/visable until catalyst 8.8?

--

So enable EVR and it will automatically enable AVP2, does my hd2400pro have this feature?

MPC-HC playing the stupidly interlaced Evangelion Death and Rebirth DVD using Microsoft internal MPEG2 decoder in DXVA1 MPEG2_A mode using VMR9 renderless.

http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/1142/f0951a11419865.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f0951a11419865/)

Doesn't seem to have any problem with assisted decoding here. If MPC-HC can't do assisting decoding as you claim, is this MPEG2_A bitstream decoding?

MPEG2_A/C is better than MPEG2_IDCT because they support dual-stream decoding for picture-in-picture.

AVP2 works with overlay/VMR9/VMR7/EVR renderers if DXVA is used. Using AVP2 without DXVA works only in EVR (need to pass NV12 colorspace to it). And oh yeah, AVP2 works only with ATI 3200 HD and ATI 4xxx cards. AVP works in your card though, check CCC if it has settings for Advanced Quality (Edge-enhancement and denoiser).

It's there any possibility to add an option to disable or enable YV12 Colorspace output (which it's Forced by default ) because it's causing some problems look here http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1171099#post1171099 or http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1171489#post1171489 Please ! :helpful: :thanks:

Are you talking about the internal MPEG4 decoder? It seems to me that it will output YUY2 by default. EVR can't accept YV12 it seems in Vista Ultimate x64 (if your sig is right), thus if your video card cannot use the VMR7 renderer properly you will get black screen. Can you play the same test file explicitly with VMR7?

[tetsuo55]

MPC-HC playing the stupidly interlaced Evangelion Death and Rebirth DVD using Microsoft internal MPEG2 decoder in DXVA1 MPEG2_A mode using VMR9 renderless.

http://thumbnails9.imagebam.com/1142/f0951a11419865.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/f0951a11419865/)

Doesn't seem to have any problem with assisted decoding here. If MPC-HC can't do assisting decoding as you claim, is this MPEG2_A bitstream decoding?

MPEG2_A/C is better than MPEG2_IDCT because they support dual-stream decoding for picture-in-picture.

AVP2 works with overlay/VMR9/VMR7/EVR renderers if DXVA is used. Using AVP2 without DXVA works only in EVR (need to pass NV12 colorspace to it).


MPC_HC isn't doing the decoding, you're using microsofts decoder which supports all variations of MPEG2 hardware decoding.

If you block microsft and enable the built in MPEG2 decoder you will see the lack of DXVA.

i looked some stuff up on MSDN and ????_A is the 2nd best decoder profile, its almost full bitstream decoding, only ????_VLD beats it.

Also enabling MPEG2, MPEG1 and DIVX bitstream looks trivial when compared to h264. However after reading the ATI site a million times i think ATI is cheating and the MPEG1 and DIVX acceleration are actually assisted and not bitstreaming

---
Stargazer and Ranpha could you try it again with the latest version of DXVAchecker
Also if possible with the latest ati driver, you can find it here:
http://forums.guru3d.com/showpost.php?p=2809130&postcount=121

DXVA Checker 1.8.1.0: http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/

[ranpha]

MPC_HC isn't doing the decoding, you're using microsofts decoder which supports all variations of MPEG2 hardware decoding.

If you block microsft and enable the built in MPEG2 decoder you will see the lack of DXVA.

i looked some stuff up on MSDN and ????_A is the 2nd best decoder profile, its almost full bitstream decoding, only ????_VLD beats it.

Also enabling MPEG2, MPEG1 and DIVX bitstream looks trivial when compared to h264. However after reading the ATI site a million times i think ATI is cheating and the MPEG1 and DIVX acceleration are actually assisted and not bitstreaming


AFAIK, the internal MPC-HC (at least in build 727) decoder did not support DXVA at all. Or is it?

[tetsuo55]

AFAIK, the internal MPC-HC (at least in build 727) decoder did not support DXVA at all. Or is it?

It does, but only for h264 and VC1, all other codecs are software only.

Ps i edited my previous post could you take another look please?

[loretta80]

Are there new (latest) standalone filters available?

[ranpha]

It does, but only for h264 and VC1, all other codecs are software only.

Ps i edited my previous post could you take another look please?

That's why I do not use internal filters for playing DVDs. Microsoft internal decoder/PowerDVD works fine with MPC-HC (I disabled the MPEG2 decoder). I already used the latest DXVA Checker but I cannot install the leaked driver because I use Vista 64-bit (it spits out too many paranoid warnings if drivers are not blessed by Microsoft).

[Mercury_22]

Are you talking about the internal MPEG4 decoder? It seems to me that it will output YUY2 by default. EVR can't accept YV12 it seems in Vista Ultimate x64 (if your sig is right), thus if your video card cannot use the VMR7 renderer properly you will get black screen. Can you play the same test file explicitly with VMR7?

Yes I can play it with VMR7 ! The problem is only with Intel G945 & G965 & G33 & G35 (G45 not tested yet) + EVR (Vista 32 & Vista 64)+ YV12 and some mpeg4 video files (DX50 encoder XviD build 37) NOT ALL mpeg4 files

I'm asking just for an option not to disable it since I remember others having problems with YV12 output on different video cards and with different type of files!
If I use Xvid or Divx (No YV12 output by default) or if I disable YV12 output in ffdshow everthing it's OK ! (but with internal filters I don't have such option)

This is most likely a driver issue but it's there and intel doesn't seem to care about :mad:

P.S. I also can't play this AviSynth script DirectShowSource("C:\Users\Public\Videos\Sample Videos\Bear.wmv") with MPC-HC & any Render :helpful: (but VirtualDub has no problem with it)

[tetsuo55]

That's why I do not use internal filters for playing DVDs. Microsoft internal decoder/PowerDVD works fine with MPC-HC (I disabled the MPEG2 decoder). I already used the latest DXVA Checker but I cannot install the leaked driver because I use Vista 64-bit (it spits out too many paranoid warnings if drivers are not blessed by Microsoft).

Okay, that driver is xp only, many people have reqested a vista version but the guy has not responded.

I use cyberlinks decoder which uses my videocards assisted decoding too(most importantly the deinterlacing part)

however as soon as MPC-HC supports mpeg2 i won't have to rely on closed source payware anymore.

[pjo]

Here is the uploaded m2ts.
http://rapidshare.de/files/40262409/00001cutted.m2ts.html
If this is too big I will cut it again.

I was able to cut the first part of the mono news show segment of the .m2ts file with MurdocCutter. And then it has only AAC5.1 part. It plays ok with ffdshow or AAC decoder. Checking "downmix to stereo" does not matter in this case.

VLC and MPC with AAC decoder can cope with the sudden change of the audio channel format.

pjo

[marc99]

Checking "Set interlaced flag in output media type" in MPC-HC mpeg2 internal decoder, enabling hardware post processing (deinteralcing, etc.)

[ranpha]

Checking "Set interlaced flag in output media type" in MPC-HC mpeg2 internal decoder, enabling hardware post processing (deinteralcing, etc.)

But with Microsoft internal MPEG2 decoder, you will automatically get hardware post-processing in addition of hardware-assisted acceleration.

On an unrelated note, reading the post above reminded me how to enable AVP2 on VMR renderers, that would be with enabling the interface flag on ffdshow in addition of setting up NV12 output.

[arfster]

Actually its 100% relevant, because "upscaling" as i explained it
Pre-process, scale, post-process has been added for MPEG2 only in the UVD2 engine.


Scaling is always done in the shaders - UVD/UVD2 is a dedicated hardware decoder, nothing more.

As before, there's no difference in scaling between the 48xx cards and the 2xxx/3xxx cards.

[tetsuo55]

Scaling is always done in the shaders - UVD/UVD2 is a dedicated hardware decoder, nothing more.

As before, there's no difference in scaling between the 48xx cards and the 2xxx/3xxx cards.

there is, see proof:

http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd4800/index.html


Unified Video Decoder 2 (UVD 2) - UVD 2 frees up your CPU for other tasks so you get The Ultimate Visual Experience™ for even the most processing-intensive content, including VC-1, H.264 and now MPEG-2. Also, take full advantage of Blu-ray functionality with dual-stream, picture in picture (PIP) capabilities.



Enhanced DVD Upscaling - Watch standard DVD movies in near high-definition quality with DVD upscaling. The GPU uses post processing algorithms to enhance standard and low resolution videos and movies on your HD display.



ATI Avivo Video Post Processor6
Color space conversion
Chroma subsampling format conversion
Horizontal and vertical scaling
Gamma correction
Advanced vector adaptive per-pixel de-interlacing
De-blocking and noise reduction filtering
Detail enhancement
Color vibrance and flesh tone correction
Inverse telecine (2:2 and 3:2 pull-down correction)
Bad edit correction
Enhanced DVD upscaling (SD to HD)
Automatic dynamic contrast adjustment


You can cleary see all these features missing here:
http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonhd3800/specs.html

The fact that you are unable to see the difference is another problem (driver versions, ccc settings, reg tweaks, playback software)

[arfster]

I actually never see 1%-only MPC-HC utilization when DXVA is activated, whether it is MPEG2 or h.264.

Tested this last year when DVBviewer added EVR: over an hour, average cpu use was something like 0.6% playing 16mbit interlaced h264. That's BBC HD live over satellite, so there's the overhead from DVB Viewer too. Setup was a core2 duo in Vista32, underclocking itself to 1.5ghz or thereabouts.