Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[ryrynz]

I think its a crazy thought.

If you already have VSfilter (XY, threaded etc) installed though, any reason for it to still be there? Or would it just be best to keep it there for average users who don't wish to install extra programs for the extra functionality?
Just throwing it out there, I know merging some of the code from the forks is in the todo list but with better solutions out there it looks like it could be removed at least from the lite version as people who install that would generally know what they're doing anyway.

[Keiyakusha]

Neither EVR-CP nor MadVR can work out-of-box on Windows XP, so either VMR-7, VMR-9 or Overlay would need to be retained.
Yeah I forgot about that... Then VMR9 should stay too (i heard its not that different from evr and they share some code)

I believe it should be removed as it is very broken and buggy, and the VSFilter project itself would be much better off divorced from MPC.If you already have VSfilter (XY, threaded etc) installed though, any reason for it to still be there?
Personally I don't have them installed. Last time I tried them, they was unable to provide some features that MPC-HC internal renderer have. I'll try xy sometime soon to see its progress but as I understand it still can't prepare subtitles to be rrendered by video renderer, its a pure software solution. It was initially my request and madshi, nev and others did very good job developing interface that could help achieve this, it developed into something big, nice and cool after all, but I think there is no working implementations of this feature yet, only draft, specification. Not xy nor madvr can support it yet. There was some other things like custom subtitles resolution but i cant speak about that, I messed with this too long ago.

[clsid]

None of the non-custom renderers is going to be removed. They are all still being used by many people. The only change that may happen in the future is that the custom renderers are replaced by new ones based on JanWillem32's work.

[Keiyakusha]

None of the non-custom renderers is going to be removed. They are all still being used by many people. The only change that may happen in the future is that the custom renderers are replaced by new ones based on JanWillem32's work.
So why not stop them from using these useless renderers, what good in using something inferior?
Also we still have to add vsfilter to external filters to be able to load it. If that's a good way for you (devs) why not make the same for these useless renderers?
And we was talking about lite version only, cause I already learned that normal version is not going to go in right direction, unless someone forks it.

[ryrynz]

So why not stop them from using these useless renderers, what good in using something inferior?


For the simple reason that it's easier to set up and results in less issues for the end user right now. The push to remove some of the older renderers will be made once the newer ones work in nearly all cases.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what direction they're willing to take with the lite build. Whether it remains MPC without filters or turns into something a little leaner and meaner. I'm hoping for the latter.

[nevcairiel]

Regarding the renderers:
- VMR-7 versions can all be removed, they are based on DirectX 7 and were mostly targeted at very old Windows versions which are not supported anymore anyway.
- VMR-9 windowed, plain EVR and Overlay are provided by Windows itself (no code to save), and they serve a purpose on low-powered systems, no reason to remove them.
- Haali: Eventhough its half-broken, it doesn't actually have more then 20 lines of code in MPC-HC, so there isn't that much to be gained from removing it.

So to conclude, the only things really worth removing are the two VMR-7 (even in the full builds)
The "Null" renderer could probably be removed from the list and be replaced with another option somewhere that says "Disable Video Rendering" or something like that.
"Old Renderer" can probably also be removed, don't think it serves any purpose that Overlay or VMR (windowed) don't..

[fastplayer]

- Haali: Eventhough its half-broken, it doesn't actually have more then 20 lines of code in MPC-HC, so there isn't that much to be gained from removing it.
...but we save ourselves "XYZ doesn't work with Haali renderer..."-posts. That's a gain right there!

[ryrynz]

- Haali: Eventhough its half-broken, it doesn't actually have more then 20 lines of code in MPC-HC, so there isn't that much to be gained from removing it.


Well the lite build would get a little lighter, perhaps this build could lead the way if devs are unwilling to remove these from the standard version right now.

[nevcairiel]

But you get "Where did Haali Renderer go? Its the only renderer that works for me!" posts :p

[clsid]

MPC-HC can be made more light-weight by moving things out of the executable. For example the shaders. This solves some bugs/limitations at the same time (such as shader size limitation with INI file).

[Keiyakusha]

Somehow can't find separate xy-vsfilter thread even though I remember something like that...
Anyway, I tried it as I promised. Unfortunately it still lacks 2 options that I use all the time, so I can't prefer it over internal subtitle renderer.
These are: 1) I can't override all styles with my own default style; 2) I cant control resolution of the subs. Means when I watch 1080p video I can't render subs at 720p then upscale to 1080p.

[Virtual_ManPL]

I just fresh reinstalled MPC-HC by deleting "Gabest" keys in registry and I see that under "Maximum texture resolution:" we still use "800x600", isn't that so low today?
Subtitles look damn horrible and awfully pixelated with this setting. Shouldn't we by default use "Desktop"?

http://i.imgur.com/Wl5rS.png



And is just me or changing EVR Buffers is broken? Can someone confirm this?

[v0lt]

Shouldn't we by default use "Desktop"?
No, of course. 800x600 is stable on most processors.

[Virtual_ManPL]

But the quality of the produced subtitles look simply terrible compared to ex. SMPlayer or VLC...

If we want performance gain, shouldn't we change "Sub pictures to buffer:" to 0. More sub pictures to buffer can cause more delay and will eat more CPU power.
Also as far I remember everything above 0 causes subtitles flickering when animation was also included in subs, dunno if this was fixed yet.

JanWillem32 build's have already this changed ;p

[Keiyakusha]

But the quality of the produced subtitles look simply terrible compared to ex. SMPlayer or VLC...

Not at all. This is depends on the screen resolution. For 1080p screen it maybe a bit too low but its not a pain to change it manually. You need to do it only once after all.

Having it set at desktop is what many people (including me) hate. In this case subtitles looks too sharp and unnatural, they badly blend into the picture.

JanWillem32 build's have already this changed ;p
So? When, or even if his work will be added, you should expect that many stuff like that may be omitted.

Btw I always though buffer only helps to achieve better performance, not the other way. Like when you have some cycles to spare it prepares subs ahead so during some spike when you have no power to spare it still can show subs without delay cause they already prepared. I got wrong impression of this feature? Anyway never noticed any problems with default settings.

[fairchild]

Not at all. This is depends on the screen resolution. For 1080p screen it maybe a bit too low but its not a pain to change it manually. You need to do it only once after all.


What's the recommended for 1080p? 1024x768 or do people use a different setting aside from desktop resolution in which case the subs are very sharp?

[Keiyakusha]

What's the recommended for 1080p? 1024x768 or do people use a different setting aside from desktop resolution in which case the subs are very sharp?

There is no recommended. Use what you like more... I use 1280x720

[Virtual_ManPL]

Not at all.
Yes. Quality on default setting is terrible compared to other players...
Look on this awful blur...
It's like in Firefox 4 with not fixed DW/D2D font rendering...

SMPlayer
http://suxorz.com/i5/smplayer.png

VLC
http://suxorz.com/i5/vlc.png

MPC-HC [800x600] (default now)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchc800x6.png

MPC-HC [Desktop] (1680x1050)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchcdeskt.png


This is depends on the screen resolution. For 1080p screen it maybe a bit too low but its not a pain to change it manually. You need to do it only once after all.
That's why default option should be Desktop. No user integration needed or no need to read some config guides how to set MPC-HC properly. It will work great out of the box.

Having it set at desktop is what many people (including me) hate.
It didn't matter what you or even I hate or prefer/like. The quality matter first, next comes performance for all and for greater goods :p
It's hard to image that any modern CPU will have problem with this setting as default. Even on my old P3 1GHz I used Desktop option with 1280x1024 on 17"/19" CRT without any problem.

In this case subtitles looks too sharp and unnatural, they badly blend into the picture.
The solution can be simply, just delete this option there with making Desktop a default setting and add checkbox like "Add Gaussian blur" etc. for people who prefer not that sharp subtitles.

[ryrynz]

The solution can be simply, just delete this option there with making Desktop a default setting and add checkbox like "Add Gaussian blur" etc. for people who prefer not that sharp subtitles.

Agreed. Any devs wanna chime in on this?

[nevcairiel]

Being able to reduce the rendering resolution is also important for performance.
The default can probably be increased to 1280x720 or something like that, it would already give smoother results without being over-sharp on a FullHD screen.

[Keiyakusha]

It didn't matter what you or even I hate or prefer/like. The quality matter first, next comes performance for all and for greater goods :p

Define quality? For me quality is what looks best. For me on 1080p screen subs looks best when rendered at 1280x720 resolution. This is depends on the content too. Most of the content I watch doesn't have real details/sharpness for 1080p. If I will watch some Hollywood CGI movie, i'll probably want it to be set at "desktop".
BTW i think bluriness and aliasing of the subs also affected by resize method. It may be different between all renderers.
EDIT: of course if you compare subs on black background - desktop ones is a winner. What I'm talking about is real usage. If you really think having it so sharp is good this is nothing else but your personal preference, but as you say - it doesn't matter what you like...

About adding blur option - i though about that but yes, performance is important too. If you take only the subs - it maybe not hard to render them on weak PC, but don't forget that weak PC can be already 100% used for decoding alone and have very little to spare for subs. And blur approach will be only slower. I think potplayer have blur option. Or was it kmplayer? Don't really remember.

[demi_alucard]

We were already thinking on changing the default to 1280x720 like a month or so ago. Desktop may be the best option, but like nev said, we still need to consider people with old PCs.

The reason why this hasn't been done already is because we are also thinking on changing the options available from hard-coded screen resolutions to fractions of the desktop resolution. Like Double of Desktop Resolution, Match Desktop Resolution, Three Quarters of Desktop Resolution and Half of Desktop Resolution.

Changing things that currently work fine can't be done thoughtlessly.

[Hera]

^
I can manage 800x600 (no-anim) on trunk and 1920x1080 (anim in most cases) in renderer fixes builds on my netbook.

[ryrynz]

we still need to consider people with old PCs.

People with old hardware can always change the settings down, default settings should provide the best quality option for users by default.

[dukey]

Intel ion is new hardware. Yet pretty slow. To me the fact subs are so heavy says maybe the entire design is wrong. What was fine for SD material doesn't scale well to HD.

[gngn]

i have trouble compiling MPC-HC since r5299 (gccbuild.bat: improve EXIT error level patch by kasper93) on WinXP 32bit, the error i am getting is:

"fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'bin\lib\Release_Win32\ffmpeg.lib'"
there aren't any related warnings just that the \obj\Release_Win32\ffmpeg directory is completely empty and even starting \src\thirdparty\ffmpeg\gccbuild.bat on it's own doesnt do anything, nothing is built,

[demi_alucard]

People with old hardware can always change the settings down, default settings should provide the best quality option for users by default.You are assuming people even know why the the video is playing slow, or that they know what to change and even where the option is...

Not that any of this matters to me anymore since I stopped working on mpc-hc.
I suggest you guys to submit your ideas as feature requests to the bug tracker (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/report/1) since things can get lost here fast and the devs only read this topic once in a while.

[ryrynz]

I don't think that the advantage of people with slower hardware (very few users) and getting faster subtitle display outweighs the advantage of the majority of people getting better displayed subtitles right out of the box.
You should give people credit enough for being able to change options and diagnose their own issues :D

Why'd you stop working on MPC? I've seen a few commits from you over the months, is this temporary?

[ZoNi]

Anyone (authors?): is it possible to add those 2 options to MPCHC:
1. When moving cursor to top of screen (when full screen) to show titlebar? That way it is easy to see file name and to exit MPCHC with mouse.
2. To increase size of time labels?

[bozek]

We were already thinking on changing the default to 1280x720 like a month or so ago. Desktop may be the best option, but like nev said, we still need to consider people with old PCs.

Please, define 'old PC'

[vBm]

i have trouble compiling MPC-HC since r5299 (gccbuild.bat: improve EXIT error level patch by kasper93) on WinXP 32bit, the error i am getting is:

"fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'bin\lib\Release_Win32\ffmpeg.lib'"
there aren't any related warnings just that the \obj\Release_Win32\ffmpeg directory is completely empty and even starting \src\thirdparty\ffmpeg\gccbuild.bat on it's own doesnt do anything, nothing is built,

Have you tried clean build from freshly cloned source?
No idea really why it fails for you (I'm on Win7 thou ... so maybe Underground78 will have more info)

[gngn]

Have you tried clean build from freshly cloned source?
No idea really why it fails for you (I'm on Win7 thou ... so maybe Underground78 will have more info)

yes, and still the same. problem is the new line "IF %ERRORLEVEL% NEQ 0 EXIT /B" introduced in src/thirdparty/ffmpeg/gccbuild.bat by r5299.

if i change the 0 ftom "NEQ 0" to "NEQ 1" (or any number >1) or the whole expression to "IF ERRORLEVEL 2 EXIT /B" (or any number > 2) it works but i have no ideea what these changes do, and if then the errorlevel check still does what kasper93 intended. :helpful:

[Virtual_ManPL]

Being able to reduce the rendering resolution is also important for performance.
We should care first about quality, next performance.
Of course if this feature isn't too much resource hog, which in this case isn't.
More resources use for example "Round up to power of two" or "Subpictures to buffer:" which are enabled by default.

The default can probably be increased to 1280x720 or something like that, it would already give smoother results without being over-sharp on a FullHD screen.
Yep, that's a good way, but still not the best.
The subtitles set to Desktop aren't over-sharped, even in FullHD.
They're simply properly rendered without blur, like in other programs, even on other systems.
I didn't see any other program that will render subtitles that poor out of the box like MPC-HC.



For me on 1080p screen subs looks best when rendered at 1280x720 resolution. This is depends on the content too. Most of the content I watch doesn't have real details/sharpness for

1080p. If I will watch some Hollywood CGI movie, i'll probably want it to be set at "desktop".
So see, even in your case defalut 800x600 isn't a good setting too.

EDIT: of course if you compare subs on black background - desktop ones is a winner. What I'm talking about is real usage.
You want real usage, not only subtitles on black bacground. You get it. I only hope it's enough ;)

VLC
http://suxorz.com/i5/vlc1.png

MPC-HC [800x600] (default now)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchc8ltl.png

MPC-HC [Desktop] (1680x1050)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchcdeke.png


VLC
http://suxorz.com/i5/vlc2.png

MPC-HC [800x600] (default now)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchc8bhb.png

MPC-HC [Desktop] (1680x1050)
http://suxorz.com/i5/mpchcdono.png

If you really think having it so sharp is good this is nothing else but your personal preference, but as you say - it doesn't matter what you like...
I can also said that on opposite way, like
'If you really think having it so blurry is good this is nothing else but your personal preference, but as you say - it doesn't matter what you like...'

About adding blur option - i though about that but yes, performance is important too. If you take only the subs - it maybe not hard to render them on weak PC, but don't forget that

weak PC can be already 100% used for decoding alone ,and have very little to spare for subs. And blur approach will be only slower.
As I said before, even on my old P3 1GHz I used Desktop option with 1280x1024 on 17"/19" CRT without any problem.
Hera's netbook can also manage to render subtitles in 1920x1080.

If CPUs is used in 100% the video by itself will be playing poor, massive frame drops etc...
It happens for me on my old PC when I try to play h.264 >480p



@ Stephen R. Savage - mostly agree, we should integrate VSFilterMod, Threaded-VSFilter and xy-VSFilter into MPC-HC,
but animation support is a eye candy :)



You are assuming people even know why the the video is playing slow, or that they know what to change and even where the option is...
I can also said that like this
'You are assuming people even know why the the subtitles looks so bad, or that they know what to change and even where the option is.' They will simply change player faster.

I also have the same question like bozek.
Are we talking about 286,386 and 486 or P1/2 CPUs? Even 10 years old CPUs can use this setting without any problems.
This isn't even funny... ;p

[Keiyakusha]

Virtual_ManPL
You try to convince me with what? You say 800x600 is too low? I agree. Desktop probably looks better than 800x600 for me most of the time. Personally I don't care what is set to be default, as long as I can change it myself.


As I said before, even on my old P3 1GHz I used Desktop option with 1280x1024 on 17"/19" CRT without any problem.
Not sure what to say about that. Pentium 3 1ghz is unable to even play many h264 HD material even without subs at all. So anything that can help with performance, even if it a very little help - should be welcomed.


Stephen R. Savage - mostly agree, we should integrate VSFilterMod, Threaded-VSFilter and xy-VSFilter into MPC-HC
VSFilterMod and Threaded-VSFilter bring nothing good, only xy-VSFilter does. If there is a way to do so, VSFilterMod, if it is possible, should be discarded at all if someone will try to use it for playback. Its not meant for playback. It shouldn't be used.

[fagoatse]

Virtual_ManPL
You try to convince me with what? You say 800x600 is too low? I agree.


Not sure what to say about that. Pentium 3 1ghz is unable to even play many h264 HD material even without subs at all. So anything that can help with performance, even if it a very little help - should be welcomed.


VSFilterMod and Threaded-VSFilter bring nothing good, only xy-VSFilter does. If there is a way to do so, VSFilterMod, if it is possible, should be discarded at all if someone will try to use it for playback. Its not meant for playback. It shouldn't be used.


JanWillem's work on the ISR is more than enough. My 1.6GHz dualcore APU manages fullhd vids with very fancy subs(anims, karaoke) using desktop resolution(1080p) without a hitch. Prebuffering set to 5.
^that's in dxva, software decoding of 720p 10bit with the same subs goes smootlhy in most cases.

[Keiyakusha]

that's in dxva, software decoding of 720p 10bit with the same subs goes smootlhy in most cases.
10bit material can't be decoded with DXVA, CUVID or any other hardware stuff.
But anyway I don't think you can convince developers to change things by saying something like: "when video is hardware-decoded and CPU have nothing more to do, the subs are not affecting performance". What about the case when its not hardware-decoded 1080p and you barely can make it work on even modern but weak hardware?

[Hera]

Hera's netbook can also manage to render subtitles in 1920x1080.


This is with JanWillem32's builds.
EDIT: Someone should rename JW32's thread to "Epic Performance Boost for MPC:HC"
Once all those changes make in unto trunk desktop setting (or half-desktop setting) for subtitles seems like the best option.

I do know examples of animated subtitles which are not visually impressive but lagg video when animated (very rare for DXVA) so animations should probably not be turned on by default.

EDIT 2: Also take note that I have a NVIDIA 9400M in that thing, hardly normal. Uhm, I am planning to test with a Intel GPU netbook sometime later.

10bit material can't be decoded with DXVA, CUVID or any other hardware stuff.
But anyway I don't think you can convince developers to change things by saying something like: "when video is hardware-decoded and CPU have nothing more to do, the subs are not affecting performance". What about the case when its not hardware-decoded 1080p?

I can manage 480p 10-bit with only rare sound-cutting-out thing.

[fagoatse]

10bit material can't be decoded with DXVA, CUVID or any other hardware stuff.
But anyway I don't think you can convince developers to change things by saying something like: "when video is hardware-decoded and CPU have nothing more to do, the subs are not affecting performance". What about the case when its not hardware-decoded 1080p and you barely can make it work on even modern but weak hardware?

Thanks for stating the obvious lol. I wrote "software decoding" for a reason..

[kasper93]

i have trouble compiling MPC-HC since r5299 (gccbuild.bat: improve EXIT error level patch by kasper93) on WinXP 32bit, the error i am getting is:

"fatal error LNK1181: cannot open input file 'bin\lib\Release_Win32\ffmpeg.lib'"
there aren't any related warnings just that the \obj\Release_Win32\ffmpeg directory is completely empty and even starting \src\thirdparty\ffmpeg\gccbuild.bat on it's own doesnt do anything, nothing is built,

Here is the patch http://pastebin.com/aFWeM9tq XP doesn't like when we define empty var.

[Snowknight26]

Google Code no longer hosting an SVN mirror?

[gngn]

Here is the patch http://pastebin.com/aFWeM9tq XP doesn't like when we define empty var.

thank you, it works now

[wanezhiling]

http://pan.baidu.com/netdisk/singlepublic?fid=490791_1395353873
Can't work with "internal flv splitter + ffdshow DXVA", LAV Splitter is ok.


MPC-HC 1.6.3.5318
FFDSHOW rev4464

[diply]

I notice when i put two or more video files into playlist it wont to switch to on a next video. What is the problem?
I have the latest ver. of MPC HC x86

[Liisachan]

Hi devs,
Thanks always for your great work!

I just happened to look at some of recent revisions, and noticed that perhaps you need to remove the "bool" in Rasterizer.cpp, Line 61:

Rasterizer::Rasterizer() ...
{
mOverlayWidth = mOverlayHeight = 0;
mPathOffsetX = mPathOffsetY = 0;
mOffsetX = mOffsetY = 0;
// CPUID from VDub
bool fSSE2 = !!(g_cpuid.m_flags & CCpuID::sse2);
}

Like above, I think the real Rasterizer::fSSE2 member is never set, shadowed by a temporal local.

[Liisachan]

While we're at it... I've always wanted to say that this "SpanIncluding" in RTS.cpp Line 544 has no effects, though harmless, because you discard the returned value.

CStringW str = m_str;
str.SpanIncluding(L"mnlbspc 0123456789");


There are a few more substantial problems I'd like to report; I think I'll use the bug tracker when I have time.

[ryrynz]

Or someone could give him/her SVN access if they're interested? :)

[v0lt]

I just happened to look at some of recent revisions, and noticed that perhaps you need to remove the "bool" in Rasterizer.cpp,
day before yesterday (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/changeset/5317/) :)

[Liisachan]

@v0lt: sorry about that! I thought I was looking at the Head but obviously it was not the newest version. Next time I'll be more careful.
@ryrynz: No, I'm not good enough. I can report a bug but in general I can't fix it/can't post a patch.

So I just created two tickets.
#2460 ASS Shadow alpha is wrong if subtitles are overlapped in a certain way (https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/2460)
#2461 \r in ASS can break "Position subtitle relative to the video frame" (https://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/2461)

I did some search by keywords like "shadow alpha" "relative to" to make sure they are not yet reported, but I'm sorry in advance if they're already known bugs. Thanks again for this great application.

[v0lt]

Does anyone know why "Dynamic Range Control" option is always grayed out for DTS?
http://i.imgur.com/FsSco.png
Why is it done?

[Amour]

default settings of MPC-HC not working for my new notebook!

I got a new Samsung NP530U4B:
http://www.samsung.com/fr/consumer/it/notebook/ultra-portable/NP530U4B-S01FR
Windows® 7 Home Premium 64-bit
Intel® Core™ i5 2467M (1.6 GHz, 3 Mo L3 Cache)

I tried Windows Media Player: no issue, all videos play fine (except .mkv and the like of course...).

I tried latest stable (1.6.2) and svn (1.6.3.5322) MPC-HC : sound plays fine but the image is blinking fast and stuck at very first frame of the video. Even if you seek somewhere in the video, you still only see the first frame blinking. It does this issue for .avi .wmv .mp4 .mkv ; It works fine with a .mpg.

Settings are default: EVR Custom Pres. + All internal filters.