Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[Amour]

So, in relation with my previous message, I decided to test all renderers with my new notebook:
* System Default: doesn't work: no subtitles
* Old Renderer: doesn't work: two pictures, upside-down, wrong colors
* Overlay Mixer: doesn't work: it breaks the transparency from Aero
* VRM-7 (windowed): doesn't work: no subtitles
* VRM-9 (windowed): doesn't work: no subtitles
* VRM-7 (renderless): works
* VRM-9 (renderless): works
* Null (anything): doesn't work: no image
* Null (uncompress): doesn't work: no image
* EVR: doesn't work: no subtitles
* EVR Custom Pres.: doesn't work: only first frame is displayed, blinking
* EVR Sync: works
* Haali Renderer: not selectable
* MadVR: not selectable

My conclusion: for best compatibility results, we should default next stable release to EVR Sync or VRM-9 (renderless) or VRM-7 (renderless). In all cases, it's surprising there is so many renderers not working

[nevcairiel]

EVR Sync has serious issues itself, and VMR-9 does not support DXVA on Vista/7, so neither are a good option. You can't base a decision like this on tests on one system.

Your classification of "not working" is rather weird anyway. All your "no subtitles" are not bugs, if you read the texts on the Output selection page you would've noticed that its not meant to work with those (only the ones marked with ** work with the internal subtitle renderer), so the only thing really "broken" for you is EVR-CP (The "Old Renderer" just never worked properly on new OSes, but its provided by Microsoft so the only "fix" would be to remove it)

To diagnose further, i would suggest to disable the DXVA decoders, and see if the problem with EVR-CP solves itself, and if it does, try using another DXVA decoder.

I hope you also considered upgrading the drivers that came with the thing, the stock drivers a laptop ships with are usually very old.

[dukey]

MPC-HC needs to be cleaned up. There is far too much legacy stuff in there. I'd simply drop support for XP and strip out all the old renderers

[SeeMoreDigital]

MPC-HC needs to be cleaned up. There is far too much legacy stuff in there. I'd simply drop support for XP and strip out all the old renderersAgreed...

Indeed, a few days ago I installed Windows 8 (32-bit) on a Nvidia GPU based net-top PC and was surprised to discover that Windows Media Player 12 played my 1920x1080 40Mbps AVC test files much better than MPC-HC with LAV decoder filters :scared:

EDIT: I tried many "Output" renderer combinations but could not find anything that could play my test files without dropped frames. It was very disappointing...

[Keiyakusha]

So we are back to these renderers. As you can see, it is very confusing for newbies. They have no idea what it is and what to do with it... And they shouldn't!
IMHO:
System Default -> remove. instead make a button "restore default" below that will select good renderer from MPC-HC's point of view for given OS. Which is probably EVR-CP on everything above XP.
Old Renderer -> remove
Overlay Mixer -> Not sure if someone uses it. what is the possible usage of this? I think remove...
VRM-7/9 Windowed -> Remove
VRM-7/9 renderless -> Keep one of them
Nullx2 -> remove
EVR -> remove edit: nev says that it is noticeably faster than EVR-CP. Maybe should stay then.
EVR Custom Pres -> obviously keep
EVR Sync -> anyone uses this? Remove until JanWillem32 will finish his work
Haali Renderer -> absolutely remove
MadVR -> add desctiption that it should be downloaded separately and its ok if it grayed out

and don't forget that those who still want to use broken stuff that will be removed will be able to do so by adding it to external filters dialog.

EDIT: also temove these REalMEdia and Quicktime things on the same page

[nevcairiel]

Standard EVR should be kept, its a good control group and is useful on low-end systems where EVR-CP might be too much.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Standard EVR should be kept, its a good control group and is useful on low-end systems where EVR-CP might be too much.
This begs the question. Which current MPC renderer option is supposed consume the least CPU/GPU power?

A newbies first experience of MPC should be that it can (at the very least) meet or hopefully exceed the performance of Windows Media Player 12 in "System Default" mode!

EDIT: It might be worth pointing out that I'm pumping the images via HDMI to a 50" Panasonic TV...

[Keiyakusha]

Standard EVR should be kept, its a good control group and is useful on low-end systems where EVR-CP might be too much.

Also if thats the case, what so good EVR-CP brings compared to classic EVR that makes it slower? Subtitles, yes, but lets say I have them disabled. What else?
Personally If I use EVR-CP, I have all vsync and everything else turned OFF. Only in this case have smooth playback.

[ney2x]

MPC-HC.1.6.3.5334.x86 <---- I like this, it blends with my logo :)

http://i.imgur.com/LPICK.jpg

[nevcairiel]

Also if thats the case, what so good EVR-CP brings compared to classic EVR that makes it slower? Subtitles, yes, but lets say I have them disabled. What else?
Personally If I use EVR-CP, I have all vsync and everything else turned OFF. Only in this case have smooth playback.

It has quite some options (vsync, shaders, color management, etc), but if you turn most extra features off, it doesn't really offer anything extra.
Still, its internal processing is designed with those features in mind, which does reduce its performance in comparison to vanilla EVR. Vanilla will for example use the GPUs built in scaler to scale the video (which can even be better quality on Intel, probably worse quality on AMD), while EVR-CP does it with Shaders.

[v0lt]

VRM-7 Windowed - it was the most stable renderer on my old computer (old graphics + WinXP).
EVR - much more stable than EVR-CP and EVR-Sync.

Old Renderer, one Null and Haali can be safely removed. Nobody will notice.

[Keiyakusha]

Then it is possible to just add all these "vsync, shaders, color management, etc" things to the renderers settings page too, not have them only in context menu (anyway there will be many free space if all old stuff removed). and when everything will be disabled it will use clean, non-CP EVR automatically.

[Amour]

EVR Sync has serious issues itself, and VMR-9 does not support DXVA on Vista/7, so neither are a good option. You can't base a decision like this on tests on one system.

Your classification of "not working" is rather weird anyway. All your "no subtitles" are not bugs, if you read the texts on the Output selection page you would've noticed that its not meant to work with those (only the ones marked with ** work with the internal subtitle renderer), so the only thing really "broken" for you is EVR-CP (The "Old Renderer" just never worked properly on new OSes, but its provided by Microsoft so the only "fix" would be to remove it)

To diagnose further, i would suggest to disable the DXVA decoders, and see if the problem with EVR-CP solves itself, and if it does, try using another DXVA decoder.

I hope you also considered upgrading the drivers that came with the thing, the stock drivers a laptop ships with are usually very old.
I disabled all internal filters: no change at all, the same bug arises.

I already did Windows Update.
Then I checked Samsung Update and AMD Update and I already had latest drivers for everything.


EVR Custom Pres -> obviously keep
EVR Sync -> anyone uses this? Remove until JanWillem32 will finish his work


Well, I'm on Seven, and the only thing that works currently is VMR-7/9 or EVR Sync.
I don't see why we would remove what works and keep what doesn't.

[Keiyakusha]

VMR-7/9 or EVR Sync.
I don't see why we would remove what works and keep what doesn't.
I didn't said to remove all VMR, at least one of them should stay anyway for XP users. And I hardly believe that EVR-CP doesn't works. Most likely you have something misconfigured or something else in your system is broken. If that's the case its not a reason to keep Sync. Just use VMR.
EDIT: By the way make sure your DirectX is up to date. I think it can't be received through Windows Update. Make sure MPC-HC is latest too. And try MadVR (works most stable for me).

[Underground78]

Google Code no longer hosting an SVN mirror?
The svn mirror on Google Code is broken, it will probably be removed. You can use the mirror on GitHub instead (it has SVN support, just checkout https://github.com/mpc-hc/mpc-hc/trunk for example).

[diply]

I notice when i put two or more video files into playlist it wont to switch to on a next video. What is the problem?
I have the latest ver. of MPC HC x86

No help for me?

[wanezhiling]

Keep these renderers:

Overlay Mixer: for those who has a very old card and sticks to XP.
VMR9 windowed: for those old dx9 cards like 7600gt, XP of course.
VMR9 Renderless: for those who has a newer card(dx10 @least) and sticks to XP.
EVR: need no reason
EVR CP: as above
madVR: as above
Haali: ...I dont know.

[namaiki]

Haali's renderer is good for testing purposes. Same to most of the others that people don't normally use.

[Hera]

Keep these renderers:

Overlay Mixer: for those who has a very old card and sticks to XP.
VMR9 windowed: for those old dx9 cards like 7600gt, XP of course.
VMR9 Renderless: for those who has a newer card(dx10 @least) and sticks to XP.
EVR: need no reason
EVR CP: as above
madVR: as above
Haali: ...I dont know.

LOL WUT?

Overlay doesn't do subtitles and renders all the frames which will actively desync everything if CPU don't keep up.

VMR9 doesn't need no NV 76xx to work O.o

Only MadVR requires middle to high end DX10 GPU and a good CPU to top that.

Haali is great for low end systems

[clsid]

Windows Renderers:

Overlay Mixer
VMR-7 (windowed)
EVR

These are all useful. Used by plenty of people. Removing doesn't reduce executable size. Must all be kept.

Third party renderers:

Haali
madVR

These are all useful. Used by plenty of people. Removing doesn't reduce executable size. Must all be kept.

MPC-HC custom renderers:

VMR-7 (renderless)
VMR-9 (renderless)
EVR Custom Presenter
EVR Sync

These four renderers are the only ones for which there is any significant amount of code in the source of MPC-HC!!!

The VMR-7 renderer is obsolete and can be removed.
VMR-9 is frequently used on XP. It will be improved in the future.
The two custom EVR renderers will be merged and replaced by a single new (and better) custom EVR renderer in the future.

JanWillem32 is working on the improved custom renderers.

The custom renderers are mostly only useful when wanting to use features like DXVA, ISR, or shaders. When not needing those features, the Windows renderers and third party renders are often a better choice. Those have lower overhead.

Synonyms:

System Default
Old Renderer

System Default just means no renderer is forced. In practice this results in the standard renderer from Windows to be used, which is either VMR-7 (windowed) or EVR.
Old Renderer equals Overlay Mixer.
These synonyms could both be removed.

Other:

Null Renderer (2x)

It is funny how n00bs complain that this one doesn't work for them when it doesn't show any video. Discarding the video is exactly what it is supposed to do.
These two renderers are not useful for normal users and should be removed.

Subtitles:
The ISR only works with the custom and third party renderers. DirectVobSub can render subs with all renderers (but doesn't support DXVA).

[ryrynz]

No help for me?

It wouldn't hurt to uninstall completely and reinstall and try again.

If that doesn't work we'll need more information, please detail your setup (splitter, renderer, decoder etc)

[namaiki]

System Default just means no renderer is forced. In practice this results in the standard renderer from Windows to be used, which is either VMR-7 (windowed) or EVR.


I get the feeling that when System Default is selected on my laptop VMR9 is used when Aero is enabled and Overlay Mixer when Aero is disabled. Not sure if that could be useful for anyone. Not useful for me though.

[wanezhiling]

LOL WUT?

Overlay doesn't do subtitles and renders all the frames which will actively desync everything if CPU don't keep up.

VMR9 doesn't need no NV 76xx to work O.o


Overlay must be kept, whatever.

If you played many cards like me, gf6 gf7 gf8 gf9 200 400 500 600, you'd know that the theory is sometimes "thin" in reality.:)

[wanezhiling]

Windows Renderers:

Overlay Mixer
VMR-7 (windowed)
EVR

These are all useful. Used by plenty of people. Removing doesn't reduce executable size. Must all be kept.

....
...

Subtitles:
The ISR only works with the custom and third party renderers. DirectVobSub can render subs with all renderers (but doesn't support DXVA).
We have almost the same opinion, keep Overlay Mixer,VMR9 Renderless,EVR,EVR CP,madVR,Haali. The only difference is that you chose VMR7 windowed while I preferred VMR9 windowed to be kept.:)

[Virtual_ManPL]

Yep, removing
-System Defalut
-Old Renderer
-Null (anything)
-Null (uncompressed)
is a good option.

Others can stay probably.


I will also remove RealMedia Video and QuickTime Video options. They're obsolete in many ways.


Nice will be also when MPC-HC will be setting by default preferred renderer which support subtitles based on base OS.

[Keiyakusha]

clsid
You all the time say "it is used by..." but never explain how these things are actually useful. Are you sure it is used not because people have no idea what to use and how to use that's why they use it? Just because someones uses it its not the reason to keep it. Force them to use better thing instead, make it simpler and easier to set up properly. It is not about making codebase clean, it is about removing crap.
Haali useful? Can't be true. If someone will convince Haali to make his renderer opensource so its bugs will be possible to fix, then It will be useful. But that won't happen.

[Virtual_ManPL]

Fully agreed. As for Haali, it's only useful for ordered chapters.

[LigH]

Don't confuse the renderer with the splitter.

[Virtual_ManPL]

Ahhh, lolz, true... xD
Sorry about that.

[clsid]

clsid
You all the time say "it is used by..." but never explain how these things are actually useful. Are you sure it is used not because people have no idea what to use and how to use that's why they use it? Just because someones uses it its not the reason to keep it. Force them to use better thing instead, make it simpler and easier to set up properly. It is not about making codebase clean, it is about removing crap.
Haali useful? Can't be true. If someone will convince Haali to make his renderer opensource so its bugs will be possible to fix, then It will be useful. But that won't happen.What YOU think is best isn't always the best for others, certainly not on older versions of Windows or on slower computers. I am not going to elaborate since you are obviously clueless. This whole discussion is totally pointless since the developers are smart enough to ignore n00bs.

[LigH]

Aren't you getting a little bit personal now?

[Keefa]

What YOU think is best isn't always the best for others, certainly not on older versions of Windows

Thank you! It's good to see people who prefer using XP aren't completely ignored.

[Keiyakusha]

What YOU think is best isn't always the best for others, certainly not on older versions of Windows or on slower computers. I am not going to elaborate since you are obviously clueless. This whole discussion is totally pointless since the developers are smart enough to ignore n00bs.

I see, so basically you don't care about users. You don't want to make things easier for them by saying it is good how it is now, on the other hand you don't want to explain why these things are so good, so others may benefit from using it too (if that's really true, looks more like your imagination). Also you probably want to re-read my posts. I always said VMR renderer for XP users should be kept, just not all 4 of them.

[clsid]

I actually care a lot about other users. And contrary to you I interact with and help many MPC-HC users with problem solving. I know about users needs and problems. That is why I don't make dumb egoistic suggestions. You don't make things simpler by removing renderers, you only limit peoples choices. The majority of people will never change the default recommended renderer, unless they run into problems.

The amount of people that has problems with EVR CP can be reduced by disabling VSync by default on Windows7/8. The algo is buggy and does a worse job than the standard VSync functionality of Aero. This has been suggested by JanWillem32 as well.

[dukey]

You don't make things simpler by removing renderers, you only limit peoples choices.

People can use legacy builds. Just try watching DVDs with mpc-hc and you will realise how hopeless the situation is.
From a support point of viewing, having like 10 options for renderers must be a ridiculous nightmare.

[clsid]

And what problems with DVD might that be, and how is removing renderers going to solve that? The default one isn't going to be removed, so either the problem is due to your own choice of using a different renderer, or nothing is going to change.

If you are referring to problems with DVDs and Haali/madVR, then that is totally off-topic. That is due to MS copyright protection features. It must be solved by using a custom DVD navigation filter. Removing renderers won't do jack shit.

[ForceX]

I'd also like to have Null (any) renderer kept. It sometimes helps me listen to music videos without burning laptop charge. I don't see the argument for making it easy for "people". What kind of people actually bother to change the default renderer and can not read the pop-up description?

[kasper93]

You should write yours suggestions about renderers on the trac http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/ticket/2235 Not all devs read this thread.

[pirlouy]

Negative (I think).
The trac has to be reserved for developers. It will be an endless discussion between users.

I don't need all these renderers, but if developers (like clsid) consider they don't bother in terms of code, then so be it.

[chros]

I'd also like to have Null (any) renderer kept. It sometimes helps me listen to music videos without burning laptop charge. I don't see the argument for making it easy for "people". What kind of people actually bother to change the default renderer and can not read the pop-up description?
I completely agree with you and clsid.
I'm using MPC/MPC-HC for years, "installed" on hundreds of windows (for friends, for schools), and these large renderer selection is one of the best feature of MPC-HC ...

[Lincoln Burrows]

Have you guys had any trouble playing WMV videos in MPC-HC?

I have a Q9450, 2 GB/RAM (I know, insufficient memory, but I can still use normally), Windows 7/32bit. I never had problems playing HD videos until... now. I tried a WMV file with 3 GB and 30 minutes, full-HD (1920x1080), and... my PC was so slow, I mean, so slow, that I had to force a reset. In the second time I had to use control+alt+del, and I saw it wasted at least 1 GB/RAM to play that file. This thing was soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow that it was unbelievable!

However, I tried using VLC to play that same file and it worked... no slowdowns, no problems...

And currently I am using...

http://i.imgur.com/rQnsg.png

But I don't think that applies to WMV contents.

Any ideas on what happened here?

[Underground78]

If you are using LAVFilters you should probably report the problem to nevcairiel. You can also try the internal decoders who knows maybe it will work better for you.

[v0lt]

@devs
The latest versions of the player falls into debug mode when I open the VOB files.
Anybody watching this?

[betaking]

S.Chinese update to rev.5364
http://www.mediafire.com/?ahkdq3z7rlwaf17

[Aleksoid1978]

@devs
the latest versions of the player falls into debug mode when i open the vob files.
Anybody watching this?

:) ...

[v0lt]

@devs
The latest versions of the player falls into debug mode when I open the VOB files.
Anybody watching this?
The problem appears if in options select VMR-9 (renderless).

[Amour]

The amount of people that has problems with EVR CP can be reduced by disabling VSync by default on Windows7/8. The algo is buggy and does a worse job than the standard VSync functionality of Aero. This has been suggested by JanWillem32 as well.
Is there some version of MPC-HC where VSync is disabled with EVR CP so I could test it out on my "new" notebook to see if it fixes the issue I'm encountering?

[nevcairiel]

Is there some version of MPC-HC where VSync is disabled with EVR CP so I could test it out on my "new" notebook to see if it fixes the issue I'm encountering?

You can just disable it yourself - just play a file and press "V", its the hotkey for VSync in EVR-CP.
Alternatively, you can navigate there in the Menu, under View -> Renderer Settings -> Vsync

[Underground78]

The problem appears if in options select VMR-9 (renderless).
If you are using the internal MPEG2 decoder I have always seen that happenning in debug mode. Since it works fine in release mode I've never really tried to understand the problem.

[betaking]

S.Chinese update to rev.5393
http://www.mediafire.com/?b584ex550a8c0wd