Media Player Classic Home Cinema (MPC-HC) - DXVA!

[pancserzso]

Is the official build any special, or went through some special testing, or its just because the last one was old and buggy? Shell I just use the newest SVN like before or I should stick with the official one for some time?

[MPC-HTPC]

IMHO, you can stick to the latest SVN builds, if they don't cause any major problems regarding your special viewing habits. If you totally want to be on the safe side and wait for new features to be thoroughly tested before they are released to the public, you should use the latest stable build 1.4.2499.0.

Please be aware that both versions are not error free, as you can also see on all the open issues on the trac. Anyhow, the MPC-HC Team is doing great work to offer us the best player available! :)

[vBm]

In "options" tree, why not put contents of the "database" tab into "misc" under "subtitles"?
EDIT: And looks like "auto-load subtitles" together with "subtitle load order" will be fine in "Misc".

That is already planned.

Soon there will be a lot of Options refactoring (reordering things to fall under better places)

[a_afra]

And the gray ramp is still crappy with 8 bit output and floating point processing. (I can't notice the benefit of the FP mode. It simply doesn't show any effects.)
madVR looks much better in 8 bit mode (nice and smooth gradient) and it is much better in 8 bit + dithering mode.

That's because madVR does not use EVR, which by default feeds undithered 8-bit RGB to the renderer. So the quality degradation doesn't happen inside MPC's renderer. If you enable the "Force 10-bit RGB Input" option, you should get a perfectly smooth gradient.

[Underground78]

@renq, shahed26 and all people who use DVB features of MPC-HC :

Would you find useful to have something like this : http://i.imagehost.org/0283/DVB_FTA.png with a new column to show if the channel is encrypted or not ? Later I will probably add a checkbox to make scanning only detect channels which are not encrypted.

[Alexander01]

Hi Alexander01,

have you opened a ticket on the trac for this issue? Otherwise the chances are quite high, that the bug gets lost in this thread and no dev will ever look at it.

How to report a bug (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/wiki/Bugs_-_Reporting)

Open a new ticket (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/mpc-hc/newticket)

Added :)

[janos666]

That's because madVR does not use EVR
Oh, well... What a surprise! I would never think that mdVR is not EVR. :p (Sorry. :rolleyes:)

which by default feeds undithered 8-bit RGB to the renderer. So the quality degradation doesn't happen inside MPC's renderer.
Ok. (But it doesn't really matter when the final result is bad.)

If you enable the "Force 10-bit RGB Input" option, you should get a perfectly smooth gradient.
No, I don't! "The floating point processing" and "force 10 bit input" options don't cause any noticeable changes on the grayscale test pattern. (I tried to restart the player after the changes.)
And the 10 bit output option causes errors (I mentioned it above) but the gray scale (presented in the reduced dynamic range) is not smooth either.

[Thunderbolt8]

is there actually a possibility to get full sized screenshots with EVR renderer? what I mean is that my screen only has a resolution of 1680 and when I try to take screenshots from blu-rays, then the resolution is 1680 (or smaller when its not fullscreen) and not the original size of 1920.

[janos666]

is there actually a possibility to get full sized screenshots with EVR renderer? what I mean is that my screen only has a resolution of 1680 and when I try to take screenshots from blu-rays, then the resolution is 1680 (or smaller when its not fullscreen) and not the original size of 1920.

May be there is a much simple and better solution but I think I would solve this problem with an emulated secondary display which I set to 1920x1080 (a little DVI->Dsub adapter with some resistors in the specific pins < google).

Oh, sorry. I can remember that BSPlayer has an option to save a sreenshot in the original size (original source [luma] resolution...).

[Thunderbolt8]

dont have bsplayer and the other thing already sounds too complicated for me. what other options do I have? would prefer madVR, its not possible to do screenshots yet with it. haali can save full size, but gives the picture a too redish push (which is bad for a comparison I plan to do in which especially the difference of colours is important). other progs? need something that can do accurate shots of same frames and which isnt acting like a mess when little steps forward are needed.

[pancserzso]

is there actually a possibility to get full sized screenshots with EVR renderer? what I mean is that my screen only has a resolution of 1680 and when I try to take screenshots from blu-rays, then the resolution is 1680 (or smaller when its not fullscreen) and not the original size of 1920.

I am not an expert or know anything about the workings mpc-hc, but I always took full resolution screenshots of 1080p material on my laptop with 1366x768 screen, EVR renderer, ati 5650 using the standard file / save thing.

[XPC]

Here is my filters used in DVT-T mode :

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/5643/filtersr.jpg

Your configuration is OK. I tested with a Pinnacle 310i on Win 7 32 bits and worked OK for me, so I don't see why yours shouldn't be working:
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=56j4dmsqraphjbe&thumb=4
http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=56j4dmsqraphjbe&thumb=4

Let's try the following:
1- First of all, we have to make sure that the device is working properly. Could you check using a different software and see how many channels you get and the range of frequencies?
2- Could you describe how is your scanning process (how long does it take from the start to finish, are the F and Q bars green at some point , any message,etc.)?

XPC

[shahed26]

@renq, shahed26 and all people who use DVB features of MPC-HC :

Would you find useful to have something like this : http://i.imagehost.org/0283/DVB_FTA.png with a new column to show if the channel is encrypted or not ? Later I will probably add a checkbox to make scanning only detect channels which are not encrypted.

Underground78, any improvements are most welcome. Yes that would be very usefull. We just need the very basic functions of DVB, eg, as I mentioned before, a recording option (UI friendly), EPG etc

Once those features make their way in to MPC, then later DVB-S can support can be added as well.

[Underground78]

Underground78, any improvements are most welcome. Yes that would be very usefull. We just need the very basic functions of DVB, eg, as I mentioned before, a recording option (UI friendly), EPG etc

Once those features make their way in to MPC, then later DVB-S can support can be added as well.

I am not sure if a recording option could be added but EPG is in my to-do list (well my try-to-do list at least).

[shahed26]

I am not sure if a recording option could be added but EPG is in my to-do list (well my try-to-do list at least).

Thats great, cant wait to see the EPG feature making its way into MPC. I only need EPG and a Recording feature (Hopefully the recording feature becomes 2nd on your todo list).

I would definitely not suggest anymore features, because thats one of reason why I Love MPC, simple, and not bloated.

I dont know if DVB-S is being worked on or not, but would love to see DVB-S support making its way into this great media player.

Thanks Underground78, appreciate all the hard work being put on this great MPC project !

[tetsuo55]

I've opened a thread where everyone can enter logo's and explorer icon packs for mpc-hc.
There will be a contest for the new default ones.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156694

[XPC]

@renq, shahed26 and all people who use DVB features of MPC-HC :

Would you find useful to have something like this : http://i.imagehost.org/0283/DVB_FTA.png with a new column to show if the channel is encrypted or not ? Later I will probably add a checkbox to make scanning only detect channels which are not encrypted.

Please, make sure you add this information for each in the channel information part in the ini config file as well.

I believe the first priority should be making the application more robust and giving more information on the exceptions thus improving the robustness perception. Having information on encrypted channels will allow us to show a message when selecting this channel, instead of just having a black screen, improving the users perception.

If you add a filter for the channels to be detected by Scan, you could also filter some invalid channels that are currently detected (in my case their description is null, being probably future channels).

There are some important issues that have to be addressed:
1- Integration with the internal decoders: H.264 internal decoders are currently not working with DVB-t and there are some AR issues that have to be addressed with the internal MPEG-2.
2- Integration with madVR renderer: it is currently working but we found some issues (see this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1442134#post1442134))
3- Supporting as much devices as possible. We need people testing their devices for this. We have been adding more error messages and controls, as well as debug information.

Regarding EPG, I would start with a "Now and next" feature as a first step and then we could be adding more things step by step, but keeping MPC-HC simple.

Some other small improvements that could be done easily would be adding persistence when selecting audio for each channel (i.e if I select AC3 audio for one channel then I switch to another channel and then I switch back to the previous channel I should still get the selected AC3 audio).

If I'm not wrong, a very simple recording option is already there. At some point we will have to take a look to what is currently existing in the application and check whether is working or not and how to fix it/improve it, but I believe this is not top of the list.

Regards

[v0lt]

Does anyone need the support of audio format IMA4?

...
mpc-hc_x86_ima4.7z (http://www.mediafire.com/?mpuo3tph49o6zom)

ima4.patch (http://www.mediafire.com/?hx8kua3a6kcdywc)

[Underground78]

Please, make sure you add this information for each in the channel information part in the ini config file as well.

Yes, I will do that (in fact I don't even have the choice because of the way the scan works).

I believe the first priority should be making the application more robust and giving more information on the exceptions thus improving the robustness perception. Having information on encrypted channels will allow us to show a message when selecting this channel, instead of just having a black screen, improving the users perception.

Sure !

If you add a filter for the channels to be detected by Scan, you could also filter some invalid channels that are currently detected (in my case their description is null, being probably future channels).

Well, if you give me a way to detect them (like description is null), then it should not be a problem.

There are some important issues that have to be addressed:
1- Integration with the internal decoders: H.264 internal decoders are currently not working with DVB-t and there are some AR issues that have to be addressed with the internal MPEG-2.

Yes, but I still have a lot to learn about the way it works before I can help you on this. :o

2- Integration with madVR renderer: it is currently working but we found some issues (see this post (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1442134#post1442134))

Same than 1 ...

3- Supporting as much devices as possible. We need people testing their devices for this. We have been adding more error messages and controls, as well as debug information.

Yes and of course we will need help from the community for that !

Regarding EPG, I would start with a "Now and next" feature as a first step and then we could be adding more things step by step, but keeping MPC-HC simple.

Yes, that is exactly what I want to try (first with the "now").

Some other small improvements that could be done easily would be adding persistence when selecting audio for each channel (i.e if I select AC3 audio for one channel then I switch to another channel and then I switch back to the previous channel I should still get the selected AC3 audio).

Yep, should be easy.

If I'm not wrong, a very simple recording option is already there. At some point we will have to take a look to what is currently existing in the application and check whether is working or not and how to fix it/improve it, but I believe this is not top of the list.

I don't even know it exists ... :eek:

[Ryo94]

Well while with catalyst 10.8 + MPC-HC 1.4.2 I can play that sample with DXVA I just found that now all x264 file encoded with low bitrates (800-1000kbps L4.1) looks like sh*** full of artifacts and totally washed out, the problem seems to be the damn catalyst driver. I just restored the system and leave Seven to install the video driver (v8.63 that belong to catalyst 9.7) and installed again MPC-HC 1.3.1249, I can't get DXVA in all x264 files but at least all play more or least fine in terms of quality.

[janos666]

Well, I was happy about the WASAPI support in MPC Audio Renderer but I had to reinstall ReClock.
MPC-AR worked in WASAPI mode but I randomly lost the sound (complete silence until I restarted the player).

[sneaker_ger]

Well while with catalyst 10.8 + MPC-HC 1.4.2 I can play that sample with DXVA I just found that now all x264 file encoded with low bitrates (800-1000kbps L4.1) looks like sh*** full of artifacts and totally washed out, the problem seems to be the damn catalyst driver. I just restored the system and leave Seven to install the video driver (v8.63 that belong to catalyst 9.7) and installed again MPC-HC 1.3.1249, I can't get DXVA in all x264 files but at least all play more or least fine in terms of quality.

Are you sure that the difference is the bitrate? It is known that DXVA is unusable for SD resolutions with current ATI drivers.

[Alexander01]

I just tested the madVR renderer and it looks sharper and more precise then 'EVR Custom' with 'Bicubic A=-1.0 (PS 2.0)'. But I cannot use subtitles with the madVR renderer? Also, is the color output 10-bit with this renderer?

[Thunderbolt8]

I am not an expert or know anything about the workings mpc-hc, but I always took full resolution screenshots of 1080p material on my laptop with 1366x768 screen, EVR renderer, ati 5650 using the standard file / save thing.
ye, it worked with evr custom, just not with the normal evr renderer -.-

[Ryo94]

Are you sure that the difference is the bitrate? It is known that DXVA is unusable for SD resolutions with current ATI drivers.

I didn't know that, indeed those low bitrate movies are 848x352 so that must be the problem, but what is strange is that I can play them fine with the old ATI drivers that Win7 installs automatically and MPC-HC 1.3.1249 :confused:
Like I said the problem seems to be the latest catalyst drivers, this is the 2nd time I installed the catalyst driver just to get problems, time ago I installed v10.5 of that driver package and got crash and freezes all the time.

[namaiki]

Yeah, in the newer drivers they broke DXVA for SD material, but DXVA for HD material is better. (according to what I have heard)

MPC Video Decoder has an option to disable DXVA for SD. Just double click H.264/AVC(DXVA) under Internal Filters to set it.

[Ryo94]

Thanks namaiki :)
Looks like this problem began with catalyst 10.2, anyway the problem is discussed in AMD forums (http://forums.amd.com/game/messageview.cfm?catid=279&threadid=135419), no response yet from AMD/ATI people on this issue.

[yesgrey]

I just tested the madVR renderer ... is the color output 10-bit with this renderer?
No, it's 8 bit, but dithered from 32 bit FP / 16 bit internal processing, which should give better quality than plain 10 bit.

[mark0077]

Before I report on the bug tracker, can anyone reproduce crashes when moving around the mpc-hc playing quicktime files. Just unsure if its itunes 10 that caused it or mpc-hc.

[niksus]

Nope, can't reproduce it.

[BatKnight]

Before I report on the bug tracker, can anyone reproduce crashes when moving around the mpc-hc playing quicktime files. Just unsure if its itunes 10 that caused it or mpc-hc.
You have to be more specific. Do you mean seeking, when you said moving around? Are you using Reclock? And are you using Quicktime or DirectShow?

Bat

[namaiki]

What version of Windows are you using? Which build of MPC-HC are you using? What filters are popping up in - Play-> Filters? Also, post a sample if you can and are you using DXVA? If so, please specify what your graphics card is and what drivers etc you are using.

[mark0077]

You have to be more specific. Do you mean seeking, when you said moving around? Are you using Reclock? And are you using Quicktime or DirectShow?

Bat

I meant to say when moving around the mpc-hc window by dragging the window with the mouse. I'm using whatever is default for mpc-hc quicktime renderer. Neither reclock or ffdshow get loaded when I play quicktime files. It just seems like mpc-hc on its own.

[janos666]

A stupid question about the 10 bit support: Do I need an officially 10 bit capable VGA card?

I read some old post, so I installed Catalyst 10.5 WHQL to start with and I tried to set up the 10 bit mode in MPC-HC 1.4.2537 (MSVC2010).
I also realized that I need to use the built in FFMPEG MPC decoder (instead of external FFDShow or the DXVA MPC one). I can get:
8 bit surface,, 10 bit back-buffers, 8 bit display mode - It works but I am not satisfied with the IQ.
10 bit surface, 10 bit back-buffers, 8 bit display mode - It is clearly broken, The gryscale is built from only some magenta and yellow shades.

So, I think the D3D-FS mode could not set 10 bit display modes. It is not a surprise for me because this used to be a privilege of the professional VGA products.
My display really supports 10 bit and my VGA card currently outputs 10 bit from it's calibration LUT but the CCC doesn't let me set 10 bit display mode. Professional SKUs with the same GPU architecture would let me set 10 bit display mode in the driver's control panel.

So, should I try to softmod my Radeon VGA into a FirePro or FireGL variant? Or do I miss something here? (I don't know why but I think Radeon drivers should let D3D renderers to set 10 bit display modes right now. At least with DX11 Radeons, like my HD5850)
Or should I get a GTX3xx?

[Alexander01]

Janos, 10-bit display mode is broken since MPC-HC Revision 1826. Use 1824 and you get 10-bit display mode.

[nevcairiel]

You guys need to realize that 10bit is only supported using Display Port on Workstation Cards (Quadro for NVIDIA, FireGL/FirePro 3D for ATI, NOT gaming cards). If it showed 10bit output in earlier versions of MPC-HC, it probably was a fluke in not detecting properly that it couldn't do 10bit.

I realize 10bit output is a part of DX11, but its yet to be determined if thats really available on consumer cards. And even if, doubt the DX9 APIs MPC-HC uses will be able to use it.

Anyhow, like someone pointed out earlier, 8bit with dithering (from internal 16bit/FP calculations) is far superior to plain 10bit.
(Also, the Force 10bit Input is known to be broken in some cases -- i don't get color artifacts, but i've seen reports before of similar things)

[Snowknight26]

Whoever can modify files in the SVN should replace all instances of DXVA_TOO_MUCH_REF_FRAMES and too_much_ref_frames with, say.. DXVA_TOO_MANY_REF_FRAMES and too_many_ref_frames, respectively.

[tetsuo55]

You guys need to realize that 10bit is only supported using Display Port on Workstation Cards (Quadro for NVIDIA, FireGL/FirePro 3D for ATI, NOT gaming cards). If it showed 10bit output in earlier versions of MPC-HC, it probably was a fluke in not detecting properly that it couldn't do 10bit.

I realize 10bit output is a part of DX11, but its yet to be determined if thats really available on consumer cards. And even if, doubt the DX9 APIs MPC-HC uses will be able to use it.

Anyhow, like someone pointed out earlier, 8bit with dithering (from internal 16bit/FP calculations) is far superior to plain 10bit.
(Also, the Force 10bit Input is known to be broken in some cases -- i don't get color artifacts, but i've seen reports before of similar things)

I know that (all?) the HD cards from ATI internally do processing in 10bit and allow output of 10bit, but only using D3D exclusive fullscreen mode!!

[Alexander01]

You guys need to realize that 10bit is only supported using Display Port on Workstation Cards (Quadro for NVIDIA, FireGL/FirePro 3D for ATI, NOT gaming cards). If it showed 10bit output in earlier versions of MPC-HC, it probably was a fluke in not detecting properly that it couldn't do 10bit.

I realize 10bit output is a part of DX11, but its yet to be determined if thats really available on consumer cards. And even if, doubt the DX9 APIs MPC-HC uses will be able to use it.

Anyhow, like someone pointed out earlier, 8bit with dithering (from internal 16bit/FP calculations) is far superior to plain 10bit.
(Also, the Force 10bit Input is known to be broken in some cases -- i don't get color artifacts, but i've seen reports before of similar things)

madVR gives more accurate colors indeed, but EVRcustom+10bit+D3D have more popping colors (more lively). Too bad i cant use subtitles with madVR ;/
This renderer is clearly sharper and more precise. Can I use the madVR renderer with ffdshow to play in WMP or WMC?

[nevcairiel]

madVR gives more accurate colors indeed, but EVRcustom+10bit+D3D have more popping colors (more lively).

What i know about 10bit, i don't think more "popping" colors is actually one of its advantages. It gives you more shades of the same color you can display (to avoid banding), but full red remains full red.
It sounds like your display switches into some other gamut, which shows you different colors when receiving 10bit mode.

Anyhow, this could be completly wrong. =)

[madshi]

What i know about 10bit, i don't think more "popping" colors is actually one of its advantages. It gives you more shades of the same color you can display (to avoid banding), but full red remains full red.
It sounds like your display switches into some other gamut, which shows you different colors when receiving 10bit mode.
Sounds like a good guess to me.

[Alexander01]

Maybe popping is not the good word. When I switch to D3D fullscreen I can see some color details that I didn't noticed before. I think this indeed because there are more color shades.

[tetsuo55]

I know that (all?) the HD cards from ATI internally do processing in 10bit and allow output of 10bit, but only using D3D exclusive fullscreen mode!!Additionally you probably need windows7 to use it at all.


Keep in mind that all the 10bit output does is prevent some minor rounding errors from occuring, errors that almost nobody will see during a movie, but that an image comparison easily detects (we're talking a handfull of pixels per 1920x1080 image)

[leeperry]

madVR gives more accurate colors indeed, but EVRcustom+10bit+D3D have more popping colors (more lively).
do you mean like PowerDVD's eagle vision oversaturated colors? more saturated colors appeal to a lot of ppl otherwise most manufacturers wouldn't be pushing them...JVC did a lot of real world experiments before deciding to go wide-gamut only, ppl were finding the colors dull when not oversaturated...the SMPTE-C gamut is used for pretty much all commercial movies releases, and it's the smallest gamut ever....the drawback is that the hero of CARS will never be as red in the movie as it is on the poster: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1038602

SMPTE-C cannot provide a deep saturated red, unlike the REC-709 HDTV gamut:

http://w3.homecinema-fr.com/forum/download/file.php?id=54246

There's nothing wrong w/ prefering oversaturated colors compared to what the mastering engineer intended....some ppl prefer their music w/ boosted bass and trebles to make it sparkle, and some prefer a dead flat frequency response.

We all see differently, just like we all hear differently....PAL DVD's have more horizontal lines that NTSC(576>480), and movies mastered in Europe also have a wider native gamut(EBU>SMPTE-C).

[Razoola]

Also, from my understanding (reading somewhere some time ago) nvidia cards do not support 10bit output through DX9, it only allows it through DX10 which MPC does not use.

[madshi]

Maybe popping is not the good word. When I switch to D3D fullscreen I can see some color details that I didn't noticed before. I think this indeed because there are more color shades.
There are not any "other" colors available, though. Just the step size between two different color shades is smaller, when using 10bit. Which is "fixed" by dithering, when using 8bit. So once you use dithering, 10bit should have no advantage, anymore, except a lower noise floor. I agree with nevcairiel that your projector probably switches to another mode when you send 10bit to it. Or alternatively, it's also possible that what you descrive as popping is the result of sharpening/detail enhancement applied by your GPU, when using EVR.

Keep in mind that all the 10bit output does is prevent some minor rounding errors from occuring, errors that almost nobody will see during a movie, but that an image comparison easily detects (we're talking a handfull of pixels per 1920x1080 image)
Rounding errors only occur if you don't use dithering. The difference between 8bit without dithering and 8bit with dithering is hard to see in some movie scenes, and easy to see in others. The difference between 8bit with dithering and 10bit with/without dithering will be hard to spot, though.

[v0lt]

to developers
What do you think about LAVFSplitter - libavformat based Media Splitter (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=156191)?

[Underground78]

I don't exactly what you are thinking about but :
It is planned for this splitter to eventually replace the internal splitters of MPC-HC.
and :
Integration in MPC-HC will be quite a while, don't expect it this year.

[v0lt]

All right. While I will write them about bugs. :)

[Dal]

I know that (all?) the HD cards from ATI internally do processing in 10bit and allow output of 10bit, but only using D3D exclusive fullscreen mode!!
Does this include secondary displays too (that's what I use for video output)?