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View Full Version : RipBot264 v1.18.3 - Simple and easy to use GUI -> IPOD . PSP . CONSOLES . BLURAY


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byteshare
2nd February 2019, 09:27
Tune --Animation isnt working. I have a Ma10 profile where tune is on default, chaning ot to animation and the encoding wont start. In DE mode it will just throggle between encoding and idle forever, chaning it to default and its all working again. Maybe its a bad command.

From the Profiles folder:
"--profile main10 --output-depth 10 --tune animation" - not working
"--profile main10 --output-depth 10" - Working fine.

If using x265 the tune animation isn't working because the x265 needs to be updated.

GZZ
2nd February 2019, 11:31
If using x265 the tune animation isn't working because the x265 needs to be updated.

It have several tune, normally I use default, but I had a animation movie, not sure how much different the animation vs default will do.

I see its version x265 2.9+14 and Animation is first supported in 3.0. Then it makes sense.

Atak_Snajpera
2nd February 2019, 17:50
I can confirm this. In my case, i narrowed it down to a couple of files that i was trying to convert from avc to 265. The extraction phase could not get the video file from it, and would (wrongly) use the video265 file that was leftover on the Temp folder from the previous conversion, resulting in a file with the correct output name, wrong video track and correct audio track. Also, ripbot showed no error.

In my view, this could be fixed in one of two ways:
1 (and best): before every new file, clear all existing items in the temp folder. This way it would fail and detect the fail because no previous file would exist that could be reused

2: Try to detect when video track extraction fails better. No idea what was causing it to fail in the first place, the file read perfectly fine, no errors, no sync problems, nothing reported wrong at all by other programs (mkvtoolnix, for example).

This is a really big problem because i also run several dozen file batches per day, and now i can't be sure if my previous conversions are right or not. This is silent data corruption at its worst, and in my case, i caught it completely by chance. I'm running the latest version (could not find any updates just now).

Thank your for your time,
fK

Done!

byteshare
3rd February 2019, 16:33
In one of the most recent updates the "Abort" / "Start" stopped working properly for me under these conditions:
1. I start a job and at some "Abort" the job.
2. I try to "Start" the jobs again.
3. A job will never start, rather it gets stuck on the "Please Wait....Gathering information..." and also gets stuck "Aborting..."

I have to kill the Encoding Client, close RipBot and restart RipBot to get a job to start again.

Done!
Awesome and thank you, that was a long standing issue...I don't know why I didn't mention it myself :)

jlpsvk
3rd February 2019, 21:20
Another suggestion. :)

Possibility to set HDR10+ metadata file for include in encode. Or better to check source for HDR10+ metadata, if present, extract and include in encode automatically. :)

forkicks
4th February 2019, 12:24
Done!

Thanks!

Also, i just noticed the program has problems when converting files with "+" in the filename ("This fileSOMETHING+OTHER.mkv" -OR- "+" in the track name ("DD+" in audio track for example). Those are valid filenames and track names, so should be supported, or renamed as a preprocessing step.

Thank you for your time,
fK

byteshare
5th February 2019, 16:42
Thank you for updating the x265 version.

byteshare
7th February 2019, 16:34
Really a small thing but on Windows 7 and Windows 10, I've noticed if you tab through the crop settings (to manually adjust), the Tab key goes from Top > Bottom > Right. Left is being skipped. I noticed if I click into left and hit Tab it goes to the ">" key, so it is out of order in some why.
I noticed this after going through dozens of files having to make small corrections, otherwise I'd probably have missed it because normally I'd just use the mouse.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 12:34
I lost power on a machine and all of the jobs are still in the temp folder but for some reason the jobs.list and jobs.state are gone.
I would guess this might have happened because the jobs.list is held open directly/constantly rather than being accessed when needed?
I don't think there is an easy way to restore the jobs.list without just re-adding all of the jobs.

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 12:53
I lost power on a machine and all of the jobs are still in the temp folder but for some reason the jobs.list and jobs.state are gone.
I would guess this might have happened because the jobs.list is held open directly/constantly rather than being accessed when needed?
I don't think there is an easy way to restore the jobs.list without just re-adding all of the jobs.

Do not touch anything (or copy temp folder to other location). I will try to implement automatic recovery for this case.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 13:42
Other decoders are not frame accurate. Especially those using DirectShowSource interface.
I have it backed up for now.

I've brought it up before, but is it possible in the batch mode to set a custom crop?
I've been using the auto crop, but it doesn't always get it right.

Right now I have about 78 files that should all have a crop of L 240 and a R 240 but many (not all) are L238 R240 and all of those have a small black line on the left side, so I'm having to go through each job and check manually, which IMO defeats the purpose of the autocrop.
I was trying to batch edit the crop with the jobxxxx.avs and jobxxxx.ini, but that doesn't seem to be enough because the crop isn't taking for during the encode. After editing the two files if I go into the AviSynth Filters the crop setting is still set to Do not crop, however if I look at the script "Show Video Scrpit" I do see my crop settings.
Is there another location I need to edit?

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 13:47
Right now I have about 78 files that should all have a crop of L 240 and a R 240 but many (not all) are L238 R240 and all of those have a small black line on the left side, so I'm having to go through each job and check manually, which IMO defeats the purpose of the autocrop.
Can you upload some problematic samples. I will try to adjust autocrop algorithm.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 15:18
Can you upload some problematic samples. I will try to adjust autocrop algorithm.
Sure, I'll do that and PM you the link once it is done...slow upload, sorry.
The ones that I originally was having issues with I already finished and have moved on, but I have some new issue ones.
But, IMO, being able to define the crop in batch mode would be more helpful because 9 out of time times it works but it leaves me still having to check every single job.

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 16:09
Sure, I'll do that and PM you the link once it is done...slow upload, sorry.
The ones that I originally was having issues with I already finished and have moved on, but I have some new issue ones.
But, IMO, being able to define the crop in batch mode would be more helpful because 9 out of time times it works but it leaves me still having to check every single job.

I prefer to improve autocrop...

byteshare
9th February 2019, 16:52
I prefer to improve autocrop...
PM Sent with test files

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 17:20
PM Sent with test files

None of your files have horizontal bars.

Right now I have about 78 files that should all have a crop of L 240 and a R 240 but many (not all) are L238 R240 and all of those have a small black line on the left side, so I'm having to go through each job and check manually, which IMO defeats the purpose of the autocrop.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 17:40
None of your files have horizontal bars.
I don't have the old files anymore, but the ones I sent also aren't working correctly. I was quoting my old message because to me I'm having the same issue, which is auto crop isn't working correctly.
In the batch I sent, some have horizontal, some vertical, and some both.
Black Jack file has horizontal bars.

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 17:42
I don't have the old files anymore, but the ones I sent also aren't working correctly. I was quoting my old message because to me I'm having the same issue, which is auto crop isn't working correctly.
In the batch I sent, some have horizontal, some vertical, and some both.
Black Jack file has horizontal bars.

My mistake ,I meant vertical bars.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 18:24
My mistake ,I meant vertical bars.
Crest.of.the.Stars.(Seikai.no.Monshou).08 has a vertical bar, or do you mean more standard 4:3 in a 16:9 file?

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 18:38
Crest.of.the.Stars.(Seikai.no.Monshou).08 has a vertical bar, or do you mean more standard 4:3 in a 16:9 file?

works fine

https://i.imgsafe.org/f1/f1004a0946.png

byteshare
9th February 2019, 18:53
works fine

https://i.imgsafe.org/f1/f1004a0946.png

Huh, didn't for me:
https://i.imgur.com/4KUtLRu.jpg

What about Cryon Shin 02?
https://i.imgur.com/AL09gTX.jpg

Did all 31 files work for you?

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 19:12
Because You use non standard DPI scaling. My app was designed for default 100%. BTW. scaling in win10 works differently than in win7. Win10 resamples content of the window and hence everything looks correctly. On other hand win7 only increased system UI elements like buttons and so on. Rest remains untouched and looks weird like you see.

What about Cryon Shin 02?
Autocrop does not crop this black line because top/bottom line is not fully covered.
https://i.postimg.cc/5yghCJxQ/Crayon-Shin-chan-02abc-English-Vitello-dub-ATTKC-AE9068-BE-002.png

byteshare
9th February 2019, 19:16
Because You use non standard DPI scaling. My app was designed for default 100%. BTW. scaling in win10 works different than in win7. Win10 resamples content of the window and hence everything looks correct. On other win7 only increased system UI elements like buttons and so on. Rest remains untouched and looks weird like you see.
Okay, so it is working as intended, because you prefer not to crop unbalanced? ie, not -4,0,0,2?
I can check on another machine that I don't have the scaling above 100% but I had a similar problem with them not cropping out the black bars, I'll look at that now.

I was trying to batch edit the crop (with notepad++) with the jobxxxx.avs and jobxxxx.ini, but that doesn't seem to be enough because after editing the two files if I go into the AviSynth Filters the crop setting is still set to Do not crop, however if I look at the script "Show Video Scrpit" I do see my crop settings.
Is there another location I need to edit?

Update (from my win10 machine):
https://i.imgur.com/3F2HkHh.jpg

Atak_Snajpera
9th February 2019, 19:23
Is there another location I need to edit?
Jobx.ini

Btw. I've uploaded new version. Check if your older jobs can now be restored.

byteshare
9th February 2019, 19:31
Jobx.ini
Btw. I've uploaded new version. Check if your older jobs can now be restored.
Thank you...I over looked that file. [update] Works great :)
Wow, the update fixed the joblist!!! Thank you again, awesome work.

byteshare
10th February 2019, 23:13
Because You use non standard DPI scaling. My app was designed for default 100%. BTW. scaling in win10 works differently than in win7. Win10 resamples content of the window and hence everything looks correctly. On other hand win7 only increased system UI elements like buttons and so on. Rest remains untouched and looks weird like you see.


Autocrop does not crop this black line because top/bottom line is not fully covered.
https://i.postimg.cc/5yghCJxQ/Crayon-Shin-chan-02abc-English-Vitello-dub-ATTKC-AE9068-BE-002.png

At least in that photo it should on the right side IMO.
To me if it is partial it should get cropped, probably why I always want the manual crop option in the batch mode...using notepad++ and doing a batch edit after the fact isn't perfect but much more work able than clicking through each job.
Next time I get the auto crop to not work correctly when it is a solid black line I'll send you some samples again.

PetBel
12th February 2019, 10:07
Since I have installed the new 1.24 version, after indexing I get the following Error on most jobs (8 of 10 last time) added in batch mode:
File e:\temp\Ripbot264temp\job1\video.mkv.ffindex_track00.kf.txt does not exist!

When checking the files in the job folders there is a video.mkv.ffindex_track01.kf.txt in every folder (number after track is different).

Is there a bug in the new RipBot version or is something wrong with my mkv source files?

Atak_Snajpera
12th February 2019, 14:39
upload some samples.

PetBel
12th February 2019, 15:13
After checking some working source files and some source files with error here is what I found:

In working source files the track order is video track (id 0), audio track (id 1), subtitle track (id 2) and charter. In sources with error the audio track is first (id 0) and the video track is second (id 1). For me it looks like that this is the problem. After changing the track order of a file with error Ripbot encoded it without a problem.

byteshare
12th February 2019, 16:29
After checking some working source files and some source files with error here is what I found:

In working source files the track order is video track (id 0), audio track (id 1), subtitle track (id 2) and charter. In sources with error the audio track is first (id 0) and the video track is second (id 1). For me it looks like that this is the problem. After changing the track order of a file with error Ripbot encoded it without a problem.

Should send some sample files to the dev so he can fix this for everyone, just my two cents.

Really a small thing but on Windows 7 and Windows 10, I've noticed if you tab through the crop settings (to manually adjust), the Tab key goes from Top > Bottom > Right. Left is being skipped. I noticed if I click into left and hit Tab it goes to the ">" key, so it is out of order in some why.
I noticed this after going through dozens of files having to make small corrections, otherwise I'd probably have missed it because normally I'd just use the mouse.

Noticed this got fixed as well. Thank you!

forkicks
12th February 2019, 16:30
After checking some working source files and some source files with error here is what I found:

In working source files the track order is video track (id 0), audio track (id 1), subtitle track (id 2) and charter. In sources with error the audio track is first (id 0) and the video track is second (id 1). For me it looks like that this is the problem. After changing the track order of a file with error Ripbot encoded it without a problem.

Just diagnosed this myself. This only became obvious when the program started clearing the video265 file. On the down side, this also means that any file where the video track was not the first one before was being incorrectly encoded (ie, it had the wrong video) before last ripbot version.

fK

PetBel
12th February 2019, 19:57
I don’t know if it's necessary to send a sample because it's easy to create such a file. Simply create a mkv with one video and one audio track, set the order of the video and audio track so that audio is the first and video is the second track. Now try to encode it in distributed encoding (Like this I can reproduce the error with every mkv). I don't know if this also happens in single PC encoding.

I also don’t know if this is a bug in RipBot. At the moment I write a script to demux and remux my mkv's in the right track order (video first, audio second). But I think if it's possible to create such a file with mkvtoolnix (I think mkvtoolnix creates only mkv's in a correct way) any software should handle this file without an error.

Someone knows if it's possible to do this (change track order) without demux/remux the mkv? I tried to do it with mkvpropedit without success until now.

@Atak_Snajpera
But anyway, I really love Ripbot especially the distributed encoding.

Atak_Snajpera
12th February 2019, 20:47
I don’t know if it's necessary to send a sample because it's easy to create such a file. Simply create a mkv with one video and one audio track, set the order of the video and audio track so that audio is the first and video is the second track. Now try to encode it in distributed encoding (Like this I can reproduce the error with every mkv). I don't know if this also happens in single PC encoding.

I also don’t know if this is a bug in RipBot. At the moment I write a script to demux and remux my mkv's in the right track order (video first, audio second). But I think if it's possible to create such a file with mkvtoolnix (I think mkvtoolnix creates only mkv's in a correct way) any software should handle this file without an error.

Someone knows if it's possible to do this (change track order) without demux/remux the mkv? I tried to do it with mkvpropedit without success until now.

@Atak_Snajpera
But anyway, I really love Ripbot especially the distributed encoding.

Do not bother! It should be already fixed in next auto-update.

SKPN
14th February 2019, 13:18
Hello,

I started using RipBot about a week ago, and am loving the distributed encoding feature. However, the last two days, I've been getting errors at the end of the encoding process that causes the entire job to fail.

Here is the most recent error file:


B:\>"B:\Installs\TV Stuff\RipBot264v1.24.0\EncodingClient.exe" "C:\Temp\RipBot264temp\job1\job1_EncodingClient.meta"

mkvmerge v31.0.0 ('Dolores In A Shoestand') 64-bit
Error: The file 'C:\Temp\RipBot264temp\video.265' could not be opened for reading: open file error.
-------------------------

Elapsed Time: 05h:35m:39s


When I look in the temp folder, the video.265 file does not exist, so it seems to be an error creating that file. I've tried changing the location of the temp folder, thinking it might be a permissions issue on C, but still receive the same error. It also occurs regardless of which PC I initiate the job from. The strange part is that it doesn't happen on every attempt. But my last three tries of encoding a 4K movie, I've received that error. It's very frustrating, especially since it doesn't happen until after the several hours of encoding are completed, and the progress is lost, forcing me to start over.

Does anyone know what might be causing this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Atak_Snajpera
14th February 2019, 13:42
Hello,

I started using RipBot about a week ago, and am loving the distributed encoding feature. However, the last two days, I've been getting errors at the end of the encoding process that causes the entire job to fail.

Here is the most recent error file:



When I look in the temp folder, the video.265 file does not exist, so it seems to be an error creating that file. I've tried changing the location of the temp folder, thinking it might be a permissions issue on C, but still receive the same error. It also occurs regardless of which PC I initiate the job from. The strange part is that it doesn't happen on every attempt. But my last three tries of encoding a 4K movie, I've received that error. It's very frustrating, especially since it doesn't happen until after the several hours of encoding are completed, and the progress is lost, forcing me to start over.

Does anyone know what might be causing this? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

1) Verify that all X.265 files have been created in RipBot264temp\jobX\Chunks
2) If yes then execute via console RipBot264temp\jobX\Chunks\CombineAllChunks.cmd
3) If video.265 has been created then execute RipBot264temp\jobX\jobX_MuxFiles.cmd

PetBel
14th February 2019, 13:57
Looks like the stability of the 1.24 is not yet as good as with 1.23. From time to time I have the problem that encoding stops. When checking the Encoding Client window it looks like in the attachement.

After aborting encoding in the RipBot window Encoding Client window looks normal with text "Aborting..." in the top left corner but its frozen. I have to kill the encoding client task to close the window.

I'm not sure yet but at the moment I think this happens if a Server PC is for example turned off (connection to server is lost) while encoding.

Are there any log files I can check to get more information about what happens?

16729

byteshare
14th February 2019, 14:33
I'm having an issue with a set of video files but not others...
The issue is I add the job fine, AVISynth Preview even works, and a 10s clip also encodes (auto-switches to non-DE mode).
When I try to encode the whole file or a 122s clip (tries DE mode) the file never encodes.
I noticed the video.mkv never gets made in the job folder. I tried manually adding that but that didn't help. The RipBot264 Encoding Server errors:
Encoding started...
""\\ComputerName\Ripbot264temp\Tools\ffmpeg\bin\ffmpeg.exe" -loglevel panic -i "\\ComputerName\RipBot264temp\job34\Chunks\2.avs" -strict -1 -f yuv4mpegpipe - | "\\ComputerName\Ripbot264temp\tools\x265\x265_x64.exe" --colorprim bt709 --transfer bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --crf 22 --fps 25 --min-keyint 25 --keyint 250 --frames 1500 --sar 1:1 --profile main10 --output-depth 10 --aq-mode 3 --ref=5 --bframes=8 --rc-lookahead=60 --max-merge=5 --limit-refs=0 --no-weightp --weightb --b-intra --psy-rd=1.5 --ctu 32 --y4m --pools "+" --output "\\ComputerName\RipBot264temp\job34\Chunks\2.265" -"
The system cannot find the path specified.

122s sample file that errors: https://mega.nz/#!BoxXAIxC!TBj0NpDhEmvRuNu7clrHOe3-obmwzpkpO4refLDrbcU

Isn't happening on all jobs but is with a few files like the one linked.

byteshare
14th February 2019, 14:36
Looks like the stability of the 1.24 is not yet as good as with 1.23. From time to time I have the problem that encoding stops. When checking the Encoding Client window it looks like in the attachement.

After aborting encoding in the RipBot window Encoding Client window looks normal with text "Aborting..." in the top left corner but its frozen. I have to kill the encoding client task to close the window.

I'm not sure yet but at the moment I think this happens if a Server PC is for example turned off (connection to server is lost) while encoding.

Are there any log files I can check to get more information about what happens?

16729
1.24 has more logging, but I can't see your picture. Generally better to post a link from an image hosting site than attaching here.

It sounds like it might be like this issue I reported:
In one of the most recent updates the "Abort" / "Start" stopped working properly for me under these conditions:
1. I start a job and at some "Abort" the job.
2. I try to "Start" the jobs again.
3. A job will never start, rather it gets stuck on the "Please Wait....Gathering information..." and also gets stuck "Aborting..."

I have to kill the Encoding Client, close RipBot and restart RipBot to get a job to start again.
This issue has been fixed from what I can test at some point in 1.24.

Atak_Snajpera
14th February 2019, 15:02
I'm having an issue with a set of video files but not others...
The issue is I add the job fine, AVISynth Preview even works, and a 10s clip also encodes (auto-switches to non-DE mode).
When I try to encode the whole file or a 122s clip (tries DE mode) the file never encodes.
I noticed the video.mkv never gets made in the job folder. I tried manually adding that but that didn't help. The RipBot264 Encoding Server errors:

122s sample file that errors: https://mega.nz/#!BoxXAIxC!TBj0NpDhEmvRuNu7clrHOe3-obmwzpkpO4refLDrbcU

Isn't happening on all jobs but is with a few files like the one linked.

Temporary solution is to remove + from file name.

PetBel
14th February 2019, 15:45
I don't click the Abort button. Encoding simply stops and the Encoding Client window looks like this:

https://imgur.com/a/xVQ3qpd

Then I click the Abort button in Ripbot window -> Encoding Client window changes to normal view with Aborting... message but its frozen and I have to kill it's task to close the window.

byteshare
14th February 2019, 16:53
Temporary solution is to remove + from file name.
I didn't even think about the filename, I guess it is like the files with Japanese in them. Thank you. I'll do that for now.

byteshare
14th February 2019, 16:54
I don't click the Abort button. Encoding simply stops and the Encoding Client window looks like this:

https://imgur.com/a/xVQ3qpd

Then I click the Abort button in Ripbot window -> Encoding Client window changes to normal view with Aborting... message but its frozen and I have to kill it's task to close the window.

Have you tried the newest version? I used to have issues with encoding stopping.

Atak_Snajpera
14th February 2019, 17:07
I didn't even think about the filename, I guess it is like the files with Japanese in them. Thank you. I'll do that for now.

Next update will fix that.

PetBel
14th February 2019, 19:13
Have you tried the newest version? I used to have issues with encoding stopping.

Yes, I use the newest version.

Since last "crash" encoding is running with deactivated restart function (this is the third button after the On and Off at each server. Right?). Until now it's working. Maybe there is the problem. Will have a look at that for the next days.

byteshare
18th February 2019, 07:15
Yes, I use the newest version.

Since last "crash" encoding is running with deactivated restart function (this is the third button after the On and Off at each server. Right?). Until now it's working. Maybe there is the problem. Will have a look at that for the next days.
I haven't had that issue on any of my machines, so it could be a bug specific to your setup...or I'm just getting lucky :)
Hope you find the cause.

PetBel
20th February 2019, 11:21
Yes, I use the newest version.

Since last "crash" encoding is running with deactivated restart function (this is the third button after the On and Off at each server. Right?). Until now it's working. Maybe there is the problem. Will have a look at that for the next days.

After 5 days of distributed encoding with deactivated restart function without any crash I think there is the problem.

Don't know if there is something special with my configuration (I don't think so) or there is a bug in the restart function. I simply use it with deactivated restart function now and I am happy like this :)

@Atak_Snajpera
If there is a problem in restart function let me know if I can help you by doing some tests.

Wishbringer
21st February 2019, 14:00
Some issues with DE:
When activating the buttons for auto-reconnect near on/off in DE Client, Client becomes unresponsitive when one of the DE Servers crashes or becomes unresponsitive.
Even closing DE Server and restarting doesn't brings a solution. Client doesn't react anymore.
Closing client task in taskmanager doesn't allow a restart of client. At restart Client stays at collecting data.
Only restart of PC helps.

sometimes (but in each DE encoding job more than one time) one of the DE server becomes unresponsitive.
For example x264/x265 stays at last frame (e.g. 2887/2888). Decoder processor usage stays at around 5%, x264/x265 at 0.1%
So maybe a AviSynth-Problem? Happens with Denoise and without.

I have one DE Client on a i7-7700K machine (with one DE Server enabled) and four Ryzen 2700x as DE Servers.
All of them are Win10 Pro 17763.292/316 pure with AviSynth+ and Ripbot is actual.

Atak_Snajpera
21st February 2019, 14:57
Some issues with DE:
When activating the buttons for auto-reconnect near on/off in DE Client, Client becomes unresponsitive when one of the DE Servers crashes or becomes unresponsitive.
Even closing DE Server and restarting doesn't brings a solution. Client doesn't react anymore.
Closing client task in taskmanager doesn't allow a restart of client. At restart Client stays at collecting data.
Only restart of PC helps.
I'm working on it right now... I've just noticed that I have some deadlocks in code.

sometimes (but in each DE encoding job more than one time) one of the DE server becomes unresponsitive.
For example x264/x265 stays at last frame (e.g. 2887/2888). Decoder processor usage stays at around 5%, x264/x265 at 0.1%
So maybe a AviSynth-Problem? Happens with Denoise and without.
Yes, you are right. Something is wrong on AviSynth side. I suspect some problem with ffms2 plugin. Maybe it incorrectly reports number of frames to avisynth.

Ryushin
21st February 2019, 17:39
Is there an option to only extract subtitles in a certain language? For me, it would be nice to extract subtitles that are my local languge and unknown.

Maybe a box in settings where you can add which subtitles languages to extract.

egres
21st February 2019, 18:12
It might sound like a stupid question, how do you rip a 3D movie and get a 3D rendered MKV ?