multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[nicchap]

Yes you had indeed told me about the PS3 settings, I quoted the wrong messages.

Here's what I get from mediainfo:

General
ID : 1
Complete name : c:\buffer\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : BluRay Video
File size : 795 MiB
Duration : 5mn 6s
Overall bit rate : 21.8 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : High@High
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 5mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 20.1 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 40.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.432

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Duration : 5mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 768 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

Nic.

[deank]

Is there a chance that you convert PCM audio to AC3 and test again? Does audio stutter or the video?

[nicchap]

Audio clips and video stutters. I'll recode and get back to you. I appreciate the time you are putting in.

Isn't late (early) in Sofia?

[deank]

Yeah.. 00:40 but i'm watching Discovery's Time Warp :) so I have some time to spare :)

[drelin]

Yeah.. 00:40 but i'm watching Discovery's Time Warp :) so I have some time to spare :)

Fun TV show with the Myth busters :)

[nicchap]

Hope you had a good rest. Recoded my original HDV AVI footage with Procoder, tsmuxed it and imported everything in multiAVCHD. Here's the media info on the file:

General
ID : 1
Complete name : c:\buffer\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.MTS
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : BluRay Video
File size : 933 MiB
Duration : 5mn 6s
Overall bit rate : 25.5 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : High@High
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 5mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.1 Mbps
Nominal bit rate : 24.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16/9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.388

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 5mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Surround: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

I tried all the settings on the PS3 but still a no go when played from the menu. I did notice that the CLPI files indicated 1080P when indeed it was 1080I. I edited the info in the file, but no change.

Nic.

[deank]

I did a small change in multiAVCHD to set properly Interlaced flags in clip/mpls files.

I asked your yesterday - what media do you use when playing the AVCHD/BDMV folder in PS3?

Your footage bitrate is quite high and I think PS3 has no restriction when it comes to XMB player, but may be when using AVCHD/BDMV structure (PS3's BD player) - there is a media/bitrate relation.

The best thing would be to burn to BD-RE disc (using button [Blu-ray for BD-R]) and see if it will stutter again.

[kenguru2005]

25 MBit HDV in AVCHD/BDMV is definitively no problem for PS3 ... tested several times with several projects. Never tested with 35 MBit as I have no cam with this bitrate. But as nearly all SAP are unable to play even those 25 MBit HDV BDMVs I fear, that PS3 reaches it´s limit at at 35 MBit HDV BDMVs.

[deank]

It is good to make a test with DVD and BD media.. I have 3 USB drives and they all perform differently. One is like 10 times faster than the other... DVD is slower than BD... so it's good to test. :)

[kenguru2005]

so it's good to test. :)
... I think I will reencode a short HDV sequence to 35 MBit with apples comprssor this evening. Let´s see, what PS3 thinks about a BDMV created with this high bitrated footage. :)

[nicchap]

OK Ladds, I will also test on DVD media (no BR burner right now). If not I will re-encode a HDV sample adn test again. I'm stuck at work (something has to pay for my toys) and will do it first thing when I get home. Thanks for looking into it as well Kenguru2k5.

Just to resume the tests I will do:

1) take a raw HDV clip and re-encode (< 25 MBit) -> multiAVCHD
2) take a Premiere exported clip and do the same
3) Burn to DVD5 or DVD9 and test

[nicchap]

Dean, to answer your question on which media I use:

Sony HDV clips edited under Premiere CS4, with a Matrox RT.X2 card. Project is then Exported to HDV AVI from Premiere, then encoded using Procoder 3 to m2v and ac3 format. I originally used the m2ts files created by Encore CS4 but those files seem to be invalid or corrupted. I will have to try with a new project when time permits.

[kenguru2005]

1) take a raw HDV clip and re-encode (< 25 MBit) -> multiAVCHD
2) take a Premiere exported clip and do the same
3) Burn to DVD5 or DVD9 and test

HDV up to 26 MBit doesn´t have to be tested as it is prooved several times: AVCHD-DVDs with this footage are always played smooth and perfect on PS3.

The question is: where exactly do the limits of PS3 concering AVCHD-DVDs beginn? 28 MBit? 30 MBit? ... 35 MBit? When does stuttering start?

[deank]

I posted few weeks ago in uncropMKV this screenshot of my PS3, playing from DVD-RW:

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/avc33mPS3.JPG

I think I noticed a momentary bitrate of 50mbps... it is a 1920x1080@24fps video. It plays smooth.

[kenguru2005]

I posted few weeks ago in uncropMKV this screenshot of my PS3, playing from DVD-RW:

I think I noticed a momentary bitrate of 50mbps... it is a 1920x1080@24fps video. It plays smooth.

Yes ... but AVC, right? :) Not that I am unimpressed by this bitrate, but:
MPEG could be a problem for PS3.

[deank]

You're, right... I forgot about it... I'll test with my only mpeg2 source of training day blu-ray... hm... it is VC-1 thou...

[nicchap]

So many tests, so little time! I wonder if framerate is a factor at all? 24 vs 29.97...

[deank]

I don't think that 29.97 should be a problem... 24 causes much more trouble :)

:D Btw I used to live in Ottawa, too.... but Kansas :) not Canada.

***

Also if you can upload to some sharing server a sample of your problem files... I'd take a look.

[rfic]

hi, dean

too many posts here, hard to find answer

i have several AVCHDs already, try to use multiAVCHD to combine them;

i name them as AVCHD1, AVCHD2, etc.

but when i add them to multiAVCHD, the order is like random, not from AVCHD1 to AVCHD2 to AVCHD3, etc

is there anyway i can fix this order?

thanks

[deank]

If you add them one by one (one after another) they'll be sorted by the input order.

[kenguru2005]

Ok ... made a test with 35 MBit 1920x1080 mpeg2 footage in a BDMV structure on PS3: stuttering!! In my experience 27 - 28 MBit is the max. bitrate for mpeg2 footage on an AVCHD-DVD for smooth playback on PS3.

[deank]

BD says for VIDEO ONLY (MPEG-2):

bit_rate_value: The bit_rate_value field in the sequence_header shall indicate a value that is less
than or equal to 40000000 bits/second.

vbv_buffer_size_value: The vbv_buffer_size_value field in the sequence_header shall indicate a
value that is less than or equal to 9781248 bits (The maximum vbv buffer size for the Main profile and
the High level defined in ISO/IEC 13818-2).

And for 29.97fps and 25 (interlaced)
The 1080 lines to be encoded or where decoded video should be placed vertically in the
1920x1080 video format are shown as follows.[43]
- Field 1: line 21 to line 560
- Field 2: line 584 to line 1123

but The 1080 lines to be encoded or where decoded video should be placed vertically in the
1920x1080 video format are shown as follows.[43]
- Frame: line 42 to line 1121

for 24 and 23.976 progressive.

[kenguru2005]

I am sure, that bitrates can be much higher than 35 MBit/s when using BR. I don´t have a BR burner so I can not test. Btw I am good with those 25 MBit (that´s the way it comes out of my sony HC3).

[navycrow]

today i ve tested a new movie (day earth stool still) with multi video tracks. 100% perfect :)

And cherry on the cake, the audio and forced subtitles works according setting preferences (which was not the case before). Have u change something to support that ??Yes - I mentioned it. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1274954#post1274954)

I saw this post, but when i spoke about setting preferences i wanted to tell about the setting preferences of the PS3 not the setting preferences of multiAVCHD. In my case [x] Force subtitle track#1 remain unchecked like before.

In my case my PS3 is set by default to play FRENCH language and FRENCH subtitles. And now it also works with multiAVCHD (only this movie made with build 538 not the others made with previous version ). FRENCH Forced subtitle is played automatically without select it.

[nicchap]

Alrighty then, back home. Thanks for testing out the bitrate Kenguru (I have the HC1 myself), and for the Specs Dean. I will re-encode everything once more and report back. It's been a long day, and I hope to have a bit of time for this later on tonight.

Dean, if you are still interested in the sample, it's MPEG2 sample (http://nicchap.com/seqDebut_MPEG2_HD_NTSC_new.split.1.ts) . It's about 50 MB and it's the source I used (or part of it) as input to multiAVCHD. Give it another 20 minutes to finish it's download. Don't waste any time on it though.

[rfic]

If you add them one by one (one after another) they'll be sorted by the input order.

Do u mean if I only have avchd1, avchd2, then avchd1 will be always before avchd2; but if I have 3 of them, the order is random?

Since every time I add one more movies, I need to recompilexisting old file,I try to add several movies at one time to save time & hard drive

[phate89]

hello..i have a question...i have a 1080p video in a mkv file and i want to play it with my ps3 and my lcd tv with resolution of 1366x768..i try to convert it with multiavchd.. first i try to convert it for usb..it gives a problem for the 4.1 format and when i try to reproduce it i can hear the audio but not see the video...so i try to create a dvd..with the same result..same error and i stil can't see the video..what i can do? sorry for my english.. i'm italian ;)

[desray]

Hi deank, any way I can create my own welcome screen? Is there a particular filename (extension jpg? png?) that I need to put and in a particular folder for it to show up (any dimension or resolution limitations if any that I need to be aware of?) - I noticed a multiBG.jpg (1920 x 1080) - is that the file that I can replace in order to get a customized welcome screen? Please advise, thanks!

[deank]

Dean, if you are still interested in the sample... It's about 50 MB and it's the source I used...

I just downloaded it.

Do u mean if I only have avchd1, avchd2, then avchd1 will be always before avchd2; but if I have 3 of them, the order is random?

I'm not sure if I understand your question.

If you have 5 AVCHD folders to add in one compilation - drag them one by one and you'll have an option to rearrange the titles within each folder ([x] Edit AVCHD/BD folders on load option)

Then you'll have one new multiAVCHD compilation. If you decide the next day to add new files/folders - add your multiAVCHD compilation (which was created by those 5 folders) and then add your new folders/files.

You can't reorder titles which were part of imported AVCHD folder in multiAVCHD - only when loading a folder and only within the playlist of that folder.


hello..i have a question...i have a 1080p video in a mkv file and ... i can hear the audio but not see the video...

Some files are encoded with settings which are incompatible with Playstation3. You need to reencode your video - otherwise you won't be able to watch it. You can try with uncropMKV.

Hi deank, any way I can create my own welcome screen?

multiAVCHD creates the welcome screen, using the background image from Menu tab (if file exists) or its own multiBG.jpg.

Another option is to create your own m2ts/mpls/clpi welcome screen and name the files 01400.****. You can use tsmuxer to create such file with audio and video and replace multiAVCHD's 01400.xxxx.

Dean

[deank]

MPEG2 sample... about 50 MB and it's the source I used (or part of it) as input to multiAVCHD.

I experience the same as you: smooth playback via XMB and video stuttering in BD-player of PS3.

Few things come in mind:

1) We all know that MPEG-2 is not part of AVCHD (and PS3 goes into AVCHD mode to play your structure)

2) For 1440x1080 (AVC) you need to use 24p or 60i (or 50i)

3) 1440x1080 is not allowed in Blu-ray with MPEG-2 codec. It can only be VC-1 or H.264

4) It is good to try moving your projects to 1920x1080@60i (59.94fps)

5) It is not the bitrate that causes the stuttering.

Dean

[deank]

uncropMKV is updated in full-download and .exe only. There was a bug when processing multiple files in the queue.

[nicchap]

Dean, I will update my project output accordingly. Thanks for taking the time and carry on with the excellent work. Once I have all the steps down, I might just publish them for others to know, although you have done pretty much all of it already with multiAVCHD.

Nic.

[deank]

Let's go for another true AVCHD structure to test with Panasonic TV / Blu-ray players.

Here is a SD sample #2 (36MB) (http://rapidshare.com/files/224421187/SD_TEST2.exe). Extract it to the root of your SDHC card and test it.

***

The idea with this sample is to use part of tsMuxeR's output (which is Blu-ray, not AVCHD despite what options you use with it) and update all CLPI/MPLS files, add proper BDMV files and make a true AVCHD structure, so that's what I did.

There are differences between Blu-ray and AVCHD audio-type-codes and extended segments (CLEX/PLEX) for clpi/mpls and the whole structure needs to be converted from tsmuxer's files to AVCHD ones.

Let's hope that it will work for your Panasonics :) as it does work with Playstation 3.

A note to all: Don't confuse tsMuxeR's AVCHD output with the real AVCHD. tsMuxer generates AVCHD-like index.bdmv file only. All other files are with BD standard.

[nicchap]

Downloaded and will test when I get home later on tonight.

Tks.

[deank]

Panasonic user (SeeMoreDigital) reported that the sample doesn't work with his TV and BD player.

Canon user (drpaulng) reported that the sample works in his camcoder.

These results show 2 things:

1) The sample conforms with AVCHD standard
2) There may be a problem/difference with AVCHD for different manufactureres (really sad :) )
*) At least ONE AVCHD compatible device recognized the content - so it's a start.

Tomorrow I'll prepare another sample for you to test again.

[dec-pvr]

No luck for me I'm afraid with the SD card test.

Tried on a PAL BD35 firmware v1.4. Just showed up as a blank card with the photo viewer.

I think one of the previous tests actually showed up with the panasonic AVCHD menu, so this seems to be a complete failure for me I'm afraiad!

Admittedly I was trying with an old 128mb SD card (only spare I could find with nothing on it!).

Maybe a newer SDHC would work?

Anyone else?

edit: Just saw the posts above, so tried in my panasonic avchd camcorder but it just shows the following message:

'CANNOT BE USED DUE TO INCOMPATIBLE DATA'

Oh well....:(

[deank]

I'll make another sample later for Panasonic devices... A weird one is this AVCHD thing.

[dec-pvr]

Update:

I can't believe I even thought to try - of course the file wouldn't work on my camcorder! (see my post above Dean's).

It's a PAL camera and the file appears to be 29.97 footage. It would never work!

I wonder if this could affect avchd playback via sd card? I know there's no problem with different framerates via DISC, but could it possibly be blocked for only PAL (25/50) framerates? I know it states that playback via SD card is supposed to be from AVCHD camcorders, so is that a possibility?

Could you maybe make two seperate tests, one with a PAL (25/50) framerate and one with NTSC (30/60)? I know this isn't strictly the same for AVCHD but might be worth a try?

Is it possible to re-code the same footage into the different standards - therefore reducing possibilty of other variables?

[nicchap]

Dean,

Your sample also worked flawlessly on my system. I have re-encoded all my HDV files in AVC format (instead of mpeg2) and ran them through your fine program and presto! all is fine now when playing as AVCHD through the menu. I do look forward to having BR playback as I'm sure the pic quality will be superior.

Mission complete and thank you all for the help.

Nic.

PS. Dean's putting in massive hours on this, if you use and like his work, give a little!

[jfcarbel]

Dean,

Your sample also worked flawlessly on my system.

Mission complete and thank you all for the help.

Nic.

PS. Dean's putting in massive hours on this, if you use and like his work, give a little!

nicchap - What was your system, was it a Panasonic BD Player or a TV?

I am getting ready to test this on my Panasonic BD30 Player. Will report back here in a few minutes.

Hey, does the card need to be formatted first in a certain way as I just bought it from the store a month ago (HP SDHC 8GB)

And if this works, I am donating again for sure!

UPDATE:
Sorry, did not work. Direct Navigator came up with some picture viewer menu and when try to play or select anything, it says no pictures found.

Panasonic BD30 running latest firmware v2.8 - which is its release note says "AVCHD and BD-V in the lastest updates".

Here and ready for more testing :)

[LDA2887]

hey Dean! i have your latest build...great app! keep up the good work! but reecntly I've been having some trouble when the movie reaches the 4gb cut...what happens is that when it gets to the cut, the video stops playing and the time continues running, hope you can help me...keep up the good work!:thanks:

[deank]

It is good idea to download the FULL setup and replace all in your old multiAVCHD (it will keep your settings).

Try again and let me know if there is a problem again. What player do you use?

Dean

[dec-pvr]

nicchap - What was your system, was it a Panasonic BD Player or a TV?

I am getting ready to test this on my Panasonic BD30 Player. Will report back here in a few minutes.

Hey, does the card need to be formatted first in a certain way as I just bought it from the store a month ago (HP SDHC 8GB)

And if this works, I am donating again for sure!

I may be wrong but I think nicchap was using the program to make a AVCHD DVD - not using the SD card test. Correct me if I'm wrong nicchap!

[deank]

Here is another SDHC AVCHD sample (#3).

Download link (20MB). (http://rapidshare.com/files/224691742/SD_TEST3.exe)

It is almost untouched and will prove if Panasonic TV/BD via SDHC will do what is expected.

I added menu, changed some thumbnails and IDs, video is untouched (from drpaulng's canon camcoder).

You're all welcome to test in your HD camcoders, too.

If anyone can send me AVCHD samples with different framerates that play in Panasonic TV/BD via SDHC - it will be great.

Dean

***

@dec-pvr: the samples are to be used with SDHC cards, not to be burnt on DVD. May be nic really tested with DVD.

To all: These samples ALWAYS work in a computer player, in PS3 or on DVD (with long file names).

[dec-pvr]

Again, no luck for me with SD card test 3.

It just brings up the Direct Navigator for pictures and displays only blank (grey) boxes where the pictures would be.

I extracted to SD card root after formatting the card in my panasonic SD AVCHD camcorder.

I also extracted just to my PC to test the files. The first two play but the last one (1400.mts I think) would not play at all.

[deank]

When you extract it creates PRIVATE at the root and then the rest in private, right?

You should get something like: F:\PRIVATE\AVCHD\BDMV\STREAM\00000.MTS

What happens when you put the card in the camcoder?

Can you download this one and check? (http://www.savefile.com/files/1512404)

If you can record 10 seconds AVCHD clip (that works with your TV) and upload it somewhere - I'll take a look at it, too.

User's manual for Panasonic BD-3x says: AVCHD format recorder with Panasonic HD cameras (V 1.0).

I'm uploading a sample#4 to use with BLANK/FORMATTED SD card. Format the card either with the blu-ray player or a camcoder - then copy sample#4.

[Bakafish]

Thank you for working on the Panasonic functionality. I can't wait to be able to just carry a SD card with me instead of my whole laptop in order to play HD video's at my friends.

[deank]

Here is sample#4 (55MB). (http://rapidshare.com/files/224719272/SD_TEST4.exe)

[nicchap]

Dec-pvr and JFCarbel:

Correct, I was testing issues that I was previously having on my PS3 using AVCHD on flash key, not BD.

[deank]

I created a small BDMV application to display some of the player's capabilities.

Here is the download link (2MB). (http://rapidshare.com/files/224809908/AVCHD_PROFILES_TEST.exe)

Extract AVCHD_PROFILES_TEST and burn its contents (BDMV folder) to a DVD if you need to test your player or copy to USB (convert filenames to 8.3) and rename it to AVCHD to test with USB for PS3 - just like you always do. Also you may want to remove some folders (AUXDATA, etc.) if you know what your player likes.

Test will show some messages:

* HD Secondary video - supported/unsupported
* PAL supported/unsupported
* Player profile compatibility
* Player BD-ROM version compatibility

Note 1 in messages means:
(Note1): "Functions indicated by "Note 1" are optional as a collective set (*1) in BD-ROM Players
conforming to BD-ROM Profile 1. From June 1 2007, the requirement to support functions indicated
by "Note 1" in BD-ROM Profile 1 shall be equivalent to the requirement specified for BD-ROM Profile 2.
For the avoidance of doubt, there shall be no requirement for a BD-ROM Player model conforming to
BD-ROM Profile 1 to support the functions indicated by "Note 1" before or as from June 1, 2007 if the
BD-ROM Player model was designed, manufactured and shipped for introduction in the market before
June 1, 2007."

Here is the "source":
http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/bd_PSR_test.jpg