multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[JoeH]

* With the extensive help from strad who is burning like 20 DVDs a day to help me with the compatibility issues between ver 4.0 and Panasonic/Samsung players - we've got to a point where the new menus will at least SHOW and won't make the player reject the disc. I'll update you when there is news about that and the [AVCHD strict] button will be gone :). (hopefully very soon)

Dean, this is really exciting. Thanks for such an amazing product.

[deank]

Thanks... I hope to get over this issue soon, too! :)

***

I thought adding of the AR frames to the small preview box will be a good idea, too:

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/multiAVCHD_sp_fs_b2.jpg

It shows the bottom part of the 16:9 frame for quick preview and you can use the guide frames for 2.4/2.35/4:3 ARs to reposition the subtitles quickly. Also the OFFSET setting is applied to the small preview (not applied in previous builds).

[Capsbackup]

deank,
I still have trouble with mplayer not working or displaying images when using reauther mode. Even when I click on the preview window, mplayer will not display the contents of these [00:00:00] or [00:00:07] files.
It does display the longer files, with audio, but these are not the ones I am looking for to blank.
Usually if I check these same small .m2ts files with MPC, it does display the warnings, etc.. ( but not always either!)
I thought you mentioned that MPC could be used instead of, or in conjunction with, mplayer if it was in the tools folder? Or was this not implemented?
Though this is not a big deal, :rolleyes: , it can get quite annoying ( and cumbersome ) having to manually open the .m2ts file with MPC to see if it should be blanked.

[deank]

The only thing you can try is to move the preview slider to the far left. If then it doesn't work - I really can't do much. :)

[Capsbackup]

The only thing you can try is to move the preview slider to the far left. If then it doesn't work - I really can't do much. :)

Fair enough, and yes I have tried that and it does work that way sometimes. I slide it and wait, then move it slightly off the left and wait.
But some of these just wont display, and I find them after reauthor completes and I test with TMT3.:( Then restart and blank a few more...:)

[kilbowie54]

I haven't used multiAVCHD for a bit but I used the new version (4.0) this week and the results will no longer play on my Denon 2500BT transport. It seems to be changes to the menu that are causing the problem. When I insert the disc, it "hangs" at the "welcome" screen and won't progress any further - no menu becomes available in order to select a title to watch. The disc will work on a cheap Tevion blu-ray player I bought from the Aldi supermarket in order to play a few Region A blu-rays I have but it won't work on the Region B Denon, which is my main machine. I'm creating the menu as I used to so with version 3.0. Is there anything I can do to get the program to work with the Denon?
Thanks

[deank]

You may try to use [AVCHD strict] button once you click [START]. It will create the same menus as in ver 3.0. Let me know if it works.

[kilbowie54]

Thanks for your prompt reply. I will try this but I'm not sure that it will work. My old Sony BDP300 would play AVCHD discs that I made using Nero 8 from video recorded on my Sony hi-def camcorder but when I bought the Denon in 2008, these discs would not play at all. I discovered that the Denon needs the "9 files and 14 folders" BDMV structure created by the likes of Pinnacle Studio 12 or tsMuxerGUI. I had to use tsMuxerGUI on the m2ts streams created by Nero from the camcorder video to create the structure that the Denon can read. As a result, I've never made anything with the strict AVCHD parameters since, because I'm pretty sure they won't play on the Denon.
I'll make a disc using your suggestion in the next hour or two and report back.
Thanks again.

[deank]

Then make sure to UNtick [x] Stricter AVCHD folder format in AUTHOR tab.

[MrVideo]

The setting exists, because it defines different resolutions and framerates. I doubt that you'll see anything on your TV if you author a disc with PAL setting and 720x576@50i or 1920x1080@50i video.

Thanks for the response, but I think you are missing the point. NTSC and PAL are color techincal standards for ANALOG video. They have nothing to do with the frame rates. NTSC color is normally uses with 525 line 60 (59.97) fields/sec video. PAL color is normally used with 625 line 50 fields/sec video. I say normally, because IIRC, there was a South American country that used 626 line video with NTSC color.

Digital video has no color subcarrier. Digital video is neither NTSC or PAL. Using NTSC or PAL to describe framerates is incorrect. Even 480i or 576i is not NTSC or PAL. The ONLY time that it will become NTSC or PAL is if the player is configured to output the video to an analog TV, at which point the player will convert the video to 525 line or 625 with the appropriate color subcarrier.

And yes, while my monitor won't display (AFAIK) 1080i25 (the number after the i is the frame rate, never the field rate), my Sony Blu-ray player will happily convert the 25 Hz frame rate into 30 Hz for my monitor (over HDMI). The Sony player incorrectly says that it is 1080 60p. Whoever wrote the firmware screwed that up. The same Blu-ray player will happily play 480p23.976 as 1080p on my monitor as well. When I finally get my projection system set up, the projector will handle all of the rates thrown at it.

Digital video is closer to a worldwide standard than ever before. Yes, there is still the issue with 25/50/30/60/29.97/59.94, the HD displays will handle all of them. Especially when using HDMI, as the player and monitor will negotiate capabilities.

The NTSC and PAL setting a bad setting that continues the incorrect believe that deals with frame rates and that it has anything to so with digital video. You only need to list the resolutions and frame rates that are supported for SD-DVD, AVCHD-DVD, Blu-ray and HD-DVD.

If someone selects SD-DVD, you need only list the resolutions and frame rates that are in the DVD standard. Same goes for the other selections. NTSC and PAL needs to be removed so that that myth is not continued.

multiAVCHD creates proper output for selected TV sets (Viera models) and AVCHD camcoders. A PAL TV/camcoder won't accept NTSC content and NTSC one won't accept PAL content. The same is true for SD-DVD output mode and NTSC DVD players.

See above. For HD camcorders, there is no such thing as NTSC and PAL. Yes, as far as resolutions and frame rates are concerned, they do not handle both 25 and 60 Hz frame rates. Describing them as NTSC or PAL is incorrect. I have a friend who lives in the U.K. who was recently in the European mainland and purchased a brand new HD camcorder. It was not a 50 Hz model, as you would expect, it was a 60 Hz model. It seems that 50 Hz models are hard to come by. so, just because you live in Europe doesn't mean that you are going to have a 50 Hz camcoder.

As for the Panasonic models, since I can't find any manuals on their support page, I do not know what frame ratyes are supported. But, as mentioned above, the Blu-ray player and the monitor will negotiate what it can and can't do.

So pleae, to be technically correct, the NTSC and PAL nomenclatures need to be put to rest as they are not digital specifications.

Thanks for the Blue-ray specs and thanks for hearing me out regarding the misuse of the NTSC and PAL definitions.

[deank]

I'm aware what NTSC (4 or 3 or M), PAL and SECAM stand for and I used all as a consumer.

multiAVCHD was initially designed to help Playstation3 and camcoder users.

1) Even in HD, ALL playstations come as PAL or NTSC. All game/video labels for PS3 come as either PAL or NTSC. I just made a picture with my phone of a title which is labeled: [HD 720p | PAL]

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/blu-pal-ntsc-2.jpg

2) AVCHD standard seems to use that tiny little bit/byte to set PAL or NTSC in one of the important files. PAL region camcoders and TV sets will not accept recordings captured with NTSC region camcoders/recorders and vice verse.

3) The TV setting defines the way SD video will be encoded for blu-ray/avchd compliance.

It is not me 'keeping the myth' - it is the manufacturers putting symbols and letters after the NAME/MODEL of their products to mark it for specific region/capabilities.

And here in Europe it doesn't really matter because for ages most players would play both standards.

May be like some developers did, I may have to switch TV selection to "Country selection" to avoid the misuse of PAL and NTSC terms.

Still, even the blu-ray documents mention PAL and NTSC,

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/blu-pal-ntsc-1.jpg

plus the coding of closed captions, plus:

A BD-ROM Terminal is always required to support 60Hz SD configurations. Support for 50Hz SD
graphics configurations is mandatory if 50Hz SD video decoding is supported by the implementation. A
BD-ROM Terminal is required to support 50Hz SD video decoding only whenever required by
particular territory or market. See Part 3-1[3] Section D.2.19 Note 2.

I know it is better to use framerates and resolutions instead of PAL/NTSC, but at the moment I don't think it will help the users (of multiAVCHD) provided the tons of other hard-to-understand options. I'll keep it that way for now.

[drpaulng]

http://sanyovideocam.blogspot.com/2009/12/flicker-test.html

Fluorescent light-scrobe is the issue with 50Hz AC power source that may flicker at 100Hz in European countries. A 60fps capturing with NTSC camcorder may cause asynchronization problem with artificial lightings.

[colinhunt]

... and the grabbed frame is there now.

I thought adding of the AR frames to the small preview box will be a good idea, too:

It shows the bottom part of the 16:9 frame for quick preview and you can use the guide frames for 2.4/2.35/4:3 ARs to reposition the subtitles quickly. Also the OFFSET setting is applied to the small preview (not applied in previous builds).
Dean, you're the MAN. I see another donation coming your way shortly...

[colinhunt]

Heh; first test using the new version, tried to re-author a single title BD and add a subtitle, and something went *ka-blooey*. In the separate subtitle preview screen I just had to fiddle with the left slider (Alignment) and was rewarded by an error message, followed by another error message, after which multiAVCHD erased itself from memory. I re-started multiAVCHD and tried to repeat the error message so I could report what it said, but this time round fiddling with the slider did not produce an error. :)

Subtitle preview did not show a screen grab, but I learned just now that it was because I had ticked the "Disable preview in Title properties" box under Settings. I unticked that and subtitle preview displayed a screen grab. Nice work!

[deank]

The 1st error probably was something about previewing the bitmap or something... the 2nd about calclib... I'll need to disable the 'controls' in the preview page while multiAVCHD prepares the preview. If you click too fast sometimes it may error out, but I'll take a look at it tomorrow :)

Dean

[MrVideo]

1) Even in HD, ALL playstations come as PAL or NTSC. All game/video labels for PS3 come as either PAL or NTSC. I just made a picture with my phone of a title which is labeled: [HD 720p | PAL]

That is because the PS3 still has analog outputs and those outputs are either NTSC analog color or PAL analog color. The PAL, in your picture, describes the SD analog output, not the 720p. It is all very confusing.

While my Blu-ray player will accept any of the standard HD resolutions and frame rates, it will not accept 576i material.

2) AVCHD standard seems to use that tiny little bit/byte to set PAL or NTSC in one of the important files. PAL region camcoders and TV sets will not accept recordings captured with NTSC region camcoders/recorders and vice verse.

Technically, nothing stops a camcorder with native 1080p50 from accepting a media card with material captured at 1080p60 (59.94) other than firmware or a crippled HD chipset. You and know that chipsets are made that handle all of the HD resolutions and framerates. I don't know if the manufacturers think the buying public is too stupid or what, but it would be real easy to make a universal HD camcoder in which you can select any of the resolution standards or frame rates. Hell, camcorders do 50p and 60p and that is NOT in the Blu-ray standard. As mentioned, HD monitors will pretty much accept anything, or negotiated with the player, what it can do. If the camcorder also supports analog output, then that tends to cripple what it can do. U.S. consumer analog TVs were never able to display analog PAL. Unlike lots of analog TVs in Europe.

3) The TV setting defines the way SD video will be encoded for blu-ray/avchd compliance.

Is it only used for SD video compliance, or do the NTSC/PAL also get involved with HD settings in your program? If only for SD video compliance, then I beg your forgiveness and I muisunderstood its usage.

It is not me 'keeping the myth' - it is the manufacturers putting symbols and letters after the NAME/MODEL of their products to mark it for specific region/capabilities.

If the device still outputs analog video, for those who do not have an HD set/monitor, then yes, the NTSC/PAL nomenclature is still needed because of the analog support. If the device is HD only, then there better not be NTSC or PAL anywhere on the device or in the manuals.

May be like some developers did, I may have to switch TV selection to "Country selection" to avoid the misuse of PAL and NTSC terms.

For SD video creation, if the intended output is for analog, then NTSC/PAL is fine. But, if the video chain is to stay digital, then NTSC/PAL is wrong. Because you really do not know the intended final usage, maybe going to a "country selection" would be the way to go.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a majority of uses of software that encodes, renders, burns, etc., knows the difference betweem 480i material and 576i material and where they are used. As I previously mentioned, I have a friend in the U.K. who has a new HD camcoder that is of the 60 Hz variety and he bought it in Europe. You would have thought that finding a 60Hz camcorder in Europe would be difficult. It was easier to find it than a 50 Hz version. The lines aren't solid anymore.

Still, even the blu-ray documents mention PAL and NTSC, plus the coding of closed captions, plus:

Because the intended output is for analog NTSC or PAL players/sets.

I know it is better to use framerates and resolutions instead of PAL/NTSC, but at the moment I don't think it will help the users (of multiAVCHD) provided the tons of other hard-to-understand options. I'll keep it that way for now.

If you only use it for SD video and not also HD video, then it is fine.

As mentioned, if I misunderstood your usage of NTSC/PAL (non-HD usage only), please forgive me.

[MrVideo]

Fluorescent light-scrobe is the issue with 50Hz AC power source that may flicker at 100Hz in European countries. A 60fps capturing with NTSC camcorder may cause asynchronization problem with artificial lightings.

Oh most definately. BTW, it is recording or capturing, not filming. I'd like to see anyone put film into a video camcorder :eek:

My friend also has one of the new 29.97/59.94 fps progressive camcoders and the 9.94 beat frequency is easily seen in video that is shot under artificial lighting (when shot at 59.94p).

He knew that going in, but still bought it anyway.

[colinhunt]

MrVideo certainly has a point. When I started testing multiAVCHD I found myself confused by (and cursing) the NTSC/PAL choices, because neither is really relevant in this day and age of digital video, Blu-ray and HD. At worst they're misleading in the context of multiAVCHD.

My friend also has one of the new 29.97/59.94 fps progressive camcoders
What camera is that, do you know the make and model?

[drpaulng]

Oh most definately. BTW, it is recording or capturing, not filming. I'd like to see anyone put film into a video camcorder :eek:

My friend also has one of the new 29.97/59.94 fps progressive camcoders and the 9.94 beat frequency is easily seen in video that is shot under artificial lighting (when shot at 59.94p).

He knew that going in, but still bought it anyway.

The primary reason for non-unification of NTSC and PAL is historical. Just like the road traffic rules, if you know the cost of renaming a single landmark/town (chain effect), then you should well appreciate why the frequency of power generator should stay as it is. However, one may route around the problem by manually setting the shutter speed according to the light flickering frequency with new models. Setting in sync with shutter speed of 1/100 against the European power source of 50Hz that produces 100Hz of light flickering (an AC power cycle consists of 2 voltage peaks, one +ve, one -ve) will help for an NTSC camcorder that captures with 29.97 fps.

[deank]

Latest update includes a feature that was bothering me for exactly ONE YEAR :) (25th April 2009, 20:33) since the support for SDHC players was added to multiAVCHD (i.e. Panasonic SDHC, Viera TV and camcoder support).

Since day one there was no chapter support and no real thumbnails for the movies/recordings.

Today I had some time and I think finally I got over both the issues. You can read about it here (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1394957#post1394957).

I'll be glad to get some feedback about both additions (chapters/scenes and thumbnails). I hope there will be no need to use FF/REW when playing from SDHC card. Chapter/scene skip should work properly now.

Dean

[setarip_old]

@deank

Hi!

I guess I read your post #5470 too quickly: Latest update includes a feature that was bothering me for exactly ONE YEAR ...Since day one there was no chapter support...Chapter/scene skip should work properly now.
Could it be? HD-DVD? Oh well ;>}

[deank]

Well... it is for AVCHD structures authored for SDHC cards only. No HD-DVD chapters yet, sorry... All takes time as you can see.

Dean :)

[f362580]

If BG audio defaults to [default] it means that the audio file you used is missing. Each time I restart multiAVCHD the setting is kept and BG audio and video files are selected and not reset to [default].
Actually it was set to "none" and it definitely resets to "default" upon restart. I'm sorry to make such noise over such a minor issue :)

[MrVideo]

What camera is that, do you know the make and model?

Sanyo Xacti HD2000

I must correct myself. Rechecking the e-mail, he bought it in Singapore while on the way to New Zealand for Xmas holiday.

[MrVideo]

However, one may route around the problem by manually setting the shutter speed according to the light flickering frequency with new models. Setting in sync with shutter speed of 1/100 against the European power source of 50Hz that produces 100Hz of light flickering (an AC power cycle consists of 2 voltage peaks, one +ve, one -ve) will help for an NTSC camcorder that captures with 29.97 fps.

I've sent him e-mail to see if this model can do that.

But, thinking about it, I do not think that will work. The 1/100th shutter time (10 ms) is the amount of time that the shutter is open during the ~33ms of the frame rate (or ~16ms for 59.94 fps). You still end up with harmonics with the 50Hz lighting.

[praneeth.gogineni]

hi deank, can you please please add the tvixie thing, it would make me so happy. im begging you.

[JoeH]

MrVideo certainly has a point. When I started testing multiAVCHD I found myself confused by (and cursing) the NTSC/PAL choices, because neither is really relevant in this day and age of digital video, Blu-ray and HD.

Personally the only option I have found to be truly confusing in MultiAVCHD is the choice between PAL / NTSC, as I had never seen it before in an HD video product.

[deank]

Build 748:

* Fixed issues/crashes when multiAVCHD processes imported BDMV structures from a read-only media (or mounted image)
* AVCHDTN folder now has properly generated THUMB.TID and THUMB.TDT for SDHC authoring modes
* AVCHD authoring modes produce proper SCENE/CHAPTER information in all MPL/MPLS playlist files

There is an official firmware update for Panasonic BDP-35 (http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/bd/download/bd35/bd35_euro.html). It will be nice to know if it fixed the issue with version 4.0 menus (using [AVCHD relaxed] button).

Dean

[deank]

Personally the only option I have found to be truly confusing in MultiAVCHD is the choice between PAL / NTSC, as I had never seen it before in an HD video product.

Oh yeah?

http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/tmpg.jpg

Ok, guys... Let's drop the subject with the TV System setting. If you think you don't need it - just don't use it and don't change it.

[cwh060]

Just a small thing with version 748.

The m2ts file preview ability of MultiAVCHD when importing a Bluray folder seems to have reverted back to the black MuliAVCHD.com screen.

Version 747 & 747+ had the ability to decode and show the small m2ts/mpls files (FBI/Copyright) previews.

Thanks
cwh

[deank]

Well... I still can preview them... And there is nothing changed in 748 about that - the changes are about SDHC output and not the preview at all.

[flaviometal]

Hello dean!

Is it possible to make a way to keep only root menu with bg audio, and remove audio from the others menus, or put different audio in chapter/scenes menus?

Thanks!

[cwh060]

Well... I still can preview them... And there is nothing changed in 748 about that - the changes are about SDHC output and not the preview at all.

Looking back, I probably picked the already processed folder where Multi had output the BDRA structure...it was early morning!

Tried the SD conversion from a BR movie, simply outstanding work Dean.

cwh

[MrVideo]

Personally the only option I have found to be truly confusing in MultiAVCHD is the choice between PAL / NTSC, as I had never seen it before in an HD video product.

If all that was produced was HD video, 720p or 1080i/p, then any use of PAL/NTSC would be 100% wrong.

But, if the output is being authored at 480i29.97 or 576i25, then NTSC/PAL only has validity if the analog output is used on the playback device. In a purely digital form, NTSC/PAL has no meaning either.

Pretty much any standalone HD playback device still has native region analog output, which is either NTSC or PAL.

What is interesting is that I believe my Sony Blu-ray player will converted 1080i25 to 480i29.97, but it won't play 576i25 DVDs. Doesn't bother me, since my computer will :cool:

[MrVideo]

Oh yeah?

Just because they got it wrong as well doesn't make it right. If a bunch of sheep were jumping off a cliff to their death, would you follow them?

As long as the release isn't region limiting, I have no problem playing 1080i25 Blu-ray discs - in my standalone Blu-ray player. That is the beauty of HD video; the players and displays can play any of the 720 and 1080 standard frame rates. It is 100% inaccurate to label any HD video as being PAL or NTSC. Just because they have it wrong, doesn't mean that multiAVCHD has to get it wrong as well.

HD video crosses borders much easier than NTSC/PAL analog video.

[drpaulng]

Well, the basic problem (The Original Sin) of NTSC/PAL is because of the local power source. The cost of unification is far much more than the relatively simple interconversion. It should be not an issue for modern equipments. Modern HDTV can accept almost all different formats and display them with a single output format apparently different from the input formats. For example, a 120Hz HDTV can display 120fps while the original Bluray disc has .h264 coded in 24fps or 30fps. My computer monitor display all kinds of video source at 60fps without causing flickering. BECAUSE: The problem is of 3 different levels.

Level 1: matching of artificial light (indoor light source) to the capturing device.
This is utmost important - no later post-processing can correct it easily.

Level 2: interconversion of different frame rates.
This is relatively easy (player). Many player directly output 24fps (including PS3), or using some internal upconversion method to output them into 50fps/60fps...etc.

Level 3: display them with a much better scheme.
This is relatively easy (TV). Many new TVs accepts native 24fps and upconvert them into 60fps or more (120fps, 240fps).

Movie theater plays film with double frame rate rather than the original capture rate. A 24fps movie is first converted to 48fps or 72fps copy film (not the original capture film) in order to cope with the flickering problem (this flickering problem is not the same as what we last discussed, the strobing flickering of 100Hz fluorescent light being capture with 30fps NTSC camcorder). In short our eye still sees light flickering with lower frame rates such as the original movie capture rate at 24fps. It is however, overcome with copy film that doubles or triples the frames in series of 2 or 3 in sequential order and is displayed at 2 times or 3 times faster.

[deank]

Those of you who want to check the latest and finally approved (http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=328) Blu-ray x264 demo disc, visit this thread (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1395353#post1395353).

Dean

[JoeH]

Ok, guys... Let's drop the subject with the TV System setting. If you think you don't need it - just don't use it and don't change it.

Dean, just a note to thank you for always responding to all the trouble and suggestions we give you with such a great attitude (I'm serious). I imagine it must be tough to put up with us. ;)

[deank]

:p Thanks!

Let's keep the thread clean for feature requests and sharing experiences. multiAVCHD has its own forum for bug reports and stuff.

ATM I don't really think that the PAL/NTSC-naming is something as important as some other stuff. :)

Dean

//

Latest 748+ build has a fix for using external Blu-ray SUP/PGS files for hard-burning as 1st external track when transcoding. The preview wouldn't show the .SUP, but now it is fixed. Also a fix for one-title compilations and SLI menu - navigating RIGHT from the SETUP button didn't work properly.

Also all AVCHD authoring modes will include AVCHDTN folder with thumbnail database. It is now properly named when authoring for DVD/BD-R, using long-filenames convention (THUMB.TID/TDT for solid-state media and thumbnail.tidx/tdt2 for optical media).

[MrVideo]

I need to dispell some false information here.

Well, the basic problem (The Original Sin) of NTSC/PAL is because of the local power source.

Not true. The video frame rates of the regions came about long before color, in the B&W days. Yes, they were tied to the power frequency. NTSC, as mentioned, is the color specification and has nothing to do with the original frame rate. PAL is also a technical color specification that added color to the 625i25 B&W video. The frame rates came first and then the two technical color specifications were added.

Movie theater plays film with double frame rate rather than the original capture rate. A 24fps movie is first converted to 48fps or 72fps copy film (not the original capture film) in order to cope with the flickering problem (this flickering problem is not the same as what we last discussed,

Sorry but this totally way off-base. Movies (35mm and 70mm) are 24 fps from the original capture in the camera all the way through projection (except when the capture is sped up or slowed down for effect when projected at 24 fps). In the projector there is a two-bladed or three-bladed shutter. That either projects a single film frame twice or thrice. The flicker is either 48 times a second, or 72 times a second, but the film is still projected at 24 fps.

[MrVideo]

Let's keep the thread clean for feature requests and sharing experiences. multiAVCHD has its own forum for bug reports and stuff.

Sorry, I'll have to go find the bug forum. I was pointed here via a link in a totally different forum (not on doom9).

[drpaulng]

I need to dispell some false information here.



Not true. The video frame rates of the regions came about long before color, in the B&W days. Yes, they were tied to the power frequency. NTSC, as mentioned, is the color specification and has nothing to do with the original frame rate. PAL is also a technical color specification that added color to the 625i25 B&W video. The frame rates came first and then the two technical color specifications were added.



Sorry but this totally way off-base. Movies (35mm and 70mm) are 24 fps from the original capture in the camera all the way through projection (except when the capture is sped up or slowed down for effect when projected at 24 fps). In the projector there is a two-bladed or three-bladed shutter. That either projects a single film frame twice or thrice. The flicker is either 48 times a second, or 72 times a second, but the film is still projected at 24 fps.

YES, you are right about the mechanism behind a projector. How it helps with combating flickering by doubling the frame rate from the original is pure mechanical rather than copying the same picture twice and print it sequentially to a new copy. I am sorry, I thought I read it from somewhere else I could not remember.

Thank you for clarifying about the name given to NTSC/PAL. They are not frame rate related? I know nothing about how the two schemes were named. To me, the most important part of NTSC vs PAL is the frame rate because they links to the artificial lightings and somehow related to the old technology of the TV set which depends on the AC power line source to generate TV scan. Because of historical (technical limit) background, the film rate is set at 25fps in 50Hz power source areas and 30fps in 60Hz power source areas. Cinema movies filming at 24fps has to be re-converted for 25fps (speed-up timing artefact) and 30fps (3:2 pulldown motion artefact) before broadcasting.

...but what is your point? What is so difficult to accept these "incorrect" namings to the broadcasting scheme? HDTV has new broadcasting technology and specifications but they are somehow related back to the older technology (so called "backward compatible"). A PS3 does not only plays NTSC SD movies (DVD), it also plays HD movies. An NTSC PS3 cannot play PAL DVD or PAL bluray disc because it is designed to output at 60fps (computer monitors) or 60i for the TV sets in the 60Hz power source area (backward compatible).

multiAVCHD helps to ease the job with "uncrop" function that also converts frame rate. You need to preset your authoring project for NTSC or PAL. A 25fps movie is not working for an NTSC PS3. So, that's all. Maybe there is a conspiracy why HDTV is not unified...commercial factors.

[deank]

Guys, come on! Please!

Once ALL blu-ray players go digital I may consider the PAL/NTSC option.

There are too many players out there which support digital and analogue output.

Playing multiAVCHD output via analogue video connectors MATTERS and then TV SYSTEM setting MATTERS even MORE.

If you want to discuss the NTSC vs PAL in the digital age, please open a new thread and don't spam mine.

Dean

[MrVideo]

Guys, come on! Please!

I've answered Paul via PM

There are too many players out there which support digital and analogue output.

Playing multiAVCHD output via analogue video connectors MATTERS and then TV SYSTEM setting MATTERS even MORE.

I'll respond to this over in the bug area.

[MrVideo]

I'll respond to this over in the bug area.

OK, I do not see a multiAVCHD bug area.

[deank]

Here. (http://multiFORUM.deanBG.com)

***

A quick update (available with multiUPDATE):

* multiAVCHD will honor the "Action after last title" option in AUTHOR tab for SDHC authoring modes. Loop playback is now possible for Viera / camcoders and Panasonic SDHC.

Dean

[Vincent Vega]

hi deank

could you please explain how to get the program not to force transcoding video (h.264 hd-dvd compliant mkv import encoded in megui) when authoring an hd-dvd. I do click "hd-dvd compliant" under alter detected properties, and i do choose "do not transcode", and yet after Start it still pops up window "Please review bitrate.." with no option to choose no video transcoding -(

thank you

[deank]

Set it for transcode. If you selected [x] (HD)DVD compliant, multiAVCHD will enter TRANSCODE routine and will immediately complete it because the file is already compliant. It will not touch the video you imported.

Dean

[Vincent Vega]

here's what i do step-by-step:

-add video only x264 mkv 1080i 29.97fps
-hit Transcode, choose Create hd-dvd title, at which time program changes fps to 23.976, i change it back to Original, hit Apply
-under Alter.. choose [x]HD DVD compliant
-add auduo and subs, hit OK
-press Start, choose HD DVD, no pop-up window this time
-program starts working, in a few secs x264 crashes, soon after multiavchd stops with this log:

[17:20:58] Initialising...
[17:20:58] Checking for new version...
[17:20:58] You have the latest build.
[17:20:58] [27/04/2010] build 748 (latest is: 748) - SDHC mode supports chapters and thumbnails. Improved processing of read-only structures. Better subtitle preview.
[17:20:58] Consistency check finished!
[17:20:58] Initialization finished. multiAVCHD is ready!

[17:20:58] 1 year and 124 days since multiAVCHD was published.
[17:20:58] 288 people supported it with donations
[17:20:58] and you are the 1587011 one to launch the program...
[17:20:58] Support multiAVCHD to extend its features and keep it going!


[17:20:58] multiAVCHD.dat version: [04000746]

[17:22:11] Checking for available space and drive types (FAT32/NTFS)...
[17:22:11] Destination [D:]: NTFS, 206591.84 MiB (201.75 GiB) free space
[17:22:11] Temp folder [D:]: NTFS, 206591.84 MiB (201.75 GiB) free space

[17:22:11] Log started for multiAVCHD v4.0 (build 748)
[17:22:11] Selected output mode: HD-DVD player (DVD R/RW disc)

[17:22:11] Processing one title...
[17:22:12] Processing (D:\---\Test Sample Series_HD DVD_1920x1080i.mkv)...
[17:22:12] This title is marked for reencoding / uncropping...
[17:22:12] Encoding process may take 10 min to 10 hours, so be patient...

[17:22:12] *** Initiating video encoding:

[17:22:12] *** Original : 1920x1080
[17:22:12] *** Crop : 0
[17:22:12] *** Resize : 1920x1080 (No change)
[17:22:12] *** Uncrop to : 1920x1080
[17:22:12] *** Sharpen : 0
[17:22:12] *** Bitrate : 17646 kbps
[17:22:12] *** Frame rate: Original (29.970)
[17:22:12] *** Level : 4
[17:22:12] *** B-frames : 2
[17:22:12] *** Ref-frames: 2
[17:22:12] *** GOP size : 14 (keyframe min. each 2 frames)
[17:22:12] *** Quality : One pass (turbo)
[17:22:12] *** SAR : 1:1
[17:22:12] *** DAR : 1920x1080
[17:22:12] *** Profile : HD-DVD

[17:22:12] *** Encoding : One pass - content: [00:00:14]
[17:22:12] *** Encoding : x264 options: --preset veryfast --bitrate 17646 --interlaced --direct spatial --keyint 14 --level 4 --min-keyint 4 --bframes 2 --ref 1 --subme 2 --mvrange 511 --partitions p8x8,i8x8 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 17500 --vbv-maxrate 17000 --qcomp 0.5 --threads auto --thread-input --aud --nal-hrd vbr --sar 1:1 --b-pyramid strict --slices 0 --weightp 0 --rc-lookahead 14 --output "D:\---\~multiavchd\_TEMP\multiTEMP-20100429\Test Sample Series_HD DVD_1920x1080i.[1920x1080-29.970].264" "C:\multiAVCHD\tools\20100429-172212-uncrop-running.avs"
[17:22:13] *** Speed : 401.51 fps (elapsed: 00:00:01 - Realtime x 13.4)

[17:22:13] *** Transcoding failed!
[17:22:13] *** Check ffdshow/avisynth/haali (reinstall)!
[17:22:13] *** DEBUG: Try to play [C:\multiAVCHD\tools\20100429-172212-uncrop-running.avs] in MPC or other player, which supports AviSynth scripts and report the error to the author!

[17:22:13] Retrying to transcode with FFMS2!
[17:22:13] Stand-by for indexing...

[17:22:13] *** Initiating video encoding:

[17:22:13] *** Original : 1920x1080
[17:22:13] *** Crop : 0
[17:22:13] *** Resize : 1920x1080 (No change)
[17:22:13] *** Uncrop to : 1920x1080
[17:22:13] *** Sharpen : 0
[17:22:13] *** Bitrate : 17646 kbps
[17:22:13] *** Frame rate: Original (29.970)
[17:22:13] *** Level : 4
[17:22:13] *** B-frames : 2
[17:22:13] *** Ref-frames: 2
[17:22:13] *** GOP size : 14 (keyframe min. each 2 frames)
[17:22:13] *** Quality : One pass (turbo)
[17:22:13] *** SAR : 1:1
[17:22:13] *** DAR : 1920x1080
[17:22:13] *** Profile : HD-DVD

[17:22:13] *** Stand-by for indexing (ffms2)...

[17:22:13] *** Encoding : One pass - content: [00:00:14]
[17:22:13] *** Encoding : x264 options: --preset veryfast --bitrate 17646 --interlaced --direct spatial --keyint 14 --level 4 --min-keyint 4 --bframes 2 --ref 1 --subme 2 --mvrange 511 --partitions p8x8,i8x8 --ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-bufsize 17500 --vbv-maxrate 17000 --qcomp 0.5 --threads auto --thread-input --aud --nal-hrd vbr --sar 1:1 --b-pyramid strict --slices 0 --weightp 0 --rc-lookahead 14 --output "D:\---\~multiavchd\_TEMP\multiTEMP-20100429\Test Sample Series_HD DVD_1920x1080i.[1920x1080-23.976].264" "C:\multiAVCHD\tools\20100429-172213-uncrop-running.avs"
[17:22:23] *** Speed : 39.44 fps (elapsed: 00:00:10 - Realtime x 1.32)

[17:22:24] *** Transcoding failed!
[17:22:24] *** Check ffdshow/avisynth/haali (reinstall)!
[17:22:24] *** DEBUG: Try to play [C:\multiAVCHD\tools\20100429-172213-uncrop-running.avs] in MPC or other player, which supports AviSynth scripts and report the error to the author!


[17:22:24] No compatible folders/files processed...


i'm on Vista64 SP2, everything else works fine, including other Multiavchd features

[flaviometal]

Dean, sorry for bother you, but can you answer this?

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1395257#post1395257

Thanks!