multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[xzerst]

For 2 days, i'm trying to author a movie with Multiavchd but it always keeps subtitles on. Like embedded...
I cant shut them off dunno why.

Tried m2ts file to play with MPC and no subtitles present, no issues with the movie.
Just installed newest K-Lite pack 2 days ago and ofcourse blamed it. Then returned to old version i always used but the sum is same...

Any idea?

BTW, i disabled DirectVOBSub already...

In the transcode and fit to media options for hard-subtitles, click on the dropdown arrow and change settings to do not use hard-burned subtitles.

[JeanMarc]

My objective is to burn a strict AVCHD BD-R for my hardware players (PS3 and Panasonic). I am able to do it successfully whether or not I ask multiAVCHD to perform the transcoding sometimes required to reduce the size of the content.

But I am now interested in doing the video compression/encoding separately, **prior** to using multiAVCHD (primarily to better control it and integrate it in my processing chain). I have been trying to find the x264 command that seems to produce an output almost identical to the one generated by multiAVCHD X264 transcoding.
Although the audio always plays well, and the video so produced plays well on VLC player, PotPlayer, Media Player Classic, it fails to play on Windows Media Player and on the hardware players (PS3 and Panasonic). The result is a menu that works, but only the audio plays. No picture.

I am using the following 2-pass HQ X264 commands:
%x264% --bitrate %2 --pass 1 --stats %1.stats --preset slow --tune film --profile main \
--level 4 --subme 6 --mixed-refs --weightb --qcomp 0.5 --merange 14 --8x8dct --trellis 2 \
--ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-maxrate 20000 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --threads auto --thread-input \
--aud --nal-hrd vbr --sar 1:1 --b-pyramid strict --keyint 48 --min-keyint 4 --slices 0 --weightp 0 \
--ref 4 --bframes 3 --b-pyramid strict --rc-lookahead 0 --no-mbtree --qpmin 10 --qpmax 50 \
--output %1.mkv %1.m2ts

%x264% --bitrate %2 --pass 2 --stats %1.stats --preset slow --tune film --profile main \
--level 4 --subme 6 --mixed-refs --weightb --qcomp 0.5 --merange 14 --8x8dct --trellis 2 \
--ipratio 1.1 --pbratio 1.1 --vbv-maxrate 20000 --vbv-bufsize 25000 --threads auto --thread-input \
--aud --nal-hrd vbr --sar 1:1 --b-pyramid strict --keyint 48 --min-keyint 4 --slices 0 --weightp 0 \
--ref 4 --bframes 3 --b-pyramid strict --rc-lookahead 0 --no-mbtree --qpmin 10 --qpmax 50 \
--output %1.mkv %1.m2ts
where %2 is the bitrate and %1.m2ts is the input file.
Can anyone tell me if this is possible, or if there is anything wrong with the x264 command?
Thanks a lot.
-------------
PS. Just wondering, is it possible that x264 is not able to generate a correct m2ts transport stream? If that is the case, I might have to use tsMuxeR to create the transport stream? I will try that.

[von Suppé]

Not much of a command liner myself, but I know MeGUI uses "--bluray-compat" for both Blu-ray and AVCHD.
I am not sure if x264 can generate a m2ts file. Being a video-encoder only, I always thought it's output was purely .h264 elementary videostream and muxing into a container happened after encoding by another tool.
I usually let MeGUI output into mkv, and go from there.

[JeanMarc]

After a few more tests, here is what I was doing, which didn't work:
input file--> x264 cmd --> mp4 video |
>-> multiAVCHD -> AVCHD disc
input file--> ffmpeg cmd--> ac3 audio |Here is what works (same process to generate mp4 and ac3 streams:
mp4 video |
>->tsMuxeR--> AVCHD folder --> multiAVCHD -> AVCHD disc
ac3 audio |
The last step (with multiAVCHD) is used for the menu, which is very convenient for multiple titles.
So the x264 encoding was fine, I just needed tsMuxeR to generate a video that would be AVCHD compliant. It is however surprising that multiAVCHD, which uses tMuxeR to multiplex the streams is not able to create a compliant AVCHD folder from my x264 file.

[Capsbackup]

The last step (with multiAVCHD) is used for the menu, which is very convenient for multiple titles.
So the x264 encoding was fine, I just needed tsMuxeR to generate a video that would be AVCHD compliant. It is however surprising that multiAVCHD, which uses tMuxeR to multiplex the streams is not able to create a compliant AVCHD folder from my x264 file.

I use it quite often, and it always works for me! :confused:
I use either BD-RB or MeGui to create a x264 AVCHD compatible file, then tsMuxeR to create a .ts or bluray file that I will import into multiAVCHD.
Motion menus or a still picture for the menu always works too.

[throbber]

hi guys.
I did t realise there was a forum for this programme.
I find it works with great results or on a bad day its crashs a lot.but I keep comeing back because when it works the results are stunning on my 47" tv.I always convert mvk files to avchd dvd9. out of the blue for no reason I can think of its started to output oversize files. "fit all>>dvd9>>2pass and it comes out at bout 8.5gb. which is to large to burn.always used to be a shade under 8gb.any ideas why its doing it??

[JeanMarc]

I use it quite often, and it always works for me! :confused:
I use either BD-RB or MeGui to create a x264 AVCHD compatible file, then tsMuxeR to create a .ts or bluray file that I will import into multiAVCHD.
Motion menus or a still picture for the menu always works too.
Your process is similar to mine, and you do use txMuxer prior to multiAVCHD. That is the step I thought was not necessary! But I now enjoy the program. Great to pack lots of x264 videos on disks, with nice menus.

[Capsbackup]

Yes I do import my files already multiplexed and use multiAVCHD for authoring.
If the files have chapters, I import the mpls file to keep them as well.
It really is an amazing program!! :D

[Music Fan]

If the files have chapters, I import the mpls file to keep them as well.
Do you mean you import mpls as video file (which opens video and chapters at the same time) or as chapter file after having opened video ?

[Capsbackup]

Do you mean you import mpls as video file (which opens video and chapters at the same time) or as chapter file after having opened video ?

Import mpls for the video file and all audio and subs associated with that mpls.
However, chapters can be added or changed to the video file if it does not have any or the import was a ts file without chapters.

[detroit1]

I have used multiavchd for a long time and it works as far as the video but I noticed if I have LCPM 5.1 files, it always downconverts it to a very low ac3 at 128kbps

I have all the boxes unchecked unter author and audio

It is supposed to just pass thru and keep the LPCM 5.1

does anyone know how to correct this?

that is the only flaw I see with this

[Ghitulescu]

... I noticed if I have LCPM 5.1 files, it always downconverts it to a very low ac3 at 128kbps

I have all the boxes unchecked unter author and audio

It is supposed to just pass thru and keep the LPCM 5.1

does anyone know how to correct this?
I don't know for sure, but aren't you setting a target size?

[detroit1]

even if I get a target size, what does that have to do with the program downgrading the LPCM 5.1 audio?

It is supposed to just pass thru

I have also noticed that some smaller bitrate video files with pass thru right but other files that have video bit rates of over 15 will convert to the lower 128kbps

that also does not make sense as the Video size should have nothing to do with the audio conversion or pass thru

[von Suppé]

This is from a looong time ago, but IIRC this has something to do with the version of tsMuxer that MultiAVCHD uses, which can't handle or (de-)mux pcm audio properly. Also I remember there was a cli tool called "pcm2tsmux" or something that could fix a certain pcm problem before remuxing again. Not sure if it had something to do with endianness. Again, this is ages ago for me.
Maybe you want to try the latest tsMuxer manually; I understand pcm audio is no problem now.

cheers

[DoctorM]

I've been searching every set of terms I can think of with no luck finding an answer.

I've got a 31gb BD. I can burn it as 31gb, I can view the files under Windows and it is 31gb.
When I load it in reauthor mode of multiAVCHD, the initial size before I start blanking unnecessary segments and audio tracks is nearly 50gb.

After I blank what I want, it SHOULD come in small enough for a BD25, except it is now around 30gb again.
The outputted BD files include a half dozen new large .m2ts files that weren't on the original disc.

Any idea what could be causing this?

[detroit1]

if you use tsmuxer you won't have the menu and chapters that the multiavchd has

I know tsmuxer by itself will handle the lpcm

does tsmuxer create chapters for each clip?

[von Suppé]

@ detroit1

True, with tsMuxer you will not have a menu.
At the Blu-ray tab, you can manually set or copy/paste chapter times.

[detroit1]

not having a menu is not good and it would be more work to manually put in chapters for every clip if you use tsmuxer
mutliavchd has that option to automatically add chapters

what about creating the blu-ray folder and manually being able to put in the clips iwith lpcm 5.1
I thought I have heard of being able to create the folder structure and then put in the files

[Ghitulescu]

even if I get a target size, what does that have to do with the program downgrading the LPCM 5.1 audio?
Well, LPCM in 6 channels takes a lot of space, better used for video.

[jdobbs]

Well, LPCM in 6 channels takes a lot of space, better used for video.Amen.

[von Suppé]

I definately can imagine wanting to keep original audio (or compress it losslessly).

mutliavchd has that option to automatically add chapters

tsMuxer can do that to. If you take a look at the options, you can choose to insert chapterpoints every user-given minutes. If your input file has chapters, tsMuxer will recognize them and adjust the chapterlist automatically. And - as said - you can copy/paste chaptertimes into the list, should you have the timings in a textfile or something.

[DoctorM]

Not to beat a dead horse, but seriously? No one has seen a BD imported for reauthoring increase in size?

[detroit1]

what is strange is that some files with lpcm 5.1 will pass thru like normal and others it will try to use eac to converto ac3

makes no sense. I know I have all the boxes unchecked; you have to in order for it to pass thru the lpcm 5.1

[Music Fan]

what is strange is that some files with lpcm 5.1 will pass thru like normal and others it will try to use eac to converto ac3
Maybe linked to big/little endian, as von Suppé suggested.
Not sure if it had something to do with endianness.
You can see with MediaInfo if you waves are in big or little endian.

[detroit1]

I checked and they are big indian

also, I had 2 different files with big indian and 1 worked with pass thru lpcm and other did the eac convert to ac3 so I don't think that is it

[von Suppé]

also, I had 2 different files with big indian and 1 worked with pass thru lpcm and other did the eac convert to ac3 ...

I had to ask this in my first reply but I just realise now by reading over:
Maybe the "faulty" lpcm stream isn't blu-ray compatible in terms of bitrate/bitdepth/samplerate? Then MultiAVCHD will auto re-encode of course. First thing to make sure actually...

Or there's something else jiffy then with some pcm streams. Maybe a header thing... I can't tell.
I know from the past that sometimes plain remuxing handled some issues.
Maybe you can give this a try? Take the one file where lpcm passthru don't work. Load this file in the newest version of tsMuxer (if source is BD folder, select proper mpls: chapters are recognized then). Select wanted streams and mux into BD folder structure again.

Add this output into MultiAVCHD and see if passthru now works. Maybe by remuxing the newer tsMuxer has set something straight or at least did something to make the older tsMuxer to work.

[von Suppé]

The outputted BD files include a half dozen new large .m2ts files that weren't on the original disc.

Well, m2ts files can be big in (re-)authoring. If you play these new m2ts files, does the content have anything to do with the source disk?
Or try to reinstall MultiAVCHD. Saved me a couple of times.

[detroit1]

I tried to put the file into tsmuxer and then use multiavchd; same result. It is trying to convert lpcm to ac3
this seems to be random. some files pass thru the right way and others have this audio convert problem

[Music Fan]

Are you sure there are not in 44,1 khz ?

[detroit1]

Here is a sample mediainfo from 1 of the files that does pass thru on multiavchd


Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 672 MiB
Duration : 4mn 44s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 19.8 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : No
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : N=12
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 4mn 45s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 12.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 20.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.233
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00:00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
Stream size : 411 MiB (61%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Codec ID : 128
Duration : 4mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 6 912 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 235 MiB (35%)

[Music Fan]

And could you post the mediainfo analysis from one that does not ?

[detroit1]

that is the one that does Not pass thru

[Music Fan]

Ok, you forgot the Not in your previous message.
Thus, could you post the mediainfo analysis from one that does pass ?

[detroit1]

this is one that works


Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 987 MiB
Duration : 4mn 7s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 33.4 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Baseline@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : No
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 4mn 6s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 25.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 40.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 30.000 fps
Standard : NTSC
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.405
Stream size : 740 MiB (75%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Codec ID : 128
Duration : 4mn 7s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 6 912 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 204 MiB (21%)

[Music Fan]

The only difference I see is the video codec ; mpeg-2 for the one having problems, AVC for the other. This is strange, I guess you should be able to get mpeg-2 with LPCM in 5.1.

[von Suppé]

Can be that the 25 fps video is auto re-encoded by MultiAVCHD into 24 or 23.976 fps with approx. 4% slowdown keeping the same frames. Would mean audio has to be re-encoded to (stretched).

Edit: Maybe you can post MediaInfo of the converted file (which source has the 25 fps mpeg2 video)?

[Music Fan]

Can be that the 25 fps video is auto re-encoded by MultiAVCHD into 24 or 23.976 fps with approx. 4% slowdown keeping the same frames. Would mean audio has to be re-encoded to (stretched).
Interesting remark, I hadn't thought of this.
IIRC, to avoid re-encoding, the menu has to be set to Pal24 (or Pal). Otherwise, if set to Ntsc, Pal videos are re-encoded.
MultiAVCHD can also do the opposite : accelerate 24 fps to 25 if Pal speed-up is ticked in settings (I guess it has no effect if menu is set to Ntsc).

[detroit1]

but keep in mind I have had regular 29.97 fps video that also had the same audio problem of getting re encoded to ac3

[von Suppé]

but keep in mind I have had regular 29.97 fps video that also had the same audio problem of getting re encoded to ac3

And to what video specs did MultiAVCHD re-encode that source? Maybe 2 screenshots of MediaInfo: source and result?

[detroit1]

This is a file that worked. Here is the mediainfo before putting thru multiavchd


Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 641 MiB
Duration : 3mn 52s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 23.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 15.3 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 65.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.246
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
Stream size : 423 MiB (66%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Codec ID : 128
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 6 912 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 192 MiB (30%)

Text #1
ID : 4113 (0x1011)-CC1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-608
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #2
ID : 4113 (0x1011)-1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

[detroit1]

here is that file after going thru multiavchd


Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 641 MiB
Duration : 3mn 52s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 23.1 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 15.2 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 65.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.245
Time code of first frame : 00:00:00;00
Time code source : Group of pictures header
Stream size : 423 MiB (66%)

Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : PCM
Format settings, Endianness : Big
Format settings, Sign : Signed
Muxing mode : Blu-ray
Codec ID : 128
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 6 912 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 24 bits
Stream size : 192 MiB (30%)

Text #1
ID : 4113 (0x1011)-CC1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-608
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

Text #2
ID : 4113 (0x1011)-1
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : EIA-708
Muxing mode : A/53 / DTVCC Transport
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 3mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

[von Suppé]

but keep in mind I have had regular 29.97 fps video that also had the same audio problem of getting re encoded to ac3

And to what video specs did MultiAVCHD re-encode that source? Maybe 2 screenshots of MediaInfo: source and result?

Thank you detroit1, but actually I was asking MediaInfo about your file that didn't pass-thru pcm. Please both source and MultiAVCHD-result.

[DoctorM]

A heads up to anyone using the subtitle creator in multiAVCHD (and that goes for easySUP and goSUP), the default font Trebuchet MS doesn't support music notes (♪) and probably other symbols.
You may want to go with Arial Bold or Tahoma instead.

Edit: The font limitation may have been restricted to WinXP. Since upgrading my system, Trebuchet works fine for music notes. In fact it is able to italicize them when Arial can't.

[von Suppé]

Thanks for the remark DoctorM.
The increased reauthored BD issue has been dealt with?

[DoctorM]

Speaking of subtitles, I've been going crazy trying to add an SRT subtitle file to a BD. No matter what I tried I kept getting sync problems.

Completely out of ideas, I demuxed the subs from the m2ts created by multiAVCHD and compared it to the original text subs.
By the end of the movie the SUP file is 8 seconds off from the original SRT file!
How is that even possible?

Test easySUP and it works correctly. I did not test goSUP. Anyway, bug ho! Create the SUP file separately first to avoid problems.

[von Suppé]

Did the subtitles concern 24 fps video? EasySup has a 24 fps bug.

[DoctorM]

Everything I checked shows the movie as 23.976 (left EasySup's setting alone and multiAVCHD doesn't give you an fps option).

What is EasySup's bug so I know to keep an eye out for it? Why should the frame rate matter if the subtitles are by timecode?

Still, multiAVCHD's subtitle creation acted differently than EasySup's.

[von Suppé]

What is EasySup's bug so I know to keep an eye out for it?
When you set ouput to 24 fps you'll get 23.976 fps SUP file. You can check this by importing into tsMuxer.

Why should the frame rate matter if the subtitles are by timecode?
Maybe that SUP timing (or it's interpretation of software/player) does not depend solely on timecodes. Maybe framenumbers are used along the way (or at the end in authoring phase)?
If you open a subtitle file in tsMuxer standalone, the framerate is displayed. Maybe just a header, I don't know. Anyways, in tsMuxer, when you select the subtitle, in "General track options" you have the option to "Bind to video FPS". This comes in handy when the subs have different fps than videostream, but the timings are correct.

But better way to deal with the 24 fps bug is to correct fps with BDSup2Sub, or create SUP from text with eg. SubtitleEdit.

I do a lot of text-editing of subs and thus always create them before importing into authoring software.

cheers

[DoctorM]

I usually edit in SubtitleWorkshop, but I've never seen a way to output SUP format from that (not that it may not). I'll check out SubtitleEdit.

Btw, tested goSUP and found it to be better than EasySUP. The latter was more aggressive with the safe zone than it should have been and the look seemed worse.
Most importantly, EasySUP doesn't seem to have the frame rate problem either.

Since multiAVCHD doesn't give you a place to set the framerate, it probably just read the framerate from the movie wrong.
I find it difficult to believe it is always wrong even though though it had problems the first time I used it.
Pre-rendering the subs with a manual fps is the answer. I just don't know that it is ALWAYS necessary.

[von Suppé]

... it probably just read the framerate from the movie wrong...
Pre-rendering the subs with a manual fps is the answer.

Yes, even apart from the 24 framerate bug, I encountered several issuess with MultiAVCHD in some cases. It's generally a great tool, but sometimes does things it's own way, my guess. And pre-rendering is indeed the way to go. My experience is, that if correctly pre-encoded/-muxed files are fed into MultiAVCHD, it does a great job always.

cheers