multiAVCHD - author Blu-ray/AVCHD (Blu-ray players, camcoders, Viera TV) + (HD) DVD

[herrde]

The strange thing is that if tsmuxer's "AVCHD disc" mode is used, the output is still not USB-compliant, at least not with the PS3 as long file names (non-8.3) are used... even though they say in the release notes "use this mode when using a USB device".

You still have to run it through a tool like AVCHDme or similar in order to make it playable on a PS3. Therefore, I wonder what the difference between tsmuxer's "Blu-ray disc" and "AVCHD disc" mode actually is...

Can anybody shed some light on this?

Best,

Gero

[deank]

Did you read few posts back?

And yes tsmuxer produces - "AVCHD disc" - not USB/SD output. It's up to the user to decide what to do with the files - burn to dvd/bd or rename to 8.3 and transfer to solid-state media.

[turbojet]

I do think --avchd should be coded to be used only for usb devices but it's changed into the new --blu-ray if that makes any sense.

I'm not exactly sure when they changed --blu-ray between 1.8.35 and 1.9.4 but in the past few days there hasn't been any reports of it working on SAP's there has been some failures though. As far as I know it went through this change to solve vc-1 playback on panasonic players, which isn't a common situation and could be solved by other means actually the header change on the newly fixed mpls/clpi might just do it.

AVCHD disk might be technically more accurate, but in it's current state it hasnt shown to fix anything but breaks a lot of tools that choose to upgrade and changes everyone's mindset from bluray to avchd without really telling anyone about it. AVCHD in consumer electronics almost always refers to data on a hard drive/usb drive and about the only thing that's on disk is blu-ray.

[herrde]

In the release notes, it says:

The mode "Create AVCHD disk" is recommended for DVD disks. Use mode "Create Blu-ray disk" if you want to write files to blue-ray disk.

This doesn't make any sense to me. If I use the "Create Blu-ray disc" mode which is (according to these release notes) to be used for BD-R burning only, I can still take the output and burn it to a DVD-R with UDF 2.50 and it's recognized and playable on at least the PS3, isn't it? So what's the "Create AVCHD disk" mode in tsmuxer good for?

Best,

G.

[turbojet]

Create blu-ray disc will not work on a ps3, it changes headers to 200 and doesn't have idex, this currently is only useful in the vc-1 with panasonic situation.

Create avchd is what create blu-ray disc used to be and should work for both dvd and bd.

So basically what you've been using for however long you've been using the program doesn't do what it used to.

One of those options needs to go or change drastically in my opinion.

I know I'm sticking with 1.8.30 - 1.8.34 for real stuff and newer versions are like pre-alpha to me at the moment which is only for testing.

[deank]

Create blu-ray disc will not work on a ps3, it changes headers to 200 and doesn't have idex, this currently is only useful in the vc-1 with panasonic situation.

I think --blu-ray output will work with PS3 or other SAPs but only if burned to BD-R/RE, not with DVD media and I think it's what it is supposed to do. --avchd will work if burned to DVD media or 8.3 transferred to usb/sd. I hope that clears the misunderstanding.

[turbojet]

That very well could be, but if --avchd just replaced --blu-ray then --avchd has been tested for months on bdr with no failures.

So outside of vc-1 on panasonic, which I believe should be fixed but in a different way, there is no logical reason for both outputs.

[herrde]

I think --blu-ray output will work with PS3 or other SAPs but only if burned to BD-R/RE, not with DVD media and I think it's what it is supposed to do. --avchd will work if burned to DVD media or 8.3 transferred to usb/sd. I hope that clears the misunderstanding.

OK, now you guys made me curious. I will run some tests now with DVD-R and BD-R media and find out if deank is right. I will report back in a couple of minutes.

I've already found out one thing which under these circumstances is obvious, but I still want to mention it: if you use tsmuxer's new "Create Blu-ray disc" mode and then run the output through the AVCHDme 1.4 tool, it still doesn't work on a PS3. Just for your info.

Best,

G.

[coolalibaba]

oh is this thread turning to another tsmuxer thread?

[deank]

if you use tsmuxer's new "Create Blu-ray disc" mode and then run the output through the AVCHDme 1.4 tool, it still doesn't work on a PS3. Just for your info.

It will never work in PS3 with DVD/USB if IDEX is missing (i.e. --blu-ray output). It however should work if burned to BD. I can't test it with BD, but if you can - let us know.

[turbojet]

idex could very well be the reason full backups in BD-RB aren't working on dvd, sorry to post it here but I do think the answer, if there is one, lies within multiavchd workings. But I wonder how the idex could be produced.

[herrde]

It will never work in PS3 with DVD/USB if IDEX is missing (i.e. --blu-ray output). It however should work if burned to BD. I can't test it with BD, but if you can - let us know.

OK, test finished. Here we go:

- tsmuxer's new "Blu-ray disc" mode works flawlessly with BD-R(E) media on the PS3 (and obviously on software players, just tested with Cyberlink PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra)

- it doesn't work with DVD-R media. The disc is recognized by the PS3, but just as a Data Disc. You can only navigate to the STREAM folder and play the M2TS files "manually".

- it doesn't work either with USB media, not even if output is processed with AVCDHme or similar tools (just as I remarked further above).

So all in all, deank was right (as always :) ). The new tsmuxer "Create Blu-ray disc" mode only works with BD-R(E) media.

Which takes me to the final question: Do I have any advantage when choosing the "Blu-ray disc" mode with BD-R(E) media? Is this mode maybe more compatible to other SAPs (like turbojet says about the Panasonic)?

Best,

Gero

[deank]

Do I have any advantage when choosing the "Blu-ray disc" mode with BD-R(E) media? Is this mode maybe more compatible to other SAPs (like turbojet says about the Panasonic)?

Yes, I think it was one of the reasons to separate the options in tsMuxeR - if you're going with BD discs - it should be better to use the --blu-ray switch/mode.

As we all know, the bigger problem is with DVD media. Then it comes to the sap manufacturers to decide how to handle DVD media with HD content.

Some players (like Sony 3xx series) doesn't really care what the media is, but what the content is, so they play full BD backups (with index.bdmv without the idex part) and will also play the avchd-like discs with idex, too.

Other players (like Panasonic) will not accept true BD content on DVD media unless it has this idex and then IF they play the content, certain limitations are applied (no BDJ support, reduced navigation-commands support in movieobject, etc).

It is impossible to change the way your BD player will handle DVD discs with BD content - it is up to the firmware programmers.

I think, for now, the only thing that works 100% is BD content on BD-R/RE disc (with or without the idex) - anything else is dependent on player/model/firmware.

***

Here is another thought:

I was thinking few weeks ago about checking some PSR registers in these different modes. It is known that PSR31 holds the information for BD player profile and version, so I was thinking if the value changes in different modes / with different media.

I may try to create a sample structure to burn on DVD and another to burn on BD-RE. It will display graphical information based on what your BD player reports for various PSR registers, and especially PSR31.

Dean

[herrde]

Very good idea! If you need my help with testing, just let me know!

Best,

Gero

[turbojet]

This is what I've come across from various sources.

BD-RETAIL-BDJ: 80 00 00 00
BD-RETAIL BDJ: A0 00 00 00
BD-RETAIL-HDMV: 40 00 00 00
BD-RETAIL HDMV: 40 00 00 00
BD-RETAIL NO MENU: 40 00 00 00
HQV-AVCHD-MENU: 40 00 00 00
multiavchd with menu: 40 00 00 00
TSMuxer: 10 00 01 00

maybe this help

[deank]

Also... about the IDEX segment in index.bdmv...

It seems that there are two "secret" values, called ID1 and ID2, which define what exactly will be the content (ID1) and subcontent (ID2) of the IDEX block. At this time the only known (to me) pair of ID1 and ID2 is 0x10 0x00 0x01 0x00 (ID1= 0x1000 and ID2=0x0100). These values refer to information stored in SAPs chips/firmware-code and are defined by the licensor (ID1 or ID1&ID2) and the hardware manufacturer (ID2). Usually you'll find these values at offset 0x84 - 0x87 in index.bdmv. :) On top of it - index.bdmv can contain multiple IDEX blocks, all with (mandatory) different pairs ID1+ID2.

A disc being AVCHD is indicated by ID1 set to 0x1000 - this is very important and is the FIRST thing a player will check and act accordingly.

AVCHD index.bdmv is much much more complicated than a regular BD index.bdmv and can contain tons of information about titles like playlists, recording information, write protection, etc...

I posted before, but will do it again: AVCHD clpi and mpls files contain similar extended information (CLEX/PLEX) which also affects playback.

All these things are related to making a working SDHC playback for Panasonic TVs/BD players and even directly in your camera :)

A small reminder about AVCHD - it is media independent (unlike BDMV) and players are bound to support it on all storage media - SD cards, Memory Stick, USB flash and HDD drives, DVD and BD discs. Of course - once in AVCHD mode, a player may pose limitations set by the AVCHD standard, such as video codec, frame-rate, secondary video/audio and PIP, Java, etc.

All this should have gone into the new thread I was thinking of ("who is who") but anyway...

[deank]

This is what I've come across from various sources.

The example I gave was with one title only. You'll find these values in multiAVCHD's index @ offset 0x258.

Otherwise their location is set by the 4 byte value @ offset 0x0C plus 0x0C (if 0x0C thru 0x0F are non-zero) - as in multiAVCHD 0x0c-0x0f shows 00 00 02 4C so you get 0x24C + 0xC = 0x258.

I doubt that any of the retail discs you checked use IDEX. They should have 00 00 00 00 at offset 0x0C.

If you remember - that was the idea of goBD - to add the IDEX to a standard BDMV index.bdmv, by changing these four zeroes to a new IDEX offset, adding the IDEX and converting it to AVCHD index.bdmv, thus lifting the media restriction of BDMV and forcing the player to accept BD content from DVD (as it seems to work with PS3).

*** edit: Few tests with different values for ID1 proved that PS3 will not detect AVCHD if ID1 is anything but 0x1000.

*** edit: More information is available in patents. Click here: (http://www.google.bg/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=Extension+Data+AVCHD+ID1+ID2+patent+-handycam+-hotmail&btnG=%D2%FA%F0%F1%E5%ED%E5&meta=) or link#1 (https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1870895&ki=A1) | link#2 (https://publications.european-patent-office.org/PublicationServer/getpdf.jsp?cc=EP&pn=1870900&ki=A1) | link#3 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1870895.html) | link#4 (http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1873783.html)

[turbojet]

Oh I see, you are correct no retails I have here have anything but 00 00 00 00 at 0x0C thru 0x0F

[Edujr]

Deank:

I tried first, using only the complete setup from this topic first page. Didn't work. Then, i downloaded Ts Muxer 1.9.1b, and applied the new files in tools folder, over. Didn't work too.

PROBLEM SOLVED

[deank]

I doubt you're using the correct tsmuxer or FULL download - it was updated today. You'll need tsmuxer 1.9.3 or 1.9.4. Download it from this link. (http://multiavchd.deanbg.com/tsmuxer/tsMuxeR_1_9_4.exe)

Also you can try directly with tsmuxerGUI.

[rendez2k]

I've suddenly started getting this issue today:

[09:49:27] Log started for multiAVCHD v2.5 (build 514)
[09:49:27] Processing 4 input files/folders.
[09:49:27] Existing E:\Temp\AVCHD\ renamed to E:\Temp\AVCHD-20090411-094927
[09:49:27] Temp folder does not exist. Set to E:\_TEMP.
[09:49:27] Converting mkv/mp4 file to AVCHD (E:\Media Share\24.s07e17.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv).
[09:49:27] Detected audio: ID#1:A_AC3:audio (48000Hz/6ch) Language: und
[09:49:27] Detected video: ID#2:V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC:1280x720 23.976fps (AR:1.78)
[09:49:28] Creating BluRay folders (tsMuxer)...
[09:49:28] Done!
[09:49:28] tsMuxer didn't like (E:\Media Share\24.s07e17.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv). Skipping it...
[09:49:28] Converting mkv/mp4 file to AVCHD (E:\Media Share\heroes.s03e22.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv).
[09:49:28] Detected audio: ID#1:A_AC3:audio (48000Hz/6ch) Language: und
[09:49:28] Detected video: ID#2:V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC:1280x720 23.976fps (AR:1.78)
[09:49:28] Creating BluRay folders (tsMuxer)...
[09:49:28] Done!
[09:49:28] tsMuxer didn't like (E:\Media Share\heroes.s03e22.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv). Skipping it...

I've tried it with multiple different MKVs and all of them have the same errors! I've done a full download of 2.5 (514) and still the same error. Any ideas?! Maybe something like a codec has changed on my system?! The files appear to play fine.

[deank]

Please check what is the version of tsmuxer in multiavchd\tools.
Also try with [x] show spawned tools.

[herrde]

@rendez2k:

You might have run into the same problem that I had recently. Check if you have a localized version of mkvtoolnix installed! If yes, then all the mkvtoolnix programs (e.g. mkvinfo.exe) in your multiAVCHD folder are using the localized language output too - and multiAVCHD can't process other language outputs than english.

If this is the case, just delete the subfolders in the "locale" directory within your mkvtoolnix folder - this urges all mkvtoolnix programs to switch back to english.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Gero

[deank]

I doubt it is his case, because it seems his mkvinfo is working (no warnings in the log and AUDIO/VIDEO streams are detected properly). It is something else, but I guess he solved it already.

[ramonchin]

Hi!

I've got this error
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6268/multiavchd.jpg

Do you know what's causing it?

Thanks.

[deank]

Scroll up :) the log and you'll see the warning/error in red.

[ramonchin]

Scroll up :) the log and you'll see the warning/error in red.

Ups!!

I've closed the app. Is the log file saved in any folder?

Will DVD work?... I'm burning it.

[deank]

If you have [x] Create log file - you should have a _LOG folder with it. Yes, it will work, but you should really take a look at the log when you have warnings/errors.

[ramonchin]

Ok. It plays fine on PS3.

Thanks.

[desray]

Finally waited for 5 days in order to make my first post.

Thanks to deank and his effort in making this utility. For the past 5 days I have been working on a project to cut my first AVCHD Demo Disc and its finishing soon. But recently I got some issue with 1080i 25fps (PAL) material to play w/o stutter on my LG BD370 Blu-ray player...other clips played fine...but only this particular clip. I wonder what could be the problem and how to resolve it.

[desray]

Another question, will there be any problem with the use of different versions of the TSMuxer? I understand that TSMuxer is the backbone behind all the muxing work.

[deank]

What type of TV system you're using?

It is better to use tsmuxer provided with multiAVCHD - version 1.9.3/4.

[desray]

I'm using a Projector and its able to accept both PAL and NTSC signal...

The stutter occurs for some clips with DTS Core and most of the clips with DTS-HD MA track...BUT it plays fine when I use on on TViX Media Player (M-6500). Initially I thought its the resolution too big and DTS-HD MA track requires higher bandwidth - but this doesn't seem to hold ground as a few clips at 1920 x 1080 with DTS core played fine...this is making me very confused with the dependability of this utility or maybe TSMuxer could be the culprit?

[ramonchin]

Is there any option to encode DTS to AC3 in multiAVCHD ? I think DTS sound is uncompatible with AVCHD standard , isn't it?

[davsim]

Just my 2c but... SD compliant AVCHD is the REAL AVCHD and I'm almost there. And it can support menus - I got samples with menues and created SD samples w/o menues with Panasonic's HDwriter. Menus won't show on your TV (don't know for the BDP) - but they can be in the structure. As I earlier posted - this true AVCHD is really complex structure but will work in the end.
As a new BD35 user, I am really looking forward to SD card support. I've tested a few files myself and anything that isn't camcorder source isn't even detected by the player.

The only files I have been able to play from the SD card with /PRIVATE/AVCHD/BDMV structure are from the sample clips here:

http://www.elurauser.com/articles/avchd_to_bluray.jsp

I look forward to following your progress. If you need SD card support testing on a BD35, please post short sample clips.

[desray]

Is there any option to encode DTS to AC3 in multiAVCHD ? I think DTS sound is uncompatible with AVCHD standard , isn't it?

Yes there is such an option but most of the clips in my demo disc is in DTS Core and exhibit no problem except a few. I am suspecting the 16bit vs 24bit of the DTS core track.

[desray]

Wishlist for multiAVCHD

- Allow certain titles to autoplay like trailers and then come to a halt pending for user execution will be nice.

[shv]

Hello,
I would like to process m2ts files with Multiavchd. Well this is possible but the original chapters are not available afterwards. Would it be possible to add one mpls file instead of m2ts as this could be done in TsMuxeR?

Use cases:
- keep original chapters for m2ts files
- add only the main movie of BD structure which consists of some m2ts files to Multiavchd
- add a movie which is splitted into different m2ts files to Multiavchd
- Fat32 as target drive is possible because TsMuxeR is used to remux and split files

Regards.
shv

[deank]

Wishlist for multiAVCHD

- Allow certain titles to autoplay like trailers and then come to a halt pending for user execution will be nice.

You can add titles, use [x] Create menu, [x] Skip top menu, [-] Quit on last title...

Then the player will auto start from title#1.. play all titles and at the end will show the menu. Or you're asking for something else?

Hello,
I would like to process m2ts files with Multiavchd. Well this is possible but the original chapters are not available afterwards. Would it be possible to add one mpls file instead of m2ts as this could be done in TsMuxeR?

You can import existing BDMV structures and chapters will be kept. I'll see about mpls-only import.

[deank]

Is there any option to encode DTS to AC3 in multiAVCHD ? I think DTS sound is uncompatible with AVCHD standard , isn't it?

You're right - it is not supported in AVCHD, but PS3 handles it. I may add an option for STRICTER audio/video formats and option to convert DTS audio to AC3 (as it is done in mkv2avi).

[desray]

You're right - it is not supported in AVCHD, but PS3 handles it. I may add an option for STRICTER audio/video formats and option to convert DTS audio to AC3 (as it is done in mkv2avi).

Yes, from what I gathered AVCHD doesn't really support DTS but my BD370 Bluray player can playback DTS with no problem :) maybe the engineers from LG used the same technique to allow playback of DTS Core...BUT its still quite tricky as 3 out of 10 of my clips encoded in DTS Core and one in DTS-HD MA track didn't work well...and cause the picture to stutter.

Sighz...I guess this is a limitation for using AVCHD.

[desray]

You can add titles, use [x] Create menu, [x] Skip top menu, [-] Quit on last title...

Then the player will auto start from title#1.. play all titles and at the end will show the menu. Or you're asking for something else?


LoL...I think you're not getting what I'm driving at here...I'm referring to the playback of certain titles (perhaps the first few titles in the list) for autoplay once the disc is loaded. Yes I agreed that Skip Top Menu allows us to play the clip directly but it plays the whole playlist unless I hit the Menu button on the remote...

What I'm looking for is what I will called a preview screening of trailers (something along this line) - which have been implemented by many of the DVD Authoring tools in the past.

Hope its clearer now? Any way this is not a priority - just some value added feature which you can consider implementing it along the way. :)

Cheers!~

[desray]

You're right - it is not supported in AVCHD, but PS3 handles it. I may add an option for STRICTER audio/video formats and option to convert DTS audio to AC3 (as it is done in mkv2avi).

No wonder...sometimes when I checked the Use eac3to option when needed to enable DTS HD MA or Dolby TrueHD tracks to be encoded into 640kbps (AC3 Core) - no track was generated.

Hope future release can make it work like a charm ;D

[deank]

I did a lot of tests and HD audio is converted to AC3. If you have sample to send - I'll test it.

[desray]

Some concept arts for impending release :)

http://desray.dyndns.org/Joomla/images/stories/AVCHD/concept_art_menu.jpg

http://desray.dyndns.org/Joomla/images/stories/AVCHD/concept_art_menu2.jpg

[deank]

It looks nice. I don't know what is the purpose of these presentation discs and I hope you've read what is in the 'about' box.

[desray]

Dun worry - its for my personal consumption and test my Home Theater equipment and calibrating purpose. Its not for sale - so do I need to write you a formal email to request for permission based on the About portion.

[deank]

Too bad I'm no designer :) and I'm stuck with some stupid looking backgrounds :) and it is a pleasure to see how people use multiAVCHD. Also you may drop a note somewhere in your blog that you're using multiAVCHD for your production.

[desray]

Too bad I'm no designer :) and I'm stuck with some stupid looking backgrounds :) and it is a pleasure to see how people use multiAVCHD. Also you may drop a note somewhere in your blog that you're using multiAVCHD for your production.


Sure thing...no problem. In fact I will pass on the message of how great this little program does :) Cheers!~ Keep up the good work back home. :)

[desray]

Is there any banner, emblem or icon that you can provide me to put on my blog?