Media Player Classic - BE Win32/x64

[Drakko01]

It is hard to understand how someone with the extensive knowledge you have (and that knowledge is known, after reading and learning from hundreds of your posts over the years)
And even so you can't see or understand the point. Perhaps my explanation isn't clear, or maybe it's willful blindness.

The comparison with SM was in response to this...

As Huhn explained, I also think high refresh rate with Smoothmotion (madVR like) is surely the best way to not perceive potential judder.

The comparison between SVP and madVR's Smooth Motion is correct because both are software tools that attempt to address a specific video playback problem: motion judder and lack of smoothness.
The fact that they use different techniques is not a reason to dismiss the comparison, but rather the very basis for it.

Fans of interpolation should try out HopperRender (https://github.com/HopperLogger/HopperRender).

I guess you didn't read that I use SVP+Rife, otherwise I can't understand why you recommend this, the result is terrible in comparison.

There is nothing you can tell me that refutes the result I get by combining svp+rife+vrr mode.

Just wanted to share this: Some of the people in this very forum are the reason we're using this software(MPCBE,MPCVR), and the improvements over the years.Perhaps in another alternative reality this go different.

[huhn]

It is hard to understand how someone with the extensive knowledge you have (and that knowledge is known, after reading and learning from hundreds of your posts over the years)
And even so you can't see or understand the point. Perhaps my explanation isn't clear, or maybe it's willful blindness.

The comparison with SM was in response to this...



The comparison between SVP and madVR's Smooth Motion is correct because both are software tools that attempt to address a specific video playback problem: motion judder and lack of smoothness.
The fact that they use different techniques is not a reason to dismiss the comparison, but rather the very basis for it.

it never tried to do that and it doesn't do that.
i a perfect world madVR SM would look 100 % the same as frame rate matching. it can not beat frame rate matching in terms of smoothness it will also not remove the judder compared to frame rate matching.

frame rate interpolation like SVP can remove judder but it is not made to do that.
it'S job is it to create more frames nothing more in your case you are creating a frame rate missmatch on purpose doing x4 instead of x5 knowingly trying to fix that issue using VRR. if VRR could create perfect 96 HZ everything would be great.

and here is the reason this comparison has to stop. you can also just throw SM against it yes at 96 at 120 HZ because it is made for that.
i'm not recommending it because you do not have a display with about 200 hz but it will still work and remove the judder and nothing else it will not be smoother than 96 at 96.

because VRR and SM try to archive 100% the same thing.
there are very little things SM can but VRR couldn't in theory.

[pirlouy]

Just to be sure Drakko, this SVP+Rife outputs variable fps ?
And with maximum refresh-rate + madVR SM, result is not OK for you ? You really think VRR display would make this better ?

Good luck in your fight against 24 fps inherent judder. I've tried interpolation from TV, it's OK, but in the end, you're changing some parts and Tom Cruise (https://x.com/TomCruise/status/1070071781757616128) told me it was bad so I obeyed and disabled it ! Going to interpolation as no interpolation is as difficult as the opposite, but in the end, you avoid trouble accepting 24 fps limitation.

[strumf666]

it never tried to do that and it doesn't do that.
in a perfect world...
...movies would be recorded with higher and integer fps ;)

[Amuat]

VRR seems to be the topic of choice at the moment, but to annoy everybody, I'm gonna harp about ACM some more.

Am I to interpret the silence on it from everyone but huhn that pretty much everybody here is of the same opinion (that is, no good for something like the 806 that I use)? Maybe even that it's so obvious it's not even worth discussing? I've gone back to outputting 12-bit with 16-bit FP (for that post-process dithering), except that now I've turned ACM off in Windows settings and using legacy ICC on MPC exe, but really I'm just stumbling in the dark here at this point, so any informed input would be very welcome.

[Drakko01]

Huhn, everything you said in your last post is technically correct. And I have to say I appreciate this kind of response much more. Even though the end results for me are the opposite.

Just to be sure Drakko, this SVP+Rife outputs variable fps ?

-Not variable, but the frame delivery is fluctuating due to the real-time processing demands of RIFE,VRR mode of the tv will simply reflect that fluctuation by changing its refresh rate the best it can

And with maximum refresh-rate + madVR SM, result is not OK for you ?

No, its not.

I've tried interpolation from TV, it's OK, but in the end, you're changing some parts.

Interpolation on a TV is done by simpler means and the result is much more questionable. The changing part don't butters me. except when it highlights flaws in actors or changes in stunt doubles or even the distance of a punch

Tom Cruise endorse his director and that idea gain popularity because who he is.This led to more people engaging directly with the issue and becoming advocates themselves. No me thought I move beyond the mission. im free.

Filmmakers use 24fps for a combination of historical legacy, aesthetic effect, and practical production considerations. Audiences have been conditioned by a century of cinema.Hides cheap effects,Masks limitations in production design,Smoothes out makeup and costumes. Psychological distance meaning helps the brain overlook minor inconsistencies or flaws.
VRR seems to be the topic of choice at the moment, but to annoy everybody, I'm gonna harp about ACM some more.

Dont worry about it , its not the topic of choice , its only to contradict my claims, I won't post for a while and this topic will be forget.

[clsid]

-Not variable, but the frame delivery is fluctuating due to the real-time processing demands of RIFE,VRR mode of the tv will simply reflect that fluctuation by changing its refresh rate the best it canBINGO BINGO BINGO
So I was right all along. Root cause is too heavy settings.
You can't just delay frames if processing takes too long. Or show them early. Each frame must be displayed at an exact predetermined moment. That is essential for correct and smooth playback.

Furthermore, VSync is essential for accurate and predictable timing. Without it there will be inaccuracies of up to a few milliseconds, which are more noticeable the higher the refreshrate gets.

[clsid]

Am I to interpret the silence on it from everyone but huhn that pretty much everybody here is of the same opinion (that is, no good for something like the 806 that I use)? Maybe even that it's so obvious it's not even worth discussing? I've gone back to outputting 12-bit with 16-bit FP (for that post-process dithering), except that now I've turned ACM off in Windows settings and using legacy ICC on MPC exe, but really I'm just stumbling in the dark here at this point, so any informed input would be very welcome.Yes, ACM should be off if you care about accurate colors.
For texture setting please stick to default auto8/10. FP16 only increases risk of problems, and I doubt you are capable or seeing any beneficial difference.

[Drakko01]

BINGO BINGO BINGO
So I was right all along. Root cause is too heavy settings.
You can't just delay frames if processing takes too long. Or show them early. Each frame must be displayed at an exact predetermined moment. That is essential for correct and smooth playback.

Furthermore, VSync is essential for accurate and predictable timing. Without it there will be inaccuracies of up to a few milliseconds, which are more noticeable the higher the refreshrate gets.

Don't call bingo if you don't have all the numbers, regardless what settings you use, this fluctuation are inherentes of that combination ,below the target also ahead the target, and can be reproduce at 2x,2.5x,3x.4x
but then the tv will react different.
Is not caused by settings that are too heavy.

What you say would apply if I told you : "the playbackI is choppy, full of stutters and judder." ahhh ok try to lowering the settings. Many years of madvr taught me that already.

[v0lt]

MPC Script Source 0.2.13.225 (https://github.com/v0lt/ScriptSourceFilter/releases/tag/0.2.13)
Fixed display of AviSynth+ error text in various encodings.
Fixed filter registration and deregistration using included CMD files.

PS: MPC Script Source 0.2.13 is included in the 1.8.7.94 installer.

[v0lt]

MPC Video Renderer 0.9.17.2472 (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/VideoRenderer/releases/tag/0.9.17)
Fixed a crash in DX9 mode in some situations.

PS: MPC Video Renderer 0.9.17 are included in the MPC-BE 1.8.7.96 installer.

[varekai]

Thanks for the update, I've completely given up on madVR, so much easier/better with MPC-VR!
Now if I could take a screenshot while playing (pausing PP) AVC video material I would be a 100% happy camper...

[Aleksoid1978]

Thanks for the update, I've completely given up on madVR, so much easier/better with MPC-VR!
Now if I could take a screenshot while playing (pausing PP) AVC video material I would be a 100% happy camper...

Well, everyone can, but you can't, that's something to think about...

[varekai]

Well, everyone can, but you can't, that's something to think about...
PotPlayer playing AVC
https://i.imgur.com/coi3vUY.png
PotPlayer pausing AVC
https://i.imgur.com/14ss1bq.png
Just sayin'...

[huhn]

we had this before.
potplayer does not support the API so it is not working what are they supposed to do?

[Aleksoid1978]

This is a PotPlayer problem.

[v0lt]

@varekai, Aleksoid1978
Please replace large images in your messages with links.

About screenshots.
history.txt (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/VideoRenderer/blob/master/history.txt)
0.9.1.2353 - 2025-01-17
------------------------
Functions for getting the current and displayed video frame now use top-down RGB bitmaps.
Ask the author of PotPlayer to support top-down RGB bitmaps.

Bottom-up bitmaps are inconvenient and long outdated. We don't want to use them anymore.

Or use version 0.8.9.2318 in PotPlayer.

[varekai]

@varekai, Aleksoid1978
Please replace large images in your messages with links.
About screenshots.
history.txt (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/VideoRenderer/blob/master/history.txt)
Ask the author of PotPlayer to support top-down RGB bitmaps.
Bottom-up bitmaps are inconvenient and long outdated. We don't want to use them anymore.
Or use version 0.8.9.2318 in PotPlayer.
Thanks for info, done!
I will contact PotPlayer.
Will test your version suggestion.

Best regards,
varekai

[v0lt]

Release MPC-BE 1.8.8 (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/MPC-BE/releases/tag/1.8.8)

Important changes:

Fixed display of Shoutcast and Icecast radio station names.
Added support for Advanced Professional Video (APV) in splitters.
Updated AC-4 decoder.
The D3D11 hardware decoder for HEVC 4:4:4 10/16 bit will not be used for madVR because the renderer does not support it.
Updated MPC Video Renderer 0.9.17.
Updated MPC Script Source 0.2.13.

MPC-BE Nightly builds (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/MPC-BE/wiki/Nightly-builds)
Night builds are provided by volunteers.

Donate (https://mpc-be.org/forum/index.php?topic=240.0).

[arrgh]

after some time I have installed version 1.8.8. Some things have changed...
I have mkv-files with AAC 5.1 audio. My AV-Receiver does not understand this. How would I have to setup MPC-BE to convert AAC 5.1 to AC3 5.1, so I can bit-stream it to the receiver via HDMI? AT the moment I only get Stereo...
Thanks

[Aleksoid1978]

after some time I have installed version 1.8.8. Some things have changed...
I have mkv-files with AAC 5.1 audio. My AV-Receiver does not understand this. How would I have to setup MPC-BE to convert AAC 5.1 to AC3 5.1, so I can bit-stream it to the receiver via HDMI? AT the moment I only get Stereo...
Thanks

This is configured in the properties of the built-in audio decoder.
https://ibb.co/4n9dpHv2

[arrgh]

...I don't understand Russian, but I recognize the menue-item. That is what I have done but it only gives me Stereo.
I should maybe mention that I use LAV-Splitter and Videodecoder (but not the Audio decoder). MPC as the Audio Renderer.

[Aleksoid1978]

...I don't understand Russian, but I recognize the menue-item. That is what I have done but it only gives me Stereo.
I should maybe mention that I use LAV-Splitter and Videodecoder (but not the Audio decoder). MPC as the Audio Renderer.

Must be multichannel.

[Klaus1189]

Hi :)
I think it would be a good idea to increase the size of the list of the refresh rates. Since now 100 fps and 119.880 fps and 120 fps videos are more and more common. I can add it myself, but I think it should be there for all users.
I add 3 to the existing ones 100 Hz, 119 Hz and 120 Hz. I checked the size and made a test if the 11 display modes can be viewed without need for scrolling and it works.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gKDZT6geVS8ShJ3R9Afnxg4v2CgrQyMT/view?usp=sharing

[v0lt]

Since now 100 fps and 119.880 fps and 120 fps videos are more and more common.
Where is it common?
I've found several films that have increased their frame rate using algorithms. But it hasn't become popular, as there are SVP and other ways to do it at runtime.

[Klaus1189]

Not for films but for higher end cameras. For me it would be great.

Also only an increased size of display modes in options would help me. The addition of other display formats is not really necessary, I can do that. But at least to get all 11 to see without the need for scrolling :)
Please, I really beg for the increased size of display mode list :)

[arrgh]

Must be multichannel.

...problem resolved itself... "somebody" pushed at some point of time the "Music" button on the Receivers remote control...
sorry for the fuzz

[huhn]

on pretty much all samsung TVs 23p is bugged and forces subsampling.

mpcVR has issues with 23hz at 119p for example i really need to make that bug report but it is very time consuming to do.

everything up to 240 should be support 240 is still rare and every over that is very rare but even PJ have 240 these days,

[v0lt]

Not for films but for higher end cameras.
Yes, I read that modern professional cameras have a high frame rate recording mode, but no one makes recordings of more than 60 fps publicly available.

[Klaus1189]

I have more and more of them. Also users with actioncams have high refresh rate files like 100/119.880/120 fps. Can you please increase the size of display modes for 11 different without the need for scrolling for me? It should work for 11, because I tried the size in the screeshot in my ealier post. It would help me :)

[v0lt]

I have more and more of them. Also users with actioncams have high refresh rate files like 100/119.880/120 fps.
I don't have any videos like that for testing. This is the first time I've heard of cameras recording at 100 fps.

[Klaus1189]

Here is a short sample:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f4GXzRbrwK8Xn8tGlWZRwo5NsG-PSCeH/view?usp=drive_link

[huhn]

even without content at 100 or 120 HZ you are objectively better of with 120/100 support.

the commen refreshrates are 23p, 24p, 25p, 29p 30p, 50p 59p and 60p.

with 120 support you only need 119, 120 and 100 to do all making reseync much less necessary.

[v0lt]

Here is a short sample:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1f4GXzRbrwK8Xn8tGlWZRwo5NsG-PSCeH/view?usp=drive_link
Thanks. Now I just need to find a camera that shoots at 100 fps.

[Klaus1189]

100fps at 1080p:
https://vimeo.com/281339589

I downloaded original file if you need it.

[v0lt]

I downloaded original file if you need it.
Not necessarily. I found another 100 fps video.
Check if the display auto-switching is working.

[huhn]

mkvtoolnix was not an option?

[Klaus1189]

He was looking for real videos, not artificial videos.

[Klaus1189]

Is is possible to increase it a little bit more. Window size schould be sufficient.

[huhn]

He was looking for real videos, not artificial videos.

i can do that too.
true 360 or true 500 (more is going to be hard)?

[Klaus1189]

What cam do you have?

[huhn]

none it is called obs.

[Klaus1189]

Check if the display auto-switching is working.

Yes, it works, finally I could test it today. I think it needs to be a tiny bit bigger, so number 11 is not cut off. I think it is possible. I am begging ;)

[Klaus1189]

I thought about it and I think this would also look nice:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1rs7Iv7Tggz5r9ZC284A33C38suFjVOwx/view?usp=drive_link

For this suggestion the drop downlist for monitor is still more than enough for monitor names and we have space for Default and 12 other display modes. Even one more as a spare place for future :)
I also tested to have higher than 125.999 Hz but it always reverts to 125.999. Now not an real issue, but perhaps this lock can be opened so in future higher refresh rates are possible in display modes.

[v0lt]

I also tested to have higher than 125.999 Hz but it always reverts to 125.999. Now not an real issue, but perhaps this lock can be opened so in future higher refresh rates are possible in display modes.
Thank you. The maximum value has been increased to 999.

[Klaus1189]

Thank you

[beter]

Update of translation for Chinese Traditional and Dutch:
https://mega.nz/file/3eQk2aoZ#Z7pqFs-kPQ1xBni1E_ppy_gKLMfZjVkhqtrrtFZSNNs

[pirlouy]

Hello, I guess there are not a lof of users (including devs) with Radeon GPU, so I'll have to deal with strange behaviors. I'm with a Radeon 9060 XT. With below videos, when I try to seek, the video does not play anymore, it's like if it was paused (except it is not).
I don't know how to debug this.
I'm with Windows 11. I've tested latest build (portable, default folder settings + new folder), with mpcVR (latest build).
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Pf54IJ1N5XH3gS74vchD4pF0JlFRVjzQ?usp=sharing

Seeking works with mpv in comparison (but I have judder).

[huhn]

all decoder have an issue with that video including hardware that includes nvidia cuvid.

so while i can not say for sure that it is the video it could also be audio stopping the video this file does something and it is not AMD to blame here which is kind of refreshing.

[LigH]

Does it possibly work better after remultiplexing (to MP4 or to MKV, possibly with different options to support proper seeking)?