Media Player Classic - BE Win32/x64

[Liisachan]

Why it for you ? :)

I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly, but currently we're reading the first 4 bytes "sync" from the image data, and we decide it's JPEG if (sync & 0x00ffffff) == 0x00FFD8FF, and it's PNG if sync == MAKEFOURCC(0x89, 'P', 'N', 'G').
Isn't it faster and cleaner to just use the variable dataType, without actually peeking into the image raw data?

[s0meone_new]

I checked the Hungarian translation in r4885. I fixed some things. :)
https://www77.zippyshare.com/v/3FVSmk2u/file.html

[Aleksoid1978]

I'm not sure if I'm understanding correctly, but currently we're reading the first 4 bytes "sync" from the image data, and we decide it's JPEG if (sync & 0x00ffffff) == 0x00FFD8FF, and it's PNG if sync == MAKEFOURCC(0x89, 'P', 'N', 'G').
Isn't it faster and cleaner to just use the variable dataType, without actually peeking into the image raw data?

ffmpeg also with checking data type - also check first bytes from data:)

[Grimsdyke]

Is 'jump to: frame' currently broken ?? No problems with HC.
Would it be possible to also implement a 'frame backwards' function ??

[huhn]

control arrow key left.

[Liisachan]

ffmpeg also with checking data type - also check first bytes from data:)
I guess there is some historical reason, then. Checking the image data helps if the tagging tool is broken and doesn't write the atom flag properly (0x0d for Jpeg, 0x0e for PNG). Probably ffmpeg devs had such broken samples and decided that they couldn't trust the atom flag.

Not a big problem :) Everything is working for me anyway. Thanks again!

[v0lt]

@s0meone_new
Thank. Updated in r4887.

[s0meone_new]

v0lt:
Thank. :) I checked it. The last fix:
https://www55.zippyshare.com/v/YaSx3d1q/file.html

Thanks for everything. All the best. :)

[Klaus1189]

I beg for a new Nightly build of MPC Video Renderer, mine is several days old ;)

[v0lt]

@Klaus1189
MPCVideoRenderer-v0.3.3.934_git2019.11.08-e04319e was uploaded yesterday. :confused:

@s0meone_new
Translation updated in r4889.

MPCVideoRenderer-v0.3.3.936_git2019.11.09-3dcf99a (https://yadi.sk/d/X0EVMKP4TcmnHQ)

[Klaus1189]

@Klaus1189
MPCVideoRenderer-v0.3.3.934_git2019.11.08-e04319e was uploaded yesterday. :confused:

I had only one source:
https://yadi.sk/d/r7JYQ2NjHvE4lA/!%20MPC%20Video%20Renderer

Thanks for the source :)

[ikarad]

good morning,
I would like to know
1) the differences between mpc-hc and mpc-be? I can't find the answer.
2) the diffrerences and advantages of mpc video renderer compared madvr;
Thanks.

[v0lt]

@Klaus1189
This link is in Readme.md (https://github.com/Aleksoid1978/VideoRenderer/blob/master/Readme.md). Look carefully.

[Klaus1189]

Oops, sorry :o

[SuperFist]

I can't seem to get MPC-BE to remember the last file position consistently like MPC-HC. I'm on MPC-BE 1.54 beta build 4850 and it still won't act right with regards to this. Will the nightly builds fix this issue?

[Liisachan]

good morning,
I would like to know
1) the differences between mpc-hc and mpc-be? I can't find the answer. Maybe there are many, many subtle differences between the two (honestly I don't know much). Personally one thing I like about MPC-BE is something very minor: you can maximize the Properties window (Shift+F10). This is very convenient when you read x264 encoder settings in the MediaInfo tab.
One thing I like about MPC-HC is, it still supports VMR9 (renderless), no more supported by MPC-BE. VMR9 works well for me when the Internal Subtitle Renderer is used (not about the highest video quality, but about subtitle frame-accurateness). However I don't use ISR in MPC-BE, so this is not so important after all.

Imho both HC and BE are great players, and perhaps both are about the same for many practical purposes (like watching anime). I think -hc uses the 3rd party LAV filters, while -be uses its own internal filters by default. But optionally you can use external LAV filters too, if you disable internal ones. -hc is currently in the maintenance mode, while -be is being actively developed. So basically you shouldn't ask for new features in MPC-HC, while you could freely request (at least ask) something new to the MPC-BE devs if you'd like to.

[v0lt]

@Liisachan
Take FullHD or 4k videos with sharp lines and object guards. Watch this video in a smaller window (less than 50%) using EVR-CP. You will see how poorly frame reduction works in MPC-HC.
You can make thumbnails for this video. As far as I remember, MPC-HC is also losing here.

[Aleksoid1978]

I can't seem to get MPC-BE to remember the last file position consistently like MPC-HC. I'm on MPC-BE 1.54 beta build 4850 and it still won't act right with regards to this. Will the nightly builds fix this issue?

https://i.imgur.com/se9x5zz.png

[ryrynz]

I can't seem to get MPC-BE to remember the last file position consistently

You need to be clear about your issue. You use the word "consistently" but you provide zero context.

[Liisachan]

@v0lt
Tested 1440×1080 MKV for now. Both MPC-HC and MPC-BE can make thumbnails similarly in EVR-CP, but I noticed something different. When madVR is selected, MPC-BE includes ASS softsubs even if "Include subtitles" is unchecked (both ISR and xysubfilter are tested). The same happens with [Alt]+[I]. With EVR-CP, "Include subtitles" yes/no options work ok. Is this by design?

Further, it seems that S_VOBSUB (not S_ASS) subs are NOT included in thumbnails even if "Include subtitles" is checked, under madVR+xysubfilter. S_VOBSUB subs are included ok with madVR+ISR. Can you reproduce this strange behavior?

[Aleksoid1978]

Liisachan
"Include subtitles" off can not working for madVR because it's can "render" subtitles itself.
About madVR+xysubfilter - ask it's author.
About thumbnails - try for 4K video and see difference :)

[Liisachan]

Liisachan
"Include subtitles" off can not working for madVR because it's can "render" subtitles itself.
About madVR+xysubfilter - ask it's author.
About thumbnails - try for 4K video and see difference :)

Thanks for the explanation. When you have time it'd be nice if you made is so that the "Include subtitles" checkbox is grayed out with/without the check mark depending on the subs are currently enabled/disabled, if that on/off options are not available. Simply disabling or hiding the checkbox when madVR is selected might be enough too...
I'll test 4K when I have a chance. Thanks again :)

EDIT
Tested with Scott4kUhd.mov (4096x2160) from https://archive.org/details/NASA-Ultra-High-Definition: Both HC and BE can generate thumbnails, but quality differences are obvious in some cases (both EVR-CP):

http://faireal.net/image/2019/thumb-hc-be.png
HC (above) vs. BE (below: at least readable)

I'd say each player has its forte and weak points, especially in minor details, rarely used settings, etc. Though personally I don't think such subtle differences are critical in everyday usage, and I don't think one can say MPC-HC is not good because of this limitation, it's true that MPC-BE is being actively improved while MPC-HC is officially inactive, thus perhaps BE tends to be more careful in details.

[v0lt]

Liisachan
You underestimate the problem. Video flickers when reducing the frame size in EVR-CP (in the MPC-HC implementation) as opposed to a static frame. Other issues are becoming noticeable. It is impossible to watch. This is worse than system EVR.
I made a comparative video (https://bayfiles.com/b6a9H6A9n2/EVR_vs_MPC-HC_EVR-CP_mp4). It is better to look at a scale of 100% (Alt + 2).

[huhn]

your video show mpc-hc using NN for downscaling or something like that which is just terribile. butis that the case wuth the current release version of mpc-hc EVR CP respect the choice resizer even for more then 50 % downscaling.

both EVR and EVR-CP in mpc-hc go pretty nuts below 25%(if not 12.5%) scaling mpc-be does a better job here.

both mpc-be and mpc-hc are not the newest vesrion but both are atleast form this year.


no matter how you look at it the thumbnail generation of mpc-hc isn't doing a greate job.

madVR has it's own screenshoot function over writing other settings. options are under rendering -> screenshoots.

another major difference between mpc-be and mpc-hc is youtube video handling. mpc-hc is clearly more powerful because it is not limited at all it supports to many sevices to count... but it's not a part of mpc-hc you have to manuel add youtubedl mpc-be works out of the box.

[Aleksoid1978]

mpc-be also support youtube-dl :)

[huhn]

then i have to ask why go both ways?

[v0lt]

both EVR and EVR-CP in mpc-hc go pretty nuts below 25%(if not 12.5%) scaling mpc-be does a better job here.
I uploaded the video. EVR works correctly for me. Yes, there is a slight difference in working with NV12 and P010. But the result of the MPC-HC EVR-CP is simply incorrect. You can not use pixel interpolation when you do a strong frame reduction, you must use convolution.

[huhn]

yes i saw your video and it's horrific but on the other hand is it realistic?

you scaled 2160p to far below 480p not sure how often that's needed. there is nothing wrong in fixing it obviously but for UHD to FHD EVR-CP in mpc-hc is "ok" and that's an absolute realistic use case.

[v0lt]

yes i saw your video and it's horrific but on the other hand is it realistic?
I watch a lot of video in windowed mode. This example is very revealing, but I notice a problem in less pronounced cases.

The initial question was about the difference between MPC-BE and MPC-HC. I reported the differences of EVR-CP.
If I say that MPC-BE supports DVD-Audio better than MPC-HC, then you also say that this is an unhelpful advantage? If you do not want to hear about the shortcomings of MPC-HC, then this discussion is not for you.

[huhn]

i just don't understand why take such a niche case and not other cases. so i didn't even deny that it better how mpc-be handles this i just have a huge problem seeing the need for this.

i'm just disagreeing on one point and only on the important of that point and i'm already in the "If you do not want to hear about the shortcomings of MPC-HC, then this discussion is not for you." team? if this is to offensive how is it even possible to discuss this if i'm not allowed to stated an opinion and back it up with he question if this is used a lot?

just take easy to see things like direct access to audio and subtitle directly in the control panel.
dual audio output.
LFE redirect.
audio up mixing(never tested it)
HDR->SDR conversation in EVR.

you know this list much better then i do.

[v0lt]

1. I showed how an incorrect frame size reduction in MPC-HC degrades the image. This is a defect. MPC-BE has no such problem.
2. MPC-BE has the ability to interpolate using the Lanczos method. This is a feature. There is no such feature in MPC-HC.

For me, these are two different cases. If the feature is not available, then it is simply not used. If there is a defect, then it is wrong to say "everything is fine".

PS: This is not the first time that the question has been asked "how is MPC-BE different from MPC-HC"? And every time we answer, we hear "nobody uses it", "your feature implementation is not good enough" and other similar arguments. People ask a question, but they don’t need an answer? All this is sad.

[Liisachan]

Liisachan
You underestimate the problem. Video flickers when reducing the frame size in EVR-CP (in the MPC-HC implementation) as opposed to a static frame. Other issues are becoming noticeable. It is impossible to watch. This is worse than system EVR.
I made a comparative video (https://bayfiles.com/b6a9H6A9n2/EVR_vs_MPC-HC_EVR-CP_mp4). It is better to look at a scale of 100% (Alt + 2).

I fully agree with you that in this case, MPC-BE is much better, and for some users, this difference may be critically important. This is clearly a valid answer to the original question by ikarad: “I would like to know [...] the differences between mpc-hc and mpc-be?” showing one of the differences; the difference is significant and objectively there, easily ABX-able (most testers would give the same answer if asked which looks better in double-blind tests).

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was underestimating that. I'm a typesetter, and from my point of view, the problem of MPC-HC is actually bigger in my comparison: one can't read the hardsubbed text at all on MPC-HC, while one can read "From the International Space Station" on MPC-BE. Perhaps for others, here I may sound like overestimating the difference based on what is minor difference for them... Obviously, what is important is different from person to person, because they think differently and use media players differently.

Also, while this is one of the clear differences between the two, many people may feel that this difference is not important for them, not because they're underestimating it, but because they simply use different settings such as madVR. Personally, I still often use VMR9 on MPC-HC where I can explicitly select the resizer=Bicubic. Perhaps this resizer is still slightly worse than MPC-BE's, though, if BE internally uses something like Lanczos3 or Lanczos4 of AviSynth. What I watch is mostly old anime and so for me most video files are still 640x480. I do watch newer ones too, but I seldom, if ever, resize a video smaller than the original (e.g. 50% or less). But that's just for me :)

Anyway, it would be ideal if there are healthy competitions among different open-source media players, each dev trying to improve their software, freely sharing good ideas and freely modifying rival's source-code. Isn't that the beauty of open-source? I respect every one of open-source developers who works as a free person, refusing to be “bought” by big companies. I know what they're doing is difficult because people have real life, and a person has only a limited amount of time. Gabest is no more with us. Officially, MPC-HC is no more active either. We have no reasons at all to disrespect the current, semi-official clsid2 builds of MPC-HC as a whole even if it has weakness in some areas. It's not like I'm trying to underestimate the difference of EVR-CP. I didn't know this difference, and I learned new things. Thanks for taking time to make this demo mp4. It's very enlightening. And thanks for creating MPC-BE in the first place :D

[Zulithe]

Just a heads up, the main nightly build download page on yadi.sk won't allow direct downloads right now. Download limit exceeded.

[v0lt]

@Zulithe
Yes, there was a problem yesterday. There are no download restrictions today.

[Zulithe]

Well, maybe not when you posted that, but the restrictions are back again :) The mirror (linked from your sig) isn't allowing downloads either, though it is not displaying the same error. Just download links never actually download.

[mariner]

HDR output

Greetings Alexis and v0lt, thanks for the effort to keep Gabest's project alive.
As more display monitors are getting HDR capabilities, would it be possible to include HDR as an output option, for both original HDR encoded content, as well as a feature to upscale SDR to HDR?
Many thanks and best regards,

[Aleksoid1978]

HDR -> SDR support only by internal EVR-CP and it's not support HDR passthrough - for it you can use madVR.
Bug - maybe if someone sponsors the purchase of TV with HDR i try to implement HDR passthrough in MPC Video Renderer.

[Grimsdyke]

Download is again rejected on Yadi. Are there other places to download latest builds/nightlies ??

[amayra]

Download is again rejected on Yadi. Are there other places to download latest builds/nightlies ??

https://yadi.sk/d/hlf1lfC8mKU58/!_last

but you need to login and save it to downlad it i hope dev do something about that i did try to make script to auto update in the past but there to many site when i see this :
https://mpc-be.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4

[v0lt]

Яндекс.Диск (yadi.sk) limits downloads with a certain number of downloads per day. The next day, the limit is usually reset.
We do not have a solution to this problem yet.

[Klaus1189]

Too many users who want to use nightly builds, not a problem, just growing number of users :)

[Zulithe]

It's fine, I just wanted to make sure it was pointed out that people are experiencing the download limit. I created an account which lets you bypass it so won't be a problem for me going forward on this host.

[amayra]

Яндекс.Диск (yadi.sk) limits downloads with a certain number of downloads per day. The next day, the limit is usually reset.
We do not have a solution to this problem yet.

i mean you"BE Team" have repository and sometime you change the host without notifications i hope in the future to stuck up to one host file
so my script "auto-updater" can find the last version easy

[hubi73]

There is a version of 1.5.4.4905 with different size and two virus scanners found something in it.

https://yadi.sk/d/hlf1lfC8mKU58/1.5.4.4905 MPC-BE.1.5.4.4905.x64-installer.zip 12,9 MB (unzipped)
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/ac8f1b1490d0ef05dca93144906ec1e3ec5ed2ba9aef886afed63b9439d42a11/detection > clean

https://www.videohelp.com/software/MPC-BE/old-versions#downloadold MPC-BE.1.5.4.4905.x64-installer.zip 13,8 MB (unzipped)
and
https://yadi.sk/d/r7JYQ2NjHvE4lA/Beta/1.5.4/old/1.5.4.4905 MPC-BE.1.5.4.4905.x64-installer.zip 13,8 MB
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/c2552d0174c9da4c9e9b50ae091ba8e98034723cc08c7b4f491fb166802d2c8d/detection > 2 detections

All are official links form V0lt on this site https://mpc-be.org/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4

Any explanation? Does it contain adware?

[edwdevel]

Hi, I have not used MPC-BE in months, and suddenly at work build 2548 and 4850 abend immediately upon trying to open a video file- MPC-BE does come up, open video selection sreens, and promptly abend. At work, we have implemented new virus software, which may explain the current immediate abends (if the software "fixed" the virus). So, the question is: is there any way to determine if this is what caused the immediate abend? I can run MPC-BE under visual studio and stop at the crash, if this helps.

Obviously, one hopes that no virus was inserted into MPC-BE. :)

[v0lt]

hubi73
Perhaps reacted to "Inno Setup 6.0" or "Inno Download Plugin 1.6".

I recommend using "Inno setup 5.6.1" and "Inno Download Plugin 1.5.1", but people can use other components.

[v0lt]

... So, the question is: is there any way to determine if this is what caused the immediate abend? I can run MPC-BE under visual studio and stop at the crash, if this helps.
Yes. You can build the debug version and run it.
A small compilation guide - https://sourceforge.net/p/mpcbe/code/HEAD/tree/trunk/docs/Compilation.txt

[hubi73]

@V0lt
Who compiled/created the exe in the link with the shorter file https://yadi.sk/d/hlf1lfC8mKU58/!_last, is it you?

[amayra]

so if you don't use SourceForge how about use GitLab or Bitbucket as file host only if you don't like GitHub

[Liisachan]

There is a version of 1.5.4.4905 with different size and two virus scanners found something in it. VirusTotal/Jotti are not so reliable. It has so many different engines (some of which may be crappy) that one or two false positives are not so rare.