Auto Gordian Knot: current version 2.55

[evil ryu]

I tried to convert "21 Grams" in DivX. I set 1 CD (700 MB) as output size and I got 702 MB as result.
Is it a bug of AutoGK?
I encoded a lot of films with previous versions and results were always accurate.

[ydobon]

Hello all.

Thanks Len0x for adding the language comments. One less step to do manually :)

I've been using AutoGK quite intensivelly lately and it's almost perfect. I'm even writing a "tutorial" for friends so they stop asking how to do a dvd backup :D

There's one little thing (ain't always one :)) that I've missed: an "All Subtitles" option in the subtitles dropdown menu. Sometimes, especially with movies with forced subtitles, I want to have 3 or 4 subtitle tracks. Right now I do it directly with VobSub (then doing the movies of 700-n MB, being n the size of the RARed subtitles), but it would be sweet to have it as an option.

@evil ryu:
In case of a few MB extra-size I usually solve it tweaking the audio/video interleaving in VDubMod.

Regards

[nightrhyme]

A few questions about the way AutoGK determines AR:

I just made a few encodings of Forrest Gump to try and get AR= 2.35:1.
AutoGK Video Info :PAL - 720x576 - 16:9 Anamorphic - 25fps - 2:16:17.000

First Try: Resolution Settings = Minimum Width 640. End Result resolution = 640 x 256

Second Try: Resolution Settings = Fixed Width 704. End Result = 704 x 288.

Third Try: Resolution Settings = Auto Width. End Result = 572 x 230 or something like that. Don't quite remember since I deleted it. Just remember AR was wrong again.

I can't seem to get AR = 2.35:1. Am I doing something wrong ?

Hope you can help this poor newbee :rolleyes:

Thanx in advance guys

[manono]

Hi nightrhyme-

Do you still have the vobs and the .d2v? Can you try something? Open the .d2v in GKnot, and crop away the black, but not into the active video. Then have a look at the AR (the one below Smart Crop All). My guess is that it'll say something between 2.42-2.45. The point is that many so-called 2.35:1 movies aren't really 2.35:1. When you see that 2.42 or so, you'll also note that there's a large Aspect Error, and further cropping will be done to bring down that error.

So the Auto-Crop cropped further to give low Aspect Error, and at 640x256 you wound up with a 2.50:1 movie, and at 704x288 you got a 2.44:1 movie (probably pretty close to what it really is). I think that with the latest 1.23b update it now crops the width to Mod 16, instead of Mod 32, so you can conceivably wind up with 656x272 (2.41:1). That probably won't satisfy you, but the only way around your problem is to do it in GKnot and crop heavily into the left and right sides to get the 2.35:1, 640x272 that you want.

AutoGK doesn't give you bad or wrong AR. It just sometimes doesn't give you the one you want or expect. When the Aspect Error is low, then the AR is OK.

But I could be wrong in my guess as to what Forrest Gump is. And for exactly how AutoGK determines how and what to crop, to achieve low Aspect Error, len0x will have to answer, if he feels like it.

[len0x]

Originally posted by manono
I think that with the latest 1.23b update it now crops the width to Mod 16, instead of Mod 32, so you can conceivably wind up with 656x272 (2.41:1).


not quite. mod 16 is for fixed width selection only. It doesn't apply to crop at all, but only to resize step. I wonder if I should make automatic resize mod 16 or leave it at mod as it is now

Originally posted by manono

But I could be wrong in my guess as to what Forrest Gump is. And for exactly how AutoGK determines how and what to crop, to achieve low Aspect Error, len0x will have to answer, if he feels like it.

AutoGK tries to maintain AR it's got after crop within mod32 width restriction and mod16 height restriction by cropping more pixels.

[len0x]

Originally posted by ((( atom )))
autogk under linux... actually we could develop a script that does the steps like autogk does them.


I'm not familiar with linux video processing tools, but AutoGK heavily relies on so many win32 applications which cannot be easily substituted, that I hardly can imagine doing so.

Originally posted by ((( atom )))

@len0x:
in case anybody really starts such a script, would you share some of the methods autogk uses to make its decisions? you put a lot of work and thoughts into them and i think they work very well.

I'm not really sure that I want to be involved in this (since a lot of info you can find by reading this forum already) and before anyone starts developing something based on AutoGK or its ideas I strongly suggest reading section 2 of license it comes with.

[Taurus]

Originally posted by len0x
I wonder if I should make automatic resize mod 16 or leave it at mod as it is now

Haven't got any disadvantages while using mod 16. I only use Xvid, so I cannot speak for Divx.
You gain much more freedom on resolution choices and the comp test should also profit from more usable selections (to hit more exactly desired comp test value).
But as it is now, I'm satisfied with you're chosen decisions.
It's just, if you can do more, you will use it.
Best regards

Taurus

[manono]

Hi-

not quite. mod 16 is for fixed width selection only. It doesn't apply to crop at all, but only to resize step.

Sorry, my mistake-I should have said that it resizes to Mod 16. But since you say, len0x, that it applies only to fixed width selection, then it wouldn't have helped nightrhyme much anyway, unless he had chosen 656*xxx to begin with.

I wonder if I should make automatic resize mod 16 or leave it at mod (32) as it is now

I've started paying more attention recently to what the AR is on the DVD after cropping the black away, and I'm finding more and more "2.35:1" movies that are really between 2.40-2.45:1. I agree with nightrhyme that 640x256 is too narrow, even if it has low Aspect Error, and when setting up an .avs in GKnot, I'll always make them 640x272 by using the Pixel Crop to crop more from the left and right. But with those cases, 656x272 would be closer to the AR of the DVD.

In addition, I'm seeing more and more 4:3 full screen classic movies, particularly Warner Home Video DVDs, with no black bars anywhere. Those are in the true Academy Ratio of 1.37:1, instead of 1.33:1. And although I've always made my movies with a Mod 32 width, with those, I'll often make them 528x384, instead of the more standard 512x384, to avoid cropping into the video. For example, you know that Marx Brothers Collection that we were discussing? I've just had a look at my R1 DVD of A Night At The Opera and there's not a black bar to be seen, and if you crop 8 pixels from each side to get, for example, 512x384, then you're losing quite a bit of the active video, whereas 528x384 works nicely.

So, I don't know what I'd recommend. I've always been a believer myself in Mod 32 widths, but under some circumstances I'll make it Mod 16. As Taurus says above, by allowing Mod 16 widths, you get more resolution choices, and under some circumstances you can end up closer to the DVD AR.

[((( atom )))]

Originally posted by len0x
I'm not familiar with linux video processing tools, but AutoGK heavily relies on so many win32 applications which cannot be easily substituted, that I hardly can imagine doing so.

under linux there is mplayer/mencoder that also functions as a front-end for e.g. xvid and lame. it can read dvd and so it can encode straight into xvid/lame or whatever format one chooses. it can crop, resize filter all in one app.
that is why it would actually make sense to set up a nice script that automates encoding totally.

Originally posted by len0x
I'm not really sure that I want to be involved in this (since a lot of info you can find by reading this forum already) and before anyone starts developing something based on AutoGK or its ideas I strongly suggest reading section 2 of license it comes with.

i am afraid you got me wrong here. most of the needed information can be found in the forum, you are right. there might only be some little details left that you could provide nice help with. for instance the decision chain on when to swith to what res. or when to drop b-frames are mede very nicely in autogk and it would make sense to use these as well. also a script like that would just be a script, fully open to everybody. i was not talking about an app with a gui and all. the commandline is linuxes charm :)
last things to say are that i don't actually plan writing such script, i was just thinking about it and if you felt uncomfortable with such script i would make sure to figure the needed stuff on my own of course.

[Stebs]

Hoooray! Finally Xvid 1.0 Final is out!
http://koepi.roeder.goe.net/xvid.shtml

Changelog:
- Minor fixes for trellis quantization
- Speedup for vhq>1 modes
- Fix for broken divx5 bitstreams
- Fix for fps=1 scenarios
- Fixed some tooltips in VfW GUI

[len0x]

I wonder if I should just build 1.25 stable full pack then :)

[Hobojobo]

Originally posted by len0x
I wonder if I should just build 1.25 stable full pack then :)

Yeah !!!

[ydobon]

You "wonder"!?!

Just do it! Do you know how many times I've checked
http://www.autogk.net/web/ today? :D :D :D

And yes 1.25 is nicer than 1.24 :)


Regards

[len0x]

Originally posted by ydobon
You "wonder"!?!

Just do it! Do you know how many times I've checked
http://www.autogk.net/web/ today? :D :D :D

And yes 1.25 is nicer than 1.24 :)


I'll check with Neuron2 regarding DVD2AVIdg since I'm using release candidate of that tool. If he plans to release stable version today - I'll wait. If not then I'll release full pack as it is.

I have 1.24 on my PC for a while (with actiually more small changes than any pos 1.0 beta so far) that's why I'm planning to skip 1.24 and get to 1.25 :)

[Outerspacelord]

I see that from AutoGK v1.22 - number of frames is detected correctly with new DVD2AVIdg. What about latest GK, would it also correctly detect number of frames with new DVD2AVIdg v1.30 RC3?

I also see that the .avs script in GK writes the Undot() after resize, as opposed to AutoGK which write the Undot() before. Should I care?

Reason I ask is because while trying encode XviD the PAL 16:9 3h 7min long 10th Anniversary Edition of Schindler's List AutoGK v1.23 will not crop as I would want.

Experimenting with Autocrop/Smart Crop etc. in GK I found a few things about this movie. To get it right I had to turn off 'Follow ITU-R BT.601 Standard' and set the 'W-Modul' to 16. Then I had to manually do the Pixel Crop since Auto and Smart Crop did it wrong. I cropped 12 pixels both from top and bottom, 2 pixels from left and 0 from right. That is the perfect crop looking at the previw window. Then when I set movie to 592x320 the aspect was perfect.
Auto crop seemed to crop 2 pixels to much from top and bottom setting it to 14. And for some strange reason it would crop 2 pixels from right instead of from the left which would actually cut something from the picture at right side and leaving some black at left when looking at the preview window.

So for len0x I have a wishlist ...
I know AutoGK should be as auto as possible. But since we know u don't have much time for GK these days, it would anyhow been nice if you put some hard to find hidden and almost secret options i AutoGK which made not so auto :) I saw you said something about .ini config? Nice.

Ok, my wishlist:

1. Make it possible to do a manual crop (maybe also avaiable after comptest?) with a preview window like in GK.

2. Ability to turn off 'Follow ITU-R BT.601 Standard'.

--- --- ---

Schindler's List is a 2 DVD release. AutoGK works just fine renaming vobs from dvd2 and moving them in dvd1 dir. Only problem then is the subs that will break after dvd1. Anyone got a solution?

[len0x]

Originally posted by Outerspacelord
I see that from AutoGK v1.22 - number of frames is detected correctly with new DVD2AVIdg. What about latest GK, would it also correctly detect number of frames with new DVD2AVIdg v1.30 RC3?


It should, but I always recommend using DVD2AVI which is supplied with AutoGK package (anyway 1.25 will have 1.3.0 RC3 inside).

Originally posted by Outerspacelord
I also see that the .avs script in GK writes the Undot() after resize, as opposed to AutoGK which write the Undot() before. Should I care?


Even when using GK I put undot before resize for quality reasons (you can check that option on save avs window - put filters before resize).

Originally posted by Outerspacelord
1. Make it possible to do a manual crop (maybe also avaiable after comptest?) with a preview window like in GK.
2. Ability to turn off'Follow ITU-R BT.601 Standard'.


Both items will never be allowed. The only crop setting I'm planning to allow is autocrop threshold value and nuber of examined frames(which can change crop values quite a lot).

*Edit*
Just to make my position more clear. How many out of all users of AutoGK do actually care about two pixels when cropping? I mean I understand why one would want that but just the fact that you actually looking at how much cropping was done after encode in real GK means that you are not the targeted user of the application.

[Outerspacelord]

Thx for quick response len0x ... AutoGK is great :).

Maybe u read my first question to quick hehe. What I asked was if Gordian Knot v0.28.8 also correctly would detect number of frames with new DVD2AVIdg v1.3x (supplied with eg. AutoGK)

Edit: Oh I see, u wrote it should ... I suppose this means GK should. sorry for that one hehe

i have also been to quick since I have not seen the 'option on save avs window - put filters before resize'. I have done it manually lately just cause I saw u do it for Auto GK.

[len0x]

Just to be on the safe side I'm releasing still beta which has status of Release Candidate. This version should have slight speed increase on SSE2 enables PCs (since finally decoding of mpeg2 source is done with appropriate iDCT).

[len0x]

And server died as usual but not hacked as xvid one :)

[QNX]

len0x

what about latest vdubmod in autogk?

and maybe you need one more mirror :D

[len0x]

Latest VDubMod (1.5.10.x) is not stable enough.

Download mirrors are never down, its just main website is f$cked atm (they promised me to have it up in 15 min, so still waiting)...

*Edit*
Grab 1.24 here (http://len0xmirror1.serveftp.net/~len0x/AutoGordianKnot.1.24.beta.Update.exe) while server is down.

[rantingotaku]

<-- does the happy dance (you know, those annoying little hamster dances) :p

just a few issues with the installer...

1. it overwrites the besweet dir everytime there is a new release of autoGK.. this is kind of annoying since I have oggmachine and a few other apps in there (gone after update), requiring me to dig them out of one of my HD's and replace again.

2. no option to uncheck besweet / avisynth etc in the installer. I already have them in from previous releases, and since they are the same version, why reinstall?

3. this one is for the most recent release only... older versions gave option to uninstall xvid, this one did not. not really a big problem, but kind of annoying going through setup and having it quit until you remove xvid manually.

enough blabbering from me. amazing work so far, looking forward to what you have in store for us next.

[Taurus]

@rantingotaku

just a few issues with the installer...

So, this is AutoGk, not a mixup of different programs.
If you like your apps to be save, why no just build a new folder on your HD and put them in there?
I have different versions of BeSweet in different folders and never ran into trouble.
I guess lenOx puts all the apps necessary to run AutoGk in the Beta Updates, to make sure that they are working properly, and not to worry about mixed up installations, done by newbies.
And there is no harm, just pressing update and let everything go its way. All files are getting overwritten nice. Never had a problem on this.(I mean AviSynth and Xvid too).
And look at it from a developers point of view....
Have a nice day

Taurus
Edit:If you are really in need to put all your files back to the BeSweet directory in AutoGk folder: Why don't you just write a little script, a batch file, which takes care of this. Place it on your desktop, and everytime AutoGk is updated, just press the button and you're done.

[rmagere]

When I press ctrl-F10 I get two audiotracks enabled but not the two subtitles.

[len0x]

Originally posted by rmagere
When I press ctrl-F10 I get two audiotracks enabled but not the two subtitles.

FAQ 3.2

[len0x]

Originally posted by rantingotaku

1. it overwrites the besweet dir everytime there is a new release of autoGK.. this is kind of annoying since I have oggmachine and a few other apps in there (gone after update), requiring me to dig them out of one of my HD's and replace again.


That will be gone after next stable release. DG asked me to remove some dll from my besweet distribution, so I did. I'll make it again so that its always overwrittent, but nothing is deleted.

Originally posted by rantingotaku

2. no option to uncheck besweet / avisynth etc in the installer. I already have them in from previous releases, and since they are the same version, why reinstall?


Avisynth will not be compulsory, but BeSweet always be since that is a core application.

Originally posted by rantingotaku

3. this one is for the most recent release only... older versions gave option to uninstall xvid, this one did not. not really a big problem, but kind of annoying going through setup and having it quit until you remove xvid manually.


I'm not quite sure this one is for me as I don't write XviD installers. My setup only checks if xvid.dll is present (from xvid 0.9.x) and warn user asking him to uninstall it. Newer XviD installer may be indeed requires manual uninstallation, but you can safely overwrite any 1.x versions.

[FSB-SPY]

len0x:

I just took a look at my encodes through gSpot and for audio bitrate it says it is CBR 320; when all along I have been choosing VBR 320 under the advanced settings in AutoGK. Is there a way to get it to be VBR 320? CBR 320 is a big waste.

[Black0ut]

probably vbr320 means to autogk "alt preset extreme" and that is cbr 320kbit...

[len0x]

Originally posted by FSB-SPY
I just took a look at my encodes through gSpot and for audio bitrate it says it is CBR 320; when all along I have been choosing VBR 320 under the advanced settings in AutoGK. Is there a way to get it to be VBR 320? CBR 320 is a big waste.

having look at the logs I can see that 'alt-preset 320' was used but BeSweet for some reasons din't write VBR header into mp3 file, so its considered to be CBR when in fact its not (and sound will be out if synch probably in avi). this should be reported in audio forum.

[Black0ut]

I just wanted to make clear that -alt-preset 320 IS NOT VBR. So it is not BeSweet's fault. alt preset 320 is designed to give best quality and nothings better than 320kbps in mp3. ;)

[len0x]

I'm not sure you're right, coz in the logs I see:

'using ABR 320'
Average bitrate is 319kbps

[Black0ut]

well, i have encoded something in alt preset 320 and it definately was CBR

[yotsuya-san]

Blackout is right. alt-preset 320=alt-preset cbr 320=alt-preset insane. They all produce a cbr file (just try to encode through command-line LAME).

--abr 320 switch produces a "real" abr file. It depends on what switch AutoGK uses.

[AlmanNewfred]

If sound is so important that you are using 320 kbps, why not just use the AC3 audio?

[len0x]

guys, BeSweet 1.5b28 produces _identical_ files and logs for -alt-preset 320 and --abr 320 modes. Dunno if its a bug, but its a fact.
Test it yourself.

[len0x]

Btw, I've enrolled in ads program, so now those who can't contrubute by donating can contrubute by clicking on google ads on my website. :) Thanks.

[yotsuya-san]

Originally posted by len0x
guys, BeSweet 1.5b28 produces _identical_ files and logs for -alt-preset 320 and --abr 320 modes.

Just tried with BeSweet version included in GordianKnot 0.28.8:

"C:\Program Files\GordianKnot\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\Documents and Settings\fede\My Documents\wav_temp\1.wav" -output "C:\Documents and Settings\fede\My Documents\wav_temp\1.mp3" ) -lame( -p --alt-preset 320 ) gives me a cbr file@320 kbps.

"C:\Program Files\GordianKnot\BeSweet.exe" -core( -input "C:\Documents and Settings\fede\My Documents\wav_temp\1.wav" -output "C:\Documents and Settings\fede\My Documents\wav_temp\1.mp3" ) -lame( -p --abr 320 ) an abr one@315 kbps.

Source is a the first minute of Radiohead's Idioteque.

So, that seems to work correctly...

[len0x]

Originally posted by yotsuya-san
So, that seems to work correctly...

i'm getting tired of all this - what's the point of comparing different versions of besweet ??? b26 which is used in GK indeed produces correct results (but log still states "'abr 320' preset is used" for actual --alt-preset 320, although file seems to be CBR), but b28 is not producing VBR for --abr 320 (log has this "'abr 320' preset is used" as well).

[yotsuya-san]

Originally posted by len0x
what's the point of comparing different versions of besweet ???

Nothing more than prove that maybe b26 is right and b28 is wrong...but if it's a waste of time, I immediately shut up. Bye.

[Digga]

to clear all this fuss about cbr/abr 320 etc up (using Lame 3.96):

"--preset insane" results in CBR 320kbps.
"--preset 320" will result in CBR 320kbps (though it is supposed to give abr, 320 is the highest non-freeform bitrate, thus choosing cbr).
"--preset cbr 320" will of course also result in CBR 320.

hope this clears things up, someone correct if I'm wrong.

[Ogig]

320 kbit is such an insanely high bitrate that you wouldn't possibly be able to notice any differences if it were encoded with CBR or VBR, so I see no need to change anything. :sly:

[daberti]

Trying to encode Dances With Wolves settings follow......
(using Divx for compatibilty issues experienced against DVD737 and XVID lately, despite ESS standalone patch)

[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Audio: Italiano
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Subtitles: none
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Codec: DivX
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Target size: 2100Mb
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Custom resolution settings: minimum width of 640 pixels
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Custom audio settings: AC3
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Started encoding.
[19/05/2004 10.46.03] Demuxing and indexing.
[19/05/2004 10.57.18] Analyzing source.
[19/05/2004 11.08.21] Source is considered to be progressive.
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Found 336330 frames
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Audio size: 753,396,224 bytes (718.49 Mb)
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Overhead: 10,485,248 bytes (10.00 Mb)
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Video size: 1,438,128,128 bytes (1371.51 Mb)
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Target bitrate is: 855kbps
[19/05/2004 11.08.24] Running compressibility test.
[19/05/2004 11.21.32] Duration was: 13 minutes 3 seconds
[19/05/2004 11.21.32] Speed was: 21,45 fps.
[19/05/2004 11.21.34] Compressibility percentage is: 39,88
[19/05/2004 11.21.34] Using softer resizer.
[19/05/2004 11.21.34] Chosen resolution is: 640x272 ( AR: 2,35 )
[19/05/2004 11.21.34] Predicted comptest value is: 52,27

I'd really wish to keep original audio without giving up to video quality, thus a fourth CD option would really be appreciated.

Any hints Lenox?

[len0x]

Originally posted by Digga
to clear all this fuss about cbr/abr 320 etc up (using Lame 3.96):


that's not useful either since besweet uses 3.90 engine where that might gave been different.

[len0x]

Originally posted by daberti
I'd really wish to keep original audio without giving up to video quality, thus a fourth CD option would really be appreciated.


what stops you from manually entering 2800MB?
(of course splitting has to be done manually)

[daberti]

Originally posted by len0x
what stops you from manually entering 2800MB?
(of course splitting has to be done manually)

Quite right :)
Would you be so kind as to point me to a HOWTO for splitting?

Thanks

[rmagere]

Originally posted by daberti
Quite right :)
Would you be so kind as to point me to a HOWTO for splitting?


This strikes me as quite a lazy request, I mean this website is covered with easily findable, clearly sorted guides for doing almost anything with video files. Anyway have a look at http://www.doom9.org/virtualdub_procedures.htm#Splitting

[len0x]

topic can be closed after this discussion: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=76475

[daberti]

Originally posted by rmagere
This strikes me as quite a lazy request, I mean this website is covered with easily findable, clearly sorted guides for doing almost anything with video files. Anyway have a look at http://www.doom9.org/virtualdub_procedures.htm#Splitting

Thanks

[FSB-SPY]

Originally posted by Ogig
320 kbit is such an insanely high bitrate that you wouldn't possibly be able to notice any differences if it were encoded with CBR or VBR, so I see no need to change anything. :sly:

Then I suppose you do not know what VBR means...? Not every second could possibly require a bitrate of 320, some may only require 128 or (on average, to achieve transparency, only 192 [3.96, not sure about 3.90 Lame]), even lower... all these lower bitrates mean saving in filesize, which translates into more room for video.

I do not know about you, but I am all about getting the most quality without sacrificing anything.

I am no audiophile, but I cannot tell the difference between VBR 320 and CBR 320 as far as audio quality is concerned. But show me the file size difference and I will spring for VBR. :)

[len0x]

Originally posted by FSB-SPY
Then I suppose you do not know what VBR means...?

Strictly speaking its not VBR, its ABR that it is used which means average birate. In that prospective 320kbps ABR doesn't make sense since maximum is 320 and therefore to get exact average you have to do CBR 320. If you set it lower than 320 ABR then it should work as expected.