CoreCodec/H.264 Codec "CoreAVC"

[ChronoCross]

For Windows OS you mean...because what about mplayer's patch (http://code.google.com/p/coreavc-for-linux/) to work on Linux ? :p

Currently, I'm able to use CoreAVC on my XP *and* on my Debian.

well it's supposed to be for a single OS.

[CiNcH]

Demo didn't make it till tuesday, did it?

[BetaBoy]

We are working on sales as we speak now and will have it out within a few hours.... demo to follow after that.

[BetaBoy]

On Linux.... I have discussed this a few times in this thread... We have juggled the idea of releasing our stand alone decoder library for Linux for a few months now. But there is a larger momentum internally to go the larger route (not just one decoder) that would allow third parties to take advantage of all the CorePlayer Platform decoders including ones not released to the public in stand alone form (CoreASP, CoreSVC, CoreAAC, CoreMP3, CoreDVD, CoreAC3, CoreWMA, CoreWMV, CoreVC1 as well as all our other decoders; 3GP, AMR, etc.)... We will talk more about it as devel moves closer.

Also on Linux... you will see by the end of the year that we have a bunch of CE licensees that are using CoreAVC Linux for various uses; DVR, PMP, MP, Set top box, etc. and yes some take advantage of onboard GPU.

[CruNcher]

@Betaboy

it's cool to see that CoreCodec optimized Decoders are gonna be used so widely in CE Devices :) a massive attack this is indeed, so it should be in the future possible to free CoreAVC from it's commercial chain for the average joye shouldn't it ;)

But the most important question of all what is up with the CoreAVC Encoder and How about DVD, HD-DVD and or Blu-Ray licenses for CorePlayer and how will the Speed and Energy usage of Coreplayer look like compared vs PowerDVD with Hardware accelleration on Windows Vista/XP ? (People shouldn't forget that the PV1/PV2 and UVD core also need Energy also if CPU usage is lower that says nothing about how high the GPU usage is and how much energy it needs to achive those framerates and for playback you only need to achive the framerates of the movie (+ overhead for Parseing/and Audio Decoding and maybe decryption) and not some benchmark results of 1xx frames hehe but people seem to forget this another thing ofcourse for (Hardware Encoding) ;)

PS: It would be cool if CoreCodec would design the XboX 360 Dashboard Multithreaded Decoder (AVC,VC1,ASP) next as Microsofts Engineers seem to have problems there to get it more performant even i would by a Xbox 360 then (i think this would be a real adventure for Picard) ;)

[Selur]

btw. any news about Windows version of CorePlayer?

[deets]

come on im sitting here waiting to give you my money for my new system :P

[BetaBoy]

A small delay as we have gone beyond what we wanted to do, but its all good.... the installer will now also support X64 Vista (not native x64). If we have a few volunteers that have already purchased CoreAVC and have x64 that want to test it, email me betaboy@corecodec.com

[comrinec]

How much does the coreavc decoder cost? I can't seem to find pricing or a place to buy it on the offical website and forum registration doesn't seem to be working there either.

Is it still faster at decoding than ffdshow? I get around 90% cpu usage using ffdshow on my athlon 3500 when I play the 1080p apple trailers.

[Pomyk]

Are there any plans to fix the motion vector issue?

[ChronoCross]

Are there any plans to fix the motion vector issue?

what issue? The motion vector thing is something in the specs of h264 and was corrected in the latest x264 revisions. Coreavc shouldn't have to handle things that the spec doesn't particularly support.

Else they will have to support every random quirk.

[Pomyk]

It is a bit out of spec but it doesnt mean it can't be implemented. Should be trivial even.

[deets]

A small delay as we have gone beyond what we wanted to do, but its all good.... the installer will now also support X64 Vista (not native x64). If we have a few volunteers that have already purchased CoreAVC and have x64 that want to test it, email me betaboy@corecodec.com

i will when i can buy it :)

[Revgen]

Well I didn't have the original source for the 5000kbps encode I told you about earlier, so I made a new one by bob-deinterlacing (with mvbob) some ATSC 1080i basketball footage.

Unfortunately, this 5000kbps 1080p 60fps encode didn't play at 59.94fps. The earlier one was encoded about a year ago or more.

All tests below are done by watcing the "statistics" while playing in WMP. I don't trust Haali's tester because sometimes it plays vids slower or faster than I can play them in WMP. I haven't figured out why though.

CPU: Athlon X2 Dual-Core 4600+
CoreAVC Version 1.5

Settings for all encodes: --keyint 600 --ref 5 --mixed-refs --bframes 2 --b-pyramid --b-rdo --bime --weightb --filter -2,-1 --subme 6 --analyse all --8x8dct --threads auto --thread-input --progress --no-psnr --no-ssim

Title: Basketball 1080p 60fps
Bitrate: 10000
Results:
Deblocking ON: 45fps
Deblocking OFF: 54fps <- Speed really improves here. Just a tad slower than the 5000kbps one. Even though it's only 2fps slower, it was a noticeable slowdown. The high bitrate keeps the lack of deblocking from looking too ugly.

Title: Basketball 1080p 60fps
Bitrate: 5000kbps
Results:
Deblocking ON: 51FPS
Deblocking OFF: 56FPS <- Looks pretty smooth even though it's not full speed. Quality is awful though.

Title: Basketball 720p 60fps
Bitrate: 10000
Results:
Deblocking ON: 59.94fps
Deblocking OFF: N/A

Title: Basketball 720p 60fps
Bitrate: 5000
Results:
Deblocking ON: 59.94fps
Deblocking OFF: N/A

Conclusion: Well aparrently I shouldn't need Quad-Core to get full speed at 5000kbps quality. I should only have to upgrade to Core Duo from my older Athlon X2. 51fps @ 1080p isn't bad for a 1st gen dual-core though. I wonder if Core Duo would be able to push the 45fps for the 10000kbps encode to 60fps or if a Quad is required to do so.

So, if any of you have Core Duo's or Quads and want to try these vids, I have the encodes below. I'm going to upload the 1080's for now, but if any of you want the 720's I can upload those too if you're interested.

Please tell me your results!

Basketball 1080p 60fps 10000kpbs

http://www.mediafire.com/?9y2xdhwwwdc

Basketball 1080p 60fps 5000kbps

http://www.mediafire.com/?cxsgwssnwz2

[bmnot]

what issue? The motion vector thing is something in the specs of h264 and was corrected in the latest x264 revisions. Coreavc shouldn't have to handle things that the spec doesn't particularly support.

Else they will have to support every random quirk.

Well could they add some option to hide the glitches or something, like cyberlink filters and vlc do?

[pookguy88]

I want to start using CoreAVC but I can't seem to get it to work. Right now I'm using Vista and ffdshow (CCCP). After I install CoreAVC (1.5) and uncheck the h264 decoding in CCCP; I goto play a h264 file in MPC and it says it can't find a codec. When I switch it back to use ffdshow it works just fine.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks!

[BetaBoy]

We have about 20 ppl testing Vista x64 and XP x64 now (thanx to all who emailed me!). It should only take a few hours for feedback so we can make any last minute adjustments (if needed) and release it.

[ChronoCross]

It is a bit out of spec but it doesnt mean it can't be implemented. Should be trivial even.

You should fix the streams rather than trying to alter the codec.

[Dark Shikari]

You should fix the streams rather than trying to alter the codec.
That's like saying you should fix the highway rather than make the car work on the road. People can't change the streams they receive (nor can CoreCodec), but the customers can go and decide to use libvacodec instead of CoreAVC.

[oddball]

BetaBoy any word on if you will do anything about those out of spec motion vectors? A simple 'Yes we will fix it' or 'No we won't because it's out of spec' will suffice.

[pookguy88]

We have about 20 ppl testing Vista x64 and XP x64 now (thanx to all who emailed me!). It should only take a few hours for feedback so we can make any last minute adjustments (if needed) and release it.

how about Vista x86?

[BetaBoy]

@Betaboy

it's cool to see that CoreCodec optimized Decoders are gonna be used so widely in CE Devices :) a massive attack this is indeed, so it should be in the future possible to free CoreAVC from it's commercial chain for the average joye shouldn't it ;)

But the most important question of all what is up with the CoreAVC Encoder and How about DVD, HD-DVD and or Blu-Ray licenses for CorePlayer and how will the Speed and Energy usage of Coreplayer look like compared vs PowerDVD with Hardware accelleration on Windows Vista/XP ? (People shouldn't forget that the PV1/PV2 and UVD core also need Energy also if CPU usage is lower that says nothing about how high the GPU usage is and how much energy it needs to achive those framerates and for playback you only need to achive the framerates of the movie (+ overhead for Parseing/and Audio Decoding and maybe decryption) and not some benchmark results of 1xx frames hehe but people seem to forget this another thing ofcourse for (Hardware Encoding) ;)

PS: It would be cool if CoreCodec would design the XboX 360 Dashboard Multithreaded Decoder (AVC,VC1,ASP) next as Microsofts Engineers seem to have problems there to get it more performant even i would by a Xbox 360 then (i think this would be a real adventure for Picard) ;)

CruNcher.... don't forget about Matroska adoption as well!!! We will have millions of hardware devices supporting it by the end of the year ;-)

On the CoreAVC encoder... while it would be great to put it out there publically, we think our efforts are better spent on CoreSVC since it is the future. We can always back track at that point and release CoreAVC as a standalone encoder.

On GPU.... our beliefs are the reliance in DXVA is a mistake by GPU vendors as a short cut and unnecessarily locks third party vendors into restraints right from the get go. While DXVA is more than just for decoding, its also for video processing and capturing (amung other things), we feel its outright overkill.

Although I am sure zambelli would disagree... Simple i/o hooks and a K.I.S.S. approach is needed.... don't believe all the other talk about what is required for GPU, and I am not going to comment on specific functions as they are pretty well known on these forums. Simply put, something needs to be done for the future of GPU and marketing must be fixed in order to move forward and garner mass adoption (Linux comes to mind first when thinking about this).

[BetaBoy]

how about Vista x86?

Thats done...

[bob0r]

@comrinec
CoreAVC 1.5 is much much faster than ffdshow, also still a lot faster than Cyberlink H.264 decoder.
Even with GPU support (and deblocking disable < voiding spec) Cyberlink is slower.

Ateme is running another test on Satellite too: HD5 on DVB-S2 Astra 1D (23 east)
Cyberink crashes, ffdshow cant show the video.... and guess what? CoreAVC can decode this stream just fine.

CoreAVC Professional will cost you 15 dollar or 15 euro i believe, if you can pay with dollars thats the best option :P



@pookguy88
CoreAVC 1.5 works on Vista 32bit Ultimate.



@oddball
I don't think the motion vector issue will be fixed.
CoreAVC has proven to uphold the specs in almost all cases were "bugs" were reported.
Some were indeed typ0 bugs, but the motion vector and "color issues" all turned out to be streams not upholding specs.
ffdshow/cyberlink/mainconcept all use the color output it seems, while CoreAVC detects the color input and even lets you decide to change it.
(BBC-HD has PC level colors.... but when you set it to TV level, the same video (kill bill 2) will look the same on SKY HD)

[foxyshadis]

Still, I'd argue that broken streams should have a form of error resilience, the same thing lavc has. Regardless of whether you consider too-long vectors broken or not - is it really that vital to enforce it? - slightly broken captures or spontaneous corruption are rare but normal, especially if you deal with a lot of files for a lot of people. Then again, I've seen professional DVDs with mastering errors that lavc mostly eliminates. I know cabac makes corruption more of of a pain, but don't you want to be known as the best-looking player, and not the fastest-with-occasional-dropouts? Look how many people get upset already at the minor decoding bugs 1.1 had.

[pookguy88]

@pookguy88
CoreAVC 1.5 works on Vista 32bit Ultimate.




how did you get it to work? it's not working for me

[ChronoCross]

That's like saying you should fix the highway rather than make the car work on the road. People can't change the streams they receive (nor can CoreCodec), but the customers can go and decide to use libvacodec instead of CoreAVC.

So that means you have to fix the car to drive a road made of spikes, or perhaps it should be invulnerable to flame. Where do you draw the line?

To be honest someone is always going to find a way to screw up their stream. So rather than adjusting the codec each time one of these happens it should stick to the pre-defined rules.

It's the failure to follow standards that has caused problems in website coding and now when you make a website you have to code it for 7 different browsers and use all kinds of workarounds. If people would follow the standard it would save tons of time and produce quality output on all browsers.

[BetaBoy]

how did you get it to work? it's not working for me

Its a matter of rights... MS released a Vista update that had hardened perms even more then the initial Vista release and is why some ppl can run it while others cannot (stock vs. updated os).

This is what I had said was fixed.

[pookguy88]

Its a matter of rights... MS released a Vista update that had hardened perms even more then the initial Vista release and is why some ppl can run it while others cannot (stock vs. updated os).

This is what I had said was fixed.

where can i get this update?

[BetaBoy]

As I had said earlier as soon as we get confirmation that the x64 installer alterations are fixed.

[BetaBoy]

ok... thx for the great feedback all!! CoreAVC Professional 1.5 is now officially launched and is ready for purchase @ www.coreavc.com . On tap next is the release of Standard Edition and the 14 day Trial version.

[ACrowley]

ok... thx for the great feedback all!! CoreAVC Professional 1.5 is now officially launched and is ready for purchase @ www.coreavc.com . On tap next is the release of Standard Edition and the 14 day Trial version.

nice


Problem :
I downlaod the installer again now, and i cant use 1.5.0.0 anymore...The 1.5 installer from Tuesday was working.
Now the graph cant connect and i cant acces CoreAVCDecoder.ax anymore...
I there anything new in the "off" 1.5.0.0 installer compared with the 1.5 from last Days ?

Question:
i still cant reset the Serial or somewhat when i have to make a new Xp Install( import it to another OS ?
Not nice, evertime whem i make a fresh Xp install i cant use my legal Coreavc anymore

[BetaBoy]

ACrowley sure you can.... simply submit a ticket @ http://support.corecodec.com

[ACrowley]

ACrowley sure you can.... simply submit a ticket @ http://support.corecodec.com

Ah Ok..thanks ..when i build a new System i will transfer the License

But whats with my Problem ? I should create a Ticket for it too ?..Holy

As i say i redownloaded 1.5.0.0. from CoreAccount .
After installtion the Files are located on C:\....correctly, but the .ax Decoder is not "registered"
I cant use it anymore on my Xp 32bit, cant reregister it manually ,nothing. Whats up ?

1.5.0.0 installer/Decoder from Monday was working.

PS
Top be honest , i can understand when people prefer to use a pirated .ax without Problmes
I simply want to use my legal CoreAVC and i cant...it takes more effort as a few 100$ Program

[Ice =A=]

Well, I've just downloaded 1.5 and first thing I got was an error message. When trying to configure it I get an "error loading CoreAVCDecoder.ax - DLL could not be initialised", and the codec won't work either.
I've been buying and using older versions of CoreAVC with no problems as well as your great CorePlayer for PocketPCs and really liked those! But recently all I've heared of the "core team" were (futile) measures against piracy (which don't make CoreAVC better for paying customers, they actually make it worse!) and endless delays. Sorry, I'm just wondering...
It would be great if you could give a statement about the way the core team is heading, BetaBoy!

Edit:
GREAT! Now I can't even install an older version, your online activation won't let me!
What should I do? Use pirated software instead?!

[ACrowley]

Well, I've just downloaded 1.5 and first thing I got was an error message. When trying to configure it I get an "error loading CoreAVCDecoder.ax - DLL could not be initialised", and the codec won't work either.

Edit:
GREAT! Now I can't even install an older version, your online activation won't let me!
What should I do? Use pirated software instead?!

LOL..same Problem here

When i try to reg the .ax manually i get the same Error Message

1st Installer from Monday "was" working, the new not

[foxyshadis]

Someone accidentally linked against the debug libraries, maybe?

[Ice =A=]

@ACrowley:
Ups, I just saw that you allready had written about the same as me... Well, maybe that will get someones attention... :) :(

[ACrowley]

@ACrowley:
Ups, I just saw that you allready had written about the same as me... Well, maybe that will get someones attention... :) :(

Hopefully....

@Betaboy..hello ??!:)

[Inventive Software]

He'll be asleep (West Coast America). Try again in a few hours. ;)

[Jay Bee]

Well I didn't have the original source for the 5000kbps encode I told you about earlier, so I made a new one by bob-deinterlacing (with mvbob) some ATSC 1080i basketball footage.



Why don't you just encode it as interlaced and let the GPU deal with deinterlacing on playback? I think it should be better for your CPU (and encoding time).

[BetaBoy]

We are looking into the issue. Thx for the reports.

[BetaBoy]

OK... thx to a few of our users it looks like a DLL dependancy issue for some XP users... this is why it works for some and not others. We are working on a fix.

[Ice =A=]

@BetaBoy: Sorry to tell you that I'm using Windows XP, not Vista...

[BetaBoy]

Good catch... I mis-spoke... it was XP. Post edited.

[Viper Zx]

Well, I've just downloaded 1.5 and first thing I got was an error message. When trying to configure it I get an "error loading CoreAVCDecoder.ax - DLL could not be initialised", and the codec won't work either.
I've been buying and using older versions of CoreAVC with no problems as well as your great CorePlayer for PocketPCs and really liked those! But recently all I've heared of the "core team" were (futile) measures against piracy (which don't make CoreAVC better for paying customers, they actually make it worse!) and endless delays. Sorry, I'm just wondering...
It would be great if you could give a statement about the way the core team is heading, BetaBoy!

Edit:
GREAT! Now I can't even install an older version, your online activation won't let me!
What should I do? Use pirated software instead?!



Same here!

Vista (x86)


Bye
Viper Zx

[deets]

let us know when as im holding off until its done for sure :)

[Revgen]

Why don't you just encode it as interlaced and let the GPU deal with deinterlacing on playback? I think it should be better for your CPU (and encoding time).

1) First of all. Interlacing should be illegal. ;)

2) I don't have a GPU that decodes AVC.

3) I was testing the decoder to see how it can go. If a software decoder can decode 1080p video at 60fps at a good bitrate, then it'll be great since nobody would need any fancy hardware.

[Jay Bee]

1) First of all. Interlacing should be illegal. ;)

2) I don't have a GPU that decodes AVC.

3) I was testing the decoder to see how it can go. If a software decoder can decode 1080p video at 60fps at a good bitrate, then it'll be great since nobody would need any fancy hardware.

1) Would be nice, yeah. But if the source is already interlaced it's too late.

2) You don't need one. Just set CoreAVC to directshow deinterlacing and it should work with anything from GeForce 6600 onwards. Even if your card is older you should get some kind of deinterlacing, although perhaps only at 30 fps.

3) Is it to be expected that any content will ever be made available in 1080p60?

[BetaBoy]

PPl that are having the issue with running the AX and can help us test... pls email me betaboy@corecodec.com so we can have you run past a few test installs. Thx!!