CoreCodec/H.264 Codec "CoreAVC"

[BetaBoy]

I feel like.... I see that your new here to Doom9, welcome. While we are grateful for your opinion... We ask that you post 'facts'. To help with this pls post in a manner to better help us help you... To that, things like hardware specifics, software configuration, splitter info, renderer info, and sample content always helps.

Thank you.

[mkanet]

On my setup (Nvidia + Intel Quadcore CPU), DXVA seems to generally have slightly better performance than CUDA. Such as AVC/1080i from DishNetwork. However, I see weird video quality issues with CoreAVC 2.5.x using DXVA that I didnt have in CoreAVC 2.0; at least under SageTV Media Center 7 with EVR enabled. In fact, I used to use only DXVA under CoreAVC 2.0 as my primary AVC video decoder under SageTV and all other directshow players without significant issues. Ever since I upgraded to CoreAVC 2.5.1, I've been forced to use CUDA; or, I have video issues such as the below with DXVA.

I might have to either revert back to CoreAVC 2.0.

EDIT: However, CoreAVC 2.5.1 (with CUDA) and LAV splitter still does a better job than the latest MPC-HC using it's own internal splitter and respective AVC DXVA decoder on my PC for certain material.

Bottom line, I dont know if CoreAVC 2.5.1 using Cuda is better or CoreAVC 2.0 with DXVA. I dont mind the extra performance hit in CUDA if there's something it can do better than DXVA (if CoreAVC DXVA is working correctly).

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/Screenshot-14642.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/Screenshot-14652.jpg

I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what were the "intended" benefits from CUDA over DXVA in CoreAVC 2.5.1? I dont seen anything that CUDA does better; at least it's not obvious to me.

[Cyber-Mav]

coreavc 2.0 doesnt even support dxva , so when you say "CoreAVC 2.5.1 using Cuda is better or CoreAVC 2.0 with DXVA" you come across as being clueless. coreavc 2.5.1 does both cuda and dxva support. coreavc 2.0 is cuda only for gpu acceleration.

[mkanet]

Ok, I dont remember what Coreavc 2.0's default nvidia hardware acceleration was called. I thought it used DXVA. So whatever method CoreAVC 2.0 used for nvidia hardware acceleration is what I was referring to. It probably wouldn't be wise to completely dismiss the symptoms I mentioned based on that; especially if they appear to be consistent with what others have reported.

Just to be clear, whatever method was used under 2.0 for nvidia hardware acceleration (without "Prefer CUDA acceleration" being selected), it seemed to work better than 2.5.1's "DXVA" on my PC. It also appeared to be less hardware intensive than 2.5.1 "Cuda" support, IIRC.

coreavc 2.0 doesnt even support dxva , so when you say "CoreAVC 2.5.1 using Cuda is better or CoreAVC 2.0 with DXVA" you come across as being clueless. coreavc 2.5.1 does both cuda and dxva support. coreavc 2.0 is cuda only for gpu acceleration.

[namaiki]

Just to be clear, whatever method was used under 2.0 for nvidia hardware acceleration (without "Prefer CUDA acceleration" being selected), it seemed to work better than 2.5.1's "DXVA" on my PC. It also appeared to be less hardware intensive than 2.5.1 "Cuda" support, IIRC.

That would be decoding on the CPU.

[CruNcher]

On my setup (Nvidia + Intel Quadcore CPU), DXVA seems to generally have slightly better performance than CUDA. Such as AVC/1080i from DishNetwork. However, I see weird video quality issues with CoreAVC 2.5.x using DXVA that I didnt have in CoreAVC 2.0; at least under SageTV Media Center 7 with EVR enabled. In fact, I used to use only DXVA under CoreAVC 2.0 as my primary AVC video decoder under SageTV and all other directshow players without significant issues. Ever since I upgraded to CoreAVC 2.5.1, I've been forced to use CUDA; or, I have video issues such as the below with DXVA.

I might have to either revert back to CoreAVC 2.0.

EDIT: However, CoreAVC 2.5.1 (with CUDA) and LAV splitter still does a better job than the latest MPC-HC using it's own internal splitter and respective AVC DXVA decoder on my PC for certain material.

Bottom line, I dont know if CoreAVC 2.5.1 using Cuda is better or CoreAVC 2.0 with DXVA. I dont mind the extra performance hit in CUDA if there's something it can do better than DXVA (if CoreAVC DXVA is working correctly).

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/Screenshot-14642.jpg

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/Screenshot-14652.jpg

I hope this isn't a dumb question, but what were the "intended" benefits from CUDA over DXVA in CoreAVC 2.5.1? I dont seen anything that CUDA does better; at least it's not obvious to me.

DXVA is a tad faster (being the native Microsoft API) though Nvcuvid is more error prone so it makes sense to switch based on different stream scenarios between them dynamically that's what's coming up in CoreAVC :) also i guess CoreCodec is already working on implementing OVD additionally to Nvcuvid for ATI/AMD UVD users. The overhead of Nvcuvid seems to become more visible also the Higher you push it to it's borders (depending also on the Hardware) see my Benchmark in the DXVA thread comparing DXVA vs Nvcuvid on rather old G92 VP2 XP without memcopy Hardware improvements http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1490026&postcount=67.

[mkanet]

Update: It looks like Cyber-Mav was correct. I was clueless. :) It looks like the sluggishness I was seeing was NOT caused by CoreAVC 2.5.1 CUDA mode. The sluggishness was caused by something completely different. I had installed Reclock at the same time I upgraded to CoreAVC 2.5.1. As soon as I uninstalled Reclock, videos play back without any sluggishness. Unfortunately, I still see the same display issue with DXVA under sageTV EVR mode. I'm fine with using CoreAVC 2.5.1 CUDA now.

I know this may be like comparing apples and oranges, but are there any video quality differences between CoreAVC 2.0 (without cuda) and CoreAVC 2.5.1 cuda mode? I haven't looked at CoreAVC 2.5.1 Cuda mode closely enough to see picture quality improvements.

Thanks again,
MKANET
DXVA is a tad faster (being the native Microsoft API) though Nvcuvid is more error prone so it makes sense to switch based on different stream scenarios between them dynamically that's what's coming up in CoreAVC :) also i guess CoreCodec is already working on implementing OVD additionally to Nvcuvid for ATI/AMD UVD users. The overhead of Nvcuvid seems to become more visible also the Higher you push it to it's borders (depending also on the Hardware) see my Benchmark in the DXVA thread comparing DXVA vs Nvcuvid on rather old G92 VP2 XP without memcopy Hardware improvements http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1490026&postcount=67.

[Tom Keller]

I know this may be like comparing apples and oranges, but are there any video quality differences between CoreAVC 2.0 (without cuda) and CoreAVC 2.5.1 cuda mode? I haven't looked at CoreAVC 2.5.1 Cuda mode closely enough to see picture quality improvements.
Afaik ALL available H.264 decoders (as long as they are following the H.264 specs) should deliver exactly the same output, since the DCT coefficients (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrete_cosine_transform) for H.264 are standardized. It doesn't matter if you're using CUDA, DXVA or pure software decoding - "exactly the same" in this case means: bit-exact!

So: apart from possible bug-related distortions there shouldn't be any video quality differences between CoreAVC 2.0 and CoreAVC 2.5.1, since CoreAVC follows the H.264 specifications.

[molitar]

Hi Betaboy, I have done posts in the past not alot but around 15.. but now when I login to the forum I can not post or reply to anything. I have tried the support site and submitted a trouble ticket.. I been ignored :( I even done a web feedback form and again been ignored.. CoreAVC 2.5.1 has been artifacting in mpc-home with CCCP pack on Windows 7 32 bit but can not submit this problem on the actual forums since my account is broken. Can you please fix my forum access for corecodec and find out why my trouble ticket has been ignored all this time? Thanks.

[BetaBoy]

We are looking into the forum issue, sorry for any issues there... and the ticket was not being ignored just waiting to hear back on what the issue is with the password reset.

[molitar]

We are looking into the forum issue, sorry for any issues there... and the ticket was not being ignored just waiting to hear back on what the issue is with the password reset.

Ok Thanks Betaboy. Would of been nice to had that mentioned in the ticket but good to know it's being worked on :) I finally moved to Windows 7 and I am seeing artifacts for short periods of time using DXVA currently.

[techouse]

I am noticing some weird artefacts with CoreAVC 2.5.1 DXVA enabled (ATi Radeon HD 5750, Catalyst 11.3) when watching cartoons (i.e. SouthPark). Example:
http://anony.ws/dt-HIWB.png (http://anony.ws/di-HIWB.png)

With DXVA acceleration disabled these artefacts do not occur.

However there are no artefacts when watching standard movies with DXVA enabled.

[molitar]

Betaboy, Their is a seek bug in 2.5.1 when using DXVA also.. when forwarding the playback will slow way down as if I had used playback rate. I even turned off playback rate by keyboard in mpc-home to make sure I wasn't accidently triggering it. I am not.. I try to do 5 second or 20 second jumps in mpc-home using DXVA and playback will stop functioning correctly and be like I hit slow motion or pause. Only method to fix when this happens is to usually stop.. manually move slider to the time it happened and start the show again.

[Virtual_ManPL]

@ molitar - try it with different splitter like internal MPC-HC, LAV Splitter or Haali
because it can be splitter issue

[Roobaj]

I get this error whenever I switch video window from primary monitor to secondary (1080p HDTV):

http://i.imgur.com/apbFF.jpg

Setup:

CoreAVC 2.5.1 + latest CCCP with MPC-HC internal subs ON + DXVA ON (red icon).

ATI AMD Radeon HD 4850 with latest Drivers to date version 11.3.

Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

NOTE: This only happens with DXVA enabled.

[BetaBoy]

A heads up... We were gonna jump to v2.6 and add some new DXVA features, but we have opted to call it v2.5.5 and focus the release more on DXVA bug fixes and other CORE fixes including the outstanding one for opengop.

[hajj_3]

so v2.5.5 will just be a bugfix release? Or will it add some DXVA features too? Any eta on it?

thanks.

[CruNcher]

Its pretty clear what Dan wrote they skipped the features to bring out the fixes faster to market so they dropped down to 2.5.5 and not a major version as they planed 2.6 with new features but that will be released later fixes have priority (especially DXVA ones as this is practically since release not usable for many streams, and needs to be fixed urgently as more and more reports are arriving @ CoreCodec and as long as they leave it unfixed as more customer commercial as well as private they risk to lose).

[hajj_3]

yeah i mis-read it. Bug fixes sound good to me, no rush on adding new features.

[ChronoCross]

So many bugs that they have to push out releases outside of their normal bi-century release schedule? crazy.

[CruNcher]

If the Beta testers would have done their job properly i guess it could have been avoided, though yeah somehow it is awful to think about that someone who implements this let all the responsibility for testing @ it's beta testers ;)

[ChronoCross]

If the Beta testers would have done their job properly i guess it could have been avoided, though yeah somehow it is awful to think about that someone who implements this let all the responsibility for testing @ it's beta testers ;)

Ultimately the programmers are primarily responsible for buggy applications. Their corporate QC is next, followed lastly by beta testers. For a company that took so long to make this release it seems a bit odd that it still had so many bugs.

[Gleb Egorych]

Are there in 2.6 any fixes related to interlaced content?

[BetaBoy]

We have compiled v2.5.5 RC. We are gonna take the weekend to do QA. The changelog as it stands now:

- FIX: Clean reference lists when seeking to a SEI recovery point
- FIX: matrix ordering for buggy ATI DXVA implementation
- FIX: non-transposed matrices for NVIDIA DXVA mode
- FIX: validate GPU type, driver version and stream parameters before using DXVA

[Roobaj]

@BetaBoy

Just wondering but does 2.5.5 fixes my problem?

[CiNcH]

- FIX: Clean reference lists when seeking to a SEI recovery point
- FIX: matrix ordering for buggy ATI DXVA implementation
- FIX: non-transposed matrices for NVIDIA DXVA mode
- FIX: validate GPU type, driver version and stream parameters before using DXVA
Aha. Sounds like a lot bla bla to me. I am out of here guys...

[molitar]

Excellent glad to hear.. Because currently I had to disable Corecodec completely to even watch videos it got so bad on many of them. So using ffdshow in CCCP pack for now until the fix is released. BTW what about the forums? I really would like to be able to post there again.

[ChronoCross]

Excellent glad to hear.. Because currently I had to disable Corecodec completely to even watch videos it got so bad on many of them. So using ffdshow in CCCP pack for now until the fix is released. BTW what about the forums? I really would like to be able to post there again.

Why would you want to post on their forums? They sensor and/or ban people who say things they don't like.

[BetaBoy]

Chrono.... That's the 5th time in the past few pages for your FUD and Off topic interjections. Moderators notified.

[madshi]

Chrono.... That's the 5th time in the past few pages for your FUD and Off topic interjections.
Agreed, he's clearly trolling, a thread cleanup and a ban from this thread would be appropriate.

[Cyber-Mav]

these bugs are to be expected, at the end of the day what more can you expect from someone called "BetaBoy". wonder what would happen with software from "AlphaBoy"

[BetaBoy]

:-)

We are prepping the site and email for v2.5.5 now. Everyone should see emails on the update availability later tonight.

[BetaBoy]

CoreAVC 2.5.5 released. Current customers can login to our customer portal to download the latest release: http://customers.corecodec.com

Here is the changelog:
CoreAVC H.264 Video Codec - Version 2.5.5.0 (20110426)
- FIX: Clean reference lists when seeking to a SEI recovery point
- FIX: matrix ordering for buggy ATI DXVA implementation
- FIX: non-transposed matrices for NVIDIA DXVA mode
- FIX: validate GPU type, driver version and stream parameters before using DXVA


Emails are going out now announcing the release.

[Mixer73]

CoreAVC 2.5.5 released. Current customers can login to our customer portal to download the latest release: http://customers.corecodec.com


Thanks BB, clearly people here like to piss and moan, as someone who's worked in software companies for a long time, no testing can ever do what releasing something into the field can, and I applaud the fast fixes.

[robpdotcom]

2.5.5 fixed the issue I was having with DXVA - thanks for the quick work.

[Barlow]

All files I threw at it so far worked fine.
Also ordered chapters work fine, where other decoders fail (MPC video decoder and MS DTV decoder).
I'll use CoreAVC as my main decoder from now on :)

[ChronoCross]

Chrono.... That's the 5th time in the past few pages for your FUD and Off topic interjections. Moderators notified.

It's not FUD, I've watched you do it and there was even a complaint about it in this very thread from another user.

I'm sorry that I don't agree with you on how you handle your business but I have every right as a customer who purchased your product to make commentary and provide potential customers insight into your product. If you don't like it then close your business down.

The fact that it took over 1 year for you to make an additional release, combined with the fact that it has so many bugs is something that people should be aware of before investing any cash into it.

[eddman]

I'm sorry that I don't agree with you on how you handle your business but I have every right as a customer who purchased your product to make commentary and provide potential customers insight into your product. If you don't like it then close your business down.

You're not providing "insight". You're just bashing the product and corecodec left and right with no reason.

The fact that it took over 1 year for you to make an additional release, combined with the fact that it has so many bugs is something that people should be aware of before investing any cash into it.

If they were deliberately delaying 2.5.0 then tell me why they released 2.5.1 and 2.5.5 so fast. They even decided to postpone 2.6.0 and instead go with the bug-fixing 2.5.5 just to be able to release it sooner.
Bugs in major updates are to be expected and besides a DXVA decoder is more complicated than a software one and there are so many non-standard videos and different GPUs that it won't be possible to test it for all possible cases.

[Fadeout]

All files I threw at it so far worked fine.
Also ordered chapters work fine, where other decoders fail (MPC video decoder and MS DTV decoder).
I'll use CoreAVC as my main decoder from now on :)

Same here. It seems doing everything to perfection. DXVA also works on SD videos.

[ChronoCross]

You're not providing "insight". You're just bashing the product and corecodec left and right with no reason.

umm.....please re-read the last 9 pages of bugs. My insight is directly related to the historical behavior of the company. Which are perfectly valid points.


If they were deliberately delaying 2.5.0 then tell me why they released 2.5.1 and 2.5.5 so fast. They even decided to postpone 2.6.0 and instead go with the bug-fixing 2.5.5 just to be able to release it sooner.

That would be because the product was so epicly broken that they couldn't justify putting the fixes off until 2.6.0. Which has been the typical standard for their bug fixing in previous editions aka "it only occurs with certain circumstances so we will put off the fix for the next release" bugfix schedule.

[BetaBoy]

It's not FUD...
Oh look, it's more of the same... FUD and bashing with nothing of relevance to interject into the thread.

Will a moderator pls...

[hajj_3]

That would be because the product was so epicly broken that they couldn't justify putting the fixes off until 2.6.0. Which has been the typical standard for their bug fixing in previous editions aka "it only occurs with certain circumstances so we will put off the fix for the next release" bugfix schedule.

To be fair it appears that all known bugs have now been fixed with v2.5.5 which is released around 3 weeks after v2.5.0 was released, pretty quick at fixing the bugs if you ask me! I do agree with you about the bugs in regards to v2.5.1, there's no way the WMP bug should have been present in the final release but thats in the past now.

[BetaBoy]

The fact that it...

Facts are this.... good code done 'right' is not easy even though we have some of the brightest engineers here at CC, and with help (icydnk) from some of the lead engineers from x264, VLC, FFmpeg, etc., we all want those HIGH standards. But bugs are just that bugs, even with a large amount of testing they pop up and its something we will address as soon as we can in a followup release. We hope that with 2.5.x you now see we are committed to just that.

Like many engineers/companies we try to strive for those high standards and always will. Nothing has changed from us creating and working on Matroska, EBML, Core-C, CoreMAKE, CorePlayer, CoreAAC, CoreMVC, CoreAVC or any of our other 20+ products/technologies.

We want to adapt our products to come out or be updated as fast as the technology/standards change. Its always been a goal of ours, but its not always achievable given the tasks required.

We continue to thank those for their support by buying our products, or helping the community with amazing feedback.

Without you we are nothing.

[dead_screem]

Facts are this.... good code done 'right' is not easy even though we have some of the brightest engineers here at CC, and with help (icydnk) from some of the lead engineers from x264, VLC, FFmpeg, etc., we all want those HIGH standards. But bugs are just that bugs, even with a large amount of testing they pop up and its something we will address as soon as we can in a followup release. We hope that with 2.5.x you now see we are committed to just that.

Like many engineers/companies we try to strive for those high standards and always will. Nothing has changed from us creating and working on Matroska, EBML, Core-C, CoreMAKE, CorePlayer, CoreAAC, CoreMVC, CoreAVC or any of our other 20+ products/technologies.

We want to adapt our products to come out or be updated as fast as the technology/standards change. Its always been a goal of ours, but its not always achievable given the tasks required.

We continue to thank those for their support by buying our products, or helping the community with amazing feedback.

Without you we are nothing.
You sure? Because CoreAAC has a huge channel order/mapping bug I mentioned on the core codec forums awhile ago.
http://forums.corecodec.com/threads/2386-Incorrect-channel-order-in-5.1
And no comment from anyone on a possible fix... It's nice to see timely quick bugfix only releases for CoreAVC (this is where you guys have been lacking in the past) It'd be nice to get an update for CoreAAC...
And with CoreAAC as it is its completelty useless for anything but 2 channel stereo, even Mono is wrong. CoreAAC treats it as Stereo so sound is only in one speaker instead of properly as Mono/Center channel output.

and there is still no CoreAAC Support ticket section (there is also no General section, wasn't there one before?)

[BetaBoy]

and there is still no CoreAAC Support ticket section (there is also no General section, wasn't there one before?)

I pinged the guys on it, I also see the CoreAAC support is active in the customer portal, but let me why you cannot see it.

[dead_screem]

I pinged the guys on it,What does this mean exactly, will you be posting any info that you get when you hear from the devs? here or in the thread that is on the corecodec coreaac thread I linked?


CoreAAC support is active in the customer portal, but let me why you cannot see it.
Its there in the knowledge base/faq page, but on "new tickets" page only CoreAVC is visible. no CoreAAC and no General (didn't there use to be a general section for site related or other misc support?)

[BetaBoy]

I pinged them on the bug report. Yes there was a full FAQ for it.... looks like a glitch in the portal. We are looking into it, thx for the report.

[Roobaj]

I get this error whenever I switch video window from primary monitor to secondary (1080p HDTV):

http://i.imgur.com/apbFF.jpg

Setup:

CoreAVC 2.5.1 + latest CCCP with MPC-HC internal subs ON + DXVA ON (red icon).

ATI AMD Radeon HD 4850 with latest Drivers to date version 11.3.

Windows 7 SP1 64bit.

NOTE: This only happens with DXVA enabled.

Problem still present with 2.5.5 :(

Can someone please help? Or is this a bug with AMD Catalyst v11.3?

[eddman]

Problem still present with 2.5.5 :(

Can someone please help? Or is this a bug with AMD Catalyst v11.3?

Installing these might help.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=BA9257CA-337F-4B40-8C14-157CFDFFEE4E&displaylang=en

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=c68ccbb6-75ef-4c9d-a326-879eab4fcdf8

[Roobaj]

Installing these might help.

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=BA9257CA-337F-4B40-8C14-157CFDFFEE4E&displaylang=en

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?FamilyID=c68ccbb6-75ef-4c9d-a326-879eab4fcdf8


http://i.imgur.com/5QhLy.jpg

Pretty sure these are the same. I have Windows Update on too so my system should be up to date.