CoreCodec/H.264 Codec "CoreAVC"

[tomos]

1920x1080i @25fps (50 fields per second) looks crappy...
isnt that what c more HD in sweden (or thereabouts) broadcast as?

theirs are the best quality HD vids i've seen apart from those download clips from microsoft etc.

[ChronoReverse]

Looks like I'll probably get the Pro version depending how it's priced.

I don't know if this has been asked already, but if I purchase one decoder, does it also counts for other platforms as well? For example, if I had a Pro license for x86 Windows, would I be able to transfer it to PocketPC?

[Sharktooth]

isnt that what c more HD in sweden (or thereabouts) broadcast as?

theirs are the best quality HD vids i've seen apart from those download clips from microsoft etc.
25fps makes motion... uhm... jerky...

[BetaBoy]

ChronoReverse.... desktop to desktop only, IE; Windows/Linux. But our CorePlayer for Linux will have this included.... and yes there is overlap but this is why we provide the filter for other platforms that support the DS framework (outside of TCPMP).

[SeeMoreDigital]

1920x1080i @25fps (50 fields per second) looks crappy...Both MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 at 1920x1080 @ 50 fields per second looks fine to me when played in hardware (Zensonic Z500) and viewed on a high-def capable display running at 50Hz :)

When you are feeling a little better, hop on a plane to the UK and come see...


Cheers mate

[tomos]

25fps makes motion... uhm... jerky...

yeah, 25 as opposed to what, 24 for film?

the only jerkyness is with (IMO) pal DVDs (that i wont buy) made from NTSC sources (badly made). (plus the fact that the speedup drives me nuts sometimes) :)

a friend of mine showed me return of the king in 1080i@50 from c more HD, and it was even better than the Bev gladiator broadcast

as long as its done properly, 50 or 60 hz is fine IMO. (would prefer the UK to be 60 hz tho since most stuff i watch is from the US)

[SeeMoreDigital]

plus the fact that the speedup drives me nuts sometimes) :) Indeed... it's quite intriguing as to the number of people who dislike the "24fps-to-25fps" effect!

May I ask, which annoys you the most. The speeded up audio, or the speeded up video?


Cheers

[Sharktooth]

ever tried to watch a 25fps (or 24...) movie on a 100hz TV or PC Monitor?

[tomos]

ever tried to watch a 25fps (or 24...) movie on a 100hz TV or PC Monitor?

yep :D (monitor)

no worries here. now on a LCD projector and a 2405 dell tho

[SeeMoreDigital]

ever tried to watch a 25fps (or 24...) movie on a 100hz TV or PC Monitor?Yes... it looks pants :D

I totally loath and hate 100Hz processing on (PAL/SECAM) TV's... utterly useless!

[tomos]

Indeed... it's quite intriguing as to the number of people who dislike the "24fps-to-25fps" effect!

May I ask, which annoys you the most. The speeded up audio, or the speeded up video?


Cheers

audio. the sound is crazy. the pitch i mean. going from 24 to 25 isnt too bad, but going back then to a lower pitch is just too weird!

women sound like men in drag

[nm]

Maybe there is something wrong with the pitch correction method you used.

[SeeMoreDigital]

audio. the sound is crazy. the pitch i mean. going from 24 to 25 isnt too bad, but going back then to a lower pitch is just too weird!This seems to be most peoples gripe!

[tomos]

Maybe there is something wrong with the pitch correction method you used.

?? this would be what was aired in the US v UK

nothing to do with me (apart from watching of course)

[GhengisKhan]

Two things:

First - I experience the weird pitch thing too. Mostly when my CPU can't process the video fast enough...

Second - I still don't have my question answered. I'll try to make it more clear for those of you who think you're "all that", and don't need to read a whole post.

How do I find out what decoder of the types that Betaboy mentioned (standard, professional, enterprise) will decode Nero Max. Def. AVC encoded video? In other words what features does a Max. Def. AVC encoded Nero video contain?

Please notice... If you decode something you need an encoder - right? So, if I'm using encoding using Nero Max. Def. AVC, would I need the standard, professional or enterprise decoder?

Or, does the decoder come with an encoder - bundled into a codec?

GhengisKhan :cool:

[ChronoCross]

Nero's current encoder is main profile. The ateme(supposed future nero version) is main and high profile with interlacing support. The basic version of coreAVC decoder will play everything except interlaced content and different colorspaces(not supported by any encoder atm). The pro version will play everything cept colorspaces and it also includes multi-threading and GPU speedups. The enterprise plays all content including different colorspace.

I think the typical joe schmoe will only need the basic version. The professional if they reallly absolutely must watch someone who encoded something interlaced (stupid IMHO but oh well I guess).

[nm]

?? this would be what was aired in the US v UK

nothing to do with me (apart from watching of course)
Then you should really complain to the broadcaster. No problems here in Finland (or at least I haven't noticed although I've often watched both 24fps and broadcasted PAL versions).

[tomos]

Then you should really complain to the broadcaster. No problems here in Finland (or at least I haven't noticed although I've often watched both 24fps and broadcasted PAL versions).


what can they do? anything going from 24 to 25 fps is going to be sped up. unless they use pitch correction then it would sound different to the US version.

[nm]

what can they do? anything going from 24 to 25 fps is going to be sped up. unless they use pitch correction then it would sound different to the US version.
They can and should use proper pitch correction. Speeding up audio is different to the US version, but it can't really be noticed if the pitch has been corrected without playing 24fps version at the same time. I was just saying that there should be no "drag queen effects" if the PAL broadcast is done correctly.

[tomos]

they dont use pitch correction the last time i watched a UK airing of an US show. even if they did use pitch correction, you could end up with other faults like in the UK release of the LOTR movies!

its a non issue for me now since i watch US versions of the show entirely now.

this is kinda dragging this thread off topic, so lets end it on that :)

[Episodio1]

There are 3 ways to convert from 24 to PAL. One of them is speeding up, and another is creating an interlaced video playing with the fields. http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=106609

[3ngel]

From 24 to 25 the only professional (and correct, and best quality looking) way is to speed up a little (or better to change the FPS parameter, and morph-speed-streching the audio).
The fields play a game only in a 24->29,97(NTSC) environment (telecine).

[SeeMoreDigital]

By contrast...

How about all the interlaced stuff that's made/shot in Europe (at 25fps/50i) and is converted to NTSC?


Cheers

[tomos]

dont recall any tbh

[3ngel]

@SeeMoreDigital
I think it's quite the inverse. From 25 -> 24 -> 29.97 (Telecine) for a clear transfer.
Other methods, involve combed frames.

[GhengisKhan]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'd like to know whether I would be able to (in the future) watch Blu-ray and HD DVD's using the AVC decoder (DS and TCPMP component) from CoreCodec... if I'm going to pay money for it, I'd like to be able to watch BD or HD DVD disc with menus and everything. Is it just me?

Betaboy, what are you planning? Will you liscense out the decoder to be used/modifiable by other big DVD software player developers (such as Intervideo, Nero, Cyberhome, etc.).

GhengisKhan


P.S. Thanks for clearing the decoder thing up ChronoCross :) .

[lexor]

Maybe this is a stupid question, but I'd like to know whether I would be able to (in the future) watch Blu-ray and HD DVD's using the AVC decoder (DS and TCPMP component) from CoreCodec... if I'm going to pay money for it, I'd like to be able to watch BD or HD DVD disc with menus and everything. Is it just me?

Betaboy, what are you planning? Will you liscense out the decoder to be used/modifiable by other big DVD software player developers (such as Intervideo, Nero, Cyberhome, etc.).

GhengisKhan


P.S. Thanks for clearing the decoder thing up ChronoCross :) .
I hightly doubt the big boys are gonna use this decoder, no matter how good it is, they are just snobby this way. And to properly support BD and HD-DVD they would have to incorportate a whole range of things into the TCPMP (remember there is hardware component to their encryption/DRM as well) so I neither believe they will, nor do I think they should. They have kick ass decoder, that's what they should push, maybe other (not so big) desktop DVD players would use them.

[TEB]

I read someone further up the thread wrote that CMore was sending in 1080i/50, but in mpeg2...no mpeg4 there yet..

Feb 22 00:04:37: ts: info: using program 3306 with PMT PID 256
Feb 22 00:04:37: ts: info: using PCR PID 512
Feb 22 00:04:37: ts: info: using video PID 512
Feb 22 00:04:37: ts: info: initial PCR: 74476.089s
Feb 22 00:04:37: pes: info: video stream number: 0
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: frame size: 1920x1080
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: aspect ratio: 9:16
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: frame rate: 25.000
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: flags: intra_quant_matrix non_intra_quant_matrix sequence_extension
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: profile/level: main/high (0x44)
Feb 22 00:04:37: video: info: acquired video service

[tomos]

yep, me :D

god bless Cmore HD and hyperlove

[BetaBoy]

ok... so we are doing QA before we launch CoreAVC.com and have noticed yet another limitation of AVI that VSS has exploited with their encoder/decoder.

Here have a look: http://www.vsofts.com/h264/clips_d1.html try any of the clips... but I personally enjoy the Cheerleader one ;-)

Haali states that the Ateme filter plays it but it looks like crap. I tried the VSS filter and it works... but both CoreAVC and FFDshow have the artifacts. So... with that we ruled out that it is an interlaced issue or a 'buggy' feature of an encoder.

So looking at the files some more... it turns out that the actual problem is not caused by the buggy feature we suspected, but it was the packed b-frames in avi file format. What this means is that there are two frames stored in a packet and none in the next. Packed b-frames are a workaround (hack) for the limited capabilities of avi container.

/me prays for AVI to eventually just go away so we can look to the future and stop hacking the past.

[SeeMoreDigital]

Jeez.... Why would anybody want to put packed B-VOP's into an H.264 .AVI stream?

That's soooooo DivX :scared:


EDIT: Fortunately if you use YAMB to de-mux from .AVI (to an RAW .h264 stream) and re-mux to .MP4.... the problem is fixed ;)

[bond]

avi simply needs to die, cant be devs start to repeat the mess of asp

therefore i would simply prefer if coreavc ignores videosofts "buggy" files

[SeeMoreDigital]

avi simply needs to die, cant be devs start to repeat the mess of asp

therefore i would simply prefer if coreavc ignores videosofts "buggy" filesI could not agree more!

AVC should be confined to the MP4 container, with the .MKV container or even the .TS container coming in second....

By the way... are there any tools for muxing streams into .TS?


Cheers

[bond]

.ts sucks for local storage, the overhead is simply too big. its meant for transmissions

[SeeMoreDigital]

.ts sucks for local storage, the overhead is simply too big. its meant for transmissionsIndeed...

Although I would not mind experimenting with it for (future) use with stand-alone players... oh, and CoreCodec ;)

Plus, maybe the over-head could be vastly reduced. Seeing as though we don't really need all that error correction!?


Cheers

[Inventive Software]

@SeeMoreDigital: On the subject of going from PAL to NTSC, slow down 25 FPS to 24, tele-cine to 30 FPS, then slow down a little to 29.97 (or 30000/1001)

[fight2win]

where to download coreavc? will coreavc encoder be free? is the decoder free?

[tomos]

where to download coreavc? will coreavc encoder be free? is the decoder free?

from first page



NOTE: We have taken down the download link for the demo as we prepate to launch the www.coreavc.com homepage.

[BetaBoy]

as a status update... work on SMP and Interlaced continues... GPU support will be delayed for a 1.0x release as we are waiting on third party info atm. So with that... we are on track for our March 15th launch date.

[tomos]

great. SMP support will fix most of my probs with high bitrates on some encodes i've done (maxes out 1 core on my X2).

any guesstimates as to how long the delay for GPU support will be, or is that in the air as well at the moment? have a friend with a pc that cant handle x264 on high bitrates at all but he does have a 7800GT so hopefully that would fix it :)

thanks for the update :)

[BetaBoy]

great. SMP support will fix most of my probs with high bitrates on some encodes i've done (maxes out 1 core on my X2).

any guesstimates as to how long the delay for GPU support will be, or is that in the air as well at the moment? have a friend with a pc that cant handle x264 on high bitrates at all but he does have a 7800GT so hopefully that would fix it :)

thanks for the update :)
TBD atm..... Wish I could say more... but I can't. Just know we are still on for trying to getting 'them' in before the launch.

[tomos]

great. will buy in for the SMP support when its out. hopefully 'they' will sort out their side sharpish. i did hear they plan for something by end of march. but then again, there's bound to be the odd delay :(

good luck with the launch anyway :)

[MrWizard]

March 15th, eh? Well I suppose I can wait that long. Looking forward to it.

[killerhex]

its an encoder/decoder release right

[ChronoCross]

its an encoder/decoder release right

decoder only.

[crypto]

Great News. Finally we can use CoreAVC for 1080i HDTV broadcasts.

[BetaBoy]

We just put up a holder page at www.coreavc.com

[fight2win]

URL Added to Firefox Bookmarks

[Scoty]

what is the latest CoreAVC and who can download ?

[SeeMoreDigital]

what is the latest CoreAVC and who can download ?This question has been asked and answered many times before.... Try reading from the beginning of this thread :eek: