LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[SamuriHL]

:confused: I'm not sure I understand your question. LAV Video is good because it's a software decoder based upon ffmpeg. How would it work with madVR's internal decoders, however? It would take the place of any other decoder. That's where I'm confused.

[nevcairiel]

What a video decoder is good for? It converts the compressed video back into viewable images, of course.
My goal is quite simply to provide a high-quality video decoder for virtually all commonly used formats (and all rare formats i care to add support for)

I strongly believe in the principle of "Do one thing, and do it right". Therefor, i personally do not like the concept of integrating decoders into the renderer.
Otherwise, i could as well have integrated decoders into LAV Splitter instead of making them separate - it would certainly have made alot of things easier. ;)

[Thunderbolt8]

the question is when there is a decoder in lav splitter and madvr, which one to use?

if the madvr decoders are supposed to have an advantage in the future and you are aiming to have the best PQ (assuming that advantage would result in minimal better PQ or something alike) what would be the point of using the decoder in lv splitter? of course, those who dont use madvr for whatever reason could use it. but then, who wouldnt if he could? (unless a better renderer comes out which could provide better PQ) and you yourself probably also use madvr and maybe also would use the decoder if there was a quality related advantage

im basically wondering why you put all the work in something which might be not needed too much :p

[nevcairiel]

Because i can!

Also, i dont really see whar advantages there could be. You loose all the flexibility of a directshow software decoder, and gain what exactly?

Additionally, LAV Video already supports alot more formats then madVR, and if i were to wager a guess, more then madVR ever will.

[SamuriHL]

First off, it is NOT part of LAV Splitter. It is shipped in the same package as LAV Splitter and LAV Audio, but, they are not the same and can be used independent of each other. That's an important thing to understand. LAV Video is a separate decoder. One that can be used outside the renderer and independent of even LAV Splitter should you choose.

We can argue the merits of having the decoders built into the renderer all we want, but, there are some that believe having everything as a separate component is better in the long run. Not knowing what madshi's plans are for the future, I can't comment whether or not having the decoders built in will eventually make sense. Right now, it doesn't really. As a software engineer, I like to see things modularized.

IOW, it's all a matter of preference. If you see a benefit to having your decoder tied to one specific renderer, then, madVR is perfect for you. If you like flexibility, then perhaps LAV Video makes sense. The take away here is that WE HAVE AWESOME OPTIONS! :)

[Silent Rain]

DirectShow is outdated. How about support for Media Foundation?

About Media Foundation (MF): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Foundation

There are currently no plans to support Media Foundation.
This would only change if a future windows stops supporting DirectShow.

In this case, you will need to develop everything from scratch? :confused: :eek:

P.S. LAV Filters will ever support DVD/DVD menu?

[bjd]

As I understand a combined video decoder/renderer would be advantageous if the video decoding is done on the GPU (open cl) and the renderer directly accesses the frames from the GPU memory rather than everything being swapped to system RAM and then back to the GPU memory which is what happens now whether you use Lav Cuvid, Lav Video or MadVR's internal filters or any other video decoder for that matter with MadVR renderer.

From what i have read, the CUDA decoder always sends decoded frames to system ram, and there is no (easy?) way to queue them in GPU memory for MadVR to render.

As has been mentioned, it is nice to have a choice and everything Nev has released so far has worked a treat in my system and more importantly offered better quality.

[Blight]

nevcairiel:
Is there an interface that LAV Splitter exposes that lets you get the Matroska (and other formats?) chapters/bookmarks list?

Have a good vacation.

[madshi]

As I understand a combined video decoder/renderer would be advantageous if the video decoding is done on the GPU (open cl) and the renderer directly accesses the frames from the GPU memory rather than everything being swapped to system RAM and then back to the GPU memory
Correct.

[SamuriHL]

Then in that case, a built in decoder does in fact make sense.

[Messiah]

From what i have read, the CUDA decoder always sends decoded frames to system ram, and there is no (easy?) way to queue them in GPU memory for MadVR to render.

As has been mentioned, it is nice to have a choice and everything Nev has released so far has worked a treat in my system and more importantly offered better quality.

Correct.

How much speedup will you gain in this way?
I know it depends on RAM clock, but some rough estimation:)

And if I understand correctly, both nVidia and AMD have OpenCL drivers implemented, which means that decoder could use hardware acceleration on both platforms?

[ikarad]

How use lav video with mpc-hc?

I use lav audio but I can't use lav video (I have lav 0.31).

[SamuriHL]

Make sure you have a package that includes lav video. My installer that I posted a page or so back includes it.

[rack04]

Can someone post this file to another download location? That website is blocked on my computer.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-video4.zip

[ikarad]

Make sure you have a package that includes lav video. My installer that I posted a page or so back includes it.

Thanks.

How can I know if dts-hd decoding is available?

I Just drop the "dtsdecoderdll.dll" from the TMT3/5 Codecs directory into LAV Audio's directory, and enjoy like nevacariel said but I don't know if I have dts-hd activated or not..

[Underground78]

Can someone post this file to another download location? That website is blocked on my computer.

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-video4.zip

http://www.mediafire.com/?q2rii8477qf1epj

[mzso]

Thanks.

How can I know if dts-hd decoding is available?

I Just drop the "dtsdecoderdll.dll" from the TMT3/5 Codecs directory into LAV Audio's directory, and enjoy like nevacariel said but I don't know if I have dts-hd activated or not..
From the audio decoder settings.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1516704#post1516704

Edit:
I too came up with a question. Does DTS-HD Master Audio decoding work with the 64 bit version too?

[rack04]

http://www.mediafire.com/?q2rii8477qf1epj

Thanks. Unfortunately I can't download that one either. Must be something with the file name. Anyways, I'll download it somewhere else. Thanks again for trying.

[Underground78]

I've renamed the file 4.zip, you can try again the same link if you want.

[nevcairiel]

nevcairiel:
Is there an interface that LAV Splitter exposes that lets you get the Matroska (and other formats?) chapters/bookmarks list?

Have a good vacation.

IAMExtendedSeeking exports chapters.

@ the whole “access frames in gpu memory“:
Thats what DXVA does already. Frames never leave the GPU memory (unless you force them to). I'm still not convinced on the actual advantage over just supporting DXVA.

btw, on any modern GPU, which is also fast enough for full hardware deint, the speed difference is negligeble. At least on NVIDIA and Intel. AMD seems to have some serious performance issues with transfer from GPU to CPU.

[nevcairiel]

I too came up with a question. Does DTS-HD Master Audio decoding work with the 64 bit version too?

I never thought about it before, but I guess it doesn't, the arcsoft decoder is only 32bit.

[SamuriHL]

I never thought about it before, but I guess it doesn't, the arcsoft decoder is only 32bit.

Yea, it never crossed my mind, either, but, I'm quite sure it won't work with 64 bit. Maybe the first post should be updated to let people know if it hasn't already. (I just got home from a LONG day at the office so I haven't looked)

[nand chan]

How much longer until the Video decoder enters the main trunk and gets built into the first stable release, approximately?

I'm going to have to update this information in my Hi10P playback guide (http://haruhichan.com/wpblog/?p=205).

[Sebastiii]

Hi :)

I would like to know if there is different ffmpeg git source (i use git://git.1f0.de/ffmpeg.git and for 1f0.de libbluray too) but when i compile lavsplitter, all av*.dll are not the same size from ZIP.
I have try to compil on both PC and i have the same size but different from ZIP.
All compil was done.
My result is that LAV Video (my build didn't work well and crash Graphstudio).
Thanks :)

[nevcairiel]

How much longer until the Video decoder enters the main trunk and gets built into the first stable release, approximately?

I'm going to have to update this information in my Hi10P playback guide (http://haruhichan.com/wpblog/?p=205).
It is already in the main trunk. The next release will have it, but when exactly that will happen I cannot say. It will be at least 3 weeks.

[Mercury_22]

Hi :)

I would like to know if there is different ffmpeg git source (i use git://git.1f0.de/ffmpeg.git and for 1f0.de libbluray too) but when i compile lavsplitter, all av*.dll are not the same size from ZIP.
I have try to compil on both PC and i have the same size but different from ZIP.
All compil was done.
My result is that LAV Video (my build didn't work well and crash Graphstudio).
Thanks :)

Forget about the zip files they only create problems
OK I've build the LAV x64 too !!! (using MSYS_MinGW_GCC_461_x86-x64_Full.7z) but wtf ? I had to install TortoiseGit and get the code that way !
So it seems that I was right ?! = the zip files I've downloaded before are not the same as the code I get with TortoiseGit ?!!

[Sebastiii]

Thanks, Mercury_22,
I'm using x86 filter and for me the ZIP files didn't crash graphstudio, i'm a little lost lol

[ikarad]

From the audio decoder settings.
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1516704#post1516704



Thanks.

[bjd]

Reclock is not bad, but it's too much targetted at resampling

Agreed it is (the name puts alot of people off for starters), but you have so much control over it's configuration and it is fairly straight forward to get bit exact signals outputted (if you bother to do a little research) plus it works with XP Kernel streaming and Vista/7 WASAPI.

[madshi]

it is fairly straight forward to get bit exact signals outputted
Actually, no. The problem is that Reclock even in bit exact mode uses the system clock as the reference clock. And the system and audio clocks are not identical, resulting in a drift which may require Reclock to drop/repeat audio data in order to keep sync. A proper audio renderer (which doesn't resample) should use the audio hardware as the reference clock.

[bjd]

@madshi Thanks for explaining that.

I always "slave reference clock to audio" because i don't want any re-sampling (and i don't get any drop outs) and was under the impression this made Reclock use the sound card clock as the reference clock?

[madshi]

I was being told that was not the case, but then I don't have the Reclock source code, so I can't say for sure. See bottom of this post:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1399254#post1399254

[bjd]

@Madshi thanks again for more information

I think that quote is basically saying it is impossible to get 100% perfect audio/video because you have to use one clock or the other depending on personal preference for either perfect audio or perfect video and I think the "....is that it cannot use the soundcard's clock as the reference clock." is used in the context of getting perfect video/audio rather than just audio.

The Reclock readme states "You also have the ability to disable completely the system and audio clocks adaptation using the checkbox “slave reference clock to audio”. Doing so, ReClock will work much like the default DirectSound audio renderer, but rate adaptation will still function and reference clock will be slaved to audio clock with a smooth algorithm".

I get perfect audio when in bit exact mode but am bound to get a few dropped frames over a two hour movie.

Like you I am not 100% sure either but feel happier when I see "bit exact" for integer based sources.

[nand chan]

It is already in the main trunk. The next release will have it, but when exactly that will happen I cannot say. It will be at least 3 weeks.

Alright. I'll check around every once in a while to update the information in my guide as soon as it happens.

Will it be announced in Big Bold Red Letters™ on the front page?

[madshi]

The Reclock readme states "You also have the ability to disable completely the system and audio clocks adaptation using the checkbox “slave reference clock to audio”. Doing so, ReClock will work much like the default DirectSound audio renderer, but rate adaptation will still function and reference clock will be slaved to audio clock with a smooth algorithm".
That does sound quite promising.

[clsid]

Playback of realmedia works pretty good now with LAV Filters.

RealVideo inside Matroska does not yet play smooth though. Hopefully that can be fixed in LAV Video. Here is a sample:
http://www.mediafire.com/?xau5day9pj8rub1

[SamuriHL]

clsid, since Nev is on vacation for 2 weeks, are you opening issues on the tracker and attaching the files there? If not, you may want to do so because otherwise they'll likely get lost in the next couple weeks here in the forum.

[roytam1]

Playback of realmedia works pretty good now with LAV Filters.

RealVideo inside Matroska does not yet play smooth though. Hopefully that can be fixed in LAV Video. Here is a sample:
http://www.mediafire.com/?xau5day9pj8rub1

As fake but reasonable timestamps are inserted into P/B-frames for .rm(vb) files, they will have better looking now.

BTW FYI:
[2011-08-04 18:36:18] <av500> RT|Chatzilla: troll kshishkov into fixing RV timestamps 1st
[2011-08-04 18:39:07] <kshishkov> av500: I prefer to rewrite the whole RM demuxer from scratch instead

[Thunderbolt8]

The Reclock readme states "You also have the ability to disable completely the system and audio clocks adaptation using the checkbox “slave reference clock to audio”. Doing so, ReClock will work much like the default DirectSound audio renderer, but rate adaptation will still function and reference clock will be slaved to audio clock with a smooth algorithm".the box is called exactly "slave reference clock to audio (debugging only)"

so whats up with the debugging thing, does this function have any effect at all for normal playback?

[kasper93]

Will LAV Splitter support selecting different video streams? I don't know is that right name of this feature but look at screen: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16282309/MPC-HC/2in1.png switch between directory cut and extended cut. It can't be done with LAV splitter. I can provide sample if you want :)

[nevcairiel]

That feature is called editions, and is not currently supported, but hoppefully will be eventually in the future.

[RobertinoM]

but I have no idea and am stuck

I have a nearly clean system.. just installed LAV, cyberlink10, ffdshow and the dts...dll from TMT

but whenever I check in grapphstudio I see the LAV Splitter Cybelink10 for video and for audio ffdshow..

How the hell do I get LAV Audio to be there???

I have no idea at the moment.. If I unregister ffdshow or set the merit to do not use... I have no audio.. nothing

Thanks for the help ...

[SamuriHL]

Uhhh, what player are you trying to set all this up in? Clearly not in PDVD10 itself, but, rather it sounds like you're using the video decoder from it which is fine. But, the player you're trying to use would definitely be "key" information in helping us help you. :)

[RobertinoM]

finally I want it to running in Mediaportal

But before I install it I want to test it in Graphstudio.. and there it takes always ffdshow

I rebooted between the merit changes.. nothing.. I disabled in ffdshow the formats.. and ended up in no audio...

Strange

[SamuriHL]

I really have no idea. I mean, the programs I use for media playback allow me to select the filters I want to use. In graphstudio, I'd simply add the filters I want to build up the graph. Relying on merits is, well, not necessarily the best way. So no, I'm not going to be able to help you with that one. I'm not familiar with mediaportal at all.

[cyberbeing]

nevcairiel, would you add a dialog to LAV Video so the output colorspaces available to LAV Video can be selectively disabled?

[nevcairiel]

nevcairiel, would you add a dialog to LAV Video so the output colorspaces available to LAV Video can be selectively disabled?
That is basically on top of the TODO pile.

[zerowalker]

Thanks for the work, Near Carrier;D!
Haven´t begun use it fully yet, as it stutter with EVR on AVI files on Zoom Player at start on search.

[roytam1]

That is basically on top of the TODO pile.

What about Output format of LAV Audio?
It is still useful to have integer/float selection, or even Output frequency conversion (96kHz -> 48kHz etc.)

[nevcairiel]

What about Output format of LAV Audio?
It is still useful to have integer/float selection, or even Output frequency conversion (96kHz -> 48kHz etc.)
Its not really that important, in comparison. It'll come eventually, but not for the next version. Btw, I dont know if or how i'll be doing resampling.

PS: all posts by me right now are written on my phone, so don't expect much.