LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[Reino]

No problem here;

NSV-file --> LAV Splitter --> FFDShow Video Decoder (VP31)
\-> FFDShow Audio Decoder (MP3)

Never mind. Video streams...I have to read better.

[nevcairiel]

Its not supposed to support streaming.

[nevcairiel]

Ok test build time:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.42-10-gabb9707.zip

@mkanet
Please test CUVID mode with your Soft-Telecined material. Enable CUVID, set to Adaptive deinterlacing, and (hopefully) enjoy.

@Inspector.Gadget / Nevilne:
Please test if your key-frame seeking seems to be working better again

@XadoX
Try if anything changed?

[fastplayer]

Argh! I didn't know that MPC's "Fast seek on keyframe" affects LAV's MKV demuxer too. So I had it disabled...
Now when enabled, seeking doesn't kill my slow 2.4GHz X2 anymore! :)

[Nevilne]

Keyframe seek works better now, yes. Good way to test it was to hold seek key, in 0.42 it would stop on one frame sometimes.
(my keyboard repeat rate is set high though)

[mkanet]

Hi nevcairiel, I can provide as many test streams as you need. I want to thank you so much for considering to look into this. I know that if anyone in this world can solve this problem, it would be you. The hard part was getting you interested :)

It would surely make a lot of people happy who record TV using Windows Media Center, Cablecards, R5000 based cableTV boxes. Most people dont even know why this stuttering is happening.

I would be very grateful for any help you can offer. I wont get my hopes too high, but can't help but hope you might have a "LAV" based solution :)


I think i found a rather crude yet theoretically working solution for playback of those mixed soft-telecined / hard-telecined files with CUVID deinterlacing.

A soft-telecine stream typically looks like this:

rtStart: 0, diff: 0, key: 1, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 333667, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1
rtStart: 834222, diff: 500555, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 0
rtStart: 1167889, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 0
rtStart: 1668333, diff: 500444, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 2002000, diff: 333667, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1
rtStart: 2502556, diff: 500556, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 0
rtStart: 2836222, diff: 333666, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 0
rtStart: 3336667, diff: 500445, key: 0, repeat: 0, interlaced: 1, tff: 1
rtStart: 3670333, diff: 333666, key: 0, repeat: 1, interlaced: 0, tff: 1

The problem:
- Switching the deinterlacer on/off seems to cause performance issues
- The timestamps of soft-telecined material match a 60 fps stream, instead of 24p (not really a "bad" issue as long as the renderer will match to vsync anyway)
- Double-rate deinterlacing of soft-telecined material causes quite odd results (only the "interlaced: 1" frames above get doubled)

My idea:
- Detect soft-telecined (constant repeat 0/1 switching pattern)
- If detected:
--- Force deinterlacing of all frames, BUT, limit it to 25p/30p mode (no frame doubling) - this eliminates all combing, and doesnt require switching between interlaced/progressive
--- Delay frames with the repeat flag by one field, giving proper 24p timestamps (as an alternative, show frames without the repeat flag one field earlier)

The combination of those options would ensure that there is no combing because the full adaptive deinterlacer is being used, in addition, the timestamps should be smoothed out to ensure smooth playback, even with "stupid" renderers.

The only challenge is properly detecting the soft-telecine. Assuming the pattern is always constant, i could just activate it as soon as i find a repeat flag and turn it off again when there are 2-3 frames without a flag, but that will need investigation on different streams.

Thoughts?
Implementation would probably be somewhat simple.
Note: This mostly only applys to CUVID decoding and deinterlacing. Software decoding is another matter entirely, because i cannot control deinterlacing there.

[nevcairiel]

I wont get my hopes too high, but can't help but hope you might have a "LAV" based solution :)

Just try the test version posted above, and see how it works for you.

[Leader]

Found some problems:
1. When you open the Start menu - All Programs - LAV Audio Decoder, the properties of the decoder was called to trim the video (look at screenshot)
2. Is it possible to LAV Audio Decoder automatically included for all audio output selected only the most necessary, as I have, for example, does not support the "32 bit floating point", because of what the decoder does not work. Have long puzzled as to why he could not boot. Thanks in advance.

[dead_screem]

Ok test build time:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.42-10-gabb9707.zip

@mkanet
Please test CUVID mode with your Soft-Telecined material. Enable CUVID, set to Adaptive deinterlacing, and (hopefully) enjoy.

@Inspector.Gadget / Nevilne:
Please test if your key-frame seeking seems to be working better again

@XadoX
Try if anything changed?

works great on my 9800GTX with everything I threw at it.
is something like this possible with YADIF?

Also, Should there be an option to disable this?

[Inspector.Gadget]

Ok test build time:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.42-10-gabb9707.zip

@Inspector.Gadget / Nevilne:
Please test if your key-frame seeking seems to be working better again



Yes, this build exhibits the preferred behavior. Thank you for your tireless work on these filters. :thanks:

[mkanet]

Okay I tested the new decoder with CUVID enabled and adaptive deinterlacing enabled.

1. There are NO MORE INTERLACING ARTIFACTS!!!
2. Video is perfectly smooth except for certain scenes have video stutter. Video stutter seems a little more milder.

Rather than send you long/big videos showing smooth video with random stutter... I decided to narrow down EXACTLY part of the video that stutters on my setup in the previous one minute Dexter clip.

Here's the 14 second video with stutter every time:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P827WH5F

Thanks a million,
MKANET

Ok test build time:

http://files.1f0.de/lavf/LAVFilters-0.42-10-gabb9707.zip

@mkanet
Please test CUVID mode with your Soft-Telecined material. Enable CUVID, set to Adaptive deinterlacing, and (hopefully) enjoy.

@Inspector.Gadget / Nevilne:
Please test if your key-frame seeking seems to be working better again

@XadoX
Try if anything changed?

[mkanet]

The 9800GTX might be in the family of display adapters that can already handle the soft/hard-telecine switching issue (if that's what the probably actually is). Below are the Nvidia cards that are reported not to have have this issue. I have no idea what's unique about them to be more tolerant to these type of encodings.

NVIDIA
GeForce 8500GT 8600 GTS
GeForce 9300
GeForce 9400 (including ION platforms)
GeForce GT 430
GeForce GT 440 (same core as 430)

works great on my 9800GTX with everything I threw at it.
is something like this possible with YADIF?

Also, Should there be an option to disable this?

[XadoX]

...@XadoX
Try if anything changed?

Thx for the fast feedback. At first tests the stuttering seems to be gone. I have to do some more testing to be realy sure.

[nevcairiel]

is something like this possible with YADIF?
Not completely. If you set YADIF to 25p/30p mode, it would be possible to do something similar, however switching YADIF between the two modes on the fly is not as easy as it is for CUVID.

I can run some tests, i guess, but also isn't known to work 100% on telecined material, so artifacts may happen.

Also, Should there be an option to disable this?
Not sure, the code is rather safe, all it really does is force some deinterlacing settings, so the worst thing that can happen is that you won't get 60p output when the stream is improperly flagged as soft telecine.

It relys on constant repeat flags, which means every second frame has to have a repeat flag, or it'll switch out of soft-TC mode again, so there really isn't much that can go terribly wrong.

[clsid]

Can you consider implementing an "load VSFilter" option in the splitter or video decoder?

The problem is that WMP12 often refuses to load VSFilter by itself. The auto-load VSFilter option in Haali splitter works great, but only works for embedded subtitles. External subs won't load when using ffdshow or LAV video as preferred decoder. Oddly enough, they do work when using the crappy MS decoder.

I know WMP sucks, but many people do use it.

Since this problem only affects WMP/MC afaik, the workaround only needs to be applied for those players. Other players are smart enough to do things properly themselves.

[mkanet]

The last link I posted would probably be the best possible example. Whatever nevcairiel did in the last test build of the video filter completely eliminated combing artifacts (which isn't by accident); however, there's still some remaining video judder. I'm presuming the soft-telecine flag is being detected; and "something" is being done, but not quite right.

Ouch, that's nasty! You don't happen to have a sample available like that?

sometimes even switching between the two several times per second

[nevcairiel]

Here's the 14 second video with stutter every time:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P827WH5F


I'm not sure this can be further improved without a full blown IVTC, which i'm not willing to invest in right now.
One thing you can try, change the CUVID deinterlacer to 25p/30p, and see if that helps at all?

[mkanet]

When I enable 25p/30p to occur all the time, the parts that have video judder look exactly the same. It appears the the video is being switched to 25p/30p already when soft-telecine is detected; however, this doesnt seem to completely eliminate the video judder.

Whatever you did helped a lot (which I'm sure isn't coincidence). I will definitely use your test build until the next official release.

Do you know what exactly is the cause for the remaining video judder? Can you see the same thing I am in that short video clip? Could you or someone please be kind enough to tell me how to supplement the correct directshow component to handle the remaining video judder please? Someone mentioned Dscaler IVTC; however, I dont know to supplement that with LAV Video AND still have CUVID for AVC/VC-1. The only other IVTC I know is the partially working experimental build of ffdshow with IVTC.

Anyway, if all else fails, at least I would have gained a new and improved LAV Video filter. I really appreciate all you help nevcairiel, now at least the video is pretty much watchable. :)

I'm not sure this can be further improved without a full blown IVTC, which i'm not willing to invest in right now.
One thing you can try, change the CUVID deinterlacer to 25p/30p, and see if that helps at all?

[madshi]

Someone mentioned Dscaler IVTC; however, I dont know to supplement that with LAV Video AND still have CUVID for AVC/VC-1.
The DScaler IVTC Mod only decodes MPEG2, so giving it a try wouldn't affect AVC/VC-1 decoding at all. Just set DScaler to "preferred" in MPC-HC (if you're using MPC-HC). Which renderer are you using, btw, and which display refresh rate?

[sexus]

hows that dvd support comin along? nevcairiel

p.s: merry christmas and a happy new year to yall in advance xD

[mkanet]

Hi Madshi,
I only use sageTV; which is directshow based. It can use as a video renderers: "EVR", "VMR", and "System Default" (which will most likely NOT work with MadVR). I'm able to define any external DS mpeg2 decoder (like LAV Video) OR use SageTV's builtin mpeg2 decoder along with a dscaler deinterlace filter (all the old ones that used to come with dscaler). I might be able to use a dscaler deinterlace filter that's not part of the old dscaler package.

My display refresh rate is 59.940hz. It can also do 60.000hz. I use 23hz (23.976 or as close as possible to it) for Blu-ray media.

Please see sageTV configuration options in the screenshots below. It looks like it can use all the old school dscaler deinterlace filters; but, not with LAV Video; unless somehow sageTV allows a post-process DS filter to insert itself in the filtergraph that sageTV uses.

EDIT: I just downloaded and installed Dscaler 5 mpeg2 DS filter. I didnt even know there was one! It has builtin IVTC. I can't wait to go home and try it!!!

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/th_sagetv-dscaler.jpg (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/sagetv-dscaler.jpg)

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/th_dscaler-deinterlace-options.jpg (http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h283/mkanet/dscaler-deinterlace-options.jpg)

The DScaler IVTC Mod only decodes MPEG2, so giving it a try wouldn't affect AVC/VC-1 decoding at all. Just set DScaler to "preferred" in MPC-HC (if you're using MPC-HC). Which renderer are you using, btw, and which display refresh rate?

[madshi]

I'm able to define any external DS mpeg2 decoder (like LAV Video) OR use SageTV's builtin mpeg2 decoder along with a dscaler deinterlace filter (all the old ones that used to come with dscaler). I might be able to use a dscaler deinterlace filter that's not part of the old dscaler package.
The DScaler IVTC Mod I was talking about is not a deinterlace filter. It's a modded DScaler MPEG2 decoder with built in IVTC.

My display refresh rate is 59.940hz. It can also do 60.000hz. I use 23hz (23.976 or as close as possible to it) for Blu-ray media.
If you have proper IVTC running then you should set your display to 23Hz for 1080i60 movie content, too.

EDIT: I just downloaded and installed Dscaler 5 mpeg2 DS filter. I didnt even know there was one! It has builtin IVTC. I can't wait to go home and try it!!!
The standard DScaler MPEG2 decoder does not do proper/complete IVTC. Only the DScaler IVTC Mod does. You can find it at AvsForum. I guess we're OT here, though, so I'll stop discussing that here. If you do a search on DScaler IVTC Mod you should find all the help that you need.

[mkanet]

All:
I apologize for bringing this forum thread off topic. I want to thank nevcairiel and madshi for all your help and time. I really means a lot to me.

There is no more stutter!!! Dscaler IVTC mod mpeg2 decoder can handle removing 3:2 pulldown from weird TV movie encodings that have quickly changing framerates; and, restore it properly to 23.976fps framerate.. It also knows what to do for when there's interlaced/progressive Video content.

Dscaler settings:
3. 3:2 playback smoothing= Disabled
4. Inverse Telecine= Enable only if IVTC flags are found
5. Adjust FPS if Any Telecined Film=Set to 23.976/24 FPS

I am using Reclock's VBscript to change my display automatically to 24.000hz when "film" material is detected and fine tunes 23.976fps to original framerate at 24.000fps; and also restores original audio pitch/speed (resampled audio still sounds great). When Video content is detected, Reclock changes the display to 59.940hz/59.940fps

Of course, I still use LAV video for everything else; just not mpeg2.

If you have proper IVTC running then you should set your display to 23Hz for 1080i60 movie content, too.

The standard DScaler MPEG2 decoder does not do proper/complete IVTC. Only the DScaler IVTC Mod does. You can find it at AvsForum. I guess we're OT here, though, so I'll stop discussing that here. If you do a search on DScaler IVTC Mod you should find all the help that you need.

[Pat357]

I'm not sure this can be further improved without a full blown IVTC, which i'm not willing to invest in right now.
One thing you can try, change the CUVID deinterlacer to 25p/30p, and see if that helps at all?

Using the Gabest Mpeg-splitter with lav video seems doesn't show the judder : very smooth playback like this.
Any idea why this is ?

[mark0077]

Hi nev,

Just one tiny issue I notice with the wvc1 cuvid decoder in LAV Video. When seeking, the image becomes corrupt / shows lots of blocky squares briefly.
With ffdshows wvc1 decoder there is no such corruption on seek, and with lav video with cuvid for vc1 disabled there is no such corruption either, only with cuvid vc1 decoder enabled.

Could it be an nvidia issue, or something with the way you're handling something in the cuvid implementation.

I'm on Win 7, using NVidia GTX 295.
It quickly clears itself up but noticible nonetheless. If interested in looking at this at some point, and you need more input from me let me know.

[DragonQ]

Does anyone know what the best colour space output is best when using EVR? I have the LAV Video Decoder setup to output NV12 but I notice some banding when watching TV using EVR in MediaPortal.

[fairchild]

Does anyone know what the best colour space output is best when using EVR? I have the LAV Video Decoder setup to output NV12 but I notice some banding when watching TV using EVR in MediaPortal.

NV12 gives you hardware accelerated (DXVA/2) deinterlacing with EVR on ATI (not sure if on Nvidia you'd use CUVID anyways and it's deinterlacing). RGB32 output you lose that deinterlacing through DXVA/2 with EVR but gain dithering I believe which should reduce banding, also with YADIF software deinterlacing, you can use that, so it's a win win to use RGB32 when using EVR IMO. If I'm missing something, hopefully someone should correct/fill me in.

[DragonQ]

I use CUVID with vector adaptive deinterlacing for everything it supports, I don't think DXVA is even being used. I'll try RGB32 as you suggest and see if it improves the banding. :)

For some reason I need the nVidia Control Panel set to output 0-255, otherwise I get grey blacks - maybe this exacerbates the problem. Strangely, my Xbox 360 needs to be set to "Standard" (16-235) to avoid crushed blacks. No idea why they're different.

[Paladin77]

Just dropped by to say Merry Christmas Nev. Great Job on this nifty filter.

oh and Merry Christmas everyone.

[mark0077]

nev, may I ask what method does LAV Video / Audio use to keep audio / video in sync.

The reason I ask, is that I have many DVDs that I have converted to mkv over the years, and I know the DVDs themselves were badly made in the first place with most video / decoders showing a noticeable audio blip / stutter at some points such as chapter changes.

I am testing with one mkv today and am delighted to see seeking so accurate and fast with the latest lav filters. But lav video / audio still give the frame stutter / jump, and audio blip / buzz at at the same areas as other decoders.
I can actually get rid of the audio blip / buzz sound by disabling LAV Audios a/v sync correction setting but of course things get noticibly out of sync then. I assume its this a/v sync feature of other decoders I have used that also causes the blip / stutter effect.

So my question really is, is it somehow possible to make corrections to a/v desync like this, less noticible, like a way of more slowly bringing a/v back to sync perhaps rather than in one chunk?

[dead_screem]

nev, may I ask what method does LAV Video / Audio use to keep audio / video in sync.

The reason I ask, is that I have many DVDs that I have converted to mkv over the years, and I know the DVDs themselves were badly made in the first place with most video / decoders showing a noticeable audio blip / stutter at some points such as chapter changes.

I am testing with one mkv today and am delighted to see seeking so accurate and fast with the latest lav filters. But lav video / audio still give the frame stutter / jump, and audio blip / buzz at at the same areas as other decoders.
I can actually get rid of the audio blip / buzz sound by disabling LAV Audios a/v sync correction setting but of course things get noticibly out of sync then. I assume its this a/v sync feature of other decoders I have used that also causes the blip / stutter effect.

So my question really is, is it somehow possible to make corrections to a/v desync like this, less noticible, like a way of more slowly bringing a/v back to sync perhaps rather than in one chunk?
he can't fix anything without a sample file first.

[nevcairiel]

he can't fix anything without a sample file first.

There is nothing to fix. If there is a gap or overlap in the timestamps, you will hear it. Personally i rather have one glitch rather then a few smaller glitches spread out over a few seconds.

[DragonQ]

For some reason I need the nVidia Control Panel set to output 0-255, otherwise I get grey blacks - maybe this exacerbates the problem. Strangely, my Xbox 360 needs to be set to "Standard" (16-235) to avoid crushed blacks. No idea why they're different.

OK, I've just tested this by comparing to my PC monitor upstairs. The TV when receiving 16-235 has washed out colours but when receiving 0-255, it has black crush. I wonder if it's to do with the TV's brightness and contract settings? I'm sure I calibrated according to Lagom's LCD test website but maybe it needs adjusting.

[Leader]

Dear nevcairiel, please fix a bug with the withdrawal of a sample "32-bit Floating Point" in Windows XP formats DTS, A_DTS, AC3, A_AC3. There is a lot of noise.

[nevcairiel]

Dear nevcairiel, please fix a bug with the withdrawal of a sample "32-bit Floating Point" in Windows XP formats DTS, A_DTS, AC3, A_AC3. There is a lot of noise.

There is no bug, you just have a crappy audio driver.
Disable float output, and everything is fine.

[Leader]

Thanks for the answer, but it is strange that in ffdshow Audio Decoder 32-bit Float is working properly. So the problem is not my sound card driver.

[Gleb Egorych]

Leader, are you sure ffdshow outputs 32-bit float? To be sure you need to uncheck all output formats except 32-bit float.

[Leader]

Yes, it works exactly the 32-bit float, rest all the samples are turned off. Even the built-in MPC Decoders works fine sample IEEE Float in Windows XP. So I am sure that is the problem LAV Audio Decoder.

[nevcairiel]

Yes, it works exactly the 32-bit float, rest all the samples are turned off. Even the built-in MPC Decoders works fine sample IEEE Float in Windows XP. So I am sure that is the problem LAV Audio Decoder.

32-bit Float output is exactly the same between LAV Audio and MPC-HCs decoder.
The only difference is that MPC-HCs decoder by default downmixes AC3 to stereo, and LAV Audio doesn't. Most XP drivers have issues with 5.1 Float audio, while they can deal with Stereo just fine.

I just changed it that Float is disabled by default when running on XP, so users running a legacy OS stop bothering me. :p

[Pat357]

All:
Dscaler settings:
3. 3:2 playback smoothing= Disabled
4. Inverse Telecine= Enable only if IVTC flags are found
5. Adjust FPS if Any Telecined Film=Set to 23.976/24 FPS
Just a quick question : how did you adjust this settings ?
MPC-HC crashes when trying to access the Dscaler Mpeg decoder settings (well known problem, reason is DEP) and if I change the settings in Graphstudio, they don't seem to retain.
Have you find a way to exclude your player from DEP ?

[dead_screem]

Just a quick question : how did you adjust this settings ?
MPC-HC crashes when trying to access the Dscaler Mpeg decoder settings (well known problem, reason is DEP) and if I change the settings in Graphstudio, they don't seem to retain.
Have you find a way to exclude your player from DEP ?

maybe he wasn't using win 7?

anyway, they are stored in the registry. goto "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\DScaler5\MpegVideo Filter" in regedit and edit what you want. or you could paste the following into a .reg file (edit if you want before hand) then merge to the registry by double clicking.

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\DScaler5\MpegVideo Filter]
"Display Forced Subtitles"=dword:00000001
"3:2 playback smoothing"=dword:00000000
"Inverse Telecine"=dword:00000001
"Change FPS"=dword:00000000
"Deinterlace Mode"=dword:00000000
"Video Delay"=dword:00000000
"Use accurate aspect ratios"=dword:00000000
"DVB Aspect Preferences"=dword:00000000
"Hardcode for PAL with ffdshow"=dword:00000000
"IDCT to Use"=dword:00000002
"Colour space to output"=dword:00000000
"Do Analog Blanking"=dword:00000001
"Force Field 1 first Flag"=dword:00000000

[Leader]

Thank you very much, dear nevcairiel for a change, I'm sorry that bother you, just found the problem and decided to report it, but please do not forget to adjust the settings window LAV Audio Decoder opening in Windows XP, go to Start \ All Programs \ LAV Filters.:cool:

[mindbomb]

So, now that madvr has dxva deinterlacing, would it be possible to implement hardware acceleration using openvideodecode?
or is the api too hard to work with?

also, is this amd specific, or would it work with ivy bridge in the future?

[nevcairiel]

would it be possible to implement hardware acceleration using openvideodecode?
or is the api too hard to work with?

It always was possible, but i have absolutely no interest in it.



also, is this amd specific, or would it work with ivy bridge in the future?
Its an API invented by AMD, what makes you think Intel would support it any time?

[mindbomb]

i was thinking because intel is adding support for opencl, so it may work, but it looks like openvideodecode is specifically for uvd, right?

is it like really hard to work with, since i think the coreavc attempted to add it in their decoder, but they ended up just using dxva instead.

[madshi]

OpenVideoDecode is stupid. It's not any easier than DXVA, it requires the use of OpenCL, for which AMD offers no Direct3D9 interop at the moment, it doesn't support deinterlacing and it's strictly AMD, only. NVidia's CUDA Decoding solution is much better, it's much easier to use than DXVA, it offers CUDA access with Direct3D9 interop and it does support deinterlacing. Furthermore, NVidia is very fast at GPU -> System RAM copy, while AMD is very slow with that. NVidia's solution: All good. AMD's solution: All bad. Sorry, but that's the honest truth.

[sexus]

hows that dvd support comin along? nevcairiel

[fastplayer]

hows that dvd support comin along? nevcairiel
Here's your new browser homepage:
http://code.google.com/p/lavfilters/issues/detail?id=47

[sexus]

i see so i guess he still working on it xD

[SamuriHL]

i see so i guess he still working on it xD

And that's pretty much a safe bet until he comes out and says "it's done". :) You'll not miss it being announced when he's finished it, I'm quite sure. Either it'll be in a special build to try it out, or, it'll be in the release notes for a future version.