LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[NikosD]

i.e. tried Core i7-4770 not enough - stuttering present and with LAV Video Decoder impossible to know what commentator said) can decode all 50fps of only 4K but 4:2:2 h265 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts (563 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/m0s5ztpj3XnUyw Core i3 9100F - Win 10 1909 (18363.693)
DXVA Checker v4.2.1
LAV Filters v0.74.1-32 x64

Decoding mode: (FPS)
42/52/83 CPU usage 89% (average)

Tried MPC-HC with MPC VR and is stuttering like crazy ~ 10fps

Using EVR-CP, it plays fine at 50fps using ~90% CPUhuhn, QBhd and other with powerful processors
Try to play with LAV Video Decoder 8K AV1 HDR 60fps 31Mbps 831MB three and half minutes (namely so long it must be played measured with independent watches):
youtube-dl (https://www.videohelp.com/software/youtube-dl) -f 571 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1VF4DfBPOY - my computer can't even seek through this file (but I'm sure with only I-frame decoding it'll be possible) to see what after night with bright points in a bottom (and I haven't Internet to download with lower resolution), please. What CPU load and how many fps do you see in renderer statistic? Tried using DXVA Checker in Decode Mode and for the first 5% of the clip I had ~08 fps on average using ~98% of my Core i3 9100F, so I just stopped it.One more (and beautiful Yellowstone National Park) 8K AV1 HDR 60fps 23Mbps 705MB 04min04syoutube-dl -f 571 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHUOCxVT5ro Just like the previous 8K AV1 but ~ 11fps on average.
For 8K AV1, let's wait for nVidia Ampere or RDNA2 (?) using HW decoders.

[VictorLS]

NikosD
Thank you very much for your experiments proving my presumes (except 'Using EVR-CP, it plays fine at 50fps using ~90% CPU' - I thought i3 isn't enough, just not weakest i5 - btw what about with madVR?).
For 8K AV1, let's wait for nVidia Ampere or RDNA2 (?) using HW decoders.
I agree, at 2019 I've asked nVIDIA to add AV1 hardware acceleration in their after-TURING (I didn't know it'll be called Ampere) videoprocessor - they've promised to think about ;)
Any news about AV1 by nVIDIA?

[clsid]

Nev, can you make a MinGW GCC 9.3 build?

[huhn]

Intel Core i7-4770 can't play that 4K 4:2:2 h265 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts (563 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/m0s5ztpj3XnUyw smoothly too - it's a pity my friends haven't more powerful processors.
haswell CPU are well know to handle AVX inefficiently.
Because it's offtop here can you give link I can read about?
Btw I set my vertical frequency output of videocard according the top value of Hz in madVR's Ctrl+J and usually haven't problems - usually 1 frame repeat (or drop) every (some) hours.

there is no collection that list these i know about.
smoothmotion is fixing this evne through the OSD still shows it trivial to use.
reclock does fix this and a lot of player have an alternative.
and the advanced fix is custom resolution.

Core i3 9100F - Win 10 1909 (18363.693)
DXVA Checker v4.2.1
LAV Filters v0.74.1-32 x64

Decoding mode: (FPS)
42/52/83 CPU usage 89% (average)
far worse then expected.

NikosD
Thank you very much for your experiments proving my presumes (except 'Using EVR-CP, it plays fine at 50fps using ~90% CPU' - I thought i3 isn't enough, just not weakest i5 - btw what about with madVR?).
the name "i3 "isn't worth any thing anymore it just an i5 comapred to older CPUs now.

[retrue]

Hi, the last automatic build in https://files.1f0.de/lavf/nightly/ doesn't work.
I get a lot of mistakes and it doesn't allow me to install this LAVFilters-0.74.1-34 version.
No problem installing the previous versions.

[nevcairiel]

I'm sorry, but "doesn't work" isnt exactly something I can easily act on. There have been no changes in packaging since the -32 version.

[retrue]

I have downloaded it again and it works.
I guess my last download got corrupted.
Sorry for the bother.

[el Filou]

Edit: is it expected that the nightly builds since 0.74.1-32 are not signed anymore?This is not actually true. CPU load doesn't require as much power, GPU is far worse, and its not like its running at 100%, and the display takes the top anyway.Found some benchmarks of v0.5.0 on Android: https://medium.com/@ewoutterhoeven/av1-is-ready-for-prime-time-part-2-decoding-performance-d3428221313
on the Dua Lipa YouTube test clip in 1080p, a Snapdragon 835 averages ~82 fps when using multi-core decoding. Considering 0.6.0 doesn't improve 8-bit decoding much, and a Snapdragon 865 is at best 2 times more powerful, that would give ~170 fps, so the CPU would still be constantly at 15% load on all cores, and this is the newest hardware.
It's doable, but if you watch any content for a long time it would still impact battery life much more compared to fixed-function decode of HEVC or VP9.
And this is with medium-bitrate 8-bit 1080p. Still not convinced it's worth it, but I'd love to see a battery life benchmark comparison with HEVC/VP9 on a modern device.

[VictorLS]

haswell CPU are well know to handle AVX inefficiently.
I agree but it's much more powerful than mine Athlon(tm) II X3 460 ;)
there is no collection that list these i know about.
I knew all you've mentioned - my way is custom resolution (by nVIDIA's Control Panel) equal or multiple of played file (stream). About "1 frame drop (repeat) every X seconds (minutes, hours)" in madVR's Ctrl+J statistic after ~ minute of playing is well sign all work fine - if many minutes or hours playing is well, if few seconds - something (few CPU and/or GPU power etc) wrong.
far worse then expected
Can you provide your results (and average CPU load) with Ryzen 7 3700X while playing 4K 4:2:2 h265 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts (563 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/m0s5ztpj3XnUyw and 8K AV1 HDR 60fps 31Mbps 831MB 3min30s (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1903584#post1903584) files (and by the way X from madVR in i.e. graphstudionext64 (https://www.videohelp.com/software/GraphStudio) in small window to avoid any postprocessing)?
the name "i3" isn't worth any thing anymore it just an i5 comapred to older CPUs now.
I agree too.

[huhn]

~100 FPS at 56% CPU usage.

i'm not testing AV1 it's to early for this.

(and by the way X from madVR in i.e. graphstudionext64 in small window to avoid any postprocessing)?

no irrelevant.

[VictorLS]

~100 FPS at 56% CPU usage.
Thanks.
i'm not testing AV1 it's to early for this.
When you support nevcairiel in not adding not all frame decoding in LAV Video Decoder I logically presume you're sure as minimum your Ryzen 7 3700X don't need this function for almost all (comparatively often using) files (streams) including 8K AV1 HDR 60fps - after NikosD's experiments (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1903629#post1903629) with such files if you sure your 3700X ~ 6 times faster than Core i3 9100F it worth to try otherwise stop writing not all frame decoding is useless function, please ;)
irrelevant.
So I presume vertical frequency was not 50Hz while you're playing 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts (https://yadi.sk/d/m0s5ztpj3XnUyw) (or you don't play this file to the end without seeking) but in case of 8K AV1 HDR 60fps you don't need to change vertical frequency because 60Hz is standard.

[huhn]

i don't show the video for performance test. i just do a decoding test.

the AV1 decoder is still not fully optimisedyet and it's useless 8k at an eye watering 31 mbit. i just take a different version which will most likely look better to the AV1 encoder has ways to go too.

[NikosD]

@nevcairiel

Hello.
It's been a year since LAV filters v0.74.1 release (19/03/2019)

Maybe it's time for v0.75 ?

They are not all familiar with nightly releases.

Just a thought.

[ryrynz]

Maybe it's time for v0.75 ?


Based on the commits I think it qualifies more as 0.74.2 :P

[NikosD]

When you support nevcairiel in not adding not all frame decoding in LAV Video Decoder I logically presume you're sure as minimum your Ryzen 7 3700X don't need this function for almost all (comparatively often using) files (streams) including 8K AV1 HDR 60fps - after NikosD's experiments (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1903629#post1903629) with such files if you sure your 3700X ~ 6 times faster than Core i3 9100F it worth to try otherwise stop writing not all frame decoding is useless function, please ;) Performance difference between Core i3 9100F and 3700X is heavily dependent on workload.
But on average we can safely support that 3700X is around 3 times faster.
Regarding video decoding and judging by the reported figures of average FPS and CPU usage during HEVC 4K 4:2:2 decoding, I could presume that the first 8K AV1 clip "Omagari Fireworks" could be decoded by 3700X at ~20 fps.

[VictorLS]

But on average we can safely support that 3700X is around 3 times faster...I could presume that the first 8K AV1 clip "Omagari Fireworks" could be decoded by 3700X at ~20 fps.
I thing ~ same but interesting real experiment with 0.74.1.34 (may be it's really faster than previous for AV1 decoding on modern processors) ;)

[NikosD]

I thing ~ same but interesting real experiment with 0.74.1.34 (may be it's really faster than previous for AV1 decoding on modern processors) ;) I have no issue testing my Core i3 9100F using latest 0.74.1-34 and dAV1d v0.6.0, but huhn should do that too.
For now, he is just evading the matter, using as an excuse the immaturity of dAV1d decoder.

[foobar2000]

why it's in beta for a year

[VictorLS]

I have no issue testing my Core i3 9100F using latest 0.74.1-34 and dAV1d v0.6.0
With same 8fps on FireWork and 11fps on Yellowstone (or some more fps)?

[NikosD]

With same 8fps on FireWork and 11fps on Yellowstone (or some more fps)? I haven't done the tests yet, but i really don't think that dAV1d v0.6.0 has any significant difference for 8 bit videos compared to v0.5.1

[VictorLS]

i really don't think that dAV1d v0.6.0 has any significant difference for 8 bit videos compared to v0.5.1
But FireWork and Yellowstone are 10 bit HDR and according to test (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Dav1d-0.6-AV1-Benchmarks) dAV1d v0.6.0 has advantage over previous version.

[NikosD]

But FireWork and Yellowstone are 10 bit HDR and according to test (https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Dav1d-0.6-AV1-Benchmarks) dAV1d v0.6.0 has advantage over previous version. Sorry, my bad, you 're right.

Using LAV filters 0.74.1-34 I get ~08 fps for Yellowstone and ~12 fps for FireWorks for the first 5% of the clips.
I think it's just the opposite than LAV filters 0.74.1-32 :confused:

[VictorLS]

NikosD
Thanks for new experiment with AV1 and 0.74.1-34 - results are unexpected: Fireworks from 08fps has increased to 12fps and I believe that's good progress but Yellowstone from 11fps has decreased to 08fps (
It seems results are unstable from one run to another.

[ryrynz]

Nev just updated the decoder any regressions in performance should be reported to the dav1d team.

[NikosD]

@VictorLS
@ryrynz

Sorry guys, I've just flipped the clips :D

Yellowstone is the "tougher" clip ~08 fps using my Core i3 9100F for both LAV 0.74.1-32 (dAV1d v0.5.1) & LAV 0.74.1-34 (dAV1d v0.6.0)

Fireworks Omagari is ~11 to 12 fps for both too (11 is closer to dAV1d v0.5.1 and 12 is closer to dAV1d 0.6.0)

A new test with an other CPU (Haswell)
HEVC 4K 4:2:2 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts

Core i3 4170 - Win 10 1909 (18363.720)
DXVA Checker v4.2.1
LAV Filters v0.74.1-32 x64

Decoding mode: (FPS)
19/27/45 CPU usage 90% (average)

Tried MPC-HC with MPC VR and looked like a slide show.

Using EVR-CP, it looses sound now and then and stutters at ~30fps using ~90% CPU, dropping a few frames.

8K AV1 Yellowstone using Core i3 4170 gives ~04 fps for both dAV1d 0.5.1 and 0.6.0

Fireworks Omagari is ~05 to 06 fps for both dAV1d versions too.

So no regression and no progression for dAV1d using these clips.

All 8K AV1 tests were done using the first 5% to 10% of the clips, they are just a rough approximation.
(I was really bored waiting to finish decoding at 04 fps or 08 fps or even 12 fps)

An interesting comment would be that Skylake architecture using 4C/4T@4.0GHz is roughly 2x faster than Haswell architecture using 2C/4T@3.7GHz for both HEVC and AV1.

[jkauff]

We're two days away from the one-year anniversary of the last official LAV Filters version. Will there ever be another standalone version, or is nevcariel only going to distribute updates via players (MPC-HC, JRiver Media Center, etc) and nightlies from now on?

[nevcairiel]

You'll just have to wait and see, won't you?
I don't make releases just because it has been a certain time since the last one, but when I feel like there are worthy changes to be released. I do have some things I really want to work on, but time has been a factor over the last year. Been barely working on any audio/video stuff.

For the record, I don't actually include any nightly versions in JRiver Media Center, it uses the latest release. What any other players do is entirely out of my control.

[SamuriHL]

off topic comment: Man I really wish more developers had the same mindset!

[VictorLS]

NikosD
Thanks one more time.

Btw my Fireworks was slideshowing for an 1 hour and 3 minutes long = 63 minutes dividing it on 3,5 minutes long of original file I practically (not in DXVA Checker) have 3 and 1/3 fps with my much older and weaker Athlon(tm) II X3 460 CPU ;)

[jkauff]

You'll just have to wait and see, won't you?
Not complaining, just curious. I remember a comment you made about how end users shouldn't be installing LAV Filters at all. I was wondering if the next major version would only be released to the player devs.

I love what you've done with Blu-ray menus in MC. Most of us are good with the current LAV version anyway.

[tormento]

Does LAV Splitter support idx+rar (archived sub) subtitles as external file?

I tried with an ancient avi and while it worked ok on xbmc, it doesn't on Windows with MPC.

[ericd]

hi to all !!,
that s a long time i didnt came here ,i have a little problem that makes me crazy ,i use lav 74.1 and madvr with mpcbe,i have dts dtshd,truehd in 5.1,BUT i don t know why i can t get the aac(pcm detected by mu amplifier) working in 5.1 because of that i dont have the voices !! lol my amplifier detect only the pm 5.1,in stereo ,i want to get back to 5.1,it always worked ,and i don t know why no more 5.1 since 2 days!!
if you have an idea it will be really nice ,thank you very much...

eric :thanks:

[PCU]

hi guys
is it possible to port lav filters (ffmpeg) extension for microsoft movies & tv?

[LigH]

Which API does that support, Media Foundation?

[el Filou]

Yes.
I know there are MFT to DirectShow wrappers (I think LAV uses this for WMV decoding), but I have never seen it the other way.

[VictorLS]

Even AMD Ryzen 3 3200G with Vega 8 not enough for 4K 4:2:2 h265 50fps 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts (563 MB) https://yadi.sk/d/m0s5ztpj3XnUyw decoding
Win10x64 LTSC build 17763.rs5_release.180914.1434
DXVA Checker v4.2.1
LAV Filters v0.74.1-34x64
Decoding mode:
FPS 27/35/47
CPU 76/92/99
Play mode leads to stuttering audio after 35 seconds (video late from audio from beginning).
EVR-CP in MPC-HC says about 35fps also, but ordinary EVR says wrong ~45fps

8K AV1 HDR 60fps 31Mbps 831MB three and half minutes Fireworks
youtube-dl -f 571 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1VF4DfBPOY
Decoding mode:
FPS 04/08/22
CPU 87/98/100

8K AV1 HDR 60fps 23Mbps 705MB 04min04s Yellowstone National Park
youtube-dl -f 571 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHUOCxVT5ro
Decoding mode:
FPS 00/08/16
CPU 59/95/100

[el Filou]

@VictorLS starting from Ice Lake, Intel media engine supports HEVC 4:2:2 decode : https://github.com/intel/media-driver/blob/master/README.md#hw-media-features
Your best bet is to upgrade in the future to a platform that can do hardware decode of that format (note that I'm not sure that would automatically mean it would work with LAV) rather than hope for I-frame only decode.

[VictorLS]

el Filou
Thanks for information.
I hope someone Ice Lake processor owner will confirm Intel media engine supports HEVC 4:2:2 decode (with low CPU load, of course) on for example 20180428-175510_4K ENC 3 RMAD VS LEG.ts

[PCU]

Yes.
I know there are MFT to DirectShow wrappers (I think LAV uses this for WMV decoding), but I have never seen it the other way.

you can find more info about sdk here:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/apps_windows_10-movies/does-the-windows-10-movies-and-tv-app-have-an-sdk/f29e818e-f3fc-43d6-a650-160cb31b3393

[clsid]

It is very unlikely that there will ever be a Media Foundation version of LAV Filters.

You can find additional free Media Foundation codecs (from Microsoft) in the the Windows 10 store. For example HEVC, VP9, AV1, and MPEG2.

[amichaelt]

you can find more info about sdk here:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/apps_windows_10-movies/does-the-windows-10-movies-and-tv-app-have-an-sdk/f29e818e-f3fc-43d6-a650-160cb31b3393

You can? Because outside of the initial post asking if there was an SDK, the thread is locked and the only reply says to post the question somewhere else. :confused:

[PCU]

we must request sdk & post it on feedback hub app on win 10.
movies & tv slowly gets better each day.

[Klaus1189]

I updated AMD Driver to 20.4.1 for my RX 5700 and when playing this file - https://4kmedia.org/lg-chess-hdr-demo/ I get about 90 dropped frames right at start of playback. I think this was introduced with AMD driver update to 20.4.1
I use MPC-BE v1.5.5 build 5165 with madVR 0.92.17 and LAV Filters 0.74.1-34. If I disable/block external LAV Filters completey in MPC-BE and use its internal filters it is fine.

So I think AMD changed anything related in Driver which is causing this behavior in LAV Filters.

If you need any further info, let me know.

[PCU]

guys i'm not sure if it's the right place to post but is it possible for lav filters's developer to develop an import plug-in for adobe premiere pro? (works on adobe media encoder too)

[clsid]

It is extremely rude to ask that. Why the fuck should he invest his free time in developing something for a commercial product from Adobe? Go complain to Adobe that their software sucks.

[PCU]

they only cares about pro codecs, not all codecs and rare ones like bink video!
adobe like all only thinks about themselves.
i'll pay for the plug-in if he develops it.

[v0lt]

@PCU
I think you should try AviSynth (https://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33) with FFmpegSource (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127037) and PremiereAVSPlugin (http://videoeditorskit.sourceforge.net/).

[PCU]

@PCU
I think you should try AviSynth (https://forum.doom9.org/forumdisplay.php?f=33) with FFmpegSource (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=127037) and PremiereAVSPlugin (http://videoeditorskit.sourceforge.net/).

thank you so much, but that premiere plug-in is very old & outdated. (doesn't work with latest premiere pro cc)
we premiere pro users need something new & great like lav filters for premier pro cc.

[Liandri]

I'd like someone to review a certain file encoded with x265. Or encoder settings.

File: https://mega.nz/file/5qoBFIqS#c_OjQOUTQaBhJQ4Dzy_gb3I8PmRaYgHok4ZEsHHdiiU

The problem: I'm getting very bad fps - 15-20 instead of 24. Changing settings in LAV Video didn't help. Switching to ffmpeg decoder helped.

Here is how it was encoded:
library: x265 3.3+2-dd2464df2f40:[Linux][GCC 9.2.1][64 bit] 10bit
settings: cpuid=1049583 / frame-threads=1 / wpp / no-pmode / no-pme / no-psnr / no-ssim / log-level=2 / input-csp=1 / input-res=1920x1080 / interlace=0 / total-frames=36280 / level-idc=0 / high-tier=1 / uhd-bd=0 / ref=5 / no-allow-non-conformance / no-repeat-headers / annexb / no-aud / no-hrd / info / hash=0 / no-temporal-layers / open-gop / min-keyint=23 / keyint=250 / gop-lookahead=50 / bframes=16 / b-adapt=2 / b-pyramid / bframe-bias=0 / rc-lookahead=250 / lookahead-slices=1 / scenecut=40 / hist-scenecut=0 / radl=0 / no-splice / no-intra-refresh / ctu=64 / min-cu-size=8 / rect / amp / max-tu-size=32 / tu-inter-depth=2 / tu-intra-depth=2 / limit-tu=0 / rdoq-level=2 / dynamic-rd=0.00 / no-ssim-rd / signhide / no-tskip / nr-intra=0 / nr-inter=0 / no-constrained-intra / strong-intra-smoothing / max-merge=5 / limit-refs=2 / no-limit-modes / me=3 / subme=7 / merange=48 / temporal-mvp / no-frame-dup / no-hme / weightp / weightb / no-analyze-src-pics / deblock=1:-1 / no-sao / no-sao-non-deblock / rd=4 / selective-sao=0 / no-early-skip / no-rskip / no-fast-intra / no-tskip-fast / no-cu-lossless / b-intra / no-splitrd-skip / rdpenalty=0 / psy-rd=2.00 / psy-rdoq=2.00 / no-rd-refine / no-lossless / cbqpoffs=-2 / crqpoffs=-2 / rc=crf / crf=15.0 / qcomp=0.72 / qpstep=4 / stats-write=0 / stats-read=0 / ipratio=1.40 / pbratio=1.30 / aq-mode=3 / aq-strength=1.17 / cutree / zone-count=4 / zones: / start-frame=2638 / end-frame=4797 / bitrate-factor=0.800000 / zones: / start-frame=3730 / end-frame=3918 / bitrate-factor=0.990000 / zones: / start-frame=33856 / end-frame=34029 / bitrate-factor=0.550000 / zones: / start-frame=34030 / end-frame=36013 / bitrate-factor=0.900000 / no-strict-cbr / qg-size=32 / no-rc-grain / qpmax=69 / qpmin=0 / no-const-vbv / sar=1 / overscan=0 / videoformat=5 / range=0 / colorprim=1 / transfer=1 / colormatrix=1 / chromaloc=0 / display-window=0 / cll=0,0 / min-luma=0 / max-luma=1023 / log2-max-poc-lsb=8 / vui-timing-info / vui-hrd-info / slices=1 / no-opt-qp-pps / no-opt-ref-list-length-pps / no-multi-pass-opt-rps / scenecut-bias=0.05 / hist-threshold=0.01 / no-opt-cu-delta-qp / no-aq-motion / no-hdr10 / no-hdr10-opt / no-dhdr10-opt / no-idr-recovery-sei / analysis-reuse-level=0 / analysis-save-reuse-level=0 / analysis-load-reuse-level=0 / scale-factor=0 / refine-intra=0 / refine-inter=0 / refine-mv=3 / refine-ctu-distortion=0 / no-limit-sao / ctu-info=0 / no-lowpass-dct / refine-analysis-type=0 / copy-pic=1 / max-ausize-factor=1.0 / no-dynamic-refine / no-single-sei / no-hevc-aq / no-svt / no-field / qp-adaptation-range=1.00 / no-scenecut-aware-qpconformance-window-offsets / right=0 / bottom=0Someone mentioned that bframes=16 could be the problem.

I'd like to know why switching to FFmpeg solves the fps issue, and what can be done with LAV to work better with this case. Hw acceleration is still disabled in both decoders from what I see.

Also, any comments about encoding settings are welcome.

[mzso]

Hi!

Probably a stupid question, but how do I verify if the MVC codec is successfully installed. If there's any visual feedback it's too fast for me to see.

Any way to test if it's working without a 3d screen? (So I can get it working by the time the screen is acquired.)