LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders [Archive] - Page 224

Hera

29th May 2012, 01:10

What does deblocking of H264 have to do with MPEG-4 ALS now?
Let me tell you: Nothing, nothing at all. You just tried to be a smart-ass (again)

The point is, i will never implement any feature that would degrade quality on purpose, for whatever reason there might be.
The biggest problem with that is that people mis-interpet such options and then turn them on - and then come and complain! "But i only turned on skip deblocking when safe, it said it was safe!"

Anyway, your attitude seems to be the narrowminded one. If you pay me, i will gladly investigate problems with your ancient hardware, but since you don't, i'll focus on the 99.9% of all people that have more recent hardware.
In any case, like i said, a sample MPEG4 ALS file i had around used less then 1% CPU on my system (mostly showing up as 0%), i can't say that its using much. Cannot reproduce, case closed. You can go troll elsewhere now :)

Biggest problem is formats that are not picked up by the GPU - crazy video dimensions, 10-bit, etc. Thus these bad formats are at the mercy of the CPU. Now obviously, one can recode such bad encodes to something compatible (to avoid stuttering, heat, etc) - but this takes lots of time and just isn't worth it most of the time.

Options to trade quality for performance are a must, and should be outlined as such. Your current options do not highlight which options are better for performance and which ones are worse. (If possible separate settings for separate resolutions - SD, 720, 1080 4K?)

From using LAV, I can conclude that the only three things missing are performance options (and help), DVD support, and linked MKV support.
LAV works well otherwise with my systems.

I apologize if I don't understand the discussion ATM. :)

wanezhiling

29th May 2012, 01:33

latest build with the improvement below.
http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/lavfilters/LAVFilters-0.50.5-2856720.exe
Hi, do you know other nightly LAV installer builds? Thanks.

ajp_anton

29th May 2012, 01:46

Avoid needless copying of the encoded audio buffer. This can lead to drastic performance increase in some formats (most notably MPEG-4 ALS)
http://xhmikosr.1f0.de/lavfilters/LAVFilters-0.50.5-2856720.exeHaha =).

ryrynz

29th May 2012, 01:56

Hi, do you know other nightly LAV installer builds? Thanks.

Nope not any other installer builds.

kasper93

29th May 2012, 02:10

Hi, do you know other nightly LAV installer builds? Thanks.

I sometimes upload here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pr337z98gka7q2m/JLgkv2KBhe

ryrynz

29th May 2012, 04:46

No worries, I'm interested to know how this affects your CPU usage so please update on the performance difference.

Kurtnoise

29th May 2012, 06:56

I think LAV Audio could use the BASS dll(s), more or less in the same way it already can use Arcsoft's DTS DLL. Of course, the final decision is in Nev's hands, and he might even refuse a patch that he happens to regard as "irrelevant". ;)
Why ? Almost audio formats used by BASS are already supported by libav libraries...:rolleyes:

Too bad the "official" trolls and a certain wannabe-programmer from the "ffdshow world" will keep solemnly ignoring the FACTS.
did you know that you can reencode your als to flac losslessly ? So, go away...

Midzuki

29th May 2012, 07:56

No worries, I'm interested to know how this affects your CPU usage so please update on the performance difference.

Well, the new LAV Audio uses just 1% or 2% more CPU-time than ffplay or Mplayer, so that's OK. But it still "eats" too much paging file (around 60MB), whereas ffplay consumes only 19MB, and the external MPC-HC audio decoder uses 22MB.

wanezhiling

29th May 2012, 09:53

I sometimes upload here https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pr337z98gka7q2m/JLgkv2KBhe

No other words, just thanks thanks :thanks:

Kurtnoise

29th May 2012, 10:19

Grrrreat, yet another incompetent deviloper who has nothing more productive to do than telling me "to go away". :p

That does not compute, sir.
It has been fixed since ages...so, what's your point ? Seems you like to write for nothing.

/you added in my Ignore List.

Reino

29th May 2012, 11:38

DC-Bass Source Mod doesn't support "containered" audio formats (AVI, MPG, MP4 or MKV). You'd need LAV Filters for that. DC-Bass Source Mod (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=164200) may help. It looks to be based on a different decoder than Lav Audio. I am curious. Can Lav split the audio for BASS to decode or is audio required to be in seperate files for Bass source filter?DC-Bass Source Mod is a source filter, hence it will never connect to LAV Splitter as a decoder filter. But why would you want to split a file based on ffmpeg and decode based on BASS anyway?
MP4-files with only audio inside DC-Bass Source Mod does except though. Will update documentation accordingly next time.

Why ? Almost audio formats used by BASS are already supported by libav libraries...:rolleyes:Except for CD Audio, OptimFROG, TAK and Tracker Audio.

06_taro

29th May 2012, 12:12

Not really nightly: http://www.mediafire.com/?bhekka48wl5d9

wanezhiling

29th May 2012, 14:08

Not really nightly: http://www.mediafire.com/?bhekka48wl5d9

Many :thanks:

rack04

29th May 2012, 15:22

I am attempting to use LAVFilters with MPC-HC without registering LAV Splitter, LAV Audio Decoder, and LAV Video Decoder. I add the .ax files to MPC-HC external filters list and set to preferred. MPC-HC immediately crashes when I open a media file. If I remove the LAV Splitter and use the internal MPC-HC splitters it works. Any idea why LAV Splitter cannot be used without registering?

aufkrawall

29th May 2012, 20:54

lordkag

29th May 2012, 22:27

mzso

30th May 2012, 09:14

From using LAV, I can conclude that the only three things missing are performance options (and help), DVD support, and linked MKV support.
LAV works well otherwise with my systems.

I apologize if I don't understand the discussion ATM. :)

I'm on the opinion of nevcairiel. Use a less complex format or less quality for older hardware. There is point in reducing something to levels of an inferior format.

I think a number of other mkv features are missing too. Like recently I tried the crop flag but it didn't do anything. I also remember matroska editions.

pokazene_maslo

30th May 2012, 10:56

Hello.
I would like to request for FFT3DGPU filter integration into LAV. Yes, it's an avisynth plugin, but afaik it's opensource so maybe it wouldn't be so hard just to take the denoising code and place it into LAV without that avisynth API. These days GPUs are powerful enough to process such denoising in realtime.
If this is successful for next step i would like to have complete QTGMC deinterlacing with FFT3DGPU for noise processing :)

nevcairiel

30th May 2012, 11:10

I think a number of other mkv features are missing too. Like recently I tried the crop flag but it didn't do anything.

Cropping should be specified in the video bitstream, its nothing a container should even try to manage, because there are quite some limitations on how thats communicated from splitter to decoder.

Did the splitter just get the video dimensions wrong, or does it want the video to be cropped?
Most of the time, its just wrong :p

shimaflarex

30th May 2012, 12:15

The point is, i will never implement any feature that would degrade quality on purpose, for whatever reason there might be.
The biggest problem with that is that people mis-interpet such options and then turn them on - and then come and complain! "But i only turned on skip deblocking when safe, it said it was safe!"

...than change the label text to "skip deblocking on B-frames (will degrade quality)" or something like that? Or add an "hide advanced options" and keep it enabled by default?
There you go, the "biggest" problem is easily solved like that.

Removing features to keep it noob safe is just plain stupid.
You might as well remove the option to treat progressive frames as interleaved or the DXVA CB option then, as it will avoid some issues like "why is the video so crappy looking" or "why is DXVA so slow on my ATI card?"...

My "ancient" hardware is not able to play high bitrate 10bit video, and I will lose some quality re-encoding, so I'd rather lose it during playback instead...

nevcairiel

30th May 2012, 12:17

Removing features to keep it noob safe is just plain stupid

I did not remove anything, the feature was never there.
The point is that deblocking is a *vital* part of the H264 decoding process, and watching a movie with it disabled will probably look much much worse then one re-encoded to 8-bit and/or a lower resolution.

Anyway, if you think its stupid, you're free to use ffdshow or whatever decoder you prefer.

Have a good day.

shimaflarex

30th May 2012, 12:27

The point is that deblocking is a *vital* part of the H264 decoding process, and watching a movie with it disabled will probably look much much worse then one re-encoded to 8-bit and/or a lower resolution.

>probably
H264 video playback with skipping deblocking "when safe" still look very good, see it on ffdshow if you have time...

Have a good day.

Kinda rude eh?
If you were offended by my post I apologize (probably because I used the word 'stupid'?), it was not my intention :/

golagoda

30th May 2012, 12:36

If anyone can test and share some results. I have a VP2 card (9600M GT) and I'm seeing something weird in latest build 2856720555a9. No Cuvid or DXVA Native (it switches to software - avcodec), just DXVA Copy-back working. But if I have aggressive deinterlacing on, it will double the framerate, no matter the content I play. I tested all three builds posted earlier, same result.
Nev, thanks for all the tremendous (and may I add benevolent) work. It's the least a person can do for getting free and updated software, without imposing selfish-obtrusive requests.
If it's something wrong only on my side, please enlighten!
I'm also using a VP2 card (although I'm not doing any deinterlacing and don't have aggressive deinterlacing enabled) and I too have noticed LAV Video falling back to avcodec on videos that I know are playable using cuvid and DXVA2 (native) as I've done so previously so I tried out some old builds and the regression was introduced somewhere between revisions 5376865797ce and 2856720555a9.

Unfortunately I can't narrow it down any further as I don't have Visual Studio to build LAV myself and those were the two closest builds available at xhmikosr.1f0.de.

I'll try and figure out how to cut videos and get some small samples if needed, they're progressive h.264.

nevcairiel

30th May 2012, 12:44

I too have noticed LAV Video falling back to avcodec on videos that I know are playable using cuvid and DXVA2 (native) as I've done so previously so I tried out some old builds and the regression was introduced somewhere between revisions 5376865797ce and 2856720555a9.

I think i know what broke it, i'll take a look in a few hours.

Edit:
Fixed locally, will commit it soon.

Xaurus

30th May 2012, 16:01

nev,

I can't test it right now but LAV doesn't decode Sorenson video right?

nevcairiel

30th May 2012, 16:04

It should work.
Go try such things before asking :P

Hera

30th May 2012, 16:20

I did not remove anything, the feature was never there.
The point is that deblocking is a *vital* part of the H264 decoding process, and watching a movie with it disabled will probably look much much worse then one re-encoded to 8-bit and/or a lower resolution.

Anyway, if you think its stupid, you're free to use ffdshow or whatever decoder you prefer.

Have a good day.
?

Some sort of deblocking control to alleviate CPU saturation is pretty much a standard feature in all professional-level decoders.

You are showing a high level of immaturity.

nevcairiel

30th May 2012, 16:30

You are showing a high level of immaturity.

Because insulting me and my work will make me bend to your will, right?

Is it just me, or is the troll level higher the last week or so.
I already made my opinion clear, LAV aims at high quality decoding, and options that only reduce quality do not serve that purpose.
If you don't like that, use something else.

While it is possible that i may one day add such options (never rule something out completely, right?), i rather spent the little time i have for this project on actually useful features.
If i have to spend my time arguing with people about their opinions on whats "useful" (to them), i won't get anything done, so i will just not. I'll work on what is fun to work on, and i consider useful/important, and thats that.

You're free to request a feature, if you don't want it to get forgotten you can even enter it on the bug tracker on google code, but you should not expect every feature to be implemented, just because someone asked for it.
You're also free to submit a patch for a feature you feel strongly about (and i don't), if its done properly i will most likely even accept it (and if its not, probably tell you what to change)

In any case, do not expect me to implement those options, even if i do one day, it won't be anytime soon, the TODO list is long enough as it is.

Guest

30th May 2012, 16:59

@Hera

Ad-hominems are not tolerated here. Stop it or expect consequences. Thank you.

Sebastiii

30th May 2012, 17:00

+1 for nev :)

aufkrawall

30th May 2012, 18:02

+1 for nev :)
Yup, he's already quite communicative, some people will always be complaining.
I'm just happy that downmixing and DVD support are most likely relatively high on his todo list. :D
Never used any kind of video filters etc. and I don't see why this should be the job of a decoder.

SamuriHL

30th May 2012, 18:16

I have no complaints. I use LAV religiously and it always works great. And when it doesn't, I whine. :p LOL! No, seriously, Nev has done a great job on this project. Think about where we'd all be without LAV.

ajp_anton

30th May 2012, 21:46

My "ancient" hardware is not able to play high bitrate 10bit video, and I will lose some quality re-encoding, so I'd rather lose it during playback instead...You never really have an argument if your feature is only useful for pirated movies. I think it's rare to have owned the source once but not anymore, so the "just encode into a less demanding format" holds pretty strong. I'm sorry if I'm wrong, just saying.

e-t172

30th May 2012, 22:06

You never really have an argument if your feature is only useful for pirated movies.

And why is that? Such political/ideological considerations should not be part of the decision process, IMO.

Guest

30th May 2012, 22:08

Guys, this discussion is verboten, per rule 17. The moderators will do the moderating. Please keep it to the technical content of the thread. Thank you.

pokazene_maslo

30th May 2012, 22:59

Polcius

30th May 2012, 23:46

Just started using LAV Filters. Noob questions:

What does checking "audio bitstreaming" in the Audio LAV do? (Have a 5.1 speaker system connected via 3 3.5mm jacks)

What's the difference between DXVA copy-back and native?

Thanks

ajp_anton

31st May 2012, 00:42

And why is that? Such political/ideological considerations should not be part of the decision process, IMO.Forum rules, don't blame me.

I guess there is no interest in this.Nev wants this to be a decoder, not a post-processing filter.

Just started using LAV Filters. Noob questions:

What does checking "audio bitstreaming" in the Audio LAV do? (Have a 5.1 speaker system connected via 3 3.5mm jacks)

What's the difference between DXVA copy-back and native?

ThanksBitstreaming is for S/PDIF, HDMI or something like that. The digital stream is sent to your receiver, which handles the decoding. Not useful for you.
DXVA decodes the video in the GPU, and you can choose to either render this directly from GPU memory (native) with a renderer that supports this, or copy it back to main RAM (copy-back). The former is slightly faster and uses less power, the latter allows you to insert post-processing filters and use any renderer, like it was decoded in software.

Polcius

31st May 2012, 01:09

Ok, thank you!

pokazene_maslo

31st May 2012, 10:51

Nev wants this to be a decoder, not a post-processing filter.
i just want to get rid of avisynth (which is pretty much dead and outdated) as encoding frontend

Guest

31st May 2012, 11:59

i just want to get rid of avisynth (which is pretty much dead and outdated) With all due respect, that is nonsense.

pokazene_maslo

31st May 2012, 13:27

Of course it's not possible to substitute every feature of avisynth with lav.
IMHO at least the part that avisynth is dead and outdated is not nonsense.

Virtual_ManPL

31st May 2012, 14:36

your feature is only useful for pirated movies.
implying that all movies on internet are pirated and obtained illegally... :sly:

@ pokazene_maslo -
On official site and SF, yes it's outdated.
But look here Avisynth 2.6 MT (2012.05.16) (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=148782)

dukey

31st May 2012, 15:55

Of course it's not possible to substitute every feature of avisynth with lav.
IMHO at least the part that avisynth is dead and outdated is not nonsense.

You are trying to compare 2 very different things. LAV is a video decoder. Avisynth is a scriping engine that allows you to do basically anything to video.

mandarinka

31st May 2012, 18:12

IMHO at least the part that avisynth is dead and outdated is not nonsense.

With nnedi3, QTGMC, Masktools/MVTools (or yatta...) and now evenwith the 16bit filtering with Dither, what aspect exactly is there in which avisynth isn't light years ahead of alternative solutions?

Not to mention the customization option of filters and the script itself, allowing non-linear filter chain and all...

Skibicki

1st June 2012, 09:42

DC-Bass Source Mod is a source filter, hence it will never connect to LAV Splitter as a decoder filter. But why would you want to split a file based on ffmpeg and decode based on BASS anyway?
MP4-files with only audio inside DC-Bass Source Mod does except though. Will update documentation accordingly next time.

:thanks: Thank you for the information.

Pat357

1st June 2012, 16:32

Nev,

I suspect a regression in Lavaudio when opening a DVD folder via the .IFO file.
MPC-HC consistently crashes (all versions I've tried) if I open the .IFO file from the \VIDEO_TS folder.
What happens is that the video starts playing, but no audio.
(the crash window from MPC pops up)

This is what my event log says :

Log Name: Application
Source: Application Error
Date: 1/06/2012 17:00:47
Event ID: 1000
Task Category: (100)
Level: Error
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: Win7
Description:
Faulting application name: mpc-hc.exe, version: 1.6.3.4948, time stamp: 0x4fc63f56
Faulting module name: LAVAudio.ax, version: 0.50.5.0, time stamp: 0x4fc67cec
Exception code: 0xc0000005
Fault offset: 0x00007873
Faulting process id: 0xbdc
Faulting application start time: 0x01cd400751fe7ff5
Faulting application path: K:\programs\MPC-Homecinema.1.6.2.4802\x86\mpc-hc.exe
Faulting module path: k:\programs\LAV Filters-0.50\x86\LAVAudio.ax

After rolling back to the original LAV 0.50.5, the crashes are gone.
Could you in mean time try it yourself (open .IFO file)
I'm aware DVD playback is not yet supported, but Lavaudio used to work well in this situation.
Thanks in advance !

PS
Something I forgot : if I block lavaudio, there are no crashes.
Reading the vobs 1 by 1 using Lavvideo/Lavaudio/Lavsplitter is OK, no crashes.

All tests are done with non-encrypted dvd's on my HD.

added 02-06-2012
I tested build a73f6321f4f7 (most recent from git) and the 2 builds before : these are all affected.
I'll try to figure out between which builds the regression was introduced.

CiNcH

1st June 2012, 20:23

It is impressive how far LAV has come in such a short period of time!

I have little problem though. I am using LAV Video Decoder with DVBViewer in a push graph (live source). Problem is that when using 'ffdshow Audio Decoder', audio and video are not perfectly in sync most of the time (tried several German and Austrian HD broadcasts). When using LAV Audio, everything seems to be ok. I am missing a mixer there though which is why I use ffdshow. I could not yet reproduce it with a recorded file (pull graph). I may try a longer recording and check how it plays out over a longer period of time.

CyberLink Video Decoder + ffdshow Audio Decoder are in perfect sync und a push scenario.

Any idea?