LAV Filters - DirectShow Media Splitter and Decoders

[SamuriHL]

I'll let you know in two weeks. :p
SNB can already mostly do it, should be just fine with IVB.

BAH! We should be able to start ordering them a week from today. :D I'm just waiting to push the button to order it as I'm ready.

[nevcairiel]

BAH! We should be able to start ordering them a week from today. :D I'm just waiting to push the button to order it as I'm ready.

Isn't the 29th still the day?
I found a shop that claims to have inventory, wonder if i dare to try.... :p Price is somewhat high, though.

[chros]

For QS decoder to work you'll need:
H6x/Z68/Z75/Z77 chipset with a physical on board video connection (some Z68 don't have one). All SandyBridge based laptops should be fine as long as the Intel GPU is enabled (probably 99% of the laptops). P67 and X79 chipsets are not supported.

All SandyBridge CPUs support video acceleration with the exception of the extreme edition parts (SandyBridge-E) which do not have a GPU (all use the X79 chipset). Dual/Quad socket server parts do not have a GPU either. Single socket servers may or may not have a GPU depending on the model and OEM.
IvyBridge CPUs should work fine as long as they have a GPU enabled.
An enabled GPU can be seen in the device manager under display adapters. You may need to enabled the Intel GPU in BIOS in case you also have a discrete GPU.
After spending som time reading the wiki-s (thanks wanezhiling) and your wonderful posts, I try to summarize them (if it's everything clear to me):

- CPU has the GPU too (in certain models), and not like in old days when it was as a single chip on the mainboard
- the mainboard chipset must support it
- bios must support it, too
- an another dedicated VGA card (like nvidia) is a must or just optional?

(Sorry, as it seems my knowledge is few years back from now ... :) )

I'll let you know in two weeks.

Hardly waiting for the test results ... :)

[SamuriHL]

Isn't the 29th still the day?
I found a shop that claims to have inventory, wonder if i dare to try.... :p Price is somewhat high, though.

Apparently Intel moved it up a week to the 23. So, we'll see.

[nevcairiel]

Apparently Intel moved it up a week to the 23. So, we'll see.

I hope the new IVB based Ultrabooks come out soon too then, i want an UX31A. :d

[SamuriHL]

After spending som time reading the wiki-s (thanks wanezhiling) and your wonderful posts, I try to summarize them (if it's everything clear to me):

- CPU has the GPU too (in certain models), and not like in old days when it was as a single chip on the mainboard
- the mainboard chipset must support it
- bios must support it, too
- an another dedicated VGA card (like nvidia) is a must or just optional?

(Sorry, as it seems my knowledge is few years back from now ... :) )


This is somewhat correct. The chipset you choose needs to support it yes. If the chipset support it, it'll have an HDMI connection on it so no discreet card is necessary. The IVB stuff is pretty wild. My Z77 board can switch between the discreet and IVB GPU's. Kinda like how a notebook does it. Sort of.

[SamuriHL]

I hope the new IVB based Ultrabooks come out soon too then, i want an UX31A. :d

That's why they pushed it up to the 23rd. Those will come fairly soon. The rest will be late May/early June. This is the latest I read. We'll see how accurate that is. :)

[DragonQ]

Just video or LiveTV too? No problems with video here (normally no deinterlacing is needed because 99% of the material is progressive).

LiveTV could be a problem (at least in my case) if the bitrate exceeds 15-16 mbit/s. Deinterlacing and high bitrates seems to be too much.

For testing I put in a 5570, and everything was fine...
Live TV and video. However, it'd probably be paired with a GT 430 so if yours was fine with a 5570, then I guess that combination would be fine too.

Basically I'm thinking of swapping my file server CPU (AMD E-350) with my HTPC CPU (Celeron G530) because I want my server to eventually run MediaPortal TV-Server and be able to stream over the internet, which the E-350 would struggle with since it involves on-the-fly video conversion. However, if the E-350 paired with a GT 430 can playback video perfectly then that's fine for an HTPC client.

[SamuriHL]

Nev,

http://socialbarrel.com/ivy-bridge-release-date-early-release-seen-for-intels-powerful-ivy-bridge-processors/36043/

So it looks like the ultrabooks are in May if I read this right.

[nevcairiel]

Nev,

http://socialbarrel.com/ivy-bridge-release-date-early-release-seen-for-intels-powerful-ivy-bridge-processors/36043/

So it looks like the ultrabooks are in May if I read this right.

If its available before June, i'll be happy.

[SamuriHL]

If its available before June, i'll be happy.

It definitely looks like it should be. I REALLY want the 3770k to come out next week. I'm itching to get that thing built now that I have the mobo and ram sitting here. :)

[Andy o]

I think NV optimus is better than whatever AMD offers, right? I haven't tried it, but I read at Anandtech that with AMD you still need manufacturer-specific drivers. Imma plannin on a IVB laptop w/ GTX660m. Or maybe I'll wait for Haswell.

On the desktop/HTPC I can't leave AMD until there's no silent stream bug. Kepler is looking great, but NV has all these problems with madVR.

[SamuriHL]

Not if you configure it right. ;) I'm running my GTS 450 on my i5 with no problems in madVR. But it requires some pretty specific settings in madVR. I run 23.976 content on that machine to my Samsung panel. Works great.

[Andy o]

I still have my GTX460 and although I could tweak it so it didn't give me glitches for most content, I could get other artifacts for some content if I enabled one of those tweaks. I remember I had to disable separate device presentation or one of those, for certain content, to not get some artifacts, but also I had to enable to not get glitches. It's too finicky. But in any case, silent stream bug=deal breaker for me. Does Intel have it?

[SamuriHL]

Don't know. I haven't used the SNB GPU on my i5.

[nevcairiel]

People really over exaggerate the silent stream bug (also, its a sucky name).
I've had a HTPC with NVIDIA for a while, and it never bothered me. So what, first half second of audio is missing when you start playback. Deal breaker? You're crazy.

[DragonQ]

I have a program called "AVR Audio Switch Fix" which is meant to be for the "silent stream bug" but I've never needed it. What does it affect exactly?

[SamuriHL]

It depends on the receiver. Some receivers *SUCK* at HDMI handshaking and are 3+ seconds at reconnecting. I know, I know, get a new receiver. :D

[nevcairiel]

It depends on the receiver. Some receivers *SUCK* at HDMI handshaking and are 3+ seconds at reconnecting. I know, I know, get a new receiver. :D

It actually seems worse in newer receivers. More funny features that no-one uses but screw stuff like this up. :p

Anyway, Intel supposedly doesn't have the issue.
If all else fails, can use NVIDIA for video, connect directly to TV, and connect Intel GPU to AVR for Audio. :)
Apparently this is also required to get proper untouched colors on some TVs.

[SamuriHL]

OHHHH, that's a thought! I should do that in my bedroom cause I get issues sending video through my AVR in there. HMMMMMM.

[Andy o]

People really over exaggerate the silent stream bug (also, its a sucky name).
I've had a HTPC with NVIDIA for a while, and it never bothered me. So what, first half second of audio is missing when you start playback. Deal breaker? You're crazy.

Yeah, as Samuri said. My receiver takes a full 2 seconds after pause or skipping. It gets annoying fast, and even worse, with TV shows with cold openings, there is no way to hear that first 2 seconds' audio (it has happened in actuality to me) if you're using WASAPI exclusive. That's also one reason why I stopped using bitstreaming, cause my AMD card started delaying audio too when bitstreaming.

[Sebastiii]

hi,
I have do a post few week/month ago :)
I have do a tricky thing lol -->> http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1498683&postcount=2564
Seb.

[Sebastiii]

Now the only think that annoyed me, is that i must after turn off AVR/SANYO going to set video fullscreen in place of Auto.
I didn't find wher i can fix it for forever !!!
;)

[tetsuo55]

It actually seems worse in newer receivers. More funny features that no-one uses but screw stuff like this up. :p

Anyway, Intel supposedly doesn't have the issue.
If all else fails, can use NVIDIA for video, connect directly to TV, and connect Intel GPU to AVR for Audio. :)
Apparently this is also required to get proper untouched colors on some TVs.My older intel device sometimes loses the audio connection completely, a simple restart of the video player fixes it though. (this usually occurs when weird stuff happens, like the system turning off the monitor as a screensaver.

[Gary.M]

I currently have a GT430 DDR3 card, its glitchy with Lav and MadVR. Looking maybe to move to either GTX 550Ti DDR5, or Sapphire HD7750 DDR5. Which is the better choice? Is the Chroma scaling issue with AMD something to consider?

[mindbomb]

you should actually be fine with the 430

[egur]

Hi Eric,
Does an Ivy Bridge i5 desktop CPU with HD4000 GPU provide enough power to work with madVR toughest scaling settings? I mean playback of untouched blu-ray video files with HD audio per HDMI.
Thanks
Pluto
I don't know - probably borderline. Fast DDR3 will help.
You should try EVR which have a very sharp scaler on SandyBridge/IvyBridge.

After spending som time reading the wiki-s (thanks wanezhiling) and your wonderful posts, I try to summarize them (if it's everything clear to me):

- CPU has the GPU too (in certain models), and not like in old days when it was as a single chip on the mainboard
- the mainboard chipset must support it
- bios must support it, too
- an another dedicated VGA card (like nvidia) is a must or just optional?

Correct. A discrete GPU (either card or soldered on board in laptops) is not needed. Actually setup is easier without one :)

[nevcairiel]

You should try EVR which have a very sharp scaler on SandyBridge/IvyBridge

But that only works with vanilla EVR, not even EVR-CP, which is seriously lacking features.
Anyway, like i said before, even SNB can run with madVR if you have fast RAM. IVB should be easy. Stick to 3-tap filters to be safe. To be honest, the 4 tap variants don't look better anyway. A slight improvement in sharpness for much higher ringing, so meh.

[pankov]

Nev,
I'd like to report a problem with LAV Audio decoder.
With the following file
http://www.mediafire.com/?1rra9be1xeb67l1
around 8 seconds from the start and many times with live streams in DVBViewer when there is a drop out in the signal the audio volume drops down a few dB and never recovers.
It's a long time issue but I wasn't able to record it till recently and now that I have a file showing it I'm reporting it to you.
when I use ffdshow or other ac3 decoder there is no such issue.
Am I doing something wrong or there is actually a bug in LAV?

[nevcairiel]

Nev,
I'd like to report a problem with LAV Audio decoder.
With the following file
http://www.mediafire.com/?1rra9be1xeb67l1
around 8 seconds from the start and many times with live streams in DVBViewer when there is a drop out in the signal the audio volume drops down a few dB and never recovers.
It's a long time issue but I wasn't able to record it till recently and now that I have a file showing it I'm reporting it to you.
when I use ffdshow or other ac3 decoder there is no such issue.
Am I doing something wrong or there is actually a bug in LAV?

You mean the drop from around 0:07 to 0:10?
I dont get a volume difference, and really, its also impossible. Volume is not controlled by the decoder.
Most likely its the audio renderer doing something odd. Maybe its applying some sort of normalization or clipping protection, and during the drop there is a corrupted audio packet with a loud noise in it that causes it to trigger, and decrease volume of the whole stream.

You can try to switch it to 16-bit integer output or something like that, in that mode LAV Audio will apply clipping itself, while in float audio it can in theory go above 100%.
Most other decoders don't default to float audio, which would hide this problem.

[starla]

takes a full 2 seconds after pause or skipping. It gets annoying fast, and even worse, with TV shows with cold openings

In case pause or skipping triggers the silent stream bug then the blame goes for the audio renderer. Audio renderer should keep the stream open and renderer silence when the graph is active and it wont receive anything to render.

Sounds like the audio renderer you are using is closing down the device during pause / seek.

[wanezhiling]

You should try EVR which have a very sharp scaler on SandyBridge/IvyBridge.


Eric, I saw you metioned that vanilla EVR was the best choice on Intel GPUs for several times, would you like to explain the reason why EVR is better then EVR-CP or madVR on Intel GPUs? Thanks.:)

[nevcairiel]

Eric, I saw you metioned that vanilla EVR was the best choice on Intel GPUs for several times, would you like to explain the reason why EVR is better then EVR-CP or madVR on Intel GPUs? Thanks.:)

Vanilla EVR is the only renderer that can use SNBs integrated hardware scaler.
Its algorithm is OK, however last i heard its sadly limited to scaling NV12, and cannot for example scale a 16-bit surface.

madVR can achieve the same results in quality, however it requires more processing power because it does it in shaders.

[jmone]

I've gone stock Intel GPU (i72600K) on the HTPC and pulled my nvidia 550TI out. The "silent stream" bug never annoyed me (slight delay on the Yami AVR). The bigger issue for me was the EDID persistance issue that the Intel GPU still has so I had to add back in my DVI Detective Plus or I'd find that I could lose the default audio config when switching inputs on the AVR or it would crash MC17 if I was playing media when switching the AVR as the audio device would "disapear".

[jmone]

...also with the Intel GPU I find I had to use scaling algorithms like Mitchell-Netravali over multi tap ones else I'd get dropped frames as the render queue could not keep up on some high frame rate content. Apart from that I'm very happy with the Intel GPU!

[nevcairiel]

SNB isnt quite fast enough for 50 or 60 fps content, up to 30 should be fine, though.
IVB should give the required boost. I'll be testing this in a week or so, i hope. :)

[SamuriHL]

SNB isnt quite fast enough for 50 or 60 fps content, up to 30 should be fine, though.
IVB should give the required boost. I'll be testing this in a week or so, i hope. :)

I can't wait. I wanna see what ivb can do for me with video encoding tasks. :)

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk 2

[jmone]

SNB isnt quite fast enough for 50 or 60 fps content, up to 30 should be fine, though.
IVB should give the required boost. I'll be testing this in a week or so, i hope. :)

Yup, SNB is fast enough for both 50 and 60fps content but not with a tap based scaler. It works perfectly with Mitchell-Netravali for example.

It will be interesting to see how IVB goes!

Edit: esp with EDID persistance....

[wanezhiling]

Vanilla EVR is the only renderer that can use SNBs integrated hardware scaler.
Its algorithm is OK, however last i heard its sadly limited to scaling NV12, and cannot for example scale a 16-bit surface.

madVR can achieve the same results in quality, however it requires more processing power because it does it in shaders.

Thanks nev.

Here's a sample:http://www.mediafire.com/?bwclvquke06g4ls

LAV SW mode(NV12) + EVR on E3 1235's GPU:http://i.imgur.com/FoaDQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/hpdJJ.png
:(aliasing..

http://i.imgur.com/Q5gGJ.png
GT520 has no aliasing.

[ashlar42]

It depends on the receiver. Some receivers *SUCK* at HDMI handshaking and are 3+ seconds at reconnecting. I know, I know, get a new receiver. :DI moved from an Onkyo 3007 to a Yamaha Aventage 3010 and HDMI handshaking got much better, plus no relay switching noise. That made the "silent stream bug" much more bearable.

[egur]

Vanilla EVR is the only renderer that can use SNBs integrated hardware scaler.
Its algorithm is OK, however last i heard its sadly limited to scaling NV12, and cannot for example scale a 16-bit surface.


Media SDK is limited to NV12. EVR uses D3D or DDI which is less limited.
The HW precision is more than 8 bit. It can output any color compression (4:4:4,4:2:2,4:2:0).

While I'm 100% supporting MadVR - it's great, if you want the sharpest images while using very little processing power you should use EVR as the bulk of the work is done in ASIC (fixed function).

[mindbomb]

does the scaling have to be done in the renderer?

could you use the hardware scaler in the quicksync decoder?
Just have users specify their display resolution.

also, i wonder if this could be done in the cuvid decoder as well.

[JustinChase]

I have a completely new HTPC, right now still in pieces, all components in their nice little boxes. I've been pondering between the 3570k or the 3770(k) though, guess final decision will be made on the price.
No GPU for the time being, see how the IVB GPU does.

Do you mind sharing which motherboard you chose? I'm planning on upgrading, and I trust your research/decision on this.

Thanks for all you do!

[nevcairiel]

I got a ASUS P8Z77-M PRO. ASUS has always served me well with motherboards, and it has all the features i need (and i needed a mATX). Don't think there really is that much of a difference anyway between the big vendors.

[SamuriHL]

Do you mind sharing which motherboard you chose? I'm planning on upgrading, and I trust your research/decision on this.

Thanks for all you do!

I personally went a little overboard. :D I got the ASUS P8Z77-V Deluxe board. I figured at this point there's no sense getting anything but a Z77 board (or other new 77 based boards). Not sure what Nev got. But the older Sandy Bridge boards will work if you have one already.

[SamuriHL]

I got a ASUS P8Z77-M PRO. ASUS has always served me well with motherboards, and it has all the features i need. Don't think there really is that much of a difference anyway between the big vendors.

Ninja'd me while I was posting. :D Yea, that's another very nice board. I looked at it, as well, but, opted for the Deluxe.

[nevcairiel]

My case for the new HTPC isn't exactly full ATX compatible. :)

[hoborg]

Hi.
Should be DTS in WAV passthrough working or not?

[SamuriHL]

Fair enough. My bedroom machine isn't full ATX, either. That board will have no compromises, though, from what I can see. I require dual gigabit which is why I opted for the deluxe.

[nevcairiel]

Hi.
Should be DTS in WAV passthrough working or not?
Works for me. Note that some receivers seem to have issues with 44.100 DTS for odd reasons.